What did Jesus die to save us from?

[St. SteVen]

How is it we interpret God's wrath or his severity through an angry paradigm.

That's a great question.
If God is love (and He is) then His wrath should ALSO be love.
How is that?
What sort of wrath would ALSO be love?

This idea that God's actions are in two extremes is very disturbing.
The god that the church has created is a monster.
If He was human, we would send Him to anger management therapy.

This view CANNOT be correct.

[

 

[St. SteVen]

What is the deal ??

Do you believe that God's wrath is also His love?
Or is it the opposite of His love?
Is God's wrath a demonstration of love, or a demonstration of hatred?

[

 

[Brakelite]

The phrase "two-faced" is an observation about the common claim about God's "love and wrath".

God's love has been expressed in His justice no less than in His mercy. Justice is the foundation of His throne, and the fruit of His love. It had been Satan's purpose to divorce mercy from truth and justice. He sought to prove that the righteousness of God's law is an enemy to peace. But Christ shows that in God's plan they are indissolubly joined together; the one cannot exist without the other.
“1 LORD, thou hast been favourable unto thy land: thou hast brought back the captivity of Jacob. 2 Thou hast forgiven the iniquity of thy people, thou hast covered all their sin. Selah. 3 Thou hast taken away all thy wrath: thou hast turned thyself from the fierceness of thine anger. 4 Turn us, O God of our salvation, and cause thine anger toward us to cease. 5 Wilt thou be angry with us for ever? wilt thou draw out thine anger to all generations? 6 Wilt thou not revive us again: that thy people may rejoice in thee? 7 Shew us thy mercy, O LORD, and grant us thy salvation. 8 I will hear what God the LORD will speak: for he will speak peace unto his people, and to his saints: but let them not turn again to folly. 9 Surely his salvation is nigh them that fear him; that glory may dwell in our land. 10 Mercy and truth are met together; righteousness and peace have kissed each other. ”
Psalms 85:1-10 KJV

Unfeigned Bible

Unfeigned Bible

www.unfeignedbible.app

 

[St. SteVen]

God's love has been expressed in His justice no less than in His mercy. Justice is the foundation of His throne, and the fruit of His love.

How is it that justice is love? Please elaborate. Thanks.

It had been Satan's purpose to divorce mercy from truth and justice. He sought to prove that the righteousness of God's law is an enemy to peace. But Christ shows that in God's plan they are indissolubly joined together; the one cannot exist without the other.

But we are no longer under the law since Christ came.

Galatians 3:23-25 NIV
Before the coming of this faith,[a] we were held in custody under the law,
locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed.
24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith.
25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

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[Behold]

I s'pose God was really wrathful when he brought gifts of clothing to Adam and Eve in the garden!

AT the time that Adam ate the apple.........(rebelled).....there was no "Moses Law"..

So, Adam existed in "where there is no LAW....there is no SIN".. = No Law to define it., "yet sin was in the world".

This means that the word of God that said..>>"do not eat".. was the Law that Adam transgressed, while still existing in "where there is no LAW, there is no Transgression".

So, when God gave Adam and Eve the covering.......this was the sacrifice of blood that covered their sin.
The animals had to die = blood sacrifice.

See, all things with God's covenants are blood based, because "life is in the Blood".

This is why Jesus shed His blood, to create the BLOOD Atonement, that is the "new Covenant".

 

[Behold]

Jesus taught us to love our enemies. What should He do with His own

He died for them.

However, this sacrifical death is an OFFER....and they have to decide to accept it "by faith".

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
Jesus taught us to love our enemies. What should He do with His own

He died for them.

True.

However, this sacrifical death is an OFFER....and they have to decide to accept it "by faith".

False.

1 John 2:2 NIV
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins,
and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

Colossians 1:19-20
For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him,
20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things,
whether things on earth or things in heaven,
by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

[

 

[Behold]

1 John 2:2 NIV
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins,
and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

Jesus is the eternal blood sacrifice that God offeres to the world.

This is.. "Jesus came to save SINNERS"\
This is the "new Covenant"......

John 14:6

So, How does God offer JESUS to the world of sinners ?????........and that is where your satanic doctrine, that is "universalism" denies the only WAY.. the True MEANS, that God offers, Jesus to the world. @St. SteVen

See, God offers Jesus "by faith", to "all (sinners) who will believe".

This is known as "Justification BY faith"....while you are ALIVE and Breathing, in your body.

And you deny this, as your Universalism CULT......teaches that no faith in Christ is required ...before you DIE......and in fact, sinners are "justified by faith", in Christ, or they die and go to Hell because they never gave God their faith while they were alive, = they were never born again.
And you seem to believe that you can be born again in Hell, where there is no Cross, no Jesus.., or you believe there is no Hell, and that is what you tell unsaved, hell bound, Christ rejecing people.
You lie to them on THIS Forum, and IN REAL LIFE, as i know you are not just trying to decieve people here.... @St. SteVen

Your False Gospel, is......>"no need for faith"........"no need to believe in Jesus".. "no need to be born again"..... "die and do it later"..... @St. SteVen
So, that makes you not just a deceiver, but a willing tool of the Devil, because you are are willingly teaching UNBELIEVERS....who have no faith in Christ..........that they dont have to do anything but just keep on going the way they are going and die this way..........no need to be born again now ......no need to give God any Faith in Christ, and it'll be just find after you die.

You'll find out differently, if not now...then later.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Do you believe that God's wrath is also His love?
Or is it the opposite of His love?
Is God's wrath a demonstration of love, or a demonstration of hatred?

[

OK I will give you my best take on this.

