The Doctrines of Grace

[PinSeeker]

... what I am saying is that you are contradicting hundreds of Scripture.

I totally respect your opinion. <smile> I just refuted the first two alleged "contradictions" on my part in Post #998. Feel free to answer to that at any time; I'm sure that would be... interesting. Because right now, you're just saying stuff without even attempting to back any of your... "stuff"... up. Give it a try. <smile>

And... I would be very interested in the other... "hundreds." <chuckles>

If God wants all people to be saved, how can his desire be thwarted. Is God unable to perform his will?

Hmmm, okay, so are all people going to be saved, KUWN? Is that what you think? Are you a universalist?

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Christian Soldier]

Ever wonder why God condemned mankind in Adam?

Note this in Rom 11.32
For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

Paul is not dealing with the doctrine of original sin in Rom 11:32 He is speaking to born again Jews. He is simply telling them that God is going to show His children in the Gentile nations, the same mercy He is showing the Jews.

Please be careful how you handle the Word of God, you don't want to arouse His wrath.

Your suggestion that God will have mercy on all of them, makes God a liar. The truth is they will beg for mercy but God will show them no mercy as He casts them into the lake of fire.
God only shows mercy to His children, the Devils children will be cast into the lake of fire with the Devil and His Demons.

 

[Scott Downey]

Paul is not dealing with the doctrine of original sin in Rom 11:32 He is speaking to born again Jews. He is simply telling them that God is going to show His children in the Gentile nations, the same mercy He is showing the Jews.

Please be careful how you handle the Word of God, you don't want to arouse His wrath.

Your suggestion that God will have mercy on all of them, makes God a liar. The truth is they will beg for mercy but God will show them no mercy as He casts them into the lake of fire.
God only shows mercy to His children, the Devils children will be cast into the lake of fire with the Devil and His Demons.

The idea is God may or may not have mercy on all.
We know God shows mercy and compassion to whom He will.
And God hardens others.

Romans 9

10 And not only this, but when Rebecca also had conceived by one man, even by our father Isaac 11 (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls), 12 it was said to her, “The older shall serve the younger.” 13 As it is written, “Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated.”

Israel’s Rejection and God’s Justice​

14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not! 15 For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion.” 16 So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to the Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth.” 18 Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens.

19 You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?” 20 But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?

22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, 24 even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

25 As He says also in Hosea:

“I will call them My people, who were not My people,
And her beloved, who was not beloved.”
26 “And it shall come to pass in the place where it was said to them,
‘You are not My people,’
There they shall be called sons of the living God.”
27 Isaiah also cries out concerning Israel:

“Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea,
The remnant will be saved.
28 For [b]He will finish the work and cut it short in righteousness,
Because the Lord will make a short work upon the earth.”
29 And as Isaiah said before:

“Unless the Lord of [c]Sabaoth had left us a seed,
We would have become like Sodom,
And we would have been made like Gomorrah.”

 

[Scott Downey]

All of the apostle's doctrines are focused on the mercy of God which caused people to believe in Christ.
Do a word study on mercy and you will see that.

God's mercy for you turns into belief in the Son.
The others though, did not receive any mercy from God to be saved.
His great love for you is compassion.

Ephesians 2
And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the [a]course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved)

 

[KUWN]

If God wants all people to be saved, how can his desire be thwarted. Is God unable to perform his will?

Hmmm, okay, so are all people going to be saved, KUWN? Is that what you think? Are you a universalist?

Explain how God wants all people saved but not all people are saved? How is that possible? Interpret the quoted verse, don't avoid it. I want an explanation as you see it. Asking questions is not an answer. Interpret the verse please.

 

[Behold]

God only shows mercy to His children,

The Cross of Christ is not God "showing mercy" to Christians or to "His Children".
Its God showing mercy to us all.......= "ALL have sinned, there is none righteous, no not one""

 

[Scott Downey]

Hmmm, okay, so are all people going to be saved, KUWN? Is that what you think? Are you a universalist?

Explain how God wants all people saved but not all people are saved? How is that possible? Interpret the quoted verse, don't avoid it. I want an explanation as you see it. Asking questions is not an answer. Interpret the verse please.

This is according to God's purposes, that God sovereignly by His mercy saves some people even though expressing a desire in His word that everyone believe in His Son. God also commands all men everywhere to believe in Acts 17.
Nothing can separate His elect from the Love of God.

Romans 8
28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

God’s Everlasting Love​

31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32 He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things? 33 Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. 34 Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 36 As it is written:

“For Your sake we are killed all day long;
We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.”
37 Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. 38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, 39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

****************************
Some people are called to be saints and are preserved in Christ
Ephesians 1 is written to, and for and about His saints
***************************

Greeting​

1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God,

To the saints who are in Ephesus, and faithful in Christ Jesus:

2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Redemption in Christ​

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He [a]made us accepted in the Beloved.

7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace 8 which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and [b]prudence, 9 having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, 10 that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, [c]both which are in heaven and which are on earth—in Him. 11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, 12 that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.

13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who[d] is the [e]guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

Prayer for Spiritual Wisdom​

15 Therefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, 16 do not cease to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers: 17 that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him, 18 the eyes of your [f]understanding being enlightened; that you may know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints, 19 and what is the exceeding greatness of His power toward us who believe, according to the working of His mighty power 20 which He worked in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, 21 far above all principality[g] and [h]power and [i]might and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in that which is to come.

22 And He put all things under His feet, and gave Him to be head over all things to the church, 23 which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.

 

[Behold]

Some people are called to be saints and are preserved in Christ

Its '""Gods will that everyone (all) believe in Jesus, whom God sent".

So, this is the Offer of THe Cross of Christ, as "all who will Believe"......or "To Whosoever will believe".....John 3:16

This is the context of "Jesus came into the world to save sinners".., and "all" are sinners.

Now, Lying Hyper Calvinism, denies The Cross, and insults the Grace of God by its demonic teaching that God wont allow some people to Trust in Christ.
This is the original John Calvinism false theology that was eventually evolved into "only the pre-destined" can believe.

So, this is one of Satan's finest "doctrines of devils"......one of the "big 3".

1.) MaryCult

2.) Calvinism, as Hyper Calvinism

3.) Islam

 

[Ezra]

The main point is that God must be the one to begin the relationship, not man.
A man cannot come to God unless God shows to that man His mercy.
Not that God shows mercy to all, just that to all peoples, God may decide to show His mercy individually and save some of them.

Romans 9
14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not! 15 For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion.” 16 So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to the Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth.” 18 Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens.

19 You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?” 20 But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?

The people God saves are the people God showed mercy to, which is why they believed in Christ.
As it says from the same lump, tells us nothing about us was special, just that God loved us first, and not loved the others.

1 John 4:19
We love Him because He first loved us.

Revelation 1:5
and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth. To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood,

If God had not first loved us, we would not have loved Him.

yes but in calvinism they make us out to be robots to be saved... they reject free will the freedom to chose. yes God through the Holy spirit draws us first.. its call the conviction of the spirit while drawing us in... we can reject God when he draws us.. yes i have studied out the irestibale grace . that term is not Bible.. i resisted him for a long time.

till one night in a revival service He spoke to me saying its now or never. i took the now God will give us just enough rope/ to hang ourselves . when we get to the end of the rope we will either hang ourselves spiritually or accept the term and come just as we are.

its like a church sign i seen years ago fishers of men we catch them God Cleans them... people are trying to complicate the Gospel. they want to turn it into the 12 step program.. i dont know the exact time But God will turn us over to a reprobate mind . .. i have debated calvinism in the carm forum only to be called a false teacher. just to be honest discussing calvinism is about as interesting to me as watching golf . the subject gives me dry bones

 

[Scott Downey]

yes but in calvinism they make us out to be robots to be saved... they reject free will the freedom to chose. yes God through the Holy spirit draws us first.. its call the conviction of the spirit while drawing us in... we can reject God when he draws us.. yes i have studied out the irestibale grace . that term is not Bible.. i resisted him for a long time.

till one night in a revival service He spoke to me saying its now or never. i took the now God will give us just enough rope/ to hang ourselves . when we get to the end of the rope we will either hang ourselves spiritually or accept the term and come just as we are.

its like a church sign i seen years ago fishers of men we catch them God Cleans them... people are trying to complicate the Gospel. they want to turn it into the 12 step program.. i dont know the exact time But God will turn us over to a reprobate mind . .. i have debated calvinism in the carm forum only to be called a false teacher. just to be honest discussing calvinism is about as interesting to me as watching golf . the subject gives me dry bones

I used to be on a CARM forum, then some time ago, they had a database error and it all got wiped out. Never went back.
I used to also post on a couple other forums.

What people think of 'Calvinism' coming from either side may be a distortion.
It is very true we do receive Christ. And this is not 'forced'. We are taught by the Spirit.
Once we receive Him, God gives us an anointing to know the truth that is in Christ, and to continue to abide in Him.

1 John 2
18 Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the[d] Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you[e] know all things. 21 I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

Definitely way more complex than robotic, I have heard that used before. The relationship we have is definitely not one sided with God.

John 6
43 Jesus therefore answered and said to them, [h]“Do not murmur among yourselves. 44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day. 45 It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God.’ Therefore everyone who [i]has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me. 46 Not that anyone has seen the Father, except He who is from God; He has seen the Father. 47 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes [j]in Me has everlasting life.

We are also granted our belief in His Son.
There is a real Satan, and he blinds the minds of those who are perishing to prevent them from seeing light of the gospel in Christ.

Philippians 1
27 Only let your conduct be worthy of the gospel of Christ, so that whether I come and see you or am absent, I may hear of your affairs, that you stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel, 28 and not in any way terrified by your adversaries, which is to them a proof of perdition, but [f]to you of salvation, and that from God. 29 For to you it has been granted on behalf of Christ, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake, 30 having the same conflict which you saw in me and now hear is in me.

2 Cor 4

The Light of Christ’s Gospel​

1 Therefore, since we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we do not lose heart. 2 But we have renounced the hidden things of shame, not walking in craftiness nor [a]handling the word of God deceitfully, but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God. 3 But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, 4 whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them. 5 For we do not preach ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord, and ourselves your bondservants for Jesus’ sake. 6 For it is the God who commanded light to shine out of darkness, who has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.


I am glad God has shone His light in my heart.
I particularly like how Paul describes his own conversion

Galatians 1
11 But I make known to you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. 12 For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through the revelation of Jesus Christ.

13 For you have heard of my former conduct in Judaism, how I persecuted the church of God beyond measure and tried to destroy it. 14 And I advanced in Judaism beyond many of my contemporaries in my own nation, being more exceedingly zealous for the traditions of my fathers.

15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother’s womb and called me through His grace, 16 to reveal His Son in me, that I might preach Him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately confer with flesh and blood, 17 nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before me; but I went to Arabia, and returned again to Damascus.

 

[Ezra]

What people think of 'Calvinism' coming from either side may be a distortion.

no more like confusion coming from calvinism

 

[KUWN]

Hmmm, okay, so are all people going to be saved, KUWN? Is that what you think? Are you a universalist?

Explain how God wants all people saved but not all people are saved? How is that possible? Interpret the quoted verse, don't avoid it. I want an explanation as you see it. Asking questions is not an answer. Interpret the verse please.

Have I already answered this? I don't see where I answered it. And there is no date as to when this was written.