The Church decided the canon. How do you know you have the correct canon?

[One 2 question]

Let me ask you a question. what do you do when you reveal a new truth that you believe God has given to you, and someone else reveals a truth they believe God gave them that contradicts your new truth?

I follow the Spirit within me. I hear Him, believe what He says and obey Him. Our relationship is personal, unique and tailored to the 2 of us.

If what He says to another is different then it is different, tailored their relationship.

As a rule, and according to the law, I drive within the set speed limit. But if I see a person fly past me driving way beyond the speed limit then I will just accept it. Will I join them in breaking the law? No, unless my wife is about to give birth and is experiencing some complications that could threaten her life and the life of our baby.

To give life or take life. To kill or not to kill. To hand someone over to God or to hand them over to Satan. To love or to hate. To cast your pearls or not to cast them.

I trust the Spirit I'm in a relationship with to know what to instruct me in any given situation. I trust Him in my fellow church member to do the same.

 

[One 2 question]

So if this Spirit you are following reveals a truth that contradicts the bible, what do you do?

Again, that's becoming much easier these days. I simply obey the Spirit in me. I am getting better at acknowledging what the same Spirit says to the next person regardless if I can reconcile it with what the Spirit has taught me or not, be it Paul and his writtings or my brother down the street.

 

[One 2 question]

This is a tragedy. If you do not filter all visions, vioces , and dreeams therough the Bible you are probably far away from Jesus listening to a sweet sounding counterfeit voice. Don't think you can't be fooled! The demons are far smarter than you and I even though we have the Spirit.

Not probably far away from Jesus as we are one, united as a head is to its body. The Divine Spirit of the Sovereign is in me and He is far greater than any external spirit that's for sure. This is very comforting.

 

[Wick Stick]

Most evangelical scholars concur that the canon was not "decided" but the books were self-evidently part of the canon. The canonical books were each recognized as such due to their 'living' nature.

On the other hand, "evangelical scholars" is a bit of an oxymoron.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The Spirit of God revealed the mass repenting of all those outside His kingdom. The one who led the turning back to their Creators was Satan.

As I observed this scene, the Creators accepted them, reconciling every one of them to Themselves.

God the Father went further than that. While engaging with Satan, He reached behind Him and produced a throne to His left. This prodigal angel was shown divine mercy and grace.

Now isn't that something amazing, that not only the angels in heaven will rejoice over, but we the firstfuits also, as we join them in worshipping our Creators. What a reunion party this will be! To be reunited with those we were separated from, be it us humans or angels. The prodigal angels have returned. This is so exciting! My heart can't help but be filled with joy right now. Oh the love of God for Their creation is absolutely astounding.

No it is not amazing, but a hideous lie!

Satan is doomed to the lake of fire forever as is written.

This totally contradicts God Inspired word!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Again, that's becoming much easier these days. I simply obey the Spirit in me. I am getting better at acknowledging what the same Spirit says to the next person regardless if I can reconcile it with what the Spirit has taught me or not, be it Paul and his writtings or my brother down the street.

So you have no problem with the Spirit saying one thing to you and a contradictory thing to another then. WOW!

Not probably far away from Jesus as we are one, united as a head is to its body. The Divine Spirit of the Sovereign is in me and He is far greater than any external spirit that's for sure. This is very comforting.

But other than you rown opinion and feeling, you have no way of proving all these new truths are truths or lies to lead you captive. My brother you are in very dangerous territory. The post I answered above proves you are very confused and have bought a lie. The Spirit of God will never contradict teh bible nor will He give contradictory things to differing people as far as truth is.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

On the other hand, "evangelical scholars" is a bit of an oxymoron.

No there are legions of "evangelical" scholars. I would suspect you have a very prejudiced view of evangelicals in general.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Maybe you should learn Gods Word better instead of mans opinions.

Pray in Matthew 7 is : proseuchomai, while pray in acts 27 is: parakaleō two different words with two different meanings- you failed.

Please show me one place in Scripture where anyone proseuchomai prayed to the Holy spirit.

This is the problem with Sola Scriptura. IF everything we believe MUST come from Scripture – then YOU are a heretic for believing in Sola Scriptura because it is NOT taught.

As I educated you earlier – the Holy Spirit is GOD – and the Scriptures affirm this (John 14:16-18, Acts 5:3-4) . Show me a SINGLE verse that says we should NOT pray to God.

It also doesn't say some pope sitting on his throne is any authority either.

But we do know these words from god's Word:

2 Peter 1:19-21​

King James Version​

19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Matthew 4:4
But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Matthew 5:18
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Law=Pentateuch of the bible.

From Psalm 119:

11 Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee.

103 How sweet are thy words unto my taste! yea, sweeter than honey to my mouth!

104 Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way.

105 Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

2 Timothy 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

And not ONE of these verses even implies that Scripture is out ONLY Authority.
On the contrary - Scripture itself tells us that the Church is our supreme earthly Authority.

Matt 16:18-19 / Matt. 18:18
I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. WHATEVER YOU BIND on earth shall be bound in heaven; and WHATEVER YOU LOOSE on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

John 16:12-15
“I have much more to tell you, but you cannot bear it now.
But when he comes, the Spirit of truth, he will guide you to ALL truth. He will not speak on his own, but he will speak what he hears, and will declare to YOU the things that are coming.
He will glorify me, because he will TAKE from what is MINE and declare it to YOU.
Everything that the Father has is MINE; for this reason I told you that he will TAKE from what is MINE and declare it to YOU.

John 20:21-23
Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent ME, so I send YOU.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the holy Spirit. Whose sins YOU FORGIVE are forgiven them, and whose sins YOU RETAIN are retained.”

Luke 10:16
Whoever listens to YOU listens to ME. Whoever rejects YOU rejects ME. And whoever rejects ME rejects the ONE who sent ME."

Remember that there was NO BIBLE for 400 years. Did ALL of those people go to Hell??

It is clear- Scripture and not some man made church teachings or crafty reinterpretations of Gods Word are the source for our truth and authority,

Now please show your defense that the bible is not our sole authority for all tings doctrinally and how the church should function.

It's not up to me to prove a negative.

The onus is on YOU to show me where the Bible teaches that the Bible is our SOLE Authority. You haven’t done that. ALL of the verses you provided speak to the usefulness of Scripture – but NOT that is our sole Authority.

 

[BreadOfLife]

View attachment 64202

Yes - a LOT of people ignorantly believe that God dropped Bibles our of the sky . . .

Je left us a CHURCH to lead and teach - NOT a Book.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

This is the problem with Sola Scriptura. IF everything we believe MUST come from Scripture – then YOU are a heretic for believing in Sola Scriptura because it is NOT taught.

As I educated you earlier – the Holy Spirit is GOD – and the Scriptures affirm this (John 14:16-18, Acts 5:3-4) . Show me a SINGLE verse that says we should NOT pray to God.

You educate no one. Show me a verse where we are to pray to Jesus (we are to praise and worship HIm), an d show me a verse where anyone prayed to the Holy spirit.

And not ONE of these verses even implies that Scripture is out ONLY Authority.
On the contrary - Scripture itself tells us that the Church is our supreme earthly Authority.

Only as long as it acts in accord with the Scriptures. The church is forbidden to interpret teh Scriptures nor add to teh scriptures new doctrine. The church has authority on how to build a building when to hold worship, how to hold worship etc. but ict cannot add doctrine.

Show me a verse that says the church is profitable for doctrine, reproof, correction and instruction so that a man of God will be completely furnished for all good works.

Matt 16:18-19 / Matt. 18:18
I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. WHATEVER YOU BIND on earth shall be bound in heaven; and WHATEVER YOU LOOSE on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

John 16:12-15
“I have much more to tell you, but you cannot bear it now.
But when he comes, the Spirit of truth, he will guide you to ALL truth. He will not speak on his own, but he will speak what he hears, and will declare to YOU the things that are coming.
He will glorify me, because he will TAKE from what is MINE and declare it to YOU.
Everything that the Father has is MINE; for this reason I told you that he will TAKE from what is MINE and declare it to YOU.

John 20:21-23
Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent ME, so I send YOU.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the holy Spirit. Whose sins YOU FORGIVE are forgiven them, and whose sins YOU RETAIN are retained.”

Luke 10:16
Whoever listens to YOU listens to ME. Whoever rejects YOU rejects ME. And whoever rejects ME rejects the ONE who sent ME."

Abd all these became the Scriptures!

The onus is on YOU to show me where the Bible teaches that the Bible is our SOLE Authority. You haven’t done that. ALL of the verses you provided speak to the usefulness of Scripture – but NOT that is our sole Authority.

I have, but you reject it.

 

[Wick Stick]

No there are legions of "evangelical" scholars. I would suspect you have a very prejudiced view of evangelicals in general.

Yes. So prejudiced that I am in fact an evangelical.

 

[BreadOfLife]

You educate no one. Show me a verse where we are to pray to Jesus (we are to praise and worship HIm), an d show me a verse where anyone prayed to the Holy spirit.

This is precisely WHY I gave you the definition of “Pray”. It means to “ASL”.
However, it ALSO means “to address GOD in WORSHIP”:
Merriam-Webster’s Collegiate Dictionary:
Full Definition of pray
transitive verb
1: entreat, implore —often used as a function word in introducing a question, request, or plea<pray be careful>
2: to get or bring by praying

intransitive verb
1: to make a request in a humble manner
2: to address God or a god with adoration, confession, supplication, or thanksgiving

Only as long as it acts in accord with the Scriptures. The church is forbidden to interpret teh Scriptures nor add to teh scriptures new doctrine. The church has authority on how to build a building when to hold worship, how to hold worship etc. but ict cannot add doctrine.

Soooo, YOU believe that Jesus LIED when He guaranteed (Matt. 16:18) that His Church would not succumb to darkness?

Show me a verse that says the church is profitable for doctrine, reproof, correction and instruction so that a man of God will be completely furnished for all good works.

Jesus IS the Word incarnate (John 1:14). He told the Leaders of His Church:

Luke 10:16
Whoever listens to YOU listens to ME. Whoever rejects YOU rejects ME. And whoever rejects ME rejects the ONE who sent ME."

Abd all these became the Scriptures!

Can you show me where the Bible makes this claim – that EVERYTHING was written down in the Bible?

Chapter and Verse, please . . .

PS – while you’re at it – explain how this is possible when the Bible itself tells us that Jesus did MANY things that were NOT recorded in Scripture (John 21:25).

I have, but you reject it.

Uhhhh, NO.

All YOU did was show where the Bible says that it is profitable for teaching, rebuking, etc. The actual Greek word used here is o-fel'-ee-mos, which means “helpful” or “serviceable”.

NOWHERE dos it say that it is “exclusive" . . .

 

[shepherdsword]

Yes - a LOT of people ignorantly believe that God dropped Bibles our of the sky . . .

Je left us a CHURCH to lead and teach - NOT a Book.

Jesus condemned the Pharisees who help their traditions over the word of God:

Mk 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

is a bit of an oxymoron.

Is an "oxymoron" someone who is addicted to Oxycontin and acts like a moron?

Asking for a friend

 

[BreadOfLife]

Jesus condemned the Pharisees who help their traditions over the word of God:

Mk 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Jesus condemned the Pharisees – NOT for their traditions – but for placing them ABOVE God and nullifying His Word. ALL faithful Jews – including Jesus - practiced and believed in tradition (Matt. 2:23, Matt 23:2, 1 Cor. 10:4, 2 Timothy 3:8, Jude 9).

Not only does the Church NOT place Tradition above Scripture – it introduced the Scriptures to the world. YOU wouldn’t even have a Bible had it NOT been for the Catholic Church . . .

 

[nedsk]

You educate no one. Show me a verse where we are to pray to Jesus (we are to praise and worship HIm), an d show me a verse where anyone prayed to the Holy spirit.


Only as long as it acts in accord with the Scriptures. The church is forbidden to interpret teh Scriptures nor add to teh scriptures new doctrine. The church has authority on how to build a building when to hold worship, how to hold worship etc. but ict cannot add doctrine.

Show me a verse that says the church is profitable for doctrine, reproof, correction and instruction so that a man of God will be completely furnished for all good works.

Abd all these became the Scriptures!

I have, but you reject it.

Matthew 18:15-17. You really need to learn Scripture better before you post.

 

[KUWN]

Not only does the Church NOT place Tradition above Scripture – it introduced the Scriptures to the world. YOU wouldn’t even have a Bible had it NOT been for the Catholic Church . . .

The Core of the Canon was settled in the 1st and 2nd centuries, before the Catholic church was formed. The Muratori fragment show that the core canon (22 or 27 books of the NT) was known to be from the Apostles' teaching. When Peter told his audience that Paul's writings had some difficult teachings in it, Peter didn't find it necessary to qualify the names of Paul's epistles because they were well known during the first century!!

 

[nedsk]

The Core of the Canon was settled in the 1st and 2nd centuries, before the Catholic church was formed. The Muratori fragment show that the core canon (22 or 27 books of the NT) was known to be from the Apostles' teaching. When Peter told his audience that Paul's writings had some difficult teachings in it, Peter didn't find it necessary to qualify the names of Paul's epistles because they were well known during the first century!!

Known and canon aren't the same thing

 

[Wick Stick]

Known and canon aren't the same thing

You might need to define canon. Most Protestants think of canon in terms of "known to be reliable/inspired." I know I do

 

[nedsk]

You might need to define canon. Most Protestants think of canon in terms of "known to be reliable/inspired." I know I do

That's sweet. Since you folks have only been around since the 16th century Ill consider your definition accordingly. However I'll refer you to #2

can·on1
/ˈkanən/
noun

1. 1.
   a general law, rule, principle, or criterion by which something is judged.
   "the appointment violated the canons of fair play and equal opportunity"
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
2. 2.
   a collection or list of sacred books accepted as genuine.
   "the formation of the biblical canon"

Can you name any protestant who was present when the canon was put together into the book you now call the Bible?