The Case for Eternal Security

[Dan Clarkston]

They only understood that God said NOT to eat of the tree, and they chose (free will) to eat it.

God held poor little helpless ignorant Adam and Eve responsible for their actions after instructing them to HAVE DOMINION

The fact of the matter is God put Adam in authority and God's Word tells us Eve was deceived but Adam was not.

Adam knew fully well what He was about to do was wrong

1 Timothy 2:14
Adam was not deceived

we have all been made partakers of that, being "born in sin".

So you live in sin then because you believe God made you to be a sinner?

That's what many are falsely taught to believe that they could never stop living in sin because God created them to be sinners to punish them for what Adam did.

 

[Behold]

God held poor little helpless ignorant Adam and Eve responsible for their actions after instructing them to HAVE DOMINION

Having dominion, has nothing to do with why Adam chose to disobey God's command.

Adam, ....before He chose to eat of the "tree of the KNOWLEDGE OF good and evil"..........didnt have that knowledge.
So, when Adam decided to disobey God, = he was using his freewill and the consequences of that choice caused him to enter into spiritual separation from God, and Adam's body eventually died.

When Adam tasted of the "tree of the Knowledge of good and evil", he was enlighted to KNOW "good vs evil" and that is the "conscience".
That is when Adam's begain.

The fact of the matter is God put Adam in authority and God's Word tells us Eve was deceived but Adam was not.

Again, .

Adam's dominion is not related to why Adam chose to disobey God, which created a literal and spiriual end result that ruined everything for us all.
The 2nd Adam, has offered to restore any and all sinners back into eternal spiritual UNION with God., by virtue of The Cross of Christ.

Adam knew fully well what He was about to do was wrong

1 Timothy 2:14
Adam was not deceived

Yes, Adam knew He was doing what God told Him NOT to do.
He knew He was willfully breaking God's command.......but what He didn't know was what would happen to His mind and His spirit and His body and his future and his life, once He ate of "the Tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil".

 

[Dan Clarkston]

Adam knew He was doing what God told Him NOT to do.

Thank you for acknowledging that Adam was not ignorant about what he was about to do.

Therefore he knew he was doing evil, which is doing something in opposition to the Lord.

If Adam did not know he was doing evil, then God is unjust for holding him accountable for his actions.

That's obviously not the case because God is not unjust and can never be unjust

 

[Behold]

Thank you for acknowledging that Adam was not ignorant about what he was about to do.

In my first post to you i told you that God held Adam accountable for His Choice to disobey God's command.
So, for Adam to make the free will choice, proves that Adam made it, knowingly.
He KNEW he as disobeying God's command.

Adam was told....>"do not eat of the Tree of the Knowledge of good and Evil".
Adam understood this......and DECIDED to use his Free Will, to disobey.

Therefore he knew he was doing evil, which is doing something in opposition to the Lord.

Adam had no understanding of EVIL, until he gained a conscience.....and that came as the enlightenment that is the result of investigating the "Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil".
Till then, He was free from this knowledge............but once he gained it, by taking the knowledge from this Tree, then his conscience, or the "knowledge of good and evil" now existed in Him and in Eve.
Its why we have it.

If Adam did not know he was doing evil, then God is unjust for holding him accountable for his actions.

The "action" that Adam was held accountable for, was to disobey God's ONE command.
God told Adam, .. "Do not eat of the Tree of the knowledge of Good and evil".....and Adam choose to do it.
This caused the fall of us all.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

In my first post to you

And you have been speculating ever since.

Thanks for sharing your opinion on the mater.

Adam knew what he was doing was in opposition to the Lord so he knew he was doing evil.

That wraps up today's lesson on Adam's high treason against God.

 

[Behold]

And you have been speculating ever since.

I never speculate.
I just post Paul's Theology.

Thanks for sharing your opinion on the mater.

Whenever a Hebrews 6:1 can't stand to be shown some truth, they always want to pretend that the other is "posting opinions"

Actually the problem is you.
You are not capalbe of learning right now, because to do that you have to be willing.

