Who Is The Antichrist? A Biblical Prespective.

[ewq1938]

Correct Johns description of the ac is very much like the land beast also the same as the the false prophet which again is very different than the sea beast or Paul’s man of sin

It's a direct match with the man of sin and the false prophet.

Rev 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

wonders:

G4592
se¯meion
say-mi'-on
Neuter of a presumed derivative of the base of G4591; an indication, especially ceremonially or supernaturally: - miracle, sign, token, wonder.
Total KJV occurrences: 77

deceived:

G4105
planao¯
plan-ah'-o
From G4106; to (properly cause to) roam (from safety, truth, or virtue): - go astray, deceive, err, seduce, wander, be out of the way.
Total KJV occurrences: 39

miracles:

G4592
s?µe????
se¯meion
say-mi'-on
Neuter of a presumed derivative of the base of G4591; an indication, especially ceremonially or supernaturally: - miracle, sign, token, wonder.
Total KJV occurrences: 77


Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received
the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Here we read of the second beast, who performs miracles in the sight of the first beast and performing those miracles in order to deceive the people!



Paul's Antichrist was called the man of sin and he is described as doing the same things for the same reason as the false prophet:

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders

lying:

G5579
pseudos
psyoo'-dos
From G5574; a falsehood: - lie, lying.
Total KJV occurrences: 9

wonders:

G5059
teras
Thayer Definition:
1) a prodigy, portent
2) miracle: performed by any one
Part of Speech: noun neuter
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: of uncertain affinity
Citing in TDNT: 8:113, 1170



"Lying wonders" by the man of sin is the same as "deceiving miracles" by the false prophet.

The false prophet and the man of sin are the same person.

 

[CTK]

Correct Johns description of the ac is very much like the land beast also the same as the the false prophet which again is very different than the sea beast or Paul’s man of sin

Once you get passed the understanding that the term “anti-Christ,” used in only the 4 verses you identified, and that it is meant to convey ANY practice or belief that is different than those spoken if and practiced by Jesus, then you can begin to focus on the ONE person / entity that IS discussed in Scripture as the “evil one.”

Instead of throwing out the generic term of the “anti-Christ” which takes away everyone’s focus on the true individual against God, we should be reading and studying the person revealed in Daniel. God has given us so much in the way to identify this person, his timing, what he does to own this identity, and that this person MUST continue until His return….

Remember, this “little horn” comes after the cross, gains power and must continue —- not arrive at or near His return.

Throw away all the “boogeymen” and supernatural thoughts, the “little horn “ has been here all along and will be destroyed at His second coming.

 

[Marty fox]

Once you get passed the understanding that the term “anti-Christ,” used in only the 4 verses you identified, and that it is meant to convey ANY practice or belief that is different than those spoken if and practiced by Jesus, then you can begin to focus on the ONE person / entity that IS discussed in Scripture as the “evil one.”

Instead of throwing out the generic term of the “anti-Christ” which takes away everyone’s focus on the true individual against God, we should be reading and studying the person revealed in Daniel. God has given us so much in the way to identify this person, his timing, what he does to own this identity, and that this person MUST continue until His return….

Remember, this “little horn” comes after the cross, gains power and must continue —- not arrive at or near His return.

Throw away all the “boogeymen” and supernatural thoughts, the “little horn “ has been here all along and will be destroyed at His second coming.

You should use verses for some of your statements so I know what pert you mean but the point is that there are different demonic beings in Daniel and revelation that have different purposes and different personalities

John describes the AC and the sea beast completely different and even gives them different names for a reason

Daniel chap 10 shows us different demonic beings over different areas

 

[TribulationSigns]

You should use verses for some of your statements so I know what pert you mean but the point is that there are different demonic beings in Daniel and revelation that have different purposes and different personalities

Different demonic beings? Like who?

John describes the AC and the sea beast completely different and even gives them different names for a reason

Again, the beast is the body of those with the spirit of antichrist.

Daniel chap 10 shows us different demonic beings over different areas

Different demonic beings over "different areas"? Explain.

 

[Marty fox]

Different demonic beings? Like who?



Again, the beast is the body of those with the spirit of antichrist.



