HIDDEN IN PLAIN SIGHT: Why I believe this about the timing of the NHNE

[Zao is life]

The thousand years begins when Christ begins to reign and when Satan is bound, right?

We are not living in the ages of the ages now. Scripture teaches that Christ rose again from the dead and He is now alive to the ages of the ages. Scripture teaches that He has been given a name above all names and has been given all authority in heaven and on earth, and scripture - the part you always ignore and never quote - teaches that though all things have already been placed under His feet, for now we do not see it yet,

and scripture teaches that when He returns He will begin to reign to the ages of the ages - and this is linked to Satan being bound from being able to deceive the nations for the first thousand years of the ages of the ages.

We are not living in the ages of the ages yet. Your ignorance (which comes from ignoring, in your case) of this fact is the basis of your fallacy regarding the binding of Satan.

Matthew 28:18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

Ephesians 1:19 and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is the same as the mighty strength 20 he exerted when he raised Christ from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, 21 far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every name that is invoked, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. 22 And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, 23 which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.

Do you believe you are in Christ's kingdom right now? I know I am.

"Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him." 1 Corinthains 2:9.

The Kingdom of Christ is in you if Christ is in you. He will begin to reign to the ages of the ages when He returns because we are not living in the ages of the ages yet. if we were He would have returned, and those of us who are in His Kingdom now would all have been resurrected from the dead already. The binding of Satan is associated - as you correctly pointed out - to the time when He begins to reign until the ages of the ages IN the ages of the ages - when He has returned.

 

[Zao is life]

Before Jesus came, there was virtually no spiritual light in the world, which is why Paul said before Jesus came that the Gentiles had "no hope" and were "without God in the world" (Ephesians 2:11-12).

Wrong. The Word of God is life and the light of men (John 1:1-4) and the light of the Word of God was always in the world, since the fall of Adam. Noah believed it, Abraham, Isaac Jacob and Joseph believed it, Moses and all the prophets and some of the kings of Israel believed it. The Psalmists believed it and Solomon believed it. The Judges believed it.

Jesus is the Word of God who became a human being. He is the light of the world. Gentiles had the light present in the world through the Word of God given to the Jews and as a result many converted to the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob even before the light of the world Himself came into the world. The darkness did not need to be bound in order that the darkness "did not overcome it" then, and the darkness did not need to be bound in order that the darkness "does not overcome it" since Jesus came.

What Paul was talking about before his words got corrupted by Amillennialist false doctrine was the fact that Israel had been chosen of God and it was to them that "the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises" pertained (Romans 9:3-6).

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

We are not living in the ages of the ages now.

Did you not bother to actually look at my question? My question had nothing to do with the timing of the thousand years.

I asked "The thousand years begins when Christ begins to reign and when Satan is bound, right?". Where do you see me saying anything about the timing of the thousand years there in terms of whether it is now or in the future? Nowhere. How about you actually answer the question I asked him? Yes or no will suffice.

Scripture teaches that Christ rose again from the dead and He is now alive to the ages of the ages. Scripture teaches that He has been given a name above all names and has been given all authority in heaven and on earth, and scripture - the part you always ignore and never quote - teaches that though all things have already been placed under His feet, for now we do not see it yet,

How do I ignore that? Do you have anything but lies to share? Anything? When did you decide that you just wanted to post lies all the time? This seems to be a recent development.

and scripture teaches that when He returns He will begin to reign to the ages of the ages

Where does scripture teach that?

Paul taught that when He returns He will put down all authority and deliver the kingdom He has been reigning over to the Father.

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

Jesus will return at the end of the age (Matthew 24:3). That is why He said it will be at the end of the age when "

Matthew 13:40 “As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. 41 The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. 42 They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Whoever has ears, let them hear.

The Kingdom of Christ is in you if Christ is in you.

So, you acknowledge that we who have Christ in us now are in the kingdom of Christ now. Which means He reigns now. And He will reign until the last enemy, death, is defeated (1 Cor 15:26), which will happen when He returns at the last trumpet at which point death will be swallowed up in victory (1 Cor 15:50-54).

He will begin to reign to the ages of the ages when He returns because we are not living in the ages of the ages yet. if we were He would have returned, and those of us who are in His Kingdom now would all have been resurrected from the dead already. The binding of Satan is associated - as you correctly pointed out - to the time when He begins to reign until the ages of the ages IN the ages of the ages - when He has returned.

Where do you see the scripture which talks about Him reigning in "the ages of the ages" when He returns? And why do you talk about that in terms of Him beginning to reign when you have already acknowledged that He reigns now "if Christ is in you"?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Wrong. The Word of God is life and the light of men (John 1:1-4) and the light of the Word of God was always in the world, since the fall of Adam. Noah believed it, Abraham, Isaac Jacob and Joseph believed it, Moses and all the prophets and some of the kings of Israel believed it. The Psalmists believed it and Solomon believed it. The Judges believed it.

LOL. Do you even try to see my point? That you can find a few exceptions disproves my point somehow? How about the Gentile nations which comprise a vast majority of the world apart from the small nation of Israel? They were in so much darkness to the point where Paul declared that they had "no hope" and were "without God in the world" before Jesus came. Why do you just ignore that?

Jesus is the Word of God who became a human being. He is the light of the world.

Yes, He is the light of the world. In John 9:5 He said He is the light of the world while He was in the world. After that, His followers were the light of the world because He dwelled in them. But, how about before He came? Was He yet in the world? No.

Gentiles had the light present in the world through the Word of God given to the Jews and as a result many converted to the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob even before the light of the world Himself came into the world. The darkness did not need to be bound in order that the darkness "did not overcome it" then, and the darkness did not need to be bound in order that the darkness "does not overcome it" since Jesus came.

Why do you just ignore the fact that there was so much darkness in the world, especially the Gentile nations that Paul said they had "no hope" and were "without God in the world"? Why do you think that finding a few exceptions is enough to disprove the point I'm making? That's ridiculous.