First off I believe that when it comes to the Godhead there is an element of mystery and we need to be comfortable with that. Many demand rationality rather than seeking revelation and being comfortable with not knowing, yet the most basic temptation was to know and that precipitated the fall.

Second I take the whole of scripture into account and don't support one theology save to say that I agree with the Nicene creed as I find no reason to challenge it from scripture.

Now we know that God is Love so that is settled.

How then is wrath a thing at all?

Going back to Eden we see that God has set up the universe with immutable laws and put in place consequences for violations.
The laws were crafted to protect the living and maximise their blessing. Crossing the lines of obedience resulted in loosing blessing and the peace and joy that came when in fellowship with the Godhead. Rejecting God's laws is a rejection of Love.

Now we see later in Deuteronomy that Law is given with both blessings and curses.

Who however brings the curses ?

We see in Job that this was met by Satan himself. You might say that Job was a righteous man - yet He was required by God to repent.

Likewase when the Law was established it was Ministered by angels and not God Himself - Angels are imperfect creatures and Satan is the worst. His destructive and murderous nature bought the Law to be a curse. So the consequences of breaking the Law was sufferring and worse still the human supervision of the Law was also under a demonic cloud.

So where is all this headed - rejection of Love is to welcome Godlessness.

In life we accept or reject God and He honours our choice even eternally. Those who demand to be separated from Gods Love have their place together and the wrath that is met even in eternity, is the ultimate expression of Godlessness, hatred, etc. and this is what they suffer by choice.

Please understand that my theology is in progress and I offer this thesis in humility - maybe I will be corrected by the Spirit through the readers - I hope this offerring is somewhat more constructive than the banter that so often prevails on this forum.

Those who struggle with God's wrath and His Love might appreciate that His Holy nature and justice must deal with sin - so without Jesus we are toast.

 

[LittleTuneAlright]

Interesting point. Thanks.
What was the curse of the law?

[

It's like starting a new job and having to go through hundreds of pages of policy which takes a full day and your head is spinning with too much information and you just can't remember it all afterwards...BUT...
If one has the things listed here; both for yourself and others, one has cracked it...I'm still a little tune in progress
What do you think?

 

[St. SteVen]

It's like starting a new job and having to go through hundreds of pages of policy which takes a full day and your head is spinning with too much information and you just can't remember it all afterwards...BUT...
If one has the things listed here; both for yourself and others, one has cracked it...I'm still a little tune in progress
What do you think?
View attachment 62238

Reminded me of these two contradictory scriptures.

1 John 5:3 NIV
In fact, this is love for God: to keep his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,

Acts 15:10 NIV
Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear?

[

 

[St. SteVen]

It's like starting a new job and having to go through hundreds of pages of policy which takes a full day and your head is spinning with too much information and you just can't remember it all afterwards...BUT...
If one has the things listed here; both for yourself and others, one has cracked it...I'm still a little tune in progress
What do you think?

But I agree that allowing the fruit of the Spirit to ripen in your life puts you in the right place.

[

 

[LittleTuneAlright]

Reminded me of these two contradictory scriptures.

1 John 5:3 NIV
In fact, this is love for God: to keep his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,

Acts 15:10 NIV
Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear?

[

Well at least you made sense of it somehow lol
Thats what I like to see

 

[Carl Emerson]

Reminded me of these two contradictory scriptures.

1 John 5:3 NIV
In fact, this is love for God: to keep his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,

Acts 15:10 NIV
Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear?

[

In the New Covenannt we walk in the Spirit subject to His indwelling voice - this is not a burden.

In the old covenant the yoke of the Law was a burden, mediated by imperfect angels external and impersonal - this was burdensome.

Those Truely born again know what is sin without being told.

 

[quietthinker]

That's a great question.
If God is love (and He is) then His wrath should ALSO be love.
How is that?
What sort of wrath would ALSO be love?

This idea that God's actions are in two extremes is very disturbing.
The god that the church has created is a monster.
If He was human, we would send Him to anger management therapy.

This view CANNOT be correct.

[

Has anyone bothered to look at Romans 1:18-32...and hear it? From the posts submitted I doubt it.
Romans 1: 18-32 opens a way of understanding God's wrath that cuts clean across the angry paradigm traditionally used.

 

[quietthinker]

AT the time that Adam ate the apple.........(rebelled).....there was no "Moses Law"..

So, Adam existed in "where there is no LAW....there is no SIN".. = No Law to define it., "yet sin was in the world".

This means that the word of God that said..>>"do not eat".. was the Law that Adam transgressed, while still existing in "where there is no LAW, there is no Transgression".

So, when God gave Adam and Eve the covering.......this was the sacrifice of blood that covered their sin.
The animals had to die = blood sacrifice.

See, all things with God's covenants are blood based, because "life is in the Blood".

This is why Jesus shed His blood, to create the BLOOD Atonement, that is the "new Covenant".

I think you have it backwards Behold. Firstly, God doesn't need blood. He can make barrels of it if that is the case. It is men who want bllood ie, killing, aka the cessation of life.

God forgives because that's his nature (quite different to yours and mine....we want payment....either revenge or confession or some other thing we conjure up)

Have you considered that God gives concessions to our shortsightedness? An eye for an eye is a concession; it's better than taking the whole man out. Divorce is a concession; better to go seperate ways than kill each other.....and so on, there are many....even your favourite blood trip is a concession; better to kill an animal than a human. There are many concessions which God gives us human dumbo's.

God gives us the greatest gift (Jesus) and we murder him....then we tell our selves and others it was what God required and we bend the rational to suit our macabre attitude.