Different demonic beings over "different areas"? Explain.

It names them the Antichrist the sea beast the land beast also called the false prophet satan also called the dragon

How can a body be was now is not and yet will come? Or be 8 kings or have seven heads? Or even be made up of all the descriptions of the animals?

Read Daniel chapter 10 the prince and king of Persia and the prince of Greece. These fight against the angel and Michael and hold them back for 21 days

 

[TribulationSigns]

It names them the Antichrist the sea beast the land beast also called the false prophet satan also called the dragon

Dragon = The Spirit of Satan

Beast out of the Sea = Unsaved people of the world with the Spirit of Satan

Beast out of the Earth with two horns like a lamb = Unsaved false prophets and Christs of God's congregation with the Spirit of Satan who force everyone within the congregation who does not yet have the seal of God to receive the Mark of the beast to show them being owned by Satan = their spirit for being deceived and believe the lies.

How can a body be was now is not and yet will come? Or be 8 kings or have seven heads? Or even be made up of all the descriptions of the animals?

Talking about the POWER of the beast who was, not is not ( in the time of John, when beast was bind in the bottomless pit), and will come out as the 7th king. King = spiritual kingdom. Not human.

Read Daniel chapter 10 the prince and king of Persia and the prince of Greece.

Do you really understand who is the king of Persia? And of Greece? Do you honestly think God was talking about Cyrus and Alexander the Great here? humm? Were they the one who have held the spiritual Archangel Michael back for 21 days, did they? LOL. No, you need to understand what is KING being spoken of here!

These fight against the angel and Michael and hold them back for 21 days

No, actually, how did Daniel withstand by Prince of Persia for 21 days before Michael (Christ) came to help him?

 

[CTK]

It names them the Antichrist the sea beast the land beast also called the false prophet satan also called the dragon

How can a body be was now is not and yet will come? Or be 8 kings or have seven heads? Or even be made up of all the descriptions of the animals?

Read Daniel chapter 10 the prince and king of Persia and the prince of Greece. These fight against the angel and Michael and hold them back for 21 days

I think we might have a good starting point since the “anti-Christ” identity is behind us in that it certainly represents any and all people who speak a different gospel thsn what Jesus spoke. That can and does point to millions or even billions of folks over the past 2000 years (and still today) who practice or speak or believe in things not of Jesus.

So, if that is the case, then we should begin to be able to identify the TRUE one who has done exactly that- preach a different gospel. And before anyone considers to identify him using any book or passage in the NT, they should spend time and effort studying the most prophetic book in the OT ( Daniel) that speaks of him.

God has indeed spent so much of Daniel speaking about His plan of salvation for the Jews (short term) and mankind (long term) in Daniel. His plan in Daniel is quite transparent about His first coming, His rejection, His cross and the consequences of the actions of His people.

Essentially, after the cross, we find that God will make Himself “desolate” to His people for rejecting their Messiah. This will last until the end of the “time of the Gentiles (so, so close).” The other major consequence is the establishment of His earthly church which will grow exponentially during the first 500 years.. and continue. However, this will also cause the coming of the “little horn.” He will be the one who can clearly be found to preach a very different gospel to the world.

So, I would suggest one put away “today’s accepted interpretations” (which may number at least three), and study God’s word in Daniel BEFORE moving on to the NT.

He will still be there in Revelation and Revelation will not disagree with the one clearly identified in Daniel.

 

[Marty fox]

Dragon = The Spirit of Satan

Beast out of the Sea = Unsaved people of the world with the Spirit of Satan

Beast out of the Earth with two horns like a lamb = Unsaved false prophets and Christs of God's congregation with the Spirit of Satan who force everyone within the congregation who does not yet have the seal of God to receive the Mark of the beast to show them being owned by Satan = their spirit for being deceived and believe the lies.




Talking about the POWER of the beast who was, not is not ( in the time of John, when beast was bind in the bottomless pit), and will come out as the 7th king. King = spiritual kingdom. Not human.


Do you really understand who is the king of Persia? And of Greece? Do you honestly think God was talking about Cyrus and Alexander the Great here? humm? Were they the one who have held the spiritual Archangel Michael back for 21 days, did they? LOL. No, you need to understand what is KING being spoken of here!