Adam knew what he was doing was in opposition to the Lord so he knew he was doing evil.

Well, God was there, and Adam and Eve were there, according to Genesis.

God told them not to do something, and SHE was tempted to do it, by Satan, and Adam chose it.

After they ate of the Tree "Of the Knowledge of Good and Evil" that they didnt have yet.........they soon discovered that what they now had a conscience.......and that is the knowledge of good and evil.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

I never speculate.

Keep telling yourself that, and you can continue to falsely believe everything you say is perfection

Sit cross legged, light some incense, smoke a little ganga, and chant over and over "my word is perfection... my word is perfection... my word is perfection"
Thanks for the comedy entertainment, it's really hilarious

 

[Behold]

Keep telling yourself that, and you can continue to falsely believe everything you say is perfection View attachment 63081

I teach Pauline Theology.

Google it, and find out what you've never learned, that explains why you can't understand what you should have learned, long ago.

I mean, if a person reads... "do not eat of the Tree of the KNOWLEDGE of good and evil" and can't comprhend that if you had it already, it would not matter if you ate it............then that person is "young minded" and "theologically waiting to start".

That's a fact.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

I teach Pauline Theology

Then you should heed the warning the Lord gave thru Paul and acknowledge the whole counsel of God

1 Timothy 6:3-5
If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

Here Paul is acknowledging the Word of the Lord Jesus Christ and slams those who reject the Lord's teachings telling believers to withdraw themselves from such false teachers

That's a fact.

That's speculation based on opinions not backed by the whole counsel of God.

Cherry pickers do this as we see quite often as they speak in behalf of the devil and don't even know it

 

[Sister-n-Christ]

Do you break the fourth commandment? The Sabbath.

[

Tenacious. ;)

You're trying to teach a false teacher to stop trying to mislead people.
Have you noticed how long they've been here? Been at it?

 

[Dan Clarkston]

Do you break the fourth commandment? The Sabbath.

Do you even know what the Sabbath is under the New Covenant?

Hint, it's much more than just deciding to have church on Saturday

 

[St. SteVen]

Do you even know what the Sabbath is under the New Covenant?

Hint, it's much more than just deciding to have church on Saturday

Why would the Sabbath be under the New Covenant?
We are not under the law.

Galatians 3:23-25 NIV
Before the coming of this faith,[a] we were held in custody under the law,
locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed.
24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith.
25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

[

 

[Dan Clarkston]

Why would the Sabbath is under the New Covenant?
We are not under the law.

I never said it was.

Your 7th Day Adventitious friends think it is though and claim people go to hell for not having church on Saturdays

 

[BarneyFife]

I never said it was.

Your 7th Day Adventitious friends think it is though and claim people go to hell for not having church on Saturdays

I'd like to meet some of these 7th Day Adventitious characters who claim people go to hell for not having church on Saturdays.

I thought people only got hellfire for rejecting God's offer to remit their sin.

 

[Sister-n-Christ]

Why would the Sabbath be under the New Covenant?
We are not under the law.

Galatians 3:23-25 NIV
Before the coming of this faith,[a] we were held in custody under the law,
locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed.
24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith.
25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

[

Jesus preached the kingdom of God and Salvation by grace.
If, Apostle Paul taught anything differently than did Jesus,Paul is wrong.

Jesus taught the moral law. And fulfilled it,lived it perfectly,by example. He did not ever abolish it.

We know that to be true because our hearts of stone,like the tablets at Sinai, are now flesh and filled with his love and holy Spirit. And his laws are written there too.

So,any who teach those laws do not exist today in the Christian,for the Christian,are in error. And teaching contrary to Jesus himself.

 

[Grailhunter]

2nd Corinthians :5:10: For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad..

Matthew 18:9 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you. It is better for you to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire.

