IS THE RAPTURE BEFORE THE TRIBULATION?

[Scott Downey]

Here is more proof that God's people are on the earth when Satan is revealed to the world, and God's people are some from every nation, as Revelation 7 so says about the Christians who go through the great tribulation.

Revelation 12
7 And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, 8 but they [a]did not prevail, nor was a place found for [b]them in heaven any longer. 9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

10 Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down.

11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death.

12 Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.”

 

[Scott Downey]

At least God limits the time Satan has...else no (Christians)flesh would be saved
Again, implying that, indeed some survive the great tribulation.

Matthew 24:22
And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.

 

[David in NJ]

If you will not listen to reason, then yes , apply your formula.

Just keep in mind that In any investigation, going with impossibilities, that could have been noted and shelved , brings you into a rabbit trail 100%of the time.
Postrib rapture is a excellent example of ignoring the impossible.

Once the impossibilities are on the table, the debate is over

God's Foundation & Formula

Every word of God is pure;
He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him.
Do not add to His words,
Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar. - Proverbs 30:5-6

 

[Scott Downey]

Here is more proof of a post trib rapture, although more indirect.
Written to a gentile church about the coming of the Lord.
"Then we who are alive and remain", in other words, then we who remain alive, as in survived until the coming of the Lord.

Paul is using some interesting phrasing here, and it agrees with all the other things he taught about the return of Christ.

1 Thess 4

The Comfort of Christ’s Coming​

13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen [b]asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who [c]sleep in Jesus.

15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are [d]asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

 

[keithr]

I have heard every angle there is and it is always man-made reasons that are not in scripture.

Post the 3 reasons and you will SEE when compared to scripture.

All the reasons and arguments in the video are based on Scripture. I urge you to watch it, but like leading a horse to water, I can't make you drink it!

One verse that is mentioned in the video is Jesus saying, Luke 21:36 (WEB):

(36) Therefore be watchful all the time, praying that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will happen, and to stand before the Son of Man.”​

[FYI, about the author of the video:

Jimmy Evans is a long-time pastor, Bible teacher, and best-selling author. He is the Founder and President of XO Marriage, a ministry devoted to helping couples thrive in strong and fulfilling marriages.​

​

For 30 years, Jimmy ministered as Senior Pastor of Trinity Fellowship Church in Amarillo, Texas, where he now serves as Apostolic Elder. During his time as senior pastor the church grew from 900 to over 10,000 members. Jimmy loves mentoring pastors and helping local churches grow to reach their potential. He is a popular speaker at churches and leadership conferences across America.​

​

Jimmy has written more than 18 books including Marriage on the Rock, The Four Laws of Love, 21 Day Inner Healing Journey, and Tipping Point.]​

 

[Scott Downey]

All the reasons and arguments in the video are based on Scripture. I urge you to watch it, but like leading a horse to water, I can't make you drink it!

One verse that is mentioned in the video is Jesus saying, Luke 21:36 (WEB):

(36) Therefore be watchful all the time, praying that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will happen, and to stand before the Son of Man.”​

[FYI, about the author of the video:

Jimmy Evans is a long-time pastor, Bible teacher, and best-selling author. He is the Founder and President of XO Marriage, a ministry devoted to helping couples thrive in strong and fulfilling marriages.​

​

For 30 years, Jimmy ministered as Senior Pastor of Trinity Fellowship Church in Amarillo, Texas, where he now serves as Apostolic Elder. During his time as senior pastor the church grew from 900 to over 10,000 members. Jimmy loves mentoring pastors and helping local churches grow to reach their potential. He is a popular speaker at churches and leadership conferences across America.​

​

Jimmy has written more than 18 books including Marriage on the Rock, The Four Laws of Love, 21 Day Inner Healing Journey, and Tipping Point.]​

"Therefore be watchful all the time, praying that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will happen, and to stand before the Son of Man.”

What your posting there is personal and individual, not corporate, as in for everybody though.

One way to escape is by dying.
And God uses that as a means of escape for the righteous
Dying for them is gain, as Paul said, for me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.

Isaiah 57

New King James Version

1 The righteous perishes,
And no man takes it to heart;
Merciful men are taken away,
While no one considers
That the righteous is taken away from [a]evil.
2 He shall enter into peace;
They shall rest in their beds,
Each one walking in his uprightness.

 

[David in NJ]

All the reasons and arguments in the video are based on Scripture. I urge you to watch it, but like leading a horse to water, I can't make you drink it!

One verse that is mentioned in the video is Jesus saying, Luke 21:36 (WEB):

(36) Therefore be watchful all the time, praying that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will happen, and to stand before the Son of Man.”​

[FYI, about the author of the video:

Jimmy Evans is a long-time pastor, Bible teacher, and best-selling author. He is the Founder and President of XO Marriage, a ministry devoted to helping couples thrive in strong and fulfilling marriages.​

​

For 30 years, Jimmy ministered as Senior Pastor of Trinity Fellowship Church in Amarillo, Texas, where he now serves as Apostolic Elder. During his time as senior pastor the church grew from 900 to over 10,000 members. Jimmy loves mentoring pastors and helping local churches grow to reach their potential. He is a popular speaker at churches and leadership conferences across America.​

​

Jimmy has written more than 18 books including Marriage on the Rock, The Four Laws of Love, 21 Day Inner Healing Journey, and Tipping Point.]​

Thank You @keithr,
The KEY is to believe all that God has spoken.

