Hidden in plain sight: Why I believe this about the Revelation

[Spiritual Israelite]

No need to project some imagined emotionalism. I told you . . . I'm out. I'm not interested.

You're not interested in what? Clarifying what you think about rebuilder 454? Now that he was exposed for being a fake, you want out?

 

[Zao is life]

Amen. And the kind of authority we have over the spiritual enemy is unprecedented and not something that believers had in Old Testament times. Satan and his minions were bound by the death and resurrection of Christ and by the preaching of the gospel through the power of the Holy Spirit.

No. Just because the power in us to overcome the evil one is the power of the Holy Spirit, does not mean we do not need to - as the apostles taught us - put on the full armor of God and be aware of the wiles of the devil "because God has (apparently) "bound him" from going about deceiving the nations".

And the issue I have regarding blasphemy is not with the above but with the implication in your theology and your arguments that if Satan's 'power was not 'bound' , it would render God and the Holy Spirit somewhat less omnipotent to have grown the Kingdom of God by the power of the Holy Spirit of Christ.

IMO it's a blasphemous claim because of what it implies. God remains omnipotent and soevereign and capable of doing whatever He pleases despite how much "power" any created being "thinks" it has, and despite how much power any other created being ascribes to it as having - whether it be Satan and the power you are ascribing to Satan or to any other created being.

I realize that without your above claim - and without a number of other false doctrines used in 'support' of Amil false doctrine - Amil false doctrine and theology will come crashing down - and I realize that this is why you need to insist there is nothing blasphemous about the above claim.

That's why we will never agree.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

No. Just because the power in us to overcome the evil one is the power of the Holy Spirit, does not mean we do not need to - as the apostles taught us - put on the full armor of God and be aware of the wiles of the devil "because God has (apparently) "bound him" from going about deceiving the nations".

And the issue I have regarding blasphemy is not with the above but with the implication in your theology and your arguments that if Satan's 'power was not 'bound' , it would render God and the Holy Spirit somewhat less omnipotent to have grown the Kingdom of God by the power of the Holy Spirit of Christ.

You're not reading what I'm saying carefully at all. I'm saying that is what binds Satan. The preaching of the gospel of Christ and His death and resurrection through the power of the Holy Spirit is what keeps Satan from preventing the word of God to be preached throughout the world as he was able to do in Old Testament times when he held the power of death and was able to keep a vast majority of the world in slavery to the fear of death. As Paul said, the Gentiles in those times had "no hope" and were "without God in the world" (Ephesians 2:11-12) and that was largely because of Satan holding the power of death and being unrestrained in those times. Jesus changed all that.

IMO it's a blasphemous claim because of what it implies.

I'm not making the claim that you think I'm making. Only your strawman is doing that.

God remains omnipotent and soevereign and capable of doing whatever He pleases despite how much "power" any created being "thinks" it has, and despite how much power any other created being ascribes to it as having - whether it be Satan and the power you are ascribing to Satan or to any other created being.

I'm not saying otherwise, so you clearly are not understanding what I'm saying. Just accept that you don't understand my view, for whatever reason, and stop slandering me and my beliefs.

I realize that without your above claim - and without a number of other false doctrines used in 'support' of Amil false doctrine - Amil false doctrine and theology will come crashing down - and I realize that this is why you need to insist there is nothing blasphemous about the above claim.

There is something blasphemous about your strawman's claim, but there is nothing blasphemous about mine.

That's why we will never agree.

You will never agree with your strawman, but I wouldn't rule out you agreeing with me if you ever actually understand my view on this.

 

[Zao is life]

You're not reading what I'm saying carefully at all. I'm saying that is what binds Satan. The preaching of the gospel of Christ and His death and resurrection through the power of the Holy Spirit is what keeps Satan from preventing the word of God to be preached

I've read what you are saying. It's you yourself who isn't reading and thinking about what you are saying about this carefully.

1. The power of the Holy Spirit is what keeps Satan from preventing the word of God to be preached, because God is omnipotent. No other help is needed.

2. This has not bound Satan's ability to to deceive the nations because its the nations who give his words of religious spiritual enlightenment the power it has to deceive them through their believing it - and Christ told all of us in John 3:19 why this is the case.

As he was able to do in Old Testament times when he held the power of death and was able to keep a vast majority of the world in slavery to the fear of death.

