Was judas Iscariot used by Satan ??

[Hiddenthings]

But John 13:26-27 isn't from a Hollywood movie script:

“Jesus answered, "It is he to whom I shall give a piece of bread when I have dipped it." And having dipped the bread, He gave it to Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon. Now after the piece of bread, Satan entered him. Then Jesus said to him, "What you do, do quickly."” (Joh 13:26-27 NKJV)

It doesn't sound a very comical notion, either.

The ideas you're reading into the text simply aren't supported, and deep down, you know it. The logic behind them is laughable.

Jesus clearly understood it was Judas’ own doing, influenced by the pressure the Sanhedrin placed on him to betray his Lord.

You need to prove the "Adversary" here is your Supernatural Monster!

You can't so you wont.

 

[David Lamb]

What exactly entered Judas?

According to God's word, it wasn't a "what" but a "who." John 13:27 says that Satan entered Judas.

Isn’t it striking that there’s only one mention of this in all of John’s Gospel?

Perhaps because it only happened once.

Did Judas lose control, roll his eyes back, and start speaking in a deep, echoing voice, or are we missing the real meaning here?

The bible says nothing about Judas losing control, rolling his eyes, or speaking in a deep, echoing voice. Is anybody suggesting that Judas did those things?

 

[David Lamb]

The ideas you're reading into the text simply aren't supported, and deep down, you know it. The logic behind them is laughable.

Jesus clearly understood it was Judas’ own doing, influenced by the pressure the Sanhedrin placed on him to betray his Lord.

You need to prove the "Adversary" here is your Supernatural Monster!

You can't so you wont.

But apart from the sentences: "But John 13:26-27 isn't from a Hollywood movie script:" and "It doesn't sound a very comical notion, either." my post consisted entirely of a quote of two bible verses. What are you saying I am reading into the text?

I didn't say, and I don't believe, that Satan is some kind of supernatural monster, so why should I want to prove that he is? Rather, I believe what the bible teaches about him.

 

[Hiddenthings]

All right, I'll bite.

Jesus told us to avoid the dangers of this powerful monster through prayer. I thought everyone knew this verse by heart:

ἀπὸ τοῦ πονηροῦ - literally, "from the one who is evil".

Now this is more like it!!

The (translators) did not boldly state “the Evil One” in standard Roman type. Instead, “the Evil” appears plainly, while “one" the crucial part of the phrase is printed in italics. In biblical translation, italics are universally understood to indicate that the word does not appear in the original text. One might rightly ask, “If it’s not in the original, why include it at all?”

The answer lies in the differences between the structures of Greek, Hebrew, and English. Translating word-for-word is often impossible, and at times extra words are needed in English to express an idea that is only implied in the original. In many instances, these additions are so obviously necessary that they’re included without italicization. But in more ambiguous cases like this one where the justification is not as clear, the translators follow a cautious practice by italicizing any added terms that don’t have a direct counterpart in the original language.

This particular phrase is surrounded by scholarly debate. Authorities are divided, with as much scholarly support for the traditional reading “deliver us from evil” as for the newer rendering “the Evil One.” In fact, the Revisers themselves seem to acknowledge the uncertainty: not only do they italicize the critical added word, but they also include a margin note offering “evil” as an equally valid alternative.

In summary, the revised translation is far from settled. Even those responsible for it have left room for the reader to choose, making it clear that this is a matter of interpretation rather than certainty.

Here is the TN from the NET

tn The term πονηροῦ (ponērou) may be understood as specific and personified, referring to the devil, or possibly as a general reference to evil. It is most likely personified since it is articular (τοῦ πονηροῦ, tou ponērou). Cf. also “the evildoer” in 5:39, which is the same construction.

See how easy it is to force ideas into the text where they don’t actually exist? If even the translators are uncertain—and the Scriptures already offer a clear precedent—why alter the text at all?

I think you would agree it's a weak text overall.

But thanks

 

[Hiddenthings]

I didn't say, and I don't believe, that Satan is some kind of supernatural monster, so why should I want to prove that he is? Rather, I believe what the bible teaches about him.

Which is....?

 

[Hiddenthings]

According to God's word, it wasn't a "what" but a "who." John 13:27 says that Satan entered Judas.

What lies behind the word "Satan" in your view cannot be proven, it’s merely the product of human imagination, passed down through generations. Yet, for some reason, you’ve blindly accepted these inherited ideas and claimed them as your own.

Only once in Johns Gospel is this word used and nowhere does it convey the concepts you attach to it.