Philippians 2:12 So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling;

1st Corinthians 6:9-10 “Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor those habitually drunk, nor verbal abusers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God”

Galatians 5:19-21 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: sexual immorality, impurity, indecent behavior, idolatry, witchcraft, hostilities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions, envy, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

 

[MatthewG]

Faithfully living to see God until ya die. Even when in times when you may not be fully sure why, or even understand the reason God even cares for you at all. Contentment with Yahavah is founded in faith in the death, burial, and resurrection of Yeshua.

There is not just the death.
Not just the burial.
But the raising with Christ within you as you walk in new spiritual life as an adopted Child of God.

 

[St. SteVen]

Jesus taught the moral law. And fulfilled it,lived it perfectly,by example. He did not ever abolish it.

How do you substantiate that claim?

[

 

[BarneyFife]

How do you substantiate that claim?

[

SUBSTANTIATING THE CLAIM:
THE MORAL LAW (TEN COMMANDMENTS) NOT ABOLISHED IN THE NEW TESTAMENT

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I. JESUS'S TEACHINGS ON THE LAW
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1. MATTHEW 5:17-19 (Sermon on the Mount)
PASSAGE:
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

SUBSTANTIATION:
Jesus explicitly states He did *not* come to abolish (kataluō – "destroy," "invalidate") the Law but to "fulfill" it (plēroō – "to make full," "to bring to its intended meaning," "to complete"). He affirms its enduring validity and the importance of teaching and obeying it. "Fulfill" does not mean "abolish."

2. MATTHEW 5:21-48 (Sermon on the Mount – Intensification of the Law)
PASSAGES (Examples):
- On murder (6th Commandment): "You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder; and whoever murders will be liable to judgment.’ But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment..." (vv. 21-22).
- On adultery (7th Commandment): "You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart." (vv. 27-28).

SUBSTANTIATION:
Jesus deepens and internalizes these commandments, showing their true spiritual intent extends to thoughts and attitudes. This is an affirmation and expansion, not an abolition.

3. MATTHEW 19:16-19 (The Rich Young Ruler)
PASSAGE:
"And behold, a man came up to him, saying, 'Teacher, what good deed must I do to have eternal life?' And he said to him, 'Why do you ask me about what is good? There is only one who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments.' He said to him, 'Which ones?' And Jesus said, 'You shall not murder, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, Honor your father and mother, and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.'"

SUBSTANTIATION:
When asked about eternal life, Jesus points to the Ten Commandments as the standard of righteousness.

4. MATTHEW 22:36-40 (The Greatest Commandment)
PASSAGE:
"Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?" And he said to him, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets."

SUBSTANTIATION:
Jesus summarizes the Ten Commandments under love for God (Commandments 1-4) and love for neighbor (Commandments 5-10). This distills their core principle, not abolishes them.

5. JOHN 14:15, 21
PASSAGES:
"If you love me, you will keep my commandments." (v. 15)
"Whoever has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me." (v. 21)

SUBSTANTIATION:
Jesus's commandments are in harmony with the Father's moral law. Love for Christ is expressed through obedience to His teachings, which uphold God's moral character.

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II. PAUL'S TEACHINGS ON THE LAW
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1. ROMANS 3:31
PASSAGE:
"Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law."

SUBSTANTIATION:
After establishing justification by faith, Paul emphatically states that faith *upholds* or *establishes* the law, likely by showing its true purpose and leading to Spirit-empowered obedience.

2. ROMANS 7:7, 12
PASSAGES:
"What then shall we say? That the law is sin? By no means! Yet if it had not been for the law, I would not have known sin. For I would not have known what it is to covet if the law had not said, 'You shall not covet.'" (v. 7)
"So the law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good." (v. 12)

SUBSTANTIATION:
Paul affirms the goodness, holiness, and righteousness of the law (quoting the 10th commandment). Its function is to reveal sin.