No, actually, how did Daniel withstand by Prince of Persia for 21 days before Michael (Christ) came to help him?

It seams that you didn’t even read what I said I’m saying, that they were demonic beings holding back the angels for 21 days not people how did you get that by what I wrote?

I have no idea what you mean or are saying in your last sentence, it was the angel who was held back for 21 days not Daniel once again how did you get that from what I wrote?

 

[TribulationSigns]

It seams that you didn’t even read what I said I’m saying, that they were demonic beings holding back the angels for 21 days not people how did you get that by what I wrote?

I have no idea what you mean or are saying in your last sentence, it was the angel who was held back for 21 days not Daniel once again how did you get that from what I wrote?

First, do NOT get caught up in physical nations or empires like so many other Christians do, espeically trying ot build doctrines upon current events surrounding the possible physical war between Israel and Iran, etc. etc. No, the Bible is about the Gospel and God's congregation. It is NOT about nations specifically.

In God's eyes, the Prince of Medes and Persia represents the UNFAITHFUL RULERS of God's people, who are SPIRITUALLY as these nations. The Prince of Grecia is the kingdom that attacks and overcome and rules Persia as judgment because of her sins against God. Greece's power was broken at the Cross. but in the end of days its power will return as four horns, representing its universal power during the end of days, especially when Satan came out of bottomless pit and had his power restored.

Dan 8:21-27
(21) And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king.
(22) Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his power.
(23) And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.
(24) And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.
(25) And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.
(26) And the vision of the evening and the morning which was told is true: wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many days.
(27) And I Daniel fainted, and was sick certain days; afterward I rose up, and did the king's business; and I was astonished at the vision, but none understood it.

Daniel did not understand it because the vision is way ahead of him in the future to WHEN Satan will be loosed from bottomless pit after the sealing of the Church is finished. This is WHY Christ warned His Saints in Matthew 24:15 that when THEY see the abomination of desolation, spoke of Daniel, whoever READETH, let him understand. They will understand what Daniel wasn't! When we start to understand it, it will NOT be about certain nations or kingdom, but spiritually representing Satan and God's congregation prior to Second Coming.

Therefore, Daniel 8:21-17 is when Satan is loosed and the little horn goes forth AT THAT TIME, for a short period. The Ram (representing congregation of Israel) that the He-goat (Spirit of Satan) breaks the horns (power) of Persia is the congregation during the latter days. Not 70AD.

Dan 8:19-20
(19) And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be.
(20) The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia.

It is a symbolic language like in the book of Revelation. It goes back to the ruler of Persia being those who will rule God's people (The Ram), and at this time, the goat will come with choler against him, and smite the ram and brake his two horns, which is reminiscent of the power of the Two Witnesses of Revelation 11 after they have finished their tesitmony of Salvation. The Prince of PErsia reprsents the evil rules in the God's congregation. They are the false prophets and christs that stand against Daniel, who represents God's chosen, the Elect! Daniel associates this time of great trouble (ie. great tribulation) where the rule of Persia stands against Daniel as a time when Michael (Christ) will stand up for Him (God's people). He will stand up for those who the Prince of Persia has stood against. Selah!

Dan 10:13
(13) But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.

It is a prophecy of the latter days of the abomination of desolation when only Christ will stand WITH the Chosen Children of God, who are stood against by the rulers of Persia. When the goat breaks the horns, the power of the Ram is gone, but Christ is the only one who stands with Daniel, who represents God's servants.

Dan 10:20-21
(20) Then said he, Knowest thou wherefore I come unto thee? and now will I return to fight with the prince of Persia: and when I am gone forth, lo, the prince of Grecia shall come.
(21) But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince.

Christ comes to fight against the ruler of persia, because the ruler is ungodly. No one will stand with the election but Michael, the Prince of Peace. This is why he calls his people to come out of Babylon the Great and guard them while He fight the princes of persia (false prophets and christs) by bringing judgment upon them. Selah!

 

[Marty fox]

First, do NOT get caught up in physical nations or empires like so many other Christians do, espeically trying ot build doctrines upon current events surrounding the possible physical war between Israel and Iran, etc. etc. No, the Bible is about the Gospel and God's congregation. It is NOT about nations specifically.

