Was judas Iscariot used by Satan ??

[Big Boy Johnson]

devil means false accuser and is not the same word as satan.

Still the same guy.

The adversary is the false accuser who told you God is the devil.

The same we'd tried to keep Hiddenthings safe by the word of GOD, as it is written or for it is written, but sadly he too had to be lost.

No, he didn't "have" to be lost.

He chose to not follow God's Word and got lost on his own accord.

Maybe he'll repent someday and quit listening to the adversary who is the false accuser

 

[David Lamb]

First fact: It's possible to have a good Satan (adversary)
Second fact: Devil to mean false accuser is always in the negative sense.

Lets look at Devil

Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers (devil), sober, faithful in all things. 1 Tim 3:11

Here the translators could not use the word "devil" for very clear and obvious reasons!

Applying this approach looking at both words we find:

The meaning of "satan" (adversary) applies to various figures, including:

• God (2 Samuel 24:1; cf. 1 Chronicles 21:1)
• An obedient divine angel (Numbers 22:22)
• Hadad the Edomite (1 Kings 11:14)
• Peter (Matthew 16:23)

The term "devil" (accuser or slanderer) is used for:

• Judas (John 6:70)
• Women (1 Timothy 3:11; cf. Titus 2:3)
• Men (2 Timothy 3:3)
• "Sin in the flesh" (Hebrews 2:14; cf. Hebrews 9:26, Romans 5:21, 6:23), showing that "devil" can be synonymous with "sin," as further supported by Romans 7:17-18.

I could walk you through the true meaning behind every occurrence of these words, but ultimately, that won’t change the deeply held misconceptions you continue to cling to.

Your mind is closed on the matter, and as a result, you're not in a place to be taught.

I agree that the word translated "Satan" means "adversary" and that it is sometimes used in a good way. I would say thatr when it is used as a name it refers to the devil.

 

[Hiddenthings]

Friends, Jesus prayed to the FATHER that He did His best to keep the 12 safe, but sadly one had to be lost.

The same we'd tried to keep Hiddenthings safe by the word of GOD, as it is written or for it is written, but sadly he too had to be lost.

Shalom in the name of Jesus Christ

Sounds noble but if you are ever shown the truth of these matters I'm sure you have the humilty to accept them!

 

[Hiddenthings]

I agree that the word translated "Satan" means "adversary" and that it is sometimes used in a good way.

This is a significant admission, one that other believers here would do well to reflect on, though I fear many won’t

 

[Fred J]

Maybe he'll repent someday and quit listening to the adversary who is the false accuser

May GOD the FATHER of our Lord Jesus Christ, forgive and help him.

Shalom in the name of Jesus Christ

 

[Hiddenthings]

@Fred J @Big Boy Johnson

David Lamb has opened a door for you should you wish to enter.

 

[Fred J]

Sounds noble but if you are ever shown the truth of these matters I'm sure you have the humilty to accept them!

It's difficult to accept your 'twisted' version.

Even Jesus replied to satan by first saying, 'as it is written' or 'for it is written' as according to scripture.

When we too testify, 'as it is written' or 'for it is written', 'entered satan into Judas', you are opposed.

So we don't have anything in common, therefore we only go back and forth in vain.

 

[Hiddenthings]

Agree it is complex. Even if I have any decent points, you are resolved on it. Which means even if I have any valid points, you have already made up your mind. Same as I would have to see it for myself to be persuaded, and right now I don’t see it.

When reasoning together with God consider Romans 9:17-21, “Pharaoh is told for this reason I raised you up, that I might show my power in you, that my name might be declared throughout all the earth

How do you see this working with Pharoah? Did God manipulate his conception? Or is this merely God foreknowing all Pharoah's?

‘Therefore has He mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardens.’
^unless I’ve misunderstood that is widely recognized as not debatable. So much so that we accept if we are chosen unto honour and several of our family members are not shown unto honour but instead unto dishonor. it’s accepted as being out of our hands, no?

Again, because God forekows us He called us etc...

