The Rapture and the Tribulation - Short

[Douggg]

There's nothing there in 2 Thessalonians 2 about the man of sin being resurrected from the dead. You are just making things up in your imagination.

In 2Thessalonians2:4 the Antichrist will go into the temple of God, sit, claiming to have achieve God-hood.

2Thessalonians2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

In Ezekiel 28:1-10 is God's reaction to the Antichrist's act. prince of Tyrus is a code name for the Antichrist.

2 Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:



6 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thou hast set thine heart as the heart of God;
7 Behold, therefore I will bring strangers upon thee, the terrible of the nations: and they shall draw their swords against the beauty of thy wisdom, and they shall defile thy brightness.
8 They shall bring thee down to the pit, and thou shalt die the deaths of them that are slain in the midst of the seas.
9 Wilt thou yet say before him that slayeth thee, I am God? but thou shalt be a man, and no God, in the hand of him that slayeth thee.
10 Thou shalt die the deaths of the uncircumcised by the hand of strangers: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord GOD.

God has the revealed man of sin assassinated in verse 7. Because the person will be a Jew, in further disdain for the person, God say the person shall die like an uncircumcised person in verse 10.

When God casts the person soul out of hell, described as the pit in verse 8, God does so in disdain for the person, in Isaiah 14:20, not wanting to him to have the honor of having his body buried in a ornate tomb, like other famous kings. Because...

Isaiah 14:20 Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.

The person, although himself a Jew, will betray his own Jewish people.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

In 2Thessalonians2:4 the Antichrist will go into the temple of God, sit, claiming to have achieve God-hood.

The temple of God is the church, according to Paul himself. So, why are you interpreting "the temple of God" differently here than how Paul described it elsewhere in his writings such as Ephesians 2:19-22, 1 Corinthians 3:16-17 and 2 Corinthians 6:16?

 

[Douggg]

The temple of God is the church, according to Paul himself. So, why are you interpreting "the temple of God" differently here than how Paul described it elsewhere in his writings such as Ephesians 2:19-22, 1 Corinthians 3:16-17 and 2 Corinthians 6:16?

The church, the collectively metaphorical body of Christ, is the metaphorical temple of God. In which, the Holy Spirit dwells in the souls of Christians.

The Antichrist in 2Thessalonians2:4 will go into the physical temple of God, to be built on the temple mount in Jerusalem.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The church, the collectively metaphorical body of Christ, is the metaphorical temple of God. In which, the Holy Spirit dwells in the souls of Christians.

The Antichrist in 2Thessalonians2:4 will go into the physical temple of God, to be built on the temple mount in Jerusalem.

There cannot be a future physical temple of God. God no longer dwells in temples made with hands. Why would He have any use for a future physical temple? He would not.

Acts 7:48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,

Acts 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;

 

[Douggg]

There cannot be a future physical temple of God. God no longer dwells in temples made with hands. Why would He have any use for a future physical temple? He would not.

Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

Would the holy place not be the temple mount ?

The Jews will build the next temple on the temple mount. It will be intended for the praise and worship of the One True God. Which the Antichrist will desecrate that intention, and make it desolate of the praise and worship of the One True God.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

Would the holy place not be the temple mount ?

No, of course not. There is no reason to think that any future physical temple could possibly be the temple of God because He longer dwells in temples made with hands. Did you not read my post? That verse is about what happened in 70 AD.

The Jews will build the next temple on the temple mount.

What "next temple"? Explain to me how God could possibly want such a temple to be built for Him.

It will be intended for the praise and worship of the One True God.

Who cares what it is intended for? Those Christ rejecting Jews do not know who the One True God is. It would only be built if God commanded for it to be built and He would never do that because scripture says explicitly that He no longer dwells in temples made with human hands (Acts 7:48, Acts 17:24).

Which the Antichrist will desecrate that intention, and make it desolate of the praise and worship of the One True God.

It means absolutely nothing what some Antichrist might do in some temple that God couldn't care less about. The temple of God that God dwells in now is the church and He will dwell in us forever with no need or desire for any physical temple in the future.

 

[Douggg]

No, of course not. There is no reason to think that any future physical temple could possibly be the temple of God because He longer dwells in temples made with hands. Did you not read my post? That verse is about what happened in 70 AD.