In God's eyes, the Prince of Medes and Persia represents the UNFAITHFUL RULERS of God's people, who are SPIRITUALLY as these nations. The Prince of Grecia is the kingdom that attacks and overcome and rules Persia as judgment because of her sins against God. Greece's power was broken at the Cross. but in the end of days its power will return as four horns, representing its universal power during the end of days, especially when Satan came out of bottomless pit and had his power restored.

Dan 8:21-27
(21) And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king.
(22) Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his power.
(23) And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.
(24) And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.
(25) And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.
(26) And the vision of the evening and the morning which was told is true: wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many days.
(27) And I Daniel fainted, and was sick certain days; afterward I rose up, and did the king's business; and I was astonished at the vision, but none understood it.

Daniel did not understand it because the vision is way ahead of him in the future to WHEN Satan will be loosed from bottomless pit after the sealing of the Church is finished. This is WHY Christ warned His Saints in Matthew 24:15 that when THEY see the abomination of desolation, spoke of Daniel, whoever READETH, let him understand. They will understand what Daniel wasn't! When we start to understand it, it will NOT be about certain nations or kingdom, but spiritually representing Satan and God's congregation prior to Second Coming.

Therefore, Daniel 8:21-17 is when Satan is loosed and the little horn goes forth AT THAT TIME, for a short period. The Ram (representing congregation of Israel) that the He-goat (Spirit of Satan) breaks the horns (power) of Persia is the congregation during the latter days. Not 70AD.

Dan 8:19-20
(19) And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be.
(20) The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia.

It is a symbolic language like in the book of Revelation. It goes back to the ruler of Persia being those who will rule God's people (The Ram), and at this time, the goat will come with choler against him, and smite the ram and brake his two horns, which is reminiscent of the power of the Two Witnesses of Revelation 11 after they have finished their tesitmony of Salvation. The Prince of PErsia reprsents the evil rules in the God's congregation. They are the false prophets and christs that stand against Daniel, who represents God's chosen, the Elect! Daniel associates this time of great trouble (ie. great tribulation) where the rule of Persia stands against Daniel as a time when Michael (Christ) will stand up for Him (God's people). He will stand up for those who the Prince of Persia has stood against. Selah!

Dan 10:13
(13) But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.

It is a prophecy of the latter days of the abomination of desolation when only Christ will stand WITH the Chosen Children of God, who are stood against by the rulers of Persia. When the goat breaks the horns, the power of the Ram is gone, but Christ is the only one who stands with Daniel, who represents God's servants.

Dan 10:20-21
(20) Then said he, Knowest thou wherefore I come unto thee? and now will I return to fight with the prince of Persia: and when I am gone forth, lo, the prince of Grecia shall come.
(21) But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince.

Christ comes to fight against the ruler of persia, because the ruler is ungodly. No one will stand with the election but Michael, the Prince of Peace. This is why he calls his people to come out of Babylon the Great and guard them while He fight the princes of persia (false prophets and christs) by bringing judgment upon them. Selah!

I didn't mention current events as you assume because I believe that they have nothing to do with Daniel chapter 10

Why would I believe you over believing the bible? The bible states the kings and princes of Persia and Greece because they were demonic beings influencing those nations and their leaders and that it what happened in history

 

[TribulationSigns]

I didn't mention current events as you assume because I believe that they have nothing to do with Daniel chapter 10

Oh yes.... :-)

Why would I believe you over believing the bible?

You shouldn't! I've never asked anyone to believe me, but rather to (as the Bereans) search it out in the witness of scripture themselves.

The bible states the kings and princes of Persia and Greece because they were demonic beings influencing those nations and their leaders and that it what happened in history

Yet, do you understand what God was talking about the princes or kings of the particular nations...spiritually? He is not giving us a geography lesson as if the prophecies will be fulfilled literally by nations or empires. He used these as a type. Just as God used David as a type of Christ. Selah!

