The Case for Eternal Security

[Behold]

A real student of the English language will understand that you should have used "than" instead of "then".
And the comma and ellipses were not needed.

@St. SteVen

אני לא מאשים אותך שניסית למצוא דרך לצאת מהבור שאתה ממשיך לחפור.......אז, העצה שלי היא שתפסיק לחפור.
ani le me'ashim otech shanisit lematzu drach letzet mehabur she'ata mimshich lechafor.......az, ha'atza shli hi shtafsik lechafor.

*hint*

* Hebrew is read from right to left.,,,,,,,,,, same as Persian or Arabic.


Also.. (and be sure to check my grammar)....

= Universalism: the false CULT teaching.... that teaches that ALL human beings will ultimately be saved and reconciled to God, regardless of their lack of faith in Christ or actions during their lifetime.
This is a "doctrine of devils'... Hebrews 13:9

 

[Runningman]

Incorrect.

When Jesus said, when you have seen me you have seen the father, and, I and the father are one, he was telling us he was immortal.
Eternal life isn't given us in this flesh. As Jesus proved. It is Soul that is given eternal life.

What I said was true. Being one with God is something Jesus said others can have in John 17:20-23 and the conclusion isn't that they are immortal. Also, I might add, Jesus' soul was not immortal. It was sacrificed, i.e., his soul died.

Isaiah 53
10Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

 

[Sister-n-Christ]

What I said was true. Being one with God is something Jesus said others can have in John 17:20-23 and the conclusion isn't that they are immortal. Also, I might add, Jesus' soul was not immortal. It was sacrificed, i.e., his soul died.

Isaiah 53
10Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

Well,that's not at all true. What it is, is a twisting of scripture.

And I admit,I have never till now encountered someone who openly directly condemns God unto death.


You saying the soul of Jesus died is blasphemy of that Holy Spirit that was God,The Word,made flesh.

No one should ever believe what you wrote. It is literally, a damned lie and sin. The only sin God will not forgive.

You have nothing else to say. You've condemned yourself. You will not take anyone else with you unless they let you lead them from God's truth.

DON'T DO THAT PEOPLE! Don't!

 

[Runningman]

Well,that's not at all true. What it is, is a twisting of scripture.

And I admit,I have never till now encountered someone who openly directly condemns God unto death.


You saying the soul of Jesus died is blasphemy of that Holy Spirit that was God,The Word,made flesh.

No one should ever believe what you wrote. It is literally, a damned lie and sin. The only sin God will not forgive.

You have nothing else to say. You've condemned yourself. You will not take anyone else with you unless they let you lead them from God's truth.

DON'T DO THAT PEOPLE! Don't!

Jesus isn't God though. Jesus is God's chosen servant, the one God anointed, empowered, and sent into the world. I believe Jesus was sacrificed. The Bible says Jesus died and when he died it wasn't just the body of Jesus that died because any one's body can die.

Can I ask you how just a body of flesh and bones was the perfect sin sacrifice when it is the very soul of someone that sins or not, not the flesh itself? Therefore, yes the sinless soul of Jesus was sacrificed as the Scripture I showed you plainly says in Isaiah 53:10.

 

[St. SteVen]

@St. SteVen Feel free to post the version of ""Universalism"""" that you believe, that teaches that a Christ rejecting sinner, = currently breathing, has to believe in Jesus and be born again on this earth before they DIE, or they will not go to Heaven, and will never be saved after they die.

What was the means of salvation in Matthew 25:31-45 ???
Have you done these things to be saved?

Matthew 25:34-36 NIV
“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father;
take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.
35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink,
I was a stranger and you invited me in,
36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me,
I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

[

 

[Behold]

What was the means of salvation in Matthew 25:31-45 ???

There is no salvation found in Matt 25.

There are no Christians in MATT 25.

Why not?

Because Salvation begain with The Cross of Christ that birthed the "body of Christ" : The Church.

 

[St. SteVen]

There is no salvation found in Matt 25.

Matthew 25:34-36 NIV
“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father;
take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.
35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink,
I was a stranger and you invited me in,
36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me,
I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

[

 

[Behold]

Come, you who are blessed by my Father;
take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.

Its a parable/


Listen...
Are unbelievers, never born again, "blessed by my Father"?,.... when in fact they are under the Wrath of God and IN Damnation....until they believe in Jesus...

= John 3:36

Damnation is only solved by SALVATION, and you have to be SAVED while you are BREATHING.