They were all in slavery to a death that would have been everlasting until Christ destroyed Satan's power over death, and we would have been enslaved to the same fear of the same everlasting death had Christ not died for us - and this alone is the fear of death that Paul is talking about.

Even when Satan still had the power over death he was not able to prevent Noah from believing or Abraham from believing or Moses from believing or the prophets from believing, or the apostles from believing, nor anyone else who believed - yet all of them would have had the fear of death that you are talking about since it was all before Christ destroyed Satan's power over death by dying in our place and rising again from the dead.

As Paul said, the Gentiles in those times had "no hope" and were "without God in the world" (Ephesians 2:11-12) and that was largely because of Satan holding the power of death and being unrestrained in those times. Jesus changed all that.

The gospel and Christ's victory over death, and the fact that this is what destroyed Satan's power over death forever and ever never did have nor will ever have anything to do with Satan's ability to deceive the nations - because NOT believing the Word of God and instead believing the devil's words of deception is what gives Satan's words the power to deceive.

You are conflating apples with oranges. An apple is not an orange or a fig.

Paul DID NOT SAY what YOU added - that's YOU and Amillennialists adding YOUR false theology TO what Paul said:

As Paul said, the Gentiles in those times had "no hope" and were "without God in the world" (Ephesians 2:11-12) and that was largely because of Satan holding the power of death and being unrestrained in those times. Jesus changed all that.

Satan having the power over death gave Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses and the prophets NO HOPE regarding the everlasting death that Christ got the victory over. THIS INCLUDED ALL THE NATIONS.

In those times God was still omnipotent and Satan held NO power over Him so as to be able to prevent God from bringing about His elect nation. Was Satan so "unrestrained in those days" that he could prevent Sarah from conceiving in her old age?

It's blasphemy to suggest or imply that Satan somehow had power over the omnipotent God "(just) because he had power over death before Jesus took that power away from him.

God did not bind Satan's ability to deceive the nations - in order to do that, God would have needed to "bind" all individuals in the nations from NOT believing Jesus' words AND from believing the devil's lies instead.

IMO the theology you believe really does corrupt the pure message of the scriptures "just a little here and a little there" (an example is the words you added to what Paul said in the above example) in order to get scripture to comply with Amil. Added up it's quite a corruption of the scriptures.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

It's blasphemy to suggest or imply that Satan somehow had power over the omnipotent God "(just) because he had power over death before Jesus took that power away from him.

I am suggesting no such thing. Not at all. You proved once again that you do not understand my view. Just accept that and stop trying to speak for me. You just end up misrepresenting what I believe over and over again.

You, in contrast, seem to act as if Satan having the power of death meant nothing and having it taken away from him had no effect. You probably will disagree with that, but that is how you are coming across. But, hey, who cares if I misrepresent your view, right? You clearly have no problem with doing that yourself, so I'm sure you don't mind if I misrepresent your view.

God did not bind Satan's ability to deceive the nations - in order to do that God would have needed to "bind" all individuals in the nations from NOT believing Jesus' words AND from believing the devil's lies instead.

IMO the theology you believe really does corrupt the pure message of the scriptures "just a little here and a little there" (an example is the words you added to what Paul said in the above example) in order to get scripture to comply with Amil. Added up it's quite a corruption of the scriptures.

You clearly don't even understand my theology since you are constantly misrepresenting it. So, please, just stop commenting on my beliefs as it's a complete waste of time to make strawman arguments.

 

[ScottA]

Now, John writes a great deal about the rise of a beast from the abyss who goes to war against the saints in the days preceding Christ's judgment of the beast and his false prophet, saying things like:

"If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark in his forehead or in his hand, he also will drink of the wine of the anger of God, having been mixed undiluted in the cup of His wrath. And he will be tormented by fire and brimstone before the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever. And they have no rest day or night, those who worship the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name." -– Revelation 14:9-11.

"And all dwelling on the earth will worship it, those whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain, from the foundation of the world." -– Revelation 13:8.

(And if anyone was not found having been written in the Book of Life, he was cast into the Lake of Fire.) -- Revelation 20:15.

Here is the endurance of the saints. Here are the ones who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. -- Revelation 14:9-12.

(But the fearful, and the unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, will have their part in the Lake burning with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.) -- Revelation 21:8.

"And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshiped his image. These both were cast alive [záō] into the lake of fire burning with brimstone." -– Revelation 19:20. (Záō = “living | alive”).