 

[Jay Ross]

Paul in Ephesian 6:12 told us that

Ephesians 6:12: - 12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.​

These spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places are the five beasts of Daniel 7:1-12, the first four beasts are described as the four winds of heaven which stir up the sea of humanity and out of the sea four manifested beasts rose up exhibiting the dominate characteristic of the respective beasts, the first beast looked like a Lion, the second looked like a Bear, the third beast looked like a leopard while the four beast looked terrible and strong with the fifth beast being the Little Horn which had eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking pompous words. These beasts and Satan were judged in the heavenly places and the kings of the earth, who had given their armies to the Little Horn were also judged on the earth at the same time and they were gathered together and imprisoned in a pit for many days, that is for 1,000 years, to await the time of their punishment at the end of days. (Isiaih 24:21-22)

As such we should not be looking for a Human entity to be the Antichrist during the Little while period after the Bottomless pit is unlocked after having been locked for 1,000 years.

Sadly, the reformation fathers falsely represented the RCC as a Wicked Beast and the Pope as the Antichrist to justify breaking away from the stranglehold that the Vatican exercised over the churches during the period of the reformation fathers.

They also said that the five segments of the Daniel 2 statue prophecy were with Nebuchadnezzar being the head of Gold, the Medes and Perian Empire being the silver chest and arms, with the Grecian empire being the bronze belly and thighs. The reformation Fathers then said that the Roman Empire was the legs of Iron, and the revived Roman Empire of clay and iron was the fifth segment.

The reformation fathers did not pay any heed to what Jeremiah wrote concerning the fate of the fourth and fifth segment of the statue or that the first king of the north, the Seleucid Empire would cause the Land of Babylon to be devasted and desolated for a period of around two ages around 60 years before the Roman Empire appeared in the Middle East and gained control over the land of Canaan where the nation of Israel lived in and around Jerusalem. In the Seventh Bowl Judgement we are told that Babylon would once more be remembered again before God and that this occurred in 1926 AD when the nation of Iraq was established to have dominion over the Land of Babylon.

Iraq is the fourth segment of the Daniel 2 Statue prophecy with its two legs of iron which represents the two branches of the Islamic religion.

Then in Jeremiah he continues to foretell that another king of the earth during the time that Israel was seeking to reconnect with God that a coalition of Kings with their armies would invade Iraq and gain dominion over the Land of Babylon in 2003.

After the invasion of Iraq this 20-nation coalition broke apart and today the dominate controlling country is the USA.

The Splintered coalition of nations under the leadership of the USA form the feet of the statue prophecy and as such this coalition is the fifth segment of the Statue.

Now in around 2044 AD the Isaiah 24:21-22 prophecy of the judgement of the heavenly hosts and the kings of the earth assembled at a place called Armageddon will take place and they will be gathered together an imprisoned in the Bottom Less Pit for 1,000 years.

After this the events that will take place during the Little while period will occur and end with the Final judgement of the peoples of the earth. One of the wicked heavenly hosts will become the False Prophet and will enter into a solemn covenant with the peoples of the earth and after just three and a half years Satan will come and nullify the solemn entered into by the False Prophet to demand that all the peoples of the earth will worship him and if they do not that they will be killed.

In all reality it seems to me that Satan will become the Antichrist at the end of days, but Christ will capture the Beast the False Prophet and Satan, and they will together be dispatched into the Lake of Fire.

Shalom

 

[Marty fox]

Oh yes.... :-)


You shouldn't! I've never asked anyone to believe me, but rather to (as the Bereans) search it out in the witness of scripture themselves.



Yet, do you understand what God was talking about the princes or kings of the particular nations...spiritually? He is not giving us a geography lesson as if the prophecies will be fulfilled literally by nations or empires. He used these as a type. Just as God used David as a type of Christ. Selah!

But it did happen in history with those nations as shown in the book of Daniel

 

[TribulationSigns]

But it did happen in history with those nations as shown in the book of Daniel

But, but, but.... Sigh...

Please listen with spiritual ears. Not what you learn in "world history" or "secular history."

Let me explain something here. Let go back to the beginning...