Did not the Jews base their decision to crucify the Lord on scripture......

Satan uses scripture to deceive = Matthew 4:5

Then the devil took Him to the holy city and set Him on the pinnacle of the temple.
“If You are the Son of God,” he said, “throw Yourself down. For it is written:
‘He will command His angels concerning You,
and they will lift You up in their hands,
so that You will not strike Your foot
against a stone.’”

 

[David in NJ]

Well said brethren, and don't take my word for it, do the study, and discuss part by part.

Shalom in the name of Jesus Christ.

i read your post two times and will read it a 3rd time today.

There are things the Lord said of His Second Coming that are in the Gospel and i will post for you later.

 

[David in NJ]

"Therefore be watchful all the time, praying that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will happen, and to stand before the Son of Man.”

What your posting there is personal and individual, not corporate, as in for everybody though.

One way to escape is by dying.
And God uses that as a means of escape for the righteous
Dying for them is gain, as Paul said, for me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.

Isaiah 57

New King James Version

1 The righteous perishes,
And no man takes it to heart;
Merciful men are taken away,
While no one considers
That the righteous is taken away from [a]evil.
2 He shall enter into peace;
They shall rest in their beds,
Each one walking in his uprightness.

What shall I render to the Lord
For all His benefits toward me?
I will take up the cup of salvation,
And call upon the name of the Lord.
I will pay my vows to the Lord
Now in the presence of all His people.
Precious in the sight of the Lord
Is the death of His saints. - Psalm 116:12-15

 

[keithr]

"Therefore be watchful all the time, praying that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will happen, and to stand before the Son of Man.”

What your posting there is personal and individual, not corporate, as in for everybody though.

Jesus was talking about the coming Great Tribulation - Luke 21:25-26 (WEB):

(25) There will be signs in the sun, moon, and stars; and on the earth anxiety of nations, in perplexity for the roaring of the sea and the waves;​

(26) men fainting for fear, and for expectation of the things which are coming on the world: for the powers of the heavens will be shaken.​

While Jesus at that time did not know the exact date as to when that would happen, I'm sure he knew that it was a long way off (around 2,000+ years), so I don't see this as a personal instruction to the disciples he was speaking to (who would not live anywhere near long enough to be able to observe the foretold signs).

One way to escape is by dying.

Jesus told them to pray that they would be "counted worthy to escape", not to simple pray that they would die before the Great Tribulation starts.

2 Thessalonians 1:11 (WEB):

(11) To this end we also pray always for you, that our God may count you worthy of your calling, and fulfill every desire of goodness and work of faith, with power;​

Jesus said, Luke 20:35 (WEB):

(35) But those who are considered worthy to attain to that age and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage.​

Zephaniah 2:1-3 (WEB):

(1) Gather yourselves together, yes, gather together, you nation that has no shame,​

(2) before the appointed time when the day passes as the chaff, before the fierce anger of Yahweh comes on you, before the day of Yahweh’s anger comes on you.​

(3) Seek Yahweh, all you humble of the land, who have kept his ordinances. Seek righteousness. Seek humility. It may be that you will be hidden in the day of Yahweh’s anger.​

 

[Scott Downey]

Jesus was talking about the coming Great Tribulation - Luke 21:25-26 (WEB):

(25) There will be signs in the sun, moon, and stars; and on the earth anxiety of nations, in perplexity for the roaring of the sea and the waves;​

(26) men fainting for fear, and for expectation of the things which are coming on the world: for the powers of the heavens will be shaken.​

While Jesus at that time did not know the exact date as to when that would happen, I'm sure he knew that it was a long way off (around 2,000+ years), so I don't see this as a personal instruction to the disciples he was speaking to (who would not live anywhere near long enough to be able to observe the foretold signs).


Jesus told them to pray that they would be "counted worthy to escape", not to simple pray that they would die before the Great Tribulation starts.

2 Thessalonians 1:11 (WEB):

(11) To this end we also pray always for you, that our God may count you worthy of your calling, and fulfill every desire of goodness and work of faith, with power;​

Jesus said, Luke 20:35 (WEB):

(35) But those who are considered worthy to attain to that age and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage.​

Zephaniah 2:1-3 (WEB):

(1) Gather yourselves together, yes, gather together, you nation that has no shame,​

(2) before the appointed time when the day passes as the chaff, before the fierce anger of Yahweh comes on you, before the day of Yahweh’s anger comes on you.​

(3) Seek Yahweh, all you humble of the land, who have kept his ordinances. Seek righteousness. Seek humility. It may be that you will be hidden in the day of Yahweh’s anger.​

Dying is just one way of escape from tribulation.

Instructions to the disciples would be the same for us today, as the great tribulation is still future.
So yes, Jesus taught His disciples these things, and yes, they still inform us today about the state of this world.
Just as good for us it is today as for them back then.