Do Christ rejectors have an "inheritance" in the KOG when in fact you have to be born again to "SEE IT", and be IN IT.. and they are not.

Unbelievers.....all have an appointment with the Great White Throne Judgement, because their name is not found in the "Lamb's book of Life".

Listen..
Jesus is not inside an unbeliever, = they do not have the Spirit of Christ in Them, so Christ does not "KNOW them" and when He does not know you, and you die, then you get this...>>"Depart from Me, I never KNEW YOU">..

Notice This verse.. "Christ IN YOU, the Hope of Glory"..
and this verse...
"The Temple of the Holy Spirit".....

Those 2 verses are not defining a CHRIST REJECTOR =never born again. (unbeliver)..........so, their defining verse is this.....

= "He that hath not the Spirit of God is NONE OF GOD'S".........not now, and not after you die.

This is why Jesus told the LIVING.....that "you must be born again".....as that is when The Spirit of Christ and the spirit in the BELIEVER become "in Christ"......."One with God"........= born.. .again.

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
Come, you who are blessed by my Father;
take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.

Its a parable/

So, only those in parables take their inheritance and enter
"the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world." ???

What about this one? Where's Jesus?

Romans 2:14-16 NIV
(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law,
do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves,
even though they do not have the law.
15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts,
their consciences also bearing witness,
and their thoughts sometimes accusing them
and at other times even defending them.)
16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets
through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

[

 

[Behold]

St. SteVen said:


So, only those in parables take their inheritance and enter
"the kingdom prepared for......... you................ since the creation of the world." ???

What we are looking for is the "YOU">....in the verse.

So, who is this one?

A.) "having Passed from death to life"........as "Translated from Darkness to LIGHT".

= "TO Light"........that means to have become a part of the "Light"., or its the one who IS The "Light".

So, to enter the KOG......happens on earth.......when you are born again....... and that is why the NT says of these that they are "seated in Heavenly Places".......as this is the KOG where "God exists IN LIGHT".

Being born again... is to become "in Christ"........and Christ is "the LIGHT of the World", and all the born again are "Children of the Light".

See that Reader?

Notice that all of this it SPIRITUAL, yet, Real....Literal.......which is different then a Parable.......as a parable is leading you to understand the Spiritual Application.....which i just showed you.


Also, ...OT Parables are not NT Doctrine for the Church., they are treaching devices that hide revelation.

Reader,

ALL things with God are Spiritual.
All Things with Christianity are Spiritual.
We are born again "Spiritually".
We are to "walk in the SPIRIT".
The words in the BIBLE are "spiritually discerned".....ONLY.

What about this one? Where's Jesus?

Romans 2:14-16 NIV
(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law,
do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves,
even though they do not have the law.
15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts,
their consciences also bearing witness,
and their thoughts sometimes accusing them
and at other times even defending them.)
16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets
through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

The answer is the Same as last time i explained these verses to you.

A.) Every person has a conscience, and that is the law of God written in your heart, and that is why an unbeliever, understands..." i sinned".. "i did something wrong", even if they have never read the 10 Commandments or Moses 613 Laws.

And there will be a time that you will be judge for "every idle word".......and notice that faith in Christ is to be "confessed"... as that is words that define your faith, that God has accepted, regarding anyone who is born again.

 

[St. SteVen]

A.) Every person has a conscience, and that is the law of God written in your heart, and that is why an unbeliever, understands..." i sinned".. "i did something wrong", even if they have never read the 10 Commandments or Moses 613 Laws.

Do you break the fourth commandment? The Sabbath.

[

 

[Behold]

Do you break the fourth commandment? The Sabbath.

-

In Israel that is referred to as "Shabbat", and religious Jews demand obedience to it because "they are ignorant of God's righteousous, and go about trying to establigh their OWN Righteousness".....(Paul explains) ...same as any Legalist on a "christian forum" who is trying to keep themselves saved.


Now, Let me show you something.......a NT verse you need to consider.

2 Corin...."""""But if the ministration of DEATH ......written and engraven in stones, """" = Thats the 10 Commandments.

See that?
That is Paul explainging that the 10 Commandments, are the "ministration of DEATH"..
So, can "death" give you etenral life?
Thats a NO.

Why not? Because we've all broken the commandments, and now the 10 Commandments define us as commandment breakers, needing to be JUDGED.