The portrait painted here is that Cain is the first unbeliever of God's people, the first "brother" to rise up in the family against the Lord's chosen and slay him. Therefore, Cain is the first of the generation (or family) of evil, the first of the line of those who hate and are offended by the Lord's servants. There would be many more. This is also illustrated in Israel when Christ called those of His people a family of evil or generation of evil. If we consider the mystery wisely, Christ tells us who Babylon is and why all he blood from Abel to his time is required of her.

Matthew 23:31-35

• "Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
• Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
• Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
• Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
• That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
• Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation."

Christ didn't claim that all the blood from Abel to Zechariah would be upon the whole world, a lifespan of first century, or a literal country called Babylon. Christ didn't say that the world were the seed, the family, the generation of them that killed the prophets. Christ didn't say the world was responsible for killing, persecuting, crucifying and scourging the prophets in their synagogues, Christ said perfectly clearly that it was these people, "His people," who were responsible for this, and who did all these things, and who the blood of Abel was upon. Not the world, them--the unfaithful of His own very congregation. The children of those who slew the prophets. That generation or family. They are spiritually Babylon. Not literal Babylon, the first beast you read in Daniel 7, Selah! God is painting a spiritual picture here.

How were "they" responsible for the blood of Abel? Just as Christ explained, they were the children (family) of those who killed the prophets. Even though they protested that they would never do such a thing, Christ knew they had the exact same murderous, wicked heart of their father the devil. Because they have the SAME SPIRIT OF SATAN and that congregation is measured the same as their fathers, and would become a cage of devils. This was all proven of course as they ended up having Christ crucified, fulfilling Christ's Words. They were of that "same" evil generation or family that Cain was of! The whole unfaithful family of Gods congregation (not the world) were the ones killing God's prophets. Read Bible history, it's all right there illustrating that the major antagonists of God's servants were God's own people. The rebellion was brother against brother, Israel against Israel, the Jews against their God. These verses 34 and 35 could have been taken right out of the text of God concerning Babylon, because they are nearly identical. In Revelation 17 and 18 Babylon is the unfaithful congregation, the harlot, "the great whore" which God called Israel again and again. Scripture interprets Scripture. Babylon is a contradiction if it represents the world or literal nation in the Middle East.

Luke 11:47-51

• "Woe unto you! for ye build the sepulchres of the prophets, and your fathers killed them.
• Truly ye bear witness that ye allow the deeds of your fathers: for they indeed killed them, and ye build their sepulchres.
• Therefore also said the wisdom of God, I will send them prophets and apostles, and some of them they shall slay and persecute:
• That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation;
• From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias, which perished between the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required of this generation."

It shall be required of "this family/generation," all of this generation of vipers, all of this evil and adulterous generation or family of Satan (Adulterous since they are betrothed to God). All the Children of the devil, started with Cain, down to the last professed Christian, residing with the Lord's servants and slaying them. They are the ones the church should be wary of, not the world! Not Rome. Not Iran. Not Egypt! The world isn't going to kill the witnesses of the church, it is the people of the church itself, as spiritually Babylon. And why is she called "mystery" Babylon? For the exact reason that so many of the church members cannot see or accept the idea who she is. Secret Babylon because few recognize her as the unfaithful church. They're too busy claiming she's America, Iraq, the world, Rome, the world system, Mecca, London Royal Bank of Scotland, the list is endless, because they have carnal mind! The same one who say that it happend in history with literal nations! But those are all private interpretations. God interprets the harlot as His congregation, His people. So are the beasts of Daniel and Revelation!

Revelation 17:7

• "And the messenger said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns."

Do you honestly think God is talking about a literal nation that carries the church?! If Babylon is a literal nation, empire or the world, who is the Beast with 10 horns (10 kings) that carries her, then? The Messenger of the Covenant will explain what is meant by the symbolism of this great city that is now full of abominations, and the secret meaning, including the beast and horns and rules! But it is a mystery for a reason, it's in symbolism for a reason, just as Christ said of Israel, that seeing they will see and not understand. The "Revelation" of the mystery is for saints who let Scripture interpret Scripture. Cain, Esau, Judas of the Old Testament, and Hitler, Pastor Oteen, Joseph Prince of the New Testament...they're all of the same generation and the blood of the prophets are required both of them, and of these today of that same generation. This evil generation that will not pass until all prophecies are fulfilled! Everyone of THIS generation of evil will be thrown into the Lake of Fire and there will be no more sea of wickedness in New Earth and New Heaven. Selah!