3. ROMANS 8:3-4
PASSAGE:
"For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit."

SUBSTANTIATION:
The "righteous requirement of the law" is fulfilled *in* believers through the Holy Spirit, indicating the law's moral demands are still valid and met in a new, Spirit-empowered way.

4. ROMANS 13:8-10
PASSAGE:
"Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, 'You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,' and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law."

SUBSTANTIATION:
Paul lists several Ten Commandments and states that love fulfills them, confirming the principle of love as their essence.

To be cont'd

 

[BarneyFife]

How do you substantiate that claim?

[

Cont'd

5. 1 CORINTHIANS 6:9-10
PASSAGE:
"Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."

SUBSTANTIATION:
This list of vices corresponds to violations of the Ten Commandments, implying these moral standards are still in effect.

6. GALATIANS 5:14
PASSAGE:
"For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.'"

SUBSTANTIATION:
Paul summarizes the law in the command to love. Galatians argues against legalism for justification, not against the moral law as a guide.

7. EPHESIANS 6:1-3
PASSAGE:
"Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. 'Honor your father and mother' (this is the first commandment with a promise), 'that it may go well with you and that you may live long in the land.'"

SUBSTANTIATION:
Paul directly quotes the fifth commandment and applies it to Christian believers, showing its continuing relevance.

8. 1 TIMOTHY 1:8-11
PASSAGE:
"Now we know that the law is good, if one uses it lawfully, understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine..."

SUBSTANTIATION:
Paul affirms the law is "good" when used "lawfully" (not for justification) and lists sins that are violations of the Ten Commandments.

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III. OTHER NEW TESTAMENT WRITERS
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1. JAMES 2:8-12
PASSAGE:
"If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself,' you are doing well. But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become guilty of all of them. For he who said, 'Do not commit adultery,' also said, 'Do not murder.' If you do not commit adultery but do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. So speak and so act as those who are to be judged under the law of liberty."

SUBSTANTIATION:
James references commandments ("Do not commit adultery," "Do not murder") and the "royal law," stressing the unity of the law and its continued validity.

2. 1 JOHN 2:3-4
PASSAGE:
"And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments. Whoever says 'I know him' but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him."

SUBSTANTIATION:
Knowing God is evidenced by keeping His commandments, understood as the moral expressions of God's will.

3. 1 JOHN 3:4
PASSAGE:
"Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness."

SUBSTANTIATION:
Sin is defined as "lawlessness" (anomia). The continued reality of sin implies the continued existence of God's law.

4. 1 JOHN 5:2-3
PASSAGE:
"By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and obey his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome."

SUBSTANTIATION:
Love for God is demonstrated by obedience to His commandments, which are not grievous for those who love God.

5. HEBREWS 8:10 (quoting Jeremiah 31:33)
PASSAGE:
"For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my laws into their minds, and write them on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people."

SUBSTANTIATION:
The New Covenant internalizes the law, writing it on hearts and minds, leading to willing, Spirit-led obedience. This is an upgrade in how the law is kept, not its cancellation.

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IMPORTANT DISTINCTIONS
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- MORAL LAW VS. CEREMONIAL/CIVIL LAW:
The New Testament teaches the ceremonial laws (sacrifices, rituals) and civil laws (specific to ancient Israel's theocracy) that are not also supportive of, or relative to the moral law were fulfilled in Christ and are no longer binding. The focus of continuity is on the moral law, reflecting God's unchanging character.

- LAW FOR JUSTIFICATION VS. LAW FOR SANCTIFICATION:
The NT is clear: no one is justified (declared righteous) by keeping the law (Romans 3:20; Galatians 2:16). Justification is by grace through faith. However, for the justified, the moral law serves as a guide for sanctification (holy living).

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CONCLUSION
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The New Testament overwhelmingly indicates the moral law (Ten Commandments) was not abolished. Its deepest meaning was revealed, its demands intensified to include the heart, and its fulfillment is now possible through the Holy Spirit for believers. It remains the divine standard for righteous living, an expression of love for God and neighbor.