 

[WPM]

I'm simply trying to show that no matter what Amils do here, they are going to contradict something in the process. If they have the DOTL meaning at the end of satan's little season, this means someone can be saved during his little season according to 2 Peter 3:9-10. Which then contradicts that it is impossible during satan's little season to live and reign with Christ a thousand years, assuming one is presumably saved during his little season. And that one can't divorce the first resurrection from that of salvation, nor can one divorce the first resurrection from that of living and reigning with Christ a thousand years. Therefore, the only way Amil can agree with 2 Peter 3:9-10 and not contradict the first resurrection is by having the DOTL meaning at the beginning of satan's little season. Except it is absurd that satan's little season is involving 2 Peter 3:10 the entire time. Therefore, like I said, no matter what Amil does here, they are going to contradict something in the process.

This is why no Amil takes you serious. You purport so often to speak on behalf of Amillennials, yet you deliberately twist what they believe because for you to acknowledge what they really believe would make sense and would absolutely demolish your whole theology.

The deception that was generally lifted off the nation's to accomplish the great commission (and for them to hear the truth) will be put back on the nation's at the end. This is simple, common sense and biblical.

The Bible tells us that during the Old Testament era, God controlled one single nation, and that the Gentiles were overwhelming lost, blind, bound by chains of sin, sitting in darkness, ignorant of the truth, and without hope. That did not mean that number saved and that they were all lost. No! These were generalities. It is the same with the enlightenment of the nations. It doesn't suggest that all the gentiles will put their trust in God. No, but that the light will shine and that they are not without ignorance. The loosing of the devil at the end to deceive the nations does not mean that Gentiles cannot be saved. It just means that there will be a general overriding subjugation of the great commission.

 

[Zao is life]

The thousand years begins when Christ begins to reign and when Satan is bound, right? Scripture teaches that Christ began to reign after His resurrection.

Did you not bother to actually look at my question? My question had nothing to do with the timing of the thousand years.

Criticizing people for "misquoting" you and "misrepresenting what you yourself said you believe when you contradict yourself as above all the time shows up quite a lot with you.

Where do you see the scripture which talks about Him reigning in "the ages of the ages" when He returns? And why do you talk about that in terms of Him beginning to reign when you have already acknowledged that He reigns now "if Christ is in you"?

"And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign to the ages [aion] of the ages [aion] ("for ever and ever")." (Revelation 11:15).

If that had already occurred or begun to occur, He would have already returned and we would have been resurrected from the dead.

The Kingdom of Christ has already come (glad you acknowledge that, at least). What Kingdom of Christ is being spoken about in Revelation 11:15 if the Kingdom of Christ has already come?

Now compare that with something that HAS already begun:

"I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive to the ages [aion] of the ages [aion] ("for evermore") Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death." (Revelation 1:18).

Now compare the above with the thing you still refuse to acknowledge - the fact that scripture tells us that though all things have already been placed under His feet, we do not see it yet:

Hebrews 2
8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.
9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

You also refuse to acknowledge that there is a link between Hebrews 2:8-9 and what Jesus told us about His Kingdom not being now of this world (John 18:36), and what Revelation 11:15 says about the kingdoms of this world becoming his Kingdom and the commencement of the time He will reign to the ages of the ages + many other scriptures, such as:

1 Corinthians 6
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

1 Corinthians 2:9
"But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him."

Scripture teaches that Christ began to reign in His Kingdom, which is in this world but not of this world, after His resurrection. Scripture also teaches that when the seventh trumpet sounds, the kingdoms of this world will also become His kingdom - and that is when He will begin to reign over all the kingdoms of this world - to the ages of the ages.

The thousand years begins when Christ begins to reign and when Satan is bound, right? Scripture teaches that Christ began to reign after His resurrection.

You cannot explain the seeming contradiction between Christ beginning to reign to the ages of the ages when the seventh trumpet sounds and Christ handing all the authority and power back to God the Father at that time because you have conflated Christ's current reign in His Kingdom and authority over the world with His coming Kingdom and reign.

Scripture teaches that Jesus will hand over all (human) authority and power back to God the Father. Therefore the thousand years to come will be handed back to God the Father and it will make no difference whether or not resurrected humans will be reigning over the kingdoms of this world (like Adam did) under Christ's (the Son of man and last Adam's) authority for the first thousand years of the ages of the ages, because they will be reigning under Christ's rule and authority, who will hand all the authority and power back to God the Father, and God will then be all in all.

1 Corinthians 15
20 But now (already) is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall (when He appears) all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all (human) rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

 

[WPM]

We are not living in the ages of the ages now. Scripture teaches that Christ rose again from the dead and He is now alive to the ages of the ages. Scripture teaches that He has been given a name above all names and has been given all authority in heaven and on earth, and scripture - the part you always ignore and never quote - teaches that though all things have already been placed under His feet, for now we do not see it yet,

and scripture teaches that when He returns He will begin to reign to the ages of the ages - and this is linked to Satan being bound from being able to deceive the nations for the first thousand years of the ages of the ages.

We are not living in the ages of the ages yet. Your ignorance (which comes from ignoring, in your case) of this fact is the basis of your fallacy regarding the binding of Satan.



"Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him." 1 Corinthains 2:9.

The Kingdom of Christ is in you if Christ is in you. He will begin to reign to the ages of the ages when He returns because we are not living in the ages of the ages yet. if we were He would have returned, and those of us who are in His Kingdom now would all have been resurrected from the dead already. The binding of Satan is associated - as you correctly pointed out - to the time when He begins to reign until the ages of the ages IN the ages of the ages - when He has returned.

1. Do you believe that God “worketh all things after the counsel of his own will” (Ephesians 1:11)?
2. Do you believe that God's “counsel shall stand” and He “will do all” His good “pleasure” and because He has “spoken it’ He “will also bring it to pass” and because He has “purposed it” He “will also do it” (Isaiah 46:9-11)?
3. Do you believe “what” God’s “soul desireth, even that he doeth” – “he performeth the thing that is appointed for me” (Job 23:13-14)?
4. Do you believe that God “doeth according to his will … and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?” (Daniel 4:34-35)? Or as the NKJV says: “No one can restrain His hand or say to Him, "What have You done?"
5. Do you believe that Jesus currently possesses “All power [or authority] … in heaven and in earth” (Matthew 28:18)?
6. Do you believe that “All things that the Father hath are” Christ’s (John 16:15)?
7. Do you believe that the Father has indeed given Jesus “power over all flesh” (John 17:2)?
8. Do you believe that “All things are delivered” unto Jesus of His “Father” (Matthew 11:27) and that He has “given all things into his (Christ’s) hand” (John 3:35 and John 13:3)?
9. Do you believe that Jesus “is the head of all principality and power” (Colossians 2:10)?
10. Do you believe that “angels and authorities and powers [are] being made subject unto him” (1 Peter 3:22 says)?
11. Do you believe that Christ has become "the ruler of God’s creation" (Revelation 3:14)?
12. Do you believe that our Lord is indeed "the ruler of the kings of the earth" (Revelation 1:5)?
13. Do you believe what it says in 1 Corinthians 15:25-28 and Ephesians 1:20- that God “hath put (present tense) all things under his feet” and what Hebrews 1:8 tells us that He “hast put all things (present tense) in subjection under his feet”?
14. Do you believe that Jesus has already "spoiled principalities and powers ... made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it (the cross)" (Colossians 2:15)?
15. Do you believe that Christ currently “openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth" (Revelation 3:7)?