@Lambano

Which is the supposed superhuman being, Satan or the Devil? In John 13:2, we're told the devil put the idea of betrayal into Judas’ heart, but later, after receiving the sop, Satan entered into him (John 13:27). Does Satan enter someone already under the influence of the devil? Consider also Jesus’ words: “Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?”

The distinction between “the devil” in John 13:2 and “Satan” in John 13:27 may suggest that the initial thought was introduced through some emissary of the chief priests. The reference to Satan entering Judas could indicate a full surrender to sin. This aligns with John 12:6, which shows Judas’ decline began long before the betrayal: “He was a thief and had the money bag.”

“Satan hath desired you [plural]” (Luke 22:31) may indicate that the chief priests were seeking more than one of the disciples to use for their own purposes, or possibly that they were considering arresting the entire group of disciples.

In Acts 5:3-4, Peter asks Ananias, "Why hath Satan filled thine heart...?" The following verse clarifies: "Why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart?" This suggests that when a person willingly gives themselves over to sin, it is described as Satan (the adversary) entering their heart.

The above needs to be addressed Lambano and we both know David Lamb cannot provide any evidence for his super human person possessing agent of evil!

The Word of God offers ample evidence that Satan represents the sin Judas allowed to enter his heart, an influence undoubtedly planted there by the high priest and his associates.

 

[David Lamb]

What lies behind the word "Satan" in your view cannot be proven, it’s merely the product of human imagination, passed down through generations. Yet, for some reason, you’ve blindly accepted these inherited ideas and claimed them as your own.

Only once in Johns Gospel is this word used and nowhere does it convey the concepts you attach to it.

@Lambano

Which is the supposed superhuman being, Satan or the Devil? In John 13:2, we're told the devil put the idea of betrayal into Judas’ heart, but later, after receiving the sop, Satan entered into him (John 13:27). Does Satan enter someone already under the influence of the devil? Consider also Jesus’ words: “Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?”

The distinction between “the devil” in John 13:2 and “Satan” in John 13:27 may suggest that the initial thought was introduced through some emissary of the chief priests. The reference to Satan entering Judas could indicate a full surrender to sin. This aligns with John 12:6, which shows Judas’ decline began long before the betrayal: “He was a thief and had the money bag.”

“Satan hath desired you [plural]” (Luke 22:31) may indicate that the chief priests were seeking more than one of the disciples to use for their own purposes, or possibly that they were considering arresting the entire group of disciples.

In Acts 5:3-4, Peter asks Ananias, "Why hath Satan filled thine heart...?" The following verse clarifies: "Why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart?" This suggests that when a person willingly gives themselves over to sin, it is described as Satan (the adversary) entering their heart.

The above needs to be address Lambano and we both know David Lamb cannot provide any evidence for his super human person possessing agent of evil!

The Word of God offers ample evidence that Satan represents the sin Judas allowed to enter his heart, an influence undoubtedly planted there by the high priest and his associates.

The actual name Satan occurs 48 times in the bible. In other places he is called the devil, and sometimes other names too. We have the account of Jesus being tempted in the wilderness. That is enough to show me that Jesus certainly didn't view Satan as the act of a person willingly giving themselves over to sin. It also shows that Satan = the devil:

“Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. And when He had fasted forty days and forty nights, afterward He was hungry. Now when the tempter came to Him, he said, "If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread." But He answered and said, "It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.’" Then the devil took Him up into the holy city, set Him on the pinnacle of the temple, and said to Him, "If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down. For it is written: ‘He shall give His angels charge over you,’ and, ‘In [their] hands they shall bear you up, Lest you dash your foot against a stone.’" Jesus said to him, "It is written again, ‘You shall not tempt the LORD your God.’" Again, the devil took Him up on an exceedingly high mountain, and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. And he said to Him, "All these things I will give You if You will fall down and worship me." Then Jesus said to him, "Away with you, Satan! For it is written, ‘You shall worship the LORD your God, and Him only you shall serve.’" Then the devil left Him, and behold, angels came and ministered to Him.” (Mt 4:1-11 NKJV)

 

[Hiddenthings]

The actual name Satan occurs 48 times in the bible. In other places he is called the devil, and sometimes other names too. We have the account of Jesus being tempted in the wilderness. That is enough to show me that Jesus certainly didn't view Satan as the act of a person willingly giving themselves over to sin. It also shows that Satan = the devil:

“Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. And when He had fasted forty days and forty nights, afterward He was hungry. Now when the tempter came to Him, he said, "If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread." But He answered and said, "It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.’" Then the devil took Him up into the holy city, set Him on the pinnacle of the temple, and said to Him, "If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down. For it is written: ‘He shall give His angels charge over you,’ and, ‘In [their] hands they shall bear you up, Lest you dash your foot against a stone.’" Jesus said to him, "It is written again, ‘You shall not tempt the LORD your God.’" Again, the devil took Him up on an exceedingly high mountain, and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. And he said to Him, "All these things I will give You if You will fall down and worship me." Then Jesus said to him, "Away with you, Satan! For it is written, ‘You shall worship the LORD your God, and Him only you shall serve.’" Then the devil left Him, and behold, angels came and ministered to Him.” (Mt 4:1-11 NKJV)

First fact: It's possible to have a good Satan (adversary)
Second fact: Devil to mean false accuser is always in the negative sense.