My point is... the beasts of Daniel and Revelation are not what you think God was talking about. They are all types of wicked and unfaithful people of the congregation that comes against Israel of Old and the New Testament.

 

[Marty fox]

My point is... the beasts of Daniel and Revelation are not what you think God was talking about. They are all types of wicked and unfaithful people of the congregation that comes against Israel of Old and the New Testament.

I really don't believe all that you think I believe.

Jesus tells us who Babylon the great is. In the verses below Jesus is clearly addressing apostate Israel

Matthew 23
13 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to. [14] [b]

15 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are.

16 “Woe to you, blind guides! You say, ‘If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but anyone who swears by the gold of the temple is bound by that oath.’ 17 You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred? 18 You also say, ‘If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but anyone who swears by the gift on the altar is bound by that oath.’ 19 You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred? 20 Therefore, anyone who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it. 21 And anyone who swears by the temple swears by it and by the one who dwells in it. 22 And anyone who swears by heaven swears by God’s throne and by the one who sits on it.

23 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. 24 You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.

25 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. 26 Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.

27 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean. 28 In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.

29 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous. 30 And you say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our ancestors, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ 31 So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets. 32 Go ahead, then, and complete what your ancestors started!

33 “You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell? 34 Therefore I am sending you prophets and sages and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town. 35 And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36 Truly I tell you, all this will come on this generation.

37 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing. 38 Look, your house is left to you desolate. 39 For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord

Then in Revelation 18 Jesus shows the fulfillment of verse 35 and even uses the same words

24 In her was found the blood of prophets and of God’s holy people,
of all who have been slaughtered on the earth.”

Jesus also ties Babylon the great to apostate Israel four verses before that​

20 “Rejoice over her, you heavens!
Rejoice, you people of God!
Rejoice, apostles and prophets!
For God has judged her
with the judgment she imposed on you.”

The woman babylon the great city is where our Lord was crusified

Revelation 17
18 The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth.”

Revelation 11
8 Their bodies will lie in the public square of the great city—which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt—where also their Lord was crucified.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Jesus tells us who Babylon the great is. In the verses below Jesus is clearly addressing apostate Israel

You got the wrong Jersualem. Babylon the Great is apostate New Testament Israel, the Church.

37 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing. 38 Look, your house is left to you desolate. 39 For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord

That is talking about the fall of the Old Testament congregation of Israel which is why the kingdom representative was taken from them as a judgment. But this "city" in the first century was NOT Babylon the Great of Revelation 18 as you think!

Then in Revelation 18 Jesus shows the fulfillment of verse 35 and even uses the same words

24 In her was found the blood of prophets and of God’s holy people,
of all who have been slaughtered on the earth.”

Jesus also ties Babylon the great to apostate Israel four verses before that​

Sigh! No... she is apostate Israel since Cain. Pharisees and Scribes were only a part of it and the generation was still going on until the Second Coming which is why the apostate church was included! They all are part of one same evil generation. It did not end in 70AD. Silly.

20 “Rejoice over her, you heavens!
Rejoice, you people of God!
Rejoice, apostles and prophets!
For God has judged her
with the judgment she imposed on you.”

And I am a prophet of God as all True Christians are. Do you even know who the prophet is? It is ANYONE who "declares God's Word" is a prophet.

A prophecy is an utterance from someone inspired by his God. For example, if I say that the Lord said "Thou Shalt Not Commit Adultery," I have prophesied as a prophet. It does NOT have to be a declaration of something future, just a declaration inspired of God (God's word). Do you realize that the corporate church is the house of the prophets of God--but not all are true prophets. Because there are some within that are saying, "thus saith the Lord" and they declare this falsely. They are false prophets (declarers of God's word) that He explicitly and often warned us against.

Matthew 7:14-20

• "Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
• Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
• Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
• Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
• A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
• Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
• Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them."