 

[Zao is life]

LOL. Do you even try to see my point? That you can find a few exceptions disproves my point somehow? How about the Gentile nations which comprise a vast majority of the world apart from the small nation of Israel? They were in so much darkness to the point where Paul declared that they had "no hope" and were "without God in the world" before Jesus came. Why do you just ignore that?

Do you even realize what is the hope Paul was talking about? It's doubtful. Because you do not seem to understand why those who had been given the covenants and the promises of the coming Messiah had that hope of something that lay in their future,

nor do you understand why that hope is not a different hope that Paul was talking to Gentile believers in the Messiah about

- and it's because you conflate that hope with darkness - which according to you had enough power over God before Jesus came to prevent any Gentiles from believing and converting to faith in the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

What you say above about the darkness in the nations is still the case today. Altogether there are many more Hindus, Budhhists and Muslims in the world than Christians, so the status quo in the world regarding most of the world having no hope - because that hope is IN the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob - is still what you describe above.

Why do you just ignore the above fact? You do so only so that you can imply that the Word of God that was in the world before Christ Himself came was not light - because that is INDEED what your argument implies. You are also implying by your invalid argument that all the non-Christians in the world today have the hope that Paul was describing in the passage whose meaning you have corrupted, because according to you "the darkness has been bound and has been unable to deceive the nations".

It's pointless pointing out the many fallacies and logical fallacies in all your Amil arguments though. Because by now I've realized that Amils are incapable of holding biblical scripture above Amil theology. You're all too brainwashed through your faith in falsehood.

 

[Zao is life]

1. Do you believe that God “worketh all things after the counsel of his own will” (Ephesians 1:11)?
2. Do you believe that God's “counsel shall stand” and He “will do all” His good “pleasure” and because He has “spoken it’ He “will also bring it to pass” and because He has “purposed it” He “will also do it” (Isaiah 46:9-11)?
3. Do you believe “what” God’s “soul desireth, even that he doeth” – “he performeth the thing that is appointed for me” (Job 23:13-14)?
4. Do you believe that God “doeth according to his will … and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?” (Daniel 4:34-35)? Or as the NKJV says: “No one can restrain His hand or say to Him, "What have You done?"
5. Do you believe that Jesus currently possesses “All power [or authority] … in heaven and in earth” (Matthew 28:18)?
6. Do you believe that “All things that the Father hath are” Christ’s (John 16:15)?
7. Do you believe that the Father has indeed given Jesus “power over all flesh” (John 17:2)?
8. Do you believe that “All things are delivered” unto Jesus of His “Father” (Matthew 11:27) and that He has “given all things into his (Christ’s) hand” (John 3:35 and John 13:3)?
9. Do you believe that Jesus “is the head of all principality and power” (Colossians 2:10)?
10. Do you believe that “angels and authorities and powers [are] being made subject unto him” (1 Peter 3:22 says)?
11. Do you believe that Christ has become "the ruler of God’s creation" (Revelation 3:14)?
12. Do you believe that our Lord is indeed "the ruler of the kings of the earth" (Revelation 1:5)?
13. Do you believe what it says in 1 Corinthians 15:25-28 and Ephesians 1:20- that God “hath put (present tense) all things under his feet” and what Hebrews 1:8 tells us that He “hast put all things (present tense) in subjection under his feet”?
14. Do you believe that Jesus has already "spoiled principalities and powers ... made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it (the cross)" (Colossians 2:15)?
15. Do you believe that Christ currently “openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth" (Revelation 3:7)?

Do you believe in Christ? Because none of the above supports Amil.

Do you believe the gospel?

Because if you do, you would not be conflating the gospel with your Amil false doctrines and believing that mixing truth with falsehood = truth.

So do you believe the gospel?

If so, why do you ask 15 gospel questions that have no support for your Amil false doctrine?

Answer your own questions yourself. I have no time for explaining to you what you cannot hear - the fact that mixing truth with error the way you do = Amillennialism.

Answer these questions for me:

Do you believe in Christ?
Do you believe that God's Word is above all things?
Do you place God's Word in Christ above all men's theologies and doctrines? (If you say yes, you are a liar - because you have placed your own theology and doctrines above the Word of God in Christ, as is plain by your theologies).

PS: I'm not going to reply to any more of your responses because in my opinion it's an annoying waste of time. I won't read any more of your posts. NOR do I need to answer your questions when you produce long posts mixing truth with falsehood - even though you then correctly call the result "Amillennialism".

 

[Davidpt]

Criticizing people for "misquoting" you and "misrepresenting what you yourself said you believe when you contradict yourself as above all the time shows up quite a lot with you.



"And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign to the ages [aion] of the ages [aion] ("for ever and ever")." (Revelation 11:15).

If that had already occurred or begun to occur, He would have already returned and we would have been resurrected from the dead.

The Kingdom of Christ has already come (glad you acknowledge that, at least). What Kingdom of Christ is being spoken about in Revelation 11:15 if the Kingdom of Christ has already come?

Now compare that with something that HAS already begun:

"I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive to the ages [aion] of the ages [aion] ("for evermore") Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death." (Revelation 1:18).

Now compare the above with the thing you still refuse to acknowledge - the fact that scripture tells us that though all things have already been placed under His feet, we do not see it yet:

Hebrews 2
8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.
9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

You also refuse to acknowledge that there is a link between Hebrews 2:8-9 and what Jesus told us about His Kingdom not being now of this world (John 18:36), and what Revelation 11:15 says about the kingdoms of this world becoming his Kingdom and the commencement of the time He will reign to the ages of the ages + many other scriptures, such as:

1 Corinthians 6
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

1 Corinthians 2:9
"But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him."

Scripture teaches that Christ began to reign in His Kingdom, which is in this world but not of this world, after His resurrection. Scripture also teaches that when the seventh trumpet sounds, the kingdoms of this world will also become His kingdom - and that is when He will begin to reign over all the kingdoms of this world - to the ages of the ages.



You cannot explain the seeming contradiction between Christ beginning to reign to the ages of the ages when the seventh trumpet sounds and Christ handing all the authority and power back to God the Father at that time because you have conflated Christ's current reign in His Kingdom and authority over the world with His coming Kingdom and reign.

Scripture teaches that Jesus will hand over all (human) authority and power back to God the Father. Therefore the thousand years to come will be handed back to God the Father and it will make no difference whether or not resurrected humans will be reigning over the kingdoms of this world (like Adam did) under Christ's (the Son of man and last Adam's) authority for the first thousand years of the ages of the ages, because they will be reigning under Christ's rule and authority, who will hand all the authority and power back to God the Father, and God will then be all in all.

1 Corinthians 15
20 But now (already) is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall (when He appears) all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all (human) rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Since you brought up Revelation 11:15, IMO then, Zechariah 14:9, for example, can't be true until the 7th trumpet sounds first. Yet pretty much all Amils, and maybe even some Premils for all I know, insist Zechariah 14:9 has already been fulfilled. Yet most of these same ones agree that Revelation 11:15 hasn't been fulfilled yet. The point being, how can nothing recorded in Zechariah 14 not be involving the millennium post the 2nd coming? IMO, some of Zechariah 14 is involving the new Jerusalem, which then means some of it is involving the NHNE.

And that there are actually some Amils who at least agree that some of it is involving the new Jerusalem and the NHNE, except they don't agree that the millennium is the first thousand years of the everlasting NHNE. While OTOH, most Premils think that the new Jerusalem is not found anywhere in the text. Ok, assuming that's true, I guess that means that the Jerusalem currently in the middle east is meaning the Jerusalem meant below in verse 11. That that Jerusalem, not the new Jerusalem, can explain a Jerusalem where there is no more utter destruction ever again when this is being fulfilled; and that this Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited forever. And it's really bad when even some Amils can't discern which Jerusalem is meant here.

Zechariah 14:11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.

No matter how you look at it, this is meaning after 70 AD, not prior to it. Therefore, it would be absurd to insist that this was fulfilled when Christ walked the earth 2000 years ago. Which then ignores that 70 AD contradicts that if true.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Criticizing people for "misquoting" you and "misrepresenting what you yourself said you believe when you contradict yourself as above all the time shows up quite a lot with you.

Because it's true. You guys are either liars or have terrible reading comprehension skills. I lean towards believing you are liars since you misrepresent our view repeatedly even after we correct you.

"And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign to the ages [aion] of the ages [aion] ("for ever and ever")." (Revelation 11:15).

If that had already occurred or begun to occur, He would have already returned and we would have been resurrected from the dead.

I don't claim that the above already occurred, so this is yet another straw man argument.

The Kingdom of Christ has already come (glad you acknowledge that, at least).

Glad that I acknowledge that? LOL! That is a huge emphasis of Amillennialism. Of course I acknowledge that. LOL! You Premils are all comedians.

What Kingdom of Christ is being spoken about in Revelation 11:15 if the Kingdom of Christ has already come?

It's not just referring to the kingdom of Christ there. Look at the verse carefully.

Revelation 11:15 The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said: “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Messiah, and he will reign for ever and ever.”

It's talking about the kingdom of God the Father and of Christ. It says it that way because that is when Jesus will deliver His kingdom to the Father. Scripture teaches that He will do that as His second coming at the end of the age (1 Cor 15:22-24, Matthew 13:40-43).

Now compare that with something that HAS already begun:

"I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive to the ages [aion] of the ages [aion] ("for evermore") Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death." (Revelation 1:18).

Now compare the above with the thing you still refuse to acknowledge - the fact that scripture tells us that though all things have already been placed under His feet, we do not see it yet:

Hebrews 2
8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.
9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

Where did I say I don't acknowledge this? Nowhere! Stop being foolish and misrepresenting my view. The point at which all things that ever will be are put under Him is when even the last enemy, death, is defeated and put under Him. He reigns now and will reign until the last enemy, death, is defeated (1 Cor 15:25-26). Scripture teaches that death will be defeated when Jesus returns at the last trumpet which it will then be said that death has been swallowed up in victory (1 Corinthians 15:50-54).

You also refuse to acknowledge

Stop telling me what I supposedly refuse to acknowledge when I never refuse to acknowledge anything that you falsely claim that I refuse to acknowledge. You are making a fool of yourself with these ridiculous comments. The only thing I refuse to acknowledge is that you have any idea of what you're talking about.

that there is a link between Hebrews 2:8-9 and what Jesus told us about His Kingdom not being now of this world (John 18:36), and what Revelation 11:15 says about the kingdoms of this world becoming his Kingdom and the commencement of the time He will reign to the ages of the ages + many other scriptures, such as:

What are you intending to say with this word salad? Are you unable to speak clearly?

1 Corinthians 6
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

1 Corinthians 2:9
"But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him."

Scripture teaches that Christ began to reign in His Kingdom, which is in this world but not of this world, after His resurrection.

Congratulations on getting something right! Give me your address so that I can send you a trophy.

Scripture also teaches that when the seventh trumpet sounds, the kingdoms of this world will also become His kingdom - and that is when He will begin to reign over all the kingdoms of this world - to the ages of the ages.

Wrong! He will put down all the rule and authority of the kingdoms of the world when He comes and deliver His kingdom to the Father at that time. You clearly have no understanding of what is written in 1 Corinthians 15:22-28. And you ignore that Revelation 11:15 talks about the kingdom of the Father and the Son. You fail to even mention the Father there. Is that on purpose or are you trying to be deceptive?

You cannot explain the seeming contradiction between Christ beginning to reign to the ages of the ages when the seventh trumpet sounds and Christ handing all the authority and power back to God the Father at that time because you have conflated Christ's current reign in His Kingdom and authority over the world with His coming Kingdom and reign.

When He delivers the kingdom to the Father even He will be subject to the Father at that point. But, that is when the new heavens and new earth are ushered in and the new heavens and new earth are eternal and there will be no more sin and death at that time. That's what you don't understand. You ridiculously try to claim that some of the dead will be resurrected and then have their faith tested at that point, which is not taught in scripture anywhere. Scripture teaches that today is the day and now is the time of salvation (2 Corinthians 6:2), so this temporary lifetime that we have now is when we are tested.

Scripture teaches that Jesus will hand over all (human) authority and power back to God the Father. Therefore the thousand years to come will be handed back to God the Father and it will make no difference whether or not resurrected humans will be reigning over the kingdoms of this world (like Adam did) under Christ's (the Son of man and last Adam's) authority for the first thousand years of the ages of the ages, because they will be reigning under Christ's rule and authority, who will hand all the authority and power back to God the Father, and God will then be all in all.

LOL. This is such a word salad. It makes no sense whatsoever to rightly believe that Jesus will hand over the kindgom to the Father when He returns, but then think that life will go on as before on the earth after that. No, eternity will be ushered in at that point. You need to be abandon your ludicrous theory that people will be resurrected and then have to prove themselves afterwards. Scripture does not even come close to teaching that nonsense. Instead, it teaches that judgment immediately follows the resurrection of the dead (John 5:28-29, Daniel 12:2).

1 Corinthians 15
20 But now (already) is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall (when He appears) all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all (human) rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

It's a shame that you don't properly understand what the above teaches. At least, unlike every other Premill, you acknowledge that Jesus will deliver the kingdom to the Father when He returns. At least, I think you acknowledge that. You're not easy to follow.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Do you believe in Christ? Because none of the above supports Amil.

Do you believe the gospel?

Because if you do, you would not be conflating the gospel with your Amil false doctrines and believing that mixing truth with falsehood = truth.

So do you believe the gospel?

If so, why do you ask 15 gospel questions that have no support for your Amil false doctrine?

Answer your own questions yourself. I have no time for explaining to you what you cannot hear - the fact that mixing truth with error the way you do = Amillennialism.

Answer these questions for me:

Do you believe in Christ?
Do you believe that God's Word is above all things?
Do you place God's Word in Christ above all men's theologies and doctrines? (If you say yes, you are a liar - because you have placed your own theology and doctrines above the Word of God in Christ, as is plain by your theologies).

PS: I'm not going to reply to any more of your responses because in my opinion it's an annoying waste of time. I won't read any more of your posts. NOR do I need to answer your questions when you produce long posts mixing truth with falsehood - even though you then correctly call the result "Amillennialism".

Were his questions too difficult for you? How about you just answer 2 or 3 of them? The fact that you don't even attempt to answer one of them says a lot about your lack of being able to back up what you believe.

 

[Zao is life]

Since you brought up Revelation 11:15, IMO then, Zechariah 14:9, for example, can't be true until the 7th trumpet sounds first. Yet pretty much all Amils, and maybe even some Premils for all I know, insist Zechariah 14:9 has already been fulfilled. Yet most of these same ones agree that Revelation 11:15 hasn't been fulfilled yet. The point being, how can nothing recorded in Zechariah 14 not be involving the millennium post the 2nd coming? IMO, some of Zechariah 14 is involving the new Jerusalem, which then means some of it is involving the NHNE.

And that there are actually some Amils who at least agree that some of it is involving the new Jerusalem and the NHNE, except they don't agree that the millennium is the first thousand years of the everlasting NHNE. While OTOH, most Premils think that the new Jerusalem is not found anywhere in the text. Ok, assuming that's true, I guess that means that the Jerusalem currently in the middle east is meaning the Jerusalem meant below in verse 11. That that Jerusalem, not the new Jerusalem, can explain a Jerusalem where there is no more utter destruction ever again when this is being fulfilled; and that this Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited forever. And it's really bad when even some Amils can't discern which Jerusalem is meant here.

Zechariah 14:11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.

No matter how you look at it, this is meaning after 70 AD, not prior to it. Therefore, it would be absurd to insist that this was fulfilled when Christ walked the earth 2000 years ago. Which then ignores that 70 AD contradicts that if true.

I see Zechariah chapters 12 & 14 as being A prophecy describing the events of the seventh trumpet and the conditions that follow, connected to Christ and His Kingdom that has come and His Kingdom that is coming (Zechariah 13) - which I see as metaphorically talking about the NHNE and New Jerusalem - meaning that it's not literally referring to the Feast of Tabernacles etc but is metaphorical language describing New Jerusalem and the NHNE.

 

[WPM]

"And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign to the ages [aion] of the ages [aion] ("for ever and ever")." (Revelation 11:15).

If that had already occurred or begun to occur, He would have already returned and we would have been resurrected from the dead.

The Kingdom of Christ has already come (glad you acknowledge that, at least). What Kingdom of Christ is being spoken about in Revelation 11:15 if the Kingdom of Christ has already come?

If you could take your Premillennialist glasses off for a moment and only see what is really happening here. It is only at the last trumpets that it is said: "The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ." Why? Because, this is not so now. Christ is still reigning over His enemies. The kingdoms of this world are currently under the influence of Satan. Satan is a slave of the Lord. He cannot do what he wishes without permission Under the sovereign control of Christ, He reigns over His enemies (human and demonic) today. Everything is working out for His ultimate glory. As the Puritan John Flavel says of Christ: “He rules and orders the kingdom of providence by supporting, permitting, restraining, limiting, protecting, punishing and rewarding those over whom He reigns providentially.”

Now compare that with something that HAS already begun:

"I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive to the ages [aion] of the ages [aion] ("for evermore") Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death." (Revelation 1:18).

Now compare the above with the thing you still refuse to acknowledge - the fact that scripture tells us that though all things have already been placed under His feet, we do not see it yet:

Not true. You are twisting what the Bible says he supports your doctrine.

Hebrews 2
8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.
9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

There is no contradiction here. It is telling us that everything is currently under His feet today: "he left nothing that is not put under him." But because every enemy has not yet arisen or been born there are still some that are yet to be put under His feet. That is because the end has not come. His reign is therefore an ongoing unfolding process. Enemies are born, and enemies die. Kingdoms arise, and kingdoms fall. Throughout them all, Christ is reigning over every one of them.

You also refuse to acknowledge that there is a link between Hebrews 2:8-9 and what Jesus told us about His Kingdom not being now of this world (John 18:36), and what Revelation 11:15 says about the kingdoms of this world becoming his Kingdom and the commencement of the time He will reign to the ages of the ages + many other scriptures, such as:

2+2 = 4, not 22.

1 Corinthians 6
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

1 Corinthians 2:9
"But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him."

Scripture teaches that Christ began to reign in His Kingdom, which is in this world but not of this world, after His resurrection. Scripture also teaches that when the seventh trumpet sounds, the kingdoms of this world will also become His kingdom - and that is when He will begin to reign over all the kingdoms of this world - to the ages of the ages.

No! He is raining over the kingdoms of this world now. But, when he comes, the kingdoms of this world Will become the kingdoms of our God. They will be swallowed up on the final day and finally and eternally destroyed.

You cannot explain the seeming contradiction between Christ beginning to reign to the ages of the ages when the seventh trumpet sounds and Christ handing all the authority and power back to God the Father at that time because you have conflated Christ's current reign in His Kingdom and authority over the world with His coming Kingdom and reign.

When did he say that? Christ is ruling now, and hereafter. He's currently raining over his enemies in the here and now. This will continue until the second coming. After that he will destroy his enemies. We are not into the eternal state. There will be no more enemies in that environment.

Scripture teaches that Jesus will hand over all (human) authority and power back to God the Father. Therefore the thousand years to come will be handed back to God the Father and it will make no difference whether or not resurrected humans will be reigning over the kingdoms of this world (like Adam did) under Christ's (the Son of man and last Adam's) authority for the first thousand years of the ages of the ages, because they will be reigning under Christ's rule and authority, who will hand all the authority and power back to God the Father, and God will then be all in all.

LOL. You're forcing your own inventions into the sacred text. The Bible does not say this.

Where does the Bible teach that "the first thousand years' is "the ages of the ages." Nowhere! You make it up as you go to support your error.

1 Corinthians 15

20 But now (already) is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall (when He appears) all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all (human) rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Paul confirms the finality of the return of Jesus, in 1 Corinthians 15:22-28, stating, “as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at His coming [Gr. parousia]. Then cometh the end [Gr. telos], when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.”

This is what happens at "the end." This is what happens when Jesus returns. When Jesus comes: "all things shall be subdued unto him." That means: there will be no more rebellion. There will be no more defiance. There will be no more sin. There will be no more sinner. There will be no more devil. There will be no more curse. We're now into eternity. We're now into the new heavens and new earth.

At that time: "shall the Son also himself be subject unto him (His Father) that put all things under him, that God may be all in all."

What is more: “all rule and all authority and power” are “put down” at “Christ’s … coming.” It is that simple, and that clear. There is no mention or suggestion of some imaginary future millennium after the second coming. This text forbids that. Those who take a clear, objective and literal straightforward reading of this text will see that it spells the end of all rebellion. However, this is the opposite to the Premil millennium: which has more wicked and more enemies arising and culminates in the greatest uprising in human history – as the wicked, against the saints of God “as the sand of the sea.”

 

[Davidpt]

I see Zechariah chapters 12 & 14 as being A prophecy describing the events of the seventh trumpet and the conditions that follow, connected to Christ and His Kingdom that has come and His Kingdom that is coming (Zechariah 13) - which I see as metaphorically talking about the NHNE and New Jerusalem - meaning that it's not literally referring to the Feast of Tabernacles etc but is metaphorical language describing New Jerusalem and the NHNE.

Of course it is not literally meaning the feast of tabernacles. Some Premils might believe it is, but I don't. Yet I still believe some of Zechariah 14 is meaning post the 2nd coming, the fact verse 9 can't be fulfilled until verse 12 is fulfilled, and that verse 9 can't be fulfilled until Revelation 11:15 is fulfilled. What I don't agree with, is that Revelation 11:15 is meaning 1 Corinthians 15:24, where it appears that @Spiritual Israelite says that you agree with him about. Except no matter how one looks at it, 1 Corinthians 15:24 can't even get fulfilled until the great white throne judgment is fulfilled first. Do you agree with him about those things? Or is he lying about that?

 

[David in NJ]

The above is just more false, non-biblical (church) doctrine which is gibberish and based on a total misreading of the scriptures regarding the resurrection from the dead.

"Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. Vanity of vanities, saith the preacher; all is vanity." (Ecclesiastes 12:7-8).

When Jesus raised a young girl from the dead, we are told that "her spirit came again, and she arose straightway: and he commanded to give her meat." (Luke 8:55). Her spirit was not "dead" before she died - but before she died, she had not received (from God) the GIFT of eternal life [zoe] which exists in Christ, in God alone.

Nothing in creation has life unless it born of the Spirit of God (as when He breathed life [zoe] into Adam and Adam became a living [zao] soul).

THE GOSPEL IS TWO-FOLD: GOOD NEWS ABOUT ETERNAL LIFE [ZOE] BEING GIVEN IN CHRIST TO YOU; AND THE GOOD NEWS ABOUT THE RESURRECTION OF THE BODY FROM THE DEAD SO THAT YOU CAN BE ALIVE [ZAO] FOREVER IN CHRIST.

The good news for those who believe in the Son of God is that "God has given to us eternal life [zōḗ], and this life [zōḗ] is in His Son:
He that has the Son has (eternal) life; and he that has not the Son of God has not (eternal) life [zōḗ]." (1 John 5:11-12).

No created human being has eternal life in himself. The eternal life of any created human being who has been given eternal life is in Christ: Jesus told those who believed in Him:

"I am in my Father, and ye (will be) in me, and I in you."
(John 14:19b-20b)

In Colossians 1:27 Paul talks about "the mystery which has been hidden from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints,

which is Christ IN you, the hope of glory."

If you have been given eternal life by God, your eternal life is not in yourself, but IN CHRIST, who alone has life IN HIMSELF. Christ in you = eternal life in you. Jesus said, "The kingdom of God does not come with external evidence (that can be observed). Nor will they say, 'Look, here it is!' or 'It's over there!' For take heed, be discerning, and perceive this: The kingdom of God is within you." (Luke 17:21).

Without being born of the Spirit of God, a created human being does not also have life [zoe] that is eternal, and which is IN CHRIST, GIVEN to it.

The other part of the good news is the following:

"If Christ's Spirit is in you,

(1) your body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit (of Christ) is your (eternal) life [zoe] because of (Christ's) righteousness.

(2) Moreover, if the Spirit of the one who raised [egeiro] Jesus from the dead dwells in you, the one who raised [egeiro] Christ from the dead will also quicken [zōopoiéō] your mortal bodies through his Spirit who lives in you." (Romans 8:10-11).

"For the law of the Spirit of the life [zoe] (which is) in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death." (Romans 8:2).

"When Christ, who is our life [zōḗ], shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory." (Colossians 3:4).

The result of Christ's Spirit in a human being quickening the dead body (making it alive again) is the resurrection of the body from the dead when Chris returns.

All this was bought for us by the blood of Christ when He died for our sins and rose again from the dead.

Nowhere does the Bible talk about "dead human spirits" - the hypothesis of so-called "spiritual death" is simply the absence of eternal life [zoe], and eternal life [zoe] is that which in Colossians 1:26-27 Paul calls,

"The mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints", which is "Christ in you, the hope of glory."

"Spiritual life" | eternal life [aionios zoe] exists in God alone. It is given in Christ to those who have been born of the Spirit of God, and without being born of the Spirit of God, a created human being does not also have life [zoe] that is eternal GIVEN to it;

and because a created human being does not have life [zoe] IN ITSELF, when the body dies, the created human being is no longer alive [zao], and the life [zoe] of the flesh that has died goes back to its source (the spirit goes back to its source):

"Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. Vanity of vanities, saith the preacher; all is vanity." (Ecclesiastes 12:7-8).

ANOTHER OFTEN-REPEATED FALSE DOCTRINE:

"We are 'spiritually alive' because our 'dead' human spirits were 'quickened from death' at the same time that we were born of the Spirit."

The quickening (making alive) of the dead human body is what the verses in the New Testament which talk about the quickening of the dead are ALWAYS talking about, being based on the fact that after He died, His dead body having been quickened from the dead, Christ rose again from the dead, and lived again [ANAZAO].

This false doctrine about the "resurrection" of the soul / spirit "from the dead" has also lost sight of the fact that the gospel is holistic and applies to the body, soul and spirit of human beings (which is why the quickening of the body from death and the resurrection of the body from death are integral parts of the gospel of salvation from sin AND death). The quickening and resurrection of the dead body is accomplished through the life-giving Spirit of Christ:

"If Christ's Spirit is in you,

(1) your body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit (of Christ) is your (eternal) life [zoe] because of (Christ's) righteousness.

(2) Moreover, if the Spirit of the one who raised [egeiro] Jesus from the dead dwells in you, the one who raised [egeiro] Christ from the dead will also quicken [zōopoiéō] your mortal bodies through his Spirit who lives in you." (Romans 8:10-11).

"For the law of the Spirit of the life [zoe] (which is) in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death." (Romans 8:2).

"When Christ, who is our life [zōḗ], shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory." (Colossians 3:4).

The quickening and resurrection of the human body from the dead results in immortality (to live | to be alive [zao] forever in a body that never dies or decays).

There is no such thing in biblical scripture as a spiritual "resurrection" of our souls / spirits. ONLY GOD CAN SAY: "I have' eternal life" | "I am spiritually alive" The spiritual life given to you is IN CHRIST and through CHRIST IN YOU.

"For IN HIM (God) we live | are alive [zao], and move, and have our being; For we are also his offspring." (Acts 17:28).

"The Logos ("Word") of God was in the beginning with God. In Him was life [zōḗ], and the life [zōḗ] is the light of men." (John 1:2 & 4).

"For as the Father hath life [zōḗ] in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life [zōḗ] in himself." (John 5:26).

Being BORN of the Spirit of God (Christ Spirit being planted in you) has NOTHING to do with "resurrection from the dead". Your soul / spirit was never dead. If you die before the resurrection your soul and the Spirit of life in Christ which God continually gives you will go to Christ and your body will no longer be alive [zao]. This will be your condition UNTIL the resurrection of your body from the dead. After the resurrection you will be alive [zao] forever (immortal) AS LONG AS YOU REMAIN IN CHRIST AND CHRIST IN YOU - because He is your life [zao].

"You will NOT surely die" is still a lie.

Life [zoe] is in Christ alone, uniquely among human beings, the Logos who became a human being, i.e Jesus the Son of God alone possesses eternal life in Himself.

"No life unless it born of the Spirit of God" = "CHRIST resurrects our soul/spirits from the grave of spiritual death"

SAME SAME SAME

Being BORN of the Spirit of God (Christ Spirit being planted in you) has NOTHING to do with "resurrection from the dead".

Now this statement of yours above is completely FALSE and un-Biblical

You need to believe the words of CHRIST = "Unless one is born of water and the Spirit he CANNOT enter the Kingdom of God."

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Do you even realize what is the hope Paul was talking about? It's doubtful.

LOL. How about you let me answer the question first before trying to answer it for me? You are not me. Let me speak for myself.

Of course I know what hope he was talking about. The hope of salvation and eternal life. If you think otherwise, then you have even less discernment than I thought.

Because you do not seem to understand why those who had been given the covenants and the promises of the coming Messiah had that hope of something that lay in their future,

Why do you try to speak for me? That is foolish. They had the hope of salvation and eternal life through the Messiah. Something the Gentiles were not familiar with before Christ came.

nor do you understand why that hope is not a different hope that Paul was talking to Gentile believers in the Messiah about

You are so full of hot air. Why does it take you so long to get to the point? You just like watching yourself type?

- and it's because you conflate that hope with darkness - which according to you had enough power over God before Jesus came to prevent any Gentiles from believing and converting to faith in the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

What in the world are you talking about? Are you unable to communicate clearly? I will fall asleep before you get to your point.

What you say above about the darkness in the nations is still the case today.

Nonsense! Why are you so ignorant? There were very few people saved in the Gentile nations in Old Testament times. How can you not know that? Yet, we can see a description of a great multitude that no one can count from all nations as being saved in Revelation 7:9. Are you going to try to tell me that most of those were saved in Old Testament times? Please tell me you are not that ignorant.

Altogether there are many more Hindus, Budhhists and Muslims in the world than Christians, so the status quo in the world regarding most of the world having no hope - because that hope is IN the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob - is still what you describe above.

Nonsense! Do you not see any difference between few being saved and a great multitude that no one can count being saved? Why do you never address what I actually believe? Why do you and Davidpt spend at least 90% of your time arguing with straw men? Do you just enjoy wasting a bunch of your time or what?

Why do you just ignore the above fact?

LOL. Why do you ignore the tremendous impact that the gospel has had in the world in the past 2,000 years compared to the 4,000 years or so which preceded it?

You do so only so that you can imply that the Word of God that was in the world before Christ Himself came was not light - because that is INDEED what your argument implies.

How can you be this ignorant? What is your excuse? How can you not know that a vast majority in the world were not aware of the Word of God in Old Testament times? Seriously, how can you not be aware of such a simple concept? This is absolutely unbelievable.

Tell me how you interpret this passage...

Acts 17:29 “Therefore since we are God’s offspring, we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone—an image made by human design and skill. 30 In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent.

Why would Paul have said this if things during NT times were no different than in OT times? Do you know why God overlooked a lot of the ignorance that went on in OT times? Because He knew that the light of the gospel had not been shown in the world yet. So, He gave them more leeway. But, since the gospel has gone out into the world, people have no excuse for being ignorant about what God requires. Now (in NT times) He commands all people everywhere to repent because the light of the gospel, which teaches that people must repent and put their faith in Christ in order to be saved, has gone out into the world. No longer can most people say "I never heard of the word of God or the gospel", so they have no excuse for not repenting of their sins and putting their faith in Christ as their Savior.

You are also implying by your invalid argument that all the non-Christians in the world today have the hope that Paul was describing in the passage whose meaning you have corrupted, because the darkness has been bound and has been unable to deceive the nations.

You are the one who looks at everything as all or nothing. According to you, it's never possible to speak in a general sense about what's true most of the time or in most of the world. I'm talking about the places where the light has gone into the darkness, which is most places in the world at this point. Those who have not heard the gospel, which is far less than many people think, will be judged based on what they do know and understand. But, everyone else who previously had not heard the word of God or the gospel and had no hope of eternal life because of it have no excuse for not repenting and believing the gospel. They will be judged based on the light that has been shown to them and how they responded to it.

It's pointless pointing out the many fallacies and logical fallacies in all your Amil arguments though. Because by now I've realized that Amils are incapable of holding biblical scripture above Amil theology. You're all too brainwashed through your faith in falsehood.

Your arguments are incredibly weak. You saw that your former belief that some mortals will survive the return of Christ could not possibly be true, but instead of then accepting that Amill is true, you resorted to believing this nonsense that some will be resurrected as immortal but still have their faith tested and could still fall away. Despite the fact that scripture teaches that this lifetime is the time that people have to repent and to be saved and have their faith tested. You dreamed up something in your imagination about those who are resurrected that is not taught anywhere in scripture. Talk about logical fallacies.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Of course it is not literally meaning the feast of tabernacles. Some Premils might believe it is, but I don't. Yet I still believe some of Zechariah 14 is meaning post the 2nd coming, the fact verse 9 can't be fulfilled until verse 12 is fulfilled, and that verse 9 can't be fulfilled until Revelation 11:15 is fulfilled. What I don't agree with, is that Revelation 11:15 is meaning 1 Corinthians 15:24, where it appears that @Spiritual Israelite says that you agree with him about. Except no matter how one looks at it, 1 Corinthians 15:24 can't even get fulfilled until the great white throne judgment is fulfilled first. Do you agree with him about those things? Or is he lying about that?

LOL. I said that I think he agrees with me about it. Why are you lying and acting like I said he for sure agrees with me about that? How can anyone be sure about what he believes when he is rarely clear about anything he believes?

This is what I said:

It's a shame that you don't properly understand what the above teaches. At least, unlike every other Premill, you acknowledge that Jesus will deliver the kingdom to the Father when He returns. At least, I think you acknowledge that. You're not easy to follow.

Does that look like I was claiming with 100% certainty that he agrees with me about those things?

 

[WPM]

Do you believe in Christ? Because none of the above supports Amil.

Do you believe the gospel?

Because if you do, you would not be conflating the gospel with your Amil false doctrines and believing that mixing truth with falsehood = truth.

So do you believe the gospel?

If so, why do you ask 15 gospel questions that have no support for your Amil false doctrine?

Answer your own questions yourself. I have no time for explaining to you what you cannot hear - the fact that mixing truth with error the way you do = Amillennialism.

Answer these questions for me:

Do you believe in Christ?
Do you believe that God's Word is above all things?
Do you place God's Word in Christ above all men's theologies and doctrines? (If you say yes, you are a liar - because you have placed your own theology and doctrines above the Word of God in Christ, as is plain by your theologies).

PS: I'm not going to reply to any more of your responses because in my opinion it's an annoying waste of time. I won't read any more of your posts. NOR do I need to answer your questions when you produce long posts mixing truth with falsehood - even though you then correctly call the result "Amillennialism".

LOL. Checkmate! Premil is DEAD. The battle has been won. You have nothing to bring to the table anymore. For you to answer any of these questions honestly would absolutely decimate your error. I shared this privately with someone and then you throw the white flag up and hour later.

I will count this a great compliment. You have no rebuttal for Amillennialism. All you have is your the avoidance above. That is your MO. That is the Premil MO. It is the truth that demolishes your theories and speculations.

 

[WPM]

Of course it is not literally meaning the feast of tabernacles. Some Premils might believe it is, but I don't. Yet I still believe some of Zechariah 14 is meaning post the 2nd coming, the fact verse 9 can't be fulfilled until verse 12 is fulfilled, and that verse 9 can't be fulfilled until Revelation 11:15 is fulfilled. What I don't agree with, is that Revelation 11:15 is meaning 1 Corinthians 15:24, where it appears that @Spiritual Israelite says that you agree with him about. Except no matter how one looks at it, 1 Corinthians 15:24 can't even get fulfilled until the great white throne judgment is fulfilled first. Do you agree with him about those things? Or is he lying about that?

There you go again. More duplicity. You have no consistent hermeneutics. You're all over the place. You spiritualize the sacrifices when it suits your theology. That is because Premillennialism doesn't make sense. It is extra biblical. It is erroneous and contradictory. That is why Bible student should reject it as error.