"And the rest [loipoí] were slain [apokteínō] with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh". -- Revelation 19:21. (apokteínō means to put to death, to kill, to slay, to destroy).

"And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the witness of Jesus and for the Word of God, and who had not worshiped the beast nor his image, nor had received his mark on their foreheads, nor in their hands. And they were alive [záō] and reigned with Christ a thousand years." -– Revelation 20:4.

"But the rest [loipoí] of the dead did not live again [anazáō] until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection of the body [anástasis]. Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. The second death has no authority over these, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with Him a thousand years." (Revelation 20:5).

---------------------
THEME: "It is Done!"​

Jesus exclaims, "It is Done!" twice in the Revelation:

The first time is when the seventh and final vial of God's wrath is poured out (Revelation 16:15-17). The second time is when He says,

"And He sitting on the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And He said to me, Write, for these words are true and faithful. And He said to me,

--- It is done ---.

I am the Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the End. To him who thirsts I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely. HE WHO OVERCOMES will inherit all things, and I will be his God, and he will be My son.

But the fearful, and the unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, will have their part in the Lake burning with fire and brimstone, which is the second death." (Revelation 21:5-8)

Conclusions:

1. The two themes: The promises to those who overcome, and "It is done!",

.. are telling us who the Lord is speaking to in terms of which generation this Revelation is ULTIMATELY speaking to.

2. The theme "Blessed is the one who watches and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame." links the lukewarm church to that (above) generation - the churches that will be in existence at the time of the Lord's return. But there will be exceptions expressed by the two (of the seven) churches who were only commended by the Lord for their faithfulness.
​

3. Every event that is recorded in-between the Lord's last direct word to His seven churches and the next time He talks directly to His churches when He exclaims, "Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is the one who watches and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame." (Revelation 16:15) is talking about what will be taking place on this earth during the 42 month reign of the dragon's beast, his false prophet, and their ten kings.

Very good--except for the common error, the result of the "lie" foretold of by Paul that would cause "strong delusion." Which is the timing.

The "lie" is that Jesus' return would NOT be "soon" or "the things which must shortly take place" would instead be in the distant future.

In truth, Daniel's seventieth week, and Mathew 24--and much of the book of Revelation, is rather an overview first foretold and previewed by the seven days of creation, wherein "the daily sacrifice" (Christ) was indeed "taken away." Which would not even now be revealed if it were not time.

 

[Zao is life]

You, in contrast, seem to act as if Satan having the power of death meant nothing and having it taken away from him had no effect.

I never said even once it meant nothing. You are the one misrepresenting my view. As I said before, It had every effect over the fact that through Christ's death and resurrection, He has removed Satan's power over death and hence those who believe in Christ and have been born of His Spirit have passed from death to life.

It had no effect over Satan's ability to deceive the nations - which is what you keep claiming it does, so it proves that I understand your view and you do not understand your own view.

You proved once again that you do not understand my view. Just accept that and stop trying to speak for me. You just end up misrepresenting what I believe over and over again.

You have stated over and over - and over again that Satan's ability to deceive the nations has been "bound" by being "restricted" BY Christ's destruction of the devil's power over death, and before this Satan was unrestrained in terms of his ability to deceive the nations

So either you are misrepresenting your own view and your own theology, or you are just completely confused as to what you believe and what you do not.

You clearly don't even understand my theology since you are constantly misrepresenting it. So, please, just stop commenting on my beliefs as it's a complete waste of time to make strawman arguments.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

And IMO why this is relevant is because one is not considered to have fully overcome until they have endured up until the end of their life or up until Christ returns, whichever might come first in their case. It is not reasonable to argue, like some apparently do, that once you are saved this means you have fully overcome, the fact there is such a thing as falling away after one has been saved, though some interpreters flat out deny this, flat out lie.

Can't fall away. that is biblical.

And if one keeps that endure to teh end in its right context it is about the 7 year tribulation and not having to keep a level of performance up.

The Bible shows in two distinct places that there are many who appear saved but in reality they were never saved.

I ask you this question. How many of your sins did Jesus suffer and die for? All or most.

 

[Zao is life]

Very good--except for the common error, the result of the "lie" foretold of by Paul that would cause "strong delusion." Which is the timing.

The "lie" is that Jesus' return would NOT be "soon" or "the things which must shortly take place" would instead be in the distant future.