No, Matthew 24:15-21 is not about 70 AD. Matthew 24:15, Jesus cites the abomination of desolation spoke about by Daniel.

The abomination of desolation is in Daniel 12:11-12. The abomination of desolation in those verses is time of the end, Daniel 12:9.

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The temple of God to be built by the Jews is necessary for the animals sacrifices to begin again. Which the Antichrist will stop and commit the transgression of desolation, Daniel 8:13. Which will take place at the time of the end, Daniel 8:17.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

No, Matthew 24:15-21 is not about 70 AD.

Yes, it is. It is a parallel passage to Luke 21:20-24 which describes exactly what happened in 70 AD.

The temple of God to be built by the Jews is necessary for the animals sacrifices to begin again.

Why would God care about animal sacrifices when Jesus already made them obsolete long ago?

Which the Antichrist will stop and commit the transgression of desolation, Daniel 8:13. Which will take place at the time of the end, Daniel 8:17.

Why would some Antichrist care about stopping meaningless animal sacrifices?

 

[The Light]

I, of course, disagree with which covenant it's talking about there, but I agree with you in the sense that it was made long before it is confirmed. The Light doesn't seem to know the difference between making and confirming a covenant.

You must be misreading my post. I am attempting to say that the covenant is made BEFORE it is confirmed.

There will be a 7 year covenant made with many. Likely a UN covenant like the one made in September of 2023. At a later point I believe this 7 year covenant will be confirmed by the Antichrist.

So, I know the difference between making and confirming a covenant.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You must be misreading my post.

You are not being clear. I'm not the only one who thought you were saying confirming and making a covenant is the same thing. That's how you came across.

I am attempting to say that the covenant is made BEFORE it is confirmed.

No offense, but you failed to make that clear. It happens. We're not always as clear as we think we are. So, thanks for clarifying this.

There will be a 7 year covenant made with many. Likely a UN covenant like the one made in September of 2023. At a later point I believe this 7 year covenant will be confirmed by the Antichrist.

So, I know the difference between making and confirming a covenant.

So, how long before the covenant of Daniel 9:27 is confirmed do you think it is made? Where is the scripture that you think speaks of when that covenant was made or will be made?

 

[Douggg]

Why would some Antichrist care about stopping meaningless animal sacrifices?

The sacrifices will not be meaningless to the Jews who will be making them.

The Antichrist will stop the animal sacrifices because...

Daniel 8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

He will think he has achieved God-hood.

Now look at Ezekiel 28:1-10, God's reaction when he claims to have achieved God-hood, and sits in the temple, in the place reserved for God, the Holy of Holies chamber in the temple sanctuary building....

Ezekiel 28:2 Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:

Back in Genesis, the lie of the serpent was that man can become gods. The little horn person (the Antichrist), a Jew, causes craft to prosper (Daniel 8:25). In Kabbalah, i.e. Jewish mysticism, the belief is that the accomplished Kabbalists can have the angels help carry out the Kabbalist's goals. So along the line, the tables will be reversed, and Satan will deceive the little horn person into thinking the same lie as the serpent spoke on Satan's behalf in the garden - that man can become gods.

And the little horn person will magnify himself in his heart that he can indeed become a god.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The sacrifices will not be meaningless to the Jews who will be making them.

We're talking about the temple of God, not the temple of the Jews. Your imaginary temple is not the temple of God.

 

[Douggg]

We're talking about the temple of God, not the temple of the Jews. Your imaginary temple is not the temple of God.

The temple of God will be built by the Jews for the worship and praise of the One True God. Nor for the worship and praise directed at the Jews themselves.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The temple of God will be built by the Jews for the worship and praise of the One True God. Nor for the worship and praise directed at the Jews themselves.

You are not getting it. The temple of God is a temple that God Himself would consider to be His temple. That has always been the case. The temple you're talking about is not one that God would consider to be His temple. Others thinking so means nothing.

 

[The Light]

The seventh king will be the end times little horn person.

The seventh king is the rider on the white horse. The eighth king is the little horn. The eighth king is of the seven. The eighth king is Nimrod, the king of Babylon and the Assyrian.