Fruits are God's way of saying works. It is by their works (not their words or confessions) by which you will know a false prophet. Anyone can "declare God's word" but not everyone can do it with the authority of the Word. For example, "God said this" or "Thus saith The Lord." Anyone can profess with words that they are Christian, profess they are saved, or profess they are following Christ, but it is their fruits (works) that actually give their unfaithfulness away. For example, does a Christian proclaim to be a follower of Christ, and yet place no authority on Christ's words that are testified to him? How then is he a "follower" of Christ? Does a Christian love Christ and yet constantly reject or ignore the witness to His word? Some Christians would say sure, because we are all fallible and so that happens all the time. I world say what God's word says. A tree is known by its fruit. Did the Apostle Peter say to Ananias, sure you acted as a false prophet to sell the spirit but everyone sins and so I receive you as my Christian brother? No, because a tree is known by its fruits. Which is why He also said to his conniving wife, "behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out." The apostles didn't play games with God's word concerning the Spirit and those who confess it and yet abuse it. They told it like it was with none of this false acceptance of those professing Christ as "it's not my place to judge." On the contrary, God has specifically given us the judgment of the word that many in our day have forsaken it and their responsibility to it. Which is why the church is in the mess it is today. The lack of divine judgment.

Job 19:7

• "Behold, I cry out of wrong, but I am not heard: I cry aloud, but there is no judgment."

Isaiah 59:8

• "The way of peace they know not; and there is no judgment in their goings: they have made them crooked paths: whosoever goeth therein shall not know peace."

Isaiah 59:15

• "Yea, truth faileth; and he that departeth from evil maketh himself a prey: and the LORD saw it, and it displeased him that there was no judgment."

Today, these are "just words" in the church of believe whatever you want and I will do the same. Where is the judgment of the prophets of God in the church today? Does it displease The Lord that there is "no judgment" in the church today? Of course it does. Without sound judgment, we will and often do, believe anything.

Sorry about long-winded, but the point is, All Christians, both saved and unsaved, are prophets of God within the congregation. Its the True Christians who rejoice that GOd has judged the unfaithful congregation for the blood of the TRUE prophets. Selah!

The woman babylon the great city is where our Lord was crusified.

Revelation 17
18 The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth.”

Revelation 11
8 Their bodies will lie in the public square of the great city—which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt—where also their Lord was crucified.

I don't believe that it is an earth-shattering explanation since God has, as a rule," always used names of various places for spiritual significations. "Briefly," for the same reason that God uses names of places like Sodom, Gomorrah, or Egypt to signify the rebellious under the judgment of God. For example:

Revelation 11:8

• "And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified."

God is using the names of these cities not to point us to their historical physical locations or the physical city of Jerusalem, He is pointing us to the spiritual disposition of those Biblically historical places. Sometimes wicked cities are juxtaposed against places like Nineveh, or the city of Babylon coming against the city of Jerusalem. Not as a prophecy of a physical attack by one city against another, but as a spiritual portrait of good and evil.

All these cities have a biblical story to tell, and it is NOT the physical location of modern-day cities (even if it exists), rather the cities are "representing" rebellion, obstinance, and wickedness against God and His people. Places like Babylon, Canaan, Assyria, Gog, and Magog, simply symbolize the rebellion that we can see in these cities from searching, reading, and studying through the Bible. They are historical cities that "represented" an uprising against God and/or His laws in a subversion of the will of God. And the vision of their end is always the same. His judgment against that rebellious house. e.g.:

Revelation 16:15-16

• "Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
• And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon."

Armageddon [Har-Meggiddon] (Mountain of Megiddo) isn't a prophecy of the war on the physical mountain of a place called Megiddo (Megiddo was located in a valley). Rather, God is using the biblical name Megiddo because the name literally means assembly, meaning a getting-together, or A rendezvous. In other words, an assembly on the mountain (Armageddon). The war or battle of [Har Magedon] is the report of the battle of the war of the deceived nations. They are spiritually called Gog and Magog, as the church is spiritually called Sodom and Egypt in Revelation. Not to set our eyes on the Physical locations of those cities, but that we might see the spiritual disposition of those cities in Scripture.

This requires spiritual understanding and wisdom in Christ, rather than allowing the carnal mind to interpret through physical cities as Preterists, Premillennialists, and even some Amillennialists do.