In truth, Daniel's seventieth week, and Mathew 24--and much of the book of Revelation, is rather an overview first foretold and previewed by the seven days of creation, wherein "the daily sacrifice" (Christ) was indeed "taken away." Which would not even now be revealed if it were not time.

The prophecy regarding the daily sacrifice being taken away clearly stated that the temple would be cleansed and the sacrifices resumed after 2,300 days. The daily sacrifice was taken away in the days of Antiochus IV Epiphanes, whose defeat is celebrated by the Jews every year in a holiday which they call channukah. The destruction of the city and temple were not connected to the prophecy.

The Daniel 9:27 prophecy stated that the Messiah would cause sacrifice and offering itself to cease, and said nothing about daily sacrifices.

The temple in Jerusalem was not "cleansed" after 70 A.D and the daily sacrifice was not resumed. When Jesus died on the cross, He caused sacrifice and offering for sin to become obsolete forever.

The Revelation and the return of Christ did not occur in A.D 70. That notion is just Preterist gibberish.

 

[ScottA]

The prophecy regarding the daily sacrifice being taken away clearly stated that the temple would be cleansed and the sacrifices resumed after 2,300 days. The daily sacrifice was taken away in the days of Antiochus IV Epiphanes, whose defeat is celebrated by the Jews every year in a holiday which they call channukah. The destruction of the city and temple were not connected to the prophecy.

The Daniel 9:27 prophecy stated that the Messiah would cause sacrifice and offering itself to cease, and said nothing about daily sacrifices.

The temple in Jerusalem was not "cleansed" after 70 A.D and the daily sacrifice was not resumed. When Jesus died on the cross, He caused sacrifice and offering for sin to become obsolete forever.

The Revelation and the return of Christ did not occur in A.D 70. That notion is just Preterist gibberish.

My statement was not meant as a challenge or debate.

If you only look to the world for meaning, that is what you will get. But what is the Temple (spiritually)?

 

[Davidpt]

Can't fall away. that is biblical.

And if one keeps that endure to teh end in its right context it is about the 7 year tribulation and not having to keep a level of performance up.

The Bible shows in two distinct places that there are many who appear saved but in reality they were never saved.

I ask you this question. How many of your sins did Jesus suffer and die for? All or most.

Prove it using the following to do so. Prove that any Gentile that gets cutoff from the good olive tree after having been graffed into it was never saved to begin with, was never a believer to begin with. IOW, prove that a Gentile can be graffed into the good olive tree without having to be a believer.

Romans 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.
15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee .
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off

Do some of you even know what an 'if' typically means? It means there are conditions that have to be met. If a Gentile continues in His goodness, this can never happen to that Gentile---thou also shalt be cut off

Obviously, it can't mean the same thing, that if a Gentile does not continue in His goodness, this Gentile will not be cutoff. The latter is basically mocking God, that even though God says He will cutoff a Gentile that does not continue in His goodness, He never really does that. If He never does that, then why did He even mention it to begin with? What is the point in that?

What I have underlined in Romans 11 above, no intellectually honest person is going to insist, that if that were to happen to a Gentile, they were never believers to begin with, were never saved to begin with. Only a deceiver would insist that since no one would argue to begin with that a Gentile can be graffed into the good olive tree without having to be a believer first. Keeping in mind a believer equals saved.

 

[PinSeeker]

Breaking in just for one thing. I know this was for SI, but he and I agree on this, of course, so by extension it applies to me also:

You have stated over and over - and over again that Satan's ability to deceive the nations has been "bound" by being "restricted" BY Christ's destruction of the devil's power over death, and before this Satan was unrestrained in terms of his ability to deceive the nations

The binding of Satan has already taken place through Christ’s death and resurrection (John 12:31; cf. Colossians 2:15; Revelation 12:9; Matthew 12:29). The present spread of the gospel to the nations, as initiated in Acts, is the result of this restriction on Satan’s power to deceive.

There is no insinuation or inference to be made that God was "impotent" or "lacking in power" to keep Satan from deceiving the nations in any way whatsoever before Christ's life on earth. God has always been completely sovereign; this was His plan from all eternity, His eternal decree... first to the Jews and then to the Gentiles.

The loosing of Satan in 20:7-10 ~ and even in this God is in control ~ is still yet future and represents his final attempt to deceive the nations... and leads to his final defeat.

So either you are misrepresenting your own view and your own theology, or you are just completely confused as to what you believe and what you do not.