Concerning reasoning together ‘You will say
then unto me, Why does he yet find fault? (Like with Judas) For who has resisted his will? [20] Nay but, O man, who are you that reply against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why have You made me thus? [21] Has not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour <there God has the power to take of the same lump and make a new vessel created unto good works. Again, that speaks of in us all that which is born first is unto dishonor. That born of flesh, is flesh. That which is born of Spirit, is born unto God, unto honor. I get you see “let us reason together” supports men’s persuasion towards God. But the above, and even Jesus Christ who reasoned concerning the cup, it ended with “Your Will be done, Father.”

Are you suggesting that God doesn’t allow for reasoning and that everything is so rigidly preordained there's no room for change? What if, in His foreknowledge, He chose to alter His course, perhaps in response to persistent prayer? The Kingdom of God can be hastened through such prayer. And even though God knows the exact second, do you really believe that moment can’t be moved forward or delayed? God may know the hour, but that doesn’t mean He refuses to engage and work with His creation.

I don’t think God forces His Will onto us.

Agree

That is a stumbling block to me. There has to be a way around God forcing His Will onto us, we reason together. I still am persuaded God chooses.

Ah the struggle! I think God chooses those who are his but they choose also! Must balance the ledger!

I’m still persuaded some are chosen unto honor and some unto dishonor.

God knows all.

We are worried about God not being seen as a gentleman. I do think it can be both He chooses, not us. Yet that doesn’t make Him less of a gentleman.

I wouldn’t use the word “gentleman” to describe Him, His sovereignty and holiness are far beyond our comprehension.

Not a bully. nor a tyrant.

Agree

I’m persuaded He has a plan and it’s perfect. Romans 11:30
For as you in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
Regardless of how someone sees that theology wise…I can see it in my life that through others unbelief, I have obtained mercy through their unbelief. Do I reason with God why some are chosen to be blind, deaf, and dumb…while others receive sight? What should I say to those blinded, so I can be given sight?

All will be revealed in the Day of the Lord - for now it is difficult for most to simple trust.

Yet Paul spoke of those still yet carnal as babes of Christ. They still are fed unto maturity, to be able to bear the meat. Don’t kill(destroy) the little ones for then you so sin against Christ?

Jesus didn’t fail. Jesus already knew Judas was a part of the plan. in fact didn’t Jesus say He purposefully kept all but the son of perdition?

Though Jesus did all he could to dissuade him from going through with it, this clearly points to the presence of free will. When the conception of sin took root in Judas when that adversarial thought entered his mind and he chose to act on it, his fate was sealed.

Personally, I think we may get a shocker of how far God’s Mercy reaches regarding Judas. that is just my opinion. We forget the other’s benefited from Judas falling away.

The record is as clear as any could be regarding the fate of a wayward life, he followed the path of Cain, as many others have done.

 

[Hiddenthings]

It's difficult to accept your 'twisted' version.

Even Jesus replied to satan by first saying, 'as it is written' or 'for it is written' as according to scripture.

When we too testify, 'as it is written' or 'for it is written', 'entered satan into Judas', you are opposed.

So we don't have anything in common, therefore we only go back and forth in vain.

If you actually went back and examined the Scriptural evidence for Satan (Adversary) being a product of Sin's conception in the mind of Judas, you wouldn’t be stuck clinging to pagan ideas of gods.

 

[Hiddenthings]

What’s striking is that nowhere in the Gospels does it explicitly state that a person was possessed by or entered into by an actual being. Nowhere in the entire Word of God is such a being clearly described. All you have is a word—satan—which simply means “adversary” or “false accuser,” and it’s up to you to discern its meaning based on the context in which it’s used.

The very fact that Scripture allows for the existence of a good or positive “satan” reveals a major flaw in your doctrinal framework. My aim is to expose that weakness as fully as possible, so you can see the fleshly, pagan roots embedded in it.

 

[Hiddenthings]

What also is astounding is David Lamb knows and understands this truth about the word Satan and yet he stills maintains this mosters existence even though not once has he provided any evidence to support his belief.

This is what you would expect when false notions are held about the Word of God.

 

[Fred J]

Friends, let's get back to the tread, thank you.

Based on the context of the scripture, Judas already made a deal with leaders of Israel to have Jesus arrested.

i believe he did not know how or when to get this done, until during the supper Jesus fed him and immediately entered satan into him.

