Kind of both, really... to just see how long I can keep you going... how many is this now? LOL! ... and trying to get you to quit making a fool of yourself. But so it goes... and goes and goes and goes... <
smile>
Well, that you're going to keep trying to paint it that way, but still every time putting another coat of paint on yourself in that corner you're in...
...ah, which you keep stating the opposite of what it is and then agreeing with what it really is...
A glutton for humor... Laughing is a good thing...
Yep, God's in control, and works everything together for the good of those who love him and are called according to His purpose. That's Romans 8:28, of course. Just once I would like someone to prove the concept of luck or chance to me. I mean, is it luck when a basketball player makes a half-court shot at the buzzer to win? Well, no, because he or she put just the right arc and force and touch on the ball for it to go through the hoop, so just physics and geometry prove it wasn't luck. Would he or she only have made that shot one time out of a hundred or a thousand? Well maybe, but that matters not. Just a simple illustration, but surely sufficient. Nothing happens in this universe that God doesn't direct or allow; nothing, absolutely nothing, occurs outside of His will.
"Who then is this, that He commands even winds and water, and they obey Him?"
Or, as He "questions" Job:
"Who is this that darkens counsel by words without knowledge? Dress for action like a man; I will question you, and you make it known to Me. Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell Me, if you have understanding. Who determined its measurements ~ surely you know! Or who stretched the line upon it? On what were its bases sunk, or who laid its cornerstone, when the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy? Or who shut in the sea with doors when it burst out from the womb, when I made clouds its garment and thick darkness its swaddling band, and prescribed limits for it and set bars and doors, and said, ‘Thus far shall you come, and no farther, and here shall your proud waves be stayed’? Have you commanded the morning since your days began, and caused the dawn to know its place, that it might take hold of the skirts of the earth, and the wicked be shaken out of it? It is changed like clay under the seal, and its features stand out like a garment. From the wicked their light is withheld, and their uplifted arm is broken. Have you entered into the springs of the sea, or walked in the recesses of the deep? Have the gates of death been revealed to you, or have you seen the gates of deep darkness? Have you comprehended the expanse of the earth? Declare, if you know all this..."
And on and on and on... And finally Job falls on His knees three chapters later:
"I know that You can do all things, and that no purpose of Yours can be thwarted... Therefore I have uttered what I did not understand, things too wonderful for me, which I did not know... I had heard of You by the hearing of the ear, but now my eye sees You; therefore I despise myself, and repent in dust and ashes."
Yes. Agreed.
Well this is what folks of any degree of Arminian influence say, because their so schnockered by and heavily personally invested in at least three of his five objections. But it's just a silly caricature, really.
This is where it all starts, every time, really, There's a reason why this was Arminius's first objection. He had to start with a terrible underestimation of the effects of the Fall of Adam and Eve on mankind. If he and all those that have come after him understood this, then the dominoes might start to fall.
Now, "out of their control"... in a sense yes, but in another sense no. Adam was not deceived, only Eve was. But Adam was there, and he knew what God said, but said and did nothing. But he disobeyed God... and did not fulfill his responsibility to God for Eve and keep her from sinning; all of this is why Adam's sin (as head of his wife) was much greater than Eve's. And Adam was the federal head of the human race, so representing all of us in the Garden. And just as God had told him in Genesis 2:17, he died ~ not physically, but a real, spiritual death ~ that very day.. It was his sin that plunged the entire human race into this state ~ at enmity with God, spiritually dead. That natural state of man is so often so vastly underestimated.
Right, what can be known about God has been clearly seen in all of creation by all from the beginning. But so many exchange the truth for a lie and worship creation instead.
For sure, every person, as a consequence of the Fall (the sin of Adam and Eve), is born with a sinful nature that affects all areas of their being ~ mind, will, emotions, and flesh. But that has no bearing on the fact that, as Paul says in Romans 1, what can be known about God they cannot know; Paul say it is plain to them, because God has shown it to them, but they still have exchanged the truth for a lie, which is a voluntary act on their part, and it is this for which they have no excuse. An act of free will, which, I know, is a very precious thing to you... (me, too, actually). <smile> God certainly gave us free will, and we often misuse it, even those of us who have been born again of the Spirit...
HAHA! No mystery at all.
Yes, and we (Christians) love because God first loved us. But regarding unbelievers, God could just take them out, right? But yet what He does, concerning unbelievers, is
endure them with much patience, even giving them over to their own selfish passions and desires, and all the while giving them grace. Not the grace of salvation of course, but sometimes even great measures of grace.
The above is in this life. But there will come a time when His perfect justice will be upheld, once and for all, and this is according to His glory. But in all this is love. Even this punishment of unbelievers in eternity, though it may not seem this way to us in our finite minds, is administered in love. He gives them life in the first place (this is love), and He endures them in great patience and gives them up to themselves, and even gives them great measures of grace (this is love), and finally, gives them what they have chosen for themselves (this is love), and even His execution of judgment in eternity is love. God loves all of His creation, but administers that love differently, even in eternity. Yes, God is love. Just not our exceedingly small idea of love... His thoughts are not our thoughts, His ways not ours.
Ah, well, God is not part anything. And hate is not the opposite of love, or even opposed to it, but a different expression of it. The opposite of love is indifference, not caring, and God is not ever indifferent or uncaring about anything.
Well, in addition to your free will, if you would start actually using your brain, that would be awesome. <
smile> Like I have said, you may not consider yourself an Arminian, but you at least carry quite a bit of that... baggage...
Grace and peace to you.