So yeah, I'm not sure if SI would agree to any degree with what I said directly above, but there it is.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Zao is life]

How many of your sins did Jesus suffer and die for? All or most.

Jesus died for all of our sins. Does this mean we cannot fall away from faith in the above fact and from faith in Christ and the gospel?

 

[Zao is life]

My statement was not meant as a challenge or debate.

So you were making a false statement and expecting everyone to agree with you or be quiet. Why did you post?

 

[ScottA]

So you were making a false statement and expecting everyone to agree with you or be quiet.

"False" perhaps to those who have been under that foretold strong delusion. But No, what you were speaking of and giving your own answer and understanding of--was sealed (Daniel 8:26)--and not even available during the time of those who have now taught much the same thing for centuries as you now also have stated.

On the contrary, I was declaring what is now unsealed. For confirmation--what does verse 26 say? Does it not also reference the seven days of creation as I have, before the matter was even known or sealed?

 

[Zao is life]

Breaking in just for one thing. I know this was for SI, but he and I agree on this, of course, so by extension it applies to me also:


The binding of Satan has already taken place through Christ’s death and resurrection (John 12:31; cf. Colossians 2:15; Revelation 12:9; Matthew 12:29). The present spread of the gospel to the nations, as initiated in Acts, is the result of this restriction on Satan’s power to deceive.

There is no insinuation or inference to be made that God was "impotent" or "lacking in power" to keep Satan from deceiving the nations in any way whatsoever before Christ's life on earth. God has always been completely sovereign; this was His plan from all eternity, His eternal decree... first to the Jews and then to the Gentiles.

The loosing of Satan in 20:7-10 ~ and even in this God is in control ~ is still yet future and represents his final attempt to deceive the nations... and leads to his final defeat.


So yeah, I'm not sure if SI would agree to any degree with what I said directly above, but there it is.

Grace and peace to you.

You obviously have not been following the conversation or you would know that Revelation 20:1-3 states that Satan will be bound in terms of his ability to deceive the nations - which has not happened because his power to deceive the nations is given to his words of deception by those who believe them (not by God).

Besides this, none of the scriptures you post above are saying anything about Satan being bound in terms of his ability to deceive the nations.

In Genesis chapter 3, we read of how Satan appeared in the Garden of Eden and deceived mankind.
Revelation 12:9 calls Satan "the great dragon" and "the old serpent called Devil, and Satan, who deceives the whole world."
The reason given for Satan being bound in Revelation 20:1-3 is that he should deceive the nations no more until the thousand years have expired.

"And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea." (Revelation 20:7-8).

If we look for statements in the New Testament implying that Satan was bound when Jesus died and rose again, all we will ever find is passages stating the opposite:

Jesus called Satan "the ruler of this world"; and the New Testament calls him "the prince of the power of the air who works in the sons of disobedience", who we are told will give the beast and false prophet his seat, power and great authority (Revelation Chapter 13).

The saints are warned to be weary of his wiles and to resist him, and to put on the full armor of God because "we do not wrestle against flesh and blood" (John 12:31; 1 Peter 5:8-9; Ephesians 6:11-12; Revelation 2:9-10 & Revelation 2:13; 1 Thessalonians 2:18; James 4:7 ).

Ephesians 2:2 tells us about Satan's influence over the societies of this world, this Age.

Revelation Chapters 12-13 portray Satan becoming enraged when he was cast down to the earth because he knows that through Christ's destruction of his power over death, his time is limited. So throughout the chapter and culminating in the beast's war against the saints in the next chapter, you see his activity increasing to such an extent that "woe" is declared upon the inhabitants of the earth and the sea because of this, and this current status quo spans the entire present Age and culminates in the beast's war against the saints in Revelation Chapter 13 (see Revelation 13:7).

In John 12:31 Jesus declares that the world has been judged for its sin and the devil cast out - and Revelation 12:9 shows him cast out and thrown down to the earth.

Colossians 2:15 is talking about the law that was against us being abolished in the flesh of Christ - which law was the very indictment Satan was accusing the brethren with, but they overcame Him by the blood of the Lamb.

In Matthew 12:29 "the house" in Jesus' parable represents the demon-possessed man out of whom Jesus had cast out demons (not "the nations"):

Satan was not being bound for a thousand years and shut up in the abyss so that he was unable to deceive the nations for a thousand years every time Jesus or one of His apostles cast demons out of individuals. Nor was there ever any reversal "for a little season" once an individual been delivered. Besides this, the casting out of demons was taking place before and after Jesus' death and resurrection.