Lets look at Devil

Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers (devil), sober, faithful in all things. 1 Tim 3:11

Here the translators could not use the word "devil" for very clear and obvious reasons!

Applying this approach looking at both words we find:

The meaning of "satan" (adversary) applies to various figures, including:

• God (2 Samuel 24:1; cf. 1 Chronicles 21:1)
• An obedient divine angel (Numbers 22:22)
• Hadad the Edomite (1 Kings 11:14)
• Peter (Matthew 16:23)

The term "devil" (accuser or slanderer) is used for:

• Judas (John 6:70)
• Women (1 Timothy 3:11; cf. Titus 2:3)
• Men (2 Timothy 3:3)
• "Sin in the flesh" (Hebrews 2:14; cf. Hebrews 9:26, Romans 5:21, 6:23), showing that "devil" can be synonymous with "sin," as further supported by Romans 7:17-18.

I could walk you through the true meaning behind every occurrence of these words, but ultimately, that won’t change the deeply held misconceptions you continue to cling to.

Your mind is closed on the matter, and as a result, you're not in a place to be taught.

 

[Hiddenthings]

The actual name Satan occurs 48 times in the bible. In other places he is called the devil, and sometimes other names too. We have the account of Jesus being tempted in the wilderness. That is enough to show me that Jesus certainly didn't view Satan as the act of a person willingly giving themselves over to sin. It also shows that Satan = the devil:

“Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. And when He had fasted forty days and forty nights, afterward He was hungry. Now when the tempter came to Him, he said, "If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread." But He answered and said, "It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.’" Then the devil took Him up into the holy city, set Him on the pinnacle of the temple, and said to Him, "If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down. For it is written: ‘He shall give His angels charge over you,’ and, ‘In [their] hands they shall bear you up, Lest you dash your foot against a stone.’" Jesus said to him, "It is written again, ‘You shall not tempt the LORD your God.’" Again, the devil took Him up on an exceedingly high mountain, and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. And he said to Him, "All these things I will give You if You will fall down and worship me." Then Jesus said to him, "Away with you, Satan! For it is written, ‘You shall worship the LORD your God, and Him only you shall serve.’" Then the devil left Him, and behold, angels came and ministered to Him.” (Mt 4:1-11 NKJV)

Here’s a clear example:

You simply copied the text, pointed out a few words, and assumed that was enough to define who or what the tempter was. It’s a presumptuous way to read Scripture and it does little to bring you any closer to the truth.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

It's a complex subject one theologians have been debating for centuries. He is able to work with our descisions, whether good or evil.

Agree it is complex. Even if I have any decent points, you are resolved on it. Which means even if I have any valid points, you have already made up your mind. Same as I would have to see it for myself to be persuaded, and right now I don’t see it.

Isaiah 1:18 (ESV): “Come now, let us reason together, says the Lord: though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red like crimson, they shall become like wool.”

When reasoning together with God consider Romans 9:17-21, “Pharaoh is told for this reason I raised you up, that I might show my power in you, that my name might be declared throughout all the earth

‘Therefore has He mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardens.’
^unless I’ve misunderstood that is widely recognized as not debatable. So much so that we accept if we are chosen unto honour and several of our family members are not shown unto honour but instead unto dishonor. it’s accepted as being out of our hands, no?

Concerning reasoning together ‘You will say
then unto me, Why does he yet find fault? (Like with Judas) For who has resisted his will? [20] Nay but, O man, who are you that reply against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why have You made me thus? [21] Has not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour <there God has the power to take of the same lump and make a new vessel created unto good works. Again, that speaks of in us all that which is born first is unto dishonor. That born of flesh, is flesh. That which is born of Spirit, is born unto God, unto honor. I get you see “let us reason together” supports men’s persuasion towards God. But the above, and even Jesus Christ who reasoned concerning the cup, it ended with “Your Will be done, Father.”

He provides the opportunity and never will He force His Will onto us! He just isn't that type of God. He provides the wisdom for us to discern the difference.