So, if you are trying to keep the 10 commandments, because you think, feel, or believe that God is going to accept you if you do, then you are not understanding why God gave the 10 commandments and the Law.
See, all of this, is to show us how unholy we are, and how we need to go to THE CROSS OF CHRIST and be forgiven, so that God can give us the new birth, and "inputed righteousness"..... found as the "new creation in Christ" = become a Son/Daughter of God, a : CHRISTian.

 

[St. SteVen]

So, if you are trying to keep the 10 commandments, because you think, feel, or believe that God is going to accept you if you do, then you are not understanding why God gave the 10 commandments and the Law.

That undoes what you wrote in this previous post.

A.) Every person has a conscience, and that is the law of God written in your heart, and that is why an unbeliever, understands..." i sinned".. "i did something wrong", even if they have never read the 10 Commandments or Moses 613 Laws.

So which is it?

Which came first?
- Human conscience
- The law

Observations about the law, the Law, God's law, Christ's law - four different things

- What's the difference between the law and the Law? (capital L) - What's the difference between the law and God's law? - What's the difference between the law, God's law, and Christ's law? The law, the Law, God's law, Christ's law; four different things. Agree, or disagree? Points...

www.christianityboard.com

Romans 5:13-14 NIV
To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given,
but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law.
14 Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses,
even over those who did not sin by breaking a command,
as did Adam, who is a pattern of the one to come.

[

 

[Behold]

That undoes what you wrote in this previous post.

If you want to try to prove a contradiciton........it wont be possible.
So, to insinuate it, is wasting your time.
Now, if there is something i posted that you feel is ..........unclear......then post the quote, and i can remedy your confusion, or i will try.

So which is it?

Which came first?
- Human conscience
- The law

""""The Law came by Moses"...

Whereas...The Human Conscience came after Adam and Eve ate that apple.

A.) The conscience came first.

To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given,
but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law.

What you just posted is the reason that Every Born again Christian is sinless.

See, you posted, that "sin is not charged when there is no Law"....

And all the born again are "not under the LAW......but under GRACE".......

This is why Paul treaches in Romans 4:8 and 2 Corin 5:19 that God does not ever again charge a sin to a CHRISTian.

14 Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses,
even over those who did not sin by breaking a command,
as did Adam, who is a pattern of the one to come.

Adam's FALL is the Fall of us ALL.
He caused "death" to come to us all, because of His sin......."""as by one man SIN enterered the world" and death by sin.
This is why our body dies., and this is why we are separated from God, until we are BORN AGAIN, forgiven all our sin.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

Which came first?
- Human conscience

Human conscience came long before the law was ever given .

Adam and Eve knew they had sinned against the Lord and tried to hide showing they knew they'd done wrong.

 

[Behold]

Human conscience came long before the law was ever given .

Adam and Eve knew they had sinned against the Lord and tried to hide showing they knew they'd done wrong.

Adam and Eve had no knowledge of good or bad, right or wrong, initially.

Once they ate of the "tree of Knowledge of good and evil" ...then their conscience was created., and once they had this they understood "good and evil".

 

[Dan Clarkston]

Adam and Eve had no knowledge of good or bad, right or wrong, initially.

If that was true then God lied.

God clearly held them responsible for their actions

He told them to NOT do something so in God's view they knew what they were supposed to do and they did the opposite

 

[Behold]

If that was true then God lied.

God clearly held them responsible for their actions

He told them to NOT do something so in God's view they knew what they were supposed to do and they did the opposite

God held them responsible for doing what He told them not to do with their free will.
So, at that time, they had no the understanding of "good and evil".

And once they ate of this knowledge, they now possessed it, and that is why they suddenly "understood they were naked"... whereas before they didnt KNOW it.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

So, at that time, they had no the understanding of "good and evil"

They understood right and wrong and then proceeded to do wrong.

If they did not know what wrong was then God is unjust for holding them responsible for their actions.

 

[Behold]

They understood right and wrong and then proceeded to do wrong.

No they didnt., as there was no Law of Moses or 10 Commandments, in the Garden of Eden.
There was no rule book that informed them, of "evil".
They only understood that God said not to eat of the tree, and they chose (free will) to eat it.

After they ate it, they were enlighted by the "tree of good and evil KNOWLEDGE" and that is your conscience.
That's how it started.

If they did not know what wrong was then God is unjust for holding them responsible for their actions.

As i told you, in the previous post......God held them accoutable for not obeying HiS one command... "do not eat of that Tree".
So, they chose to do it........and that led to the fall of us all, as "by one man's sin, sin entered the world" and we have all been made partakers of that, being "born in sin".