I had already owned two forums (really three) but only one of them was a larger and that was over 20 years ago (I had someone moderate) because I didnt know what to do with it, but we did not do any advertising or even take donations, and all of them were by invite only back then. Which was great because we wanted the most knowledgeable and easy going posters so it was always nice. But then then what happened was this other board which went from a small price to outrageous over night (with 30 days notice) and so I spent like $1000 on ink and just copied everything off of it to paper and just let it go after I had deleted everything from the forum (or so I think I did) who knows? "Deleting" conversations (even in private) has been replace with "leave" conversation (likely because nothing is really deleted and saying deleted could mean some trouble for someone legally if something actually wasnt). Anyway, I think that happened because they thought after all that time I would pay it versus lose the board (and everything on it). But I just copied it, deleted and ended it and went to email and phone and forgot about it.
Jesus was tempted
- Thread starter MatthewG
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I had already owned two forums (really three) but only one of them was a larger and that was over 20 years ago (I had someone moderate) because I didnt know what to do with it, but we did not do any advertising or even take donations, and all of them were by invite only back then. Which was great because we wanted the most knowledgeable and easy going posters so it was always nice. But then then what happened was this other board which went from a small price to outrageous over night (with 30 days notice) and so I spent like $1000 on ink and just copied everything off of it to paper and just let it go after I had deleted everything from the forum (or so I think I did) who knows? "Deleting" conversations (even in private) has been replace with "leave" conversation (likely because nothing is really deleted and saying deleted could mean some trouble for someone legally if something actually wasnt). Anyway, I think that happened because they thought after all that time I would pay it versus lose the board (and everything on it). But I just copied it, deleted and ended it and went to email and phone and forgot about it.
This is MatthiasG's thread, I'm surprised he has come down with the hammer of the off topic discussion here
Hobie
Well-Known Member
Now I was just going to ask you who you are referring to as the 'elite', and then I caught your intended insult, but that wasnt the forum I was even speaking of, I said after it, "But then then what happened was this other board which went from a small price to outrageous over night (which was the one I had for 20 years). The first (the larger one) I personally lost interest in keeping, I had a small child and I would pursue it later (which I again did).
Internet forums for the most part can be cesspools of strife, divisions, hate, bickerings. So I chose those who were not such (who you might snarkily refer to as the 'elite") so be it, you certainly wouldnt find me desirous to have fellowship with all the former.
It could have happened, right?
Disclaimer: this short article is all hypothetically. It bears no relationship to reality. Its purpose is to demonstrate how foolish it is to ask the question "Could Jesus have sinned?" It is a question that has no rational answer.
We are told in the Bible of the many temptations that Jesus faced during his earthly life. For example, in the Gospel of Matthew, we read the following:
Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. After he fasted forty days and forty nights (which means Jesus did not eat the mid-day meal during those 40 days, he could eat morning and evening) he was famished. The tempter came and said to him, "If you are the Son of God, command these stones to become bread."
And you know the rest of the story. Jesus quotes Scripture, and after all is said and done, he overcomes these temptations, and the devil departs for a while. We are told later by the writer of the book of Hebrews that Jesus was tempted in all points like we are.
Let’s take a look at what appears to have been a possibility: Jesus sinning. Some theologians believe that Christ could have sinned, otherwise the temptations were not temptations at all.
Let’s further speculate: What would have happened to Jesus had he sinned?
Well, a person who sins is a sinner. So, I guess the answer to this question is that Jesus would have become a sinner. But would God have abandoned Jesus? Would not God have provided a means of salvation for his now sinful son, as well as us?
He would have had to. I mean, God made promises to people long before Jesus was born, and many of those promises included salvation. Fortunately, even if Jesus failed/sinned, God the Father could have provided for our salvation, as well as Jesus’.
But, that raises yet another question, or better yet, a dilemma.