I don’t think God forces His Will onto us. That is a stumbling block to me. There has to be a way around God forcing His Will onto us, we reason together. I still am persuaded God chooses. I’m still persuaded some are chosen unto honor and some unto dishonor. We are worried about God not being seen as a gentleman. I do think it can be both He chooses, not us. Yet that doesn’t make Him less of a gentleman. Not a bully. nor a tyrant. I’m persuaded He has a plan and it’s perfect. Romans 11:30
For as you in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
Regardless of how someone sees that theology wise…I can see it in my life that through others unbelief, I have obtained mercy through their unbelief. Do I reason with God why some are chosen to be blind, deaf, and dumb…while others receive sight? What should I say to those blinded, so I can be given sight?

Hebrews 5:14: "But solid food is for the mature, for those who have their powers of discernment trained by constant practice to distinguish good from evil."

Yet Paul spoke of those still yet carnal as babes of Christ. They still are fed unto maturity, to be able to bear the meat. Don’t kill(destroy) the little ones for then you so sin against Christ?

Judas chose not to discern between right and wrong and ultimately paid the highest price. One could argue that Jesus did everything he could to dissuade Judas from carrying out his plan. In fact, the act of reaching out the bread could be seen as Jesus saying, “Come now, let us reason together.”

Jesus didn’t fail. Jesus already knew Judas was a part of the plan. in fact didn’t Jesus say He purposefully kept all but the son of perdition?

But Judas turned away, and it was night.

Personally, I think we may get a shocker of how far God’s Mercy reaches regarding Judas. that is just my opinion. We forget the other’s benefited from Judas falling away.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

God is referred to as Satan in 1 Chronicles 21:1 cmp 2 Samuel 24:1 so I guess you are right LOL

Wow is your understanmd ng limited. Satan provoked David, God was angered with Israel and told David to number them, through the provocation of Satan.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

What exactly entered Judas?

WHAT part of "Then entered satan into Judas" did you have a problem understanding?

Luke 22:3
Then entered satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve

Jesus specifically said satan entered in to Judas.

Too bad some folks can't simply accept what Jesus says.

Did you watch Poltergeist when you were young?

Did you watch The Dukes of Hazzard when you were young?

All right, I'll bite.

Jesus told us to avoid the dangers of this powerful monster through prayer. I thought everyone knew this verse by heart:

Maybe this guy enjoys demonic stuff

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

First fact: It's possible to have a good satan (adversary)

It's not a fact, but those listening and serving the devil would think that the devil is good.

The meaning of "satan" (adversary) applies to various figures, including:

• God (2 Samuel 24:1; cf. 1 Chronicles 21:1)

Woe unto those that call good evil and evil good.

Claiming God is the devil is a new low.

Your mind is closed on the matter, and as a result, you're not in a place to be taught.

Yes, my mind is in fact closed to being taught doctrines of demons

But you enjoy you some devil doctrine now ya hear!

You can find the devil and his demons under my feet!

 

[Hiddenthings]

I'm interested to see if @David Lamb responds. The other responses are just lacking in any understanding at all on the subject.

@VictoryinJesus I'll certainly come back to your insighful comments when I have time.

 

[Fred J]

The notions you apply are comical - an entity taking possession of a person at will.

You have been watching too many Hollywood movies!

Looks like you're the possess servant of the serpent, covering up deceiving us there's no possession, as he's a liar.

 

[Hiddenthings]

Wow is your understanmd ng limited. Satan provoked David, God was angered with Israel and told David to number them, through the provocation of Satan.

Ron, you must be the only one!

 

[Fred J]

I'm interested to see if @David Lamb responds. The other responses are just lacking in any understanding at all on the subject.

@VictoryinJesus I'll certainly come back to your insighful comments when I have time.

Don't flatter yourself, very soon you'll be shipwrecked.

 

[Hiddenthings]

Looks like you're the possess servant of the serpent, covering up deceiving us there's no possession, as he's a liar.

More of the same - if you are going to reply add some substance - an insight or two otherwise don't push the button!

 

[Hiddenthings]

Woe unto those that call good evil and evil good.

Claiming God is the devil is a new low.

You mean satan right? it means adversary - if you can't keep up take a long break, hydrate and re-enter the race!

devil means false accuser and is not the same word as satan.

Read the Bible carefully Big Boy!

 

[Fred J]

Friends, Jesus prayed to the FATHER that He did His best to keep the 12 safe, but sadly one had to be lost.

The same we'd tried to keep Hiddenthings safe by the word of GOD, as it is written or for it is written, but sadly he too had to be lost.

Shalom in the name of Jesus Christ