Apparently he was 'possessed', not in a trance, but abnormal, when Jesus instructed, he did what he intend to do.

He was like dazzled, because he could've question the Lord in guilt, why and what the reason He calls him to do what he had to do.

Because earlier he did question the Lord by sought of saying, 'Are you referring to me?'

What is your light on this matter, that Judas was possessed in a certain way?

Shalom in the name of Jesus Christ

 

[Fred J]

If you actually went back and examined the Scriptural evidence for Satan (Adversary) being a product of Sin's conception in the mind of Judas, you wouldn’t be stuck clinging to pagan ideas of gods.

You're just haughty continuing being wise in your own conceit, am feeling sorry for you.

Every one who've had conversation with you end up getting tired and bored of you, since you're fruitless.

 

[David Lamb]

Friends, Jesus prayed to the FATHER that He did His best to keep the 12 safe, but sadly one had to be lost.

The same we'd tried to keep Hiddenthings safe by the word of GOD, as it is written or for it is written, but sadly he too had to be lost.

Shalom in the name of Jesus Christ

Jesus didn't pray that the Father would do His best to keep the 12 safe, or that He Himself had done His best to keep them safe. He prayed:

“"Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are. "While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. (not "I did my best to keep them) Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.” (Joh 17:11-12 NKJV)

 

[David Lamb]

This is a significant admission, one that other believers here would do well to reflect on, though I fear many won’t

I would just stress that I also wrote: " I would say that when it is used as a name it refers to the devil."

 

[Hiddenthings]

You're just haughty continuing being wise in your own conceit, am feeling sorry for you.

Every one who've had conversation with you end up getting tired and bored of you, since you're fruitless.

This is the type of response you get when you have nothing more to offer - the well has run dry!

 

[Hiddenthings]

I would just stress that I also wrote: " I would say that when it is used as a name it refers to the devil."

Yes, I saw that, but the burden of proof lies with you to demonstrate how the term "satan" can be used in a positive context, and how "devil" or "false accuser" consistently refers to human beings.

I have supplied the evidence and no doubt you have fact checked all references.

The others are deep in their deception but maybe you are slightly open to truth?

Time will tell

 

[David Lamb]

What also is astounding is David Lamb knows and understands this truth about the word Satan and yet he stills maintains this mosters existence even though not once has he provided any evidence to support his belief.

This is what you would expect when false notions are held about the Word of God.

I never said anything about a monster. Regardless of the word translated "Satan" meaning "adversary", and sometimes being used in a good way, the bible is clear on the existence of God's enemy, called "The evil one," "the devil," and "Satan."

 

[Hiddenthings]

Friends, let's get back to the tread, thank you.

Based on the context of the scripture, Judas already made a deal with leaders of Israel to have Jesus arrested.

i believe he did not know how or when to get this done, until during the supper Jesus fed him and immediately entered satan into him.

Apparently he was 'possessed', not in a trance, but abnormal, when Jesus instructed, he did what he intend to do.

He was like dazzled, because he could've question the Lord in guilt, why and what the reason He calls him to do what he had to do.

Because earlier he did question the Lord by sought of saying, 'Are you referring to me?'

What is your light on this matter, that Judas was possessed in a certain way?

Shalom in the name of Jesus Christ

@David Lamb

Notice how Fred keeps using the word possessed.

Peter was actually a satan, an adversary, to Jesus because his thoughts tried to oppose God’s plan for the crucifixion.

It’s interesting that Fred and others don’t apply this same clear example to Judas. Do they need Jesus to give them the exact same explanation he gave to Peter before they’ll understand?

"But he turned and said to Peter, 'Get behind me, Satan (adversary)! You are a hindrance to me. For you are not setting your mind on the things of God, but on the things of man.'"

Now if Peter like Judas was possessed at that time, what would you expect Jesus to say?

Who would he attribute these words if in fact Peter & Judas were possessed?

See the issue?

 

[Hiddenthings]

I never said anything about a monster. Regardless of the word translated "Satan" meaning "adversary", and sometimes being used in a good way, the bible is clear on the existence of God's enemy, called "The evil one," "the devil," and "Satan."

So your supernatural evil being is not a monster?
The burden of proof is still with you to show this being from Scripture.
Will you try or retreat?