The tomb of Gilgamesh was found in 2003. Gilgamesh is Nimrod. The second Gulf war started at the same timeframe. We were looking for those nonexistent weapons of mass destruction or so they claimed. Just needed to make a stop at Nimrods tomb and the Iraqi museum to pick up thousands of ancient artifacts...........with writings.

Nimrod was found in the secret burial chamber. And Christ said.

Matthew 24
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

He will be killed and brought back to life to become the eighth king - the beast king.

The seventh king will be killed and remain dead.

The "continues a short space" is the 42 months in Revelation 13:5.

The continues a short space is from the time the 7th king receives the stephanos crown until he dies BEFORE the great tribulation which begins in the middle of the week.

Daniel 11
45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

Daniel 12
1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

If you look closely at my diagram of the 5 stages of the little horn, on the left right above "the little horn" in blue text, I have a box that says "King 7 of Revelation 17:10". You can click on the diagram which will open a new window with it enlarged, to make it easier to view.

And on the right hand side, above the beast-king, I have a box that says "King 8 of Revelation 17:11".

The 7th king does not become the eighth king. The 1st king, Nimrod, who had the deadly wound of the sword will live again., is the eighth king. He is the king of Babylon and Assyrian of Isaiah 14.

Ecclesiastes 1
9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

Nimrod is the sun in ancient Babylonian religion.

 

[Douggg]

The eighth king is the little horn.

The eighth king is Nimrod, the king of Babylon and the Assyrian.

So you are claiming the little horn person of Daniel 7 and Daniel 8 is Nimrod.

So how is Nimrod going to come on the scene ?

The little horn person is someone who is born and grows up in the end times. He just does not appear out of nowhere.

 

[The Light]

Hi rebuilder 454

The problem is calling the 7 year 70th week - "the trib". It is misleading to do so because a big portion of the first half will not be tribulation, as the world will be saying "peace and safety" thinking it has entered the messianic age.

By habit the proponents of the pre-trib, mid-trib, post-trib views of the rapture time have referred to the 70th week as "the tribulation", "trib" for short.

What I suggest is to avoid the confusion, while not changing your view of when the rapture takes place is to refer to pre-trib view as the pre-70th week view. Same goes for the other two views.

pre-trib ....call instead......> pre-70th week

mid-trib....call instead......> mid-70th week

post-trib....call instead......> post-70th week.

If you apply my suggestion, it will eliminate a lot of arguments that you encounter because of wording.

I see a problem with this as there is only 3.5 years left in the 70th week of Daniel

 

[Douggg]

You are not getting it. The temple of God is a temple that God Himself would consider to be His temple. That has always been the case. The temple you're talking about is not one that God would consider to be His temple. Others thinking so means nothing.

The sanctuary in Daniel 8:13-14 is referring to the temple building. That you don't want to acknowledge that the temple that the Jews are going to build is for their worship and praise of the One True God is irrelevant to what is going to happen.

Daniel 8:13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?
14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

 

[Douggg]

I see a problem with this as there is only 3.5 years left in the 70th week of Daniel

No, there are the 7 years of the 70th week left.

Those 7 years are the same 7 years of Ezekiel 39:9.

 

[The Light]

You are not being clear. I'm not the only one who thought you were saying confirming and making a covenant is the same thing. That's how you came across.

Not sure what the problem was. Here are my quotes from my posts

"I say the final 7 years begins when a covenant with many is made."

"As I said...........with scriptural proof...............the 7 year period will begin when a covenant with many is made such as the UN 7 year covenant that was made with many in September 2023.

We will not know which covenant it is until the Antichrist confirms a seven year covenant."

No offense, but you failed to make that clear. It happens. We're not always as clear as we think we are. So, thanks for clarifying this.

It's all good. Things happen.

Where is the scripture that you think speaks of when that covenant was made or will be made?

This is no scripture that I am aware of that tells us when the covenant with many is made. After the 7-year covenant with many is made, I don't think we can determine if it is the covenant being spoken of until the Antichrist confirms it. For instance, when the UN made a 7 year covenant with many on 9/2023 we won't know if that is the correct covenant until it is confirmed by the Antichrist.

I know you don't believe this, however, the rapture of the Church will happen before the antichrist comes to power. There will be an immediate world government as "the aliens" have attacked according to the lie that will be passed to the world. Then God turns His attention to the 12 tribes across the earth. That is why there are 144,000 first fruits.