Since Jesus could have sinned (I speak as a man), I guess we would have to be consistent and say the God the Father could sin also. Why would he have been any different?
In fact, Jesus came to die on the cross for us. Assuming he sinned, God the Father would then have to go to the cross. Someone had to pay the penalty for sin! God loves the world because he is love.
Since we are thinking hypothetically, let’s further assume that God the Father would have come to earth to die for us, that is, God the Father would have had to pick up where Jesus left off, sort of speak.
Let’s follow this bizarre idea, since if Jesus could have sinned, such a possibility must have existed. We are only examining what the Bible tells us: That Jesus was tempted.
With Jesus a sinner, God the Father now offers himself as a sacrifice for the sins of the world.
So, God the Father comes to earth to die for our sins. But suppose He also yielded to temptation and sinned, just as his son did. (God forbid!)
That’s Two down, One to go. I mean, we believe in the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. With the Son and Father now sinners, the Holy Spirit is the last chance for all sinners, including now the Father and Son, both of whom have joined the ranks with us sinners.
As respectfully as I can, may I ask one final question: What if the Holy Spirit came to redeem all sinners, and what if, and I mean this is stretching it, but what if he also gave in to temptation and became a sinner?
If Jesus could have sinned, then it would follow that so could his equals (the Father and Holy Spirit).
Admittedly this did not happen, but we simply must conceive of what would have happened had Jesus sinned! If the temptations were real, he had to have been able to give in; otherwise the temptations were not real.
Anyone care to take a stab at solving this riddle or dilemma?
Disclaimer: this short article is all hypothetically. It bears no relationship to reality. Its purpose is to demonstrate how foolish it is to ask the question "Could Jesus have sinned?" It is a question that has no rational answer.
We are told in the Bible of the many temptations that Jesus faced during his earthly life. For example, in the Gospel of Matthew, we read the following:
Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. After he fasted forty days and forty nights (which means Jesus did not eat the mid-day meal during those 40 days, he could eat morning and evening) he was famished. The tempter came and said to him, "If you are the Son of God, command these stones to become bread."
And you know the rest of the story. Jesus quotes Scripture, and after all is said and done, he overcomes these temptations, and the devil departs for a while. We are told later by the writer of the book of Hebrews that Jesus was tempted in all points like we are.
Let’s take a look at what appears to have been a possibility: Jesus sinning. Some theologians believe that Christ could have sinned, otherwise the temptations were not temptations at all.
Let’s further speculate: What would have happened to Jesus had he sinned?
Well, a person who sins is a sinner. So, I guess the answer to this question is that Jesus would have become a sinner. But would God have abandoned Jesus? Would not God have provided a means of salvation for his now sinful son, as well as us?
He would have had to. I mean, God made promises to people long before Jesus was born, and many of those promises included salvation. Fortunately, even if Jesus failed/sinned, God the Father could have provided for our salvation, as well as Jesus’.
But, that raises yet another question, or better yet, a dilemma.
Since Jesus could have sinned (I speak as a man), I guess we would have to be consistent and say the God the Father could sin also. Why would he have been any different?
In fact, Jesus came to die on the cross for us. Assuming he sinned, God the Father would then have to go to the cross. Someone had to pay the penalty for sin! God loves the world because he is love.
Since we are thinking hypothetically, let’s further assume that God the Father would have come to earth to die for us, that is, God the Father would have had to pick up where Jesus left off, sort of speak.
Let’s follow this bizarre idea, since if Jesus could have sinned, such a possibility must have existed. We are only examining what the Bible tells us: That Jesus was tempted.
With Jesus a sinner, God the Father now offers himself as a sacrifice for the sins of the world.
So, God the Father comes to earth to die for our sins. But suppose He also yielded to temptation and sinned, just as his son did. (God forbid!)
That’s Two down, One to go. I mean, we believe in the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. With the Son and Father now sinners, the Holy Spirit is the last chance for all sinners, including now the Father and Son, both of whom have joined the ranks with us sinners.