Your Amil arguments have already been dealt with in this thread and the scriptures you bring up have nothing to do with Satan's ability to deceive the nations.

Stop conflating apples with oranges. The destruction of Satan's power over death will last for ever and ever and not only for a thousand years, and it has absolutely nothing to do with his ability to deceive the nations.

 

[PinSeeker]

Prove that any Gentile that gets cutoff from the good olive tree after having been graffed into it was never saved to begin with, was never a believer to begin with.

Wouldn't you first have to prove that any person (Jew or Gentile) can be grafted in can be cut off? We're talking about what Paul says in Romans 11, but this is just after he has written what he wrote in Romans 8, that regarding Christians, "there is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus" and "neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord." So this disproves your premise, which makes any kind of inference you make from it null and void.

IOW, prove that a Gentile can be graffed into the good olive tree without having to be a believer.

Well first, what does it mean to be grafted in, David? If you get that right, then remember what Jesus says to the group of Jews He is speaking to in John 8...

"If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and I am here. I came not of my own accord, but he sent me. Why do you not understand what I say? It is because you cannot bear to hear my word. You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies. But because I tell the truth, you do not believe me. Which one of you convicts me of sin? If I tell the truth, why do you not believe me? Whoever is of God hears the words of God. The reason why you do not hear them is that you are not of God."​

...and also in John 10...

"...you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father’s name bear witness about Me, but you do not believe because you are not among My sheep. My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of My hand. My Father, Who has given them to Me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand..."​

...God says He will cutoff a Gentile that does not continue in His goodness, He never really does that. If He never does that, then why did He even mention it to begin with? What is the point in that?

Well, because it's true; yes, if anyone ~ Jew or Gentile ~ does not continue in His goodness, then he will be cut off. But consider what Paul says in Philippians 2:13 ~ "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure" ~ and what Peter says in 1 Peter 1:3-5 ~ God "has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you, who by God’s power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time."

Grace and peace to you, David.

 

[Zao is life]

"False" perhaps to those who have been under that foretold strong delusion. But No, what you were speaking of and giving your own answer and understanding of--was sealed (Daniel 8:26)--and not even available during the time of those who have now taught much the same thing for centuries as you now also have stated.

On the contrary, I was declaring what is now unsealed. For confirmation--what does verse 26 say? Does it not also reference the seven days of creation as I have, before the matter was even known or sealed?

Do you believe that God's law was made obsolete in the blood of Christ circa 30 Ad or did it wait for 70 A.D to become obsolete?
Do you believe that the temple in Jerusalem was no longer the temple of God, nor was it the holy place from the day the veil in that temple was torn?

If you are a Preterist or Preterist in part then please don't talk unbiblical gibberish to me. Your theology is so full of falsehood it won't end and I do not talk to Preterists or Partial Preterists.

If you are not, then say you are not and I will apologize and answer your questions. Otherwise I will ignore your posts.

 

[Zao is life]

Wouldn't you first have to prove that any person (Jew or Gentile) can be grafted in can be cut off? We're talking about what Paul says in Romans 11

You seem to be unable to compare scripture with scripture and you seem to disbelieve what Jesus says in John 15:6.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I never said even once it meant nothing. You are the one misrepresenting my view.

Well, it doesn't feel very good when that happens, does it?

As I said before, It had every effect over the fact that through Christ's death and resurrection, He has removed Satan's power over death and hence those who believe in Christ and have been born of His Spirit have passed from death to life.

It had no effect over Satan's ability to deceive the nations - which is what you keep claiming it does, so it proves that I understand your view and you do not understand your own view.

LOL. You are pretending as if you know what I believe more than I do, which is a complete joke. No, you do not.

You have stated over and over - and over again that Satan's ability to deceive the nations has been "bound" by being "restricted" BY Christ's destruction of the devil's power over death, and before this Satan was unrestrained in terms of his ability to deceive the nations

So either you are misrepresenting your own view and your own theology, or you are just completely confused as to what you believe and what you do not.

This is a huge waste of time. Just believe whatever you want, but please stop acting as if you understand what I believe when you clearly don't, as evidenced by the fact that you keep misrepresenting my view over and over again.