As respectfully as I can, may I ask one final question: What if the Holy Spirit came to redeem all sinners, and what if, and I mean this is stretching it, but what if he also gave in to temptation and became a sinner?
If Jesus could have sinned, then it would follow that so could his equals (the Father and Holy Spirit).
Admittedly this did not happen, but we simply must conceive of what would have happened had Jesus sinned! If the temptations were real, he had to have been able to give in; otherwise the temptations were not real.
Anyone care to take a stab at solving this riddle or dilemma?
David Lamb
Active Member
I believe it boils down to what sin is. If it is disobedience of God's commands, as I believe it is, the idea of God going against His own will just doesn't make sense. Against whom would God be sinning, if, as you seem to say, God (whether the Father or the Son) could sin?
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
you are right about one thing , this article sure is hypotheical all right .
GOD would not have redeemed HIS SON had he sinned . HE SENT THE SON
KNOWING FULL WELL HE would accomplish HIS WILL , not fail , but overcome all
and even take on the trangressions of the world .
So as all who do beleive IN HIM would be saved and not perish but have everlasting life .
DO we really THINK in any way THAT GOD HIMSELF did not know HOW this was gonna turn out .
OH HE KNEW ALL RIGHT . HE KNEW ONLY HE , HIS WORD
could become flesh to DO what no man could , for the sakes of the world
to reconcile man back to HIM through FAITH IN JESUS THE CHRIST whom HE DID SEND .
Some people say that Jesus must have been able to sin if the temptations were real. That I don't believe that, but some people do. This article I wrote was to show that there are no possible (rational) outcomes if Jesus did sin. That's why I said this is a hypothetical article.
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Hiddenthings
Member
Imagine when you find out this was actually true - wow! Your head would spin with knowing what was achieved.
Lambano
Well-Known Member
If you define "sin" as disobedience against the Father's will, then sin becomes a rational possibility, since the Father and Son are separate persons and have distinct wills.
"Nevertheless, not my will, but thine be done." Luke 22:42
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Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
Jesus, as the son of his God and Father, had free will like all of God’s children who were created in his image. If Jesus did not have a separate will to his Father then his statement there in the Garden of Gethsemane, makes no rational sense.
If Jesus was 100% mortal human….as he had to be the “last Adam”, (or Adam’s equivalent) then he was as subject to sin as any sinless human could be.
The devil was a once sinless angel, but he made a bad choice and influenced others to make bad choices in order to achieve his goal…..to become a god to the humans….because he wanted worship.
Satan knew that Jesus could be tempted otherwise why would he have bothered to try?
Sinless perfection does not rule out disobedience as a choice. There were two trees in the garden….they could choose one for life…or the other for death……and perfect Adam chose to disobey his God…..he had no sin nature to blame but he did have freedom of choice, as he demonstrated there in Eden….he chose to side with his wife rather than to obey his God.
Since redemption requires an exchange of things of equal value, Jesus had to be what Adam was….a sinless human who took the sin of mankind on himself, and sacrificed his life for ours. He had to be 100% mortal to do that.
David Lamb
Active Member
Hiddenthings
Member
Wow David, you might have stumbled across something there - keep digging and I think a truth can be found.
Hiddenthings
Member
No distinct wills, since their wills function on an infinite, divine scale.
If God loves us with an infinite love, and if Jesus has an infinite love for us, then there is no distinction between their love for us. If God's will is infinite, and if Jesus' will chooses the same thing as the Father, again there is no difference. The gods of Greek mythology had differing attributes. Some deceived people, all had limited attributes such that there was a measurable difference in each god. Some of the "gods" were born, not eternal beings.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Chief you gots a whole lot of explaining to do with that comment .
HOW can totally trusting in CHRIST
How can telling all of the dire need to BELEIEVE ON JESUS
and there is no hope BUT HIM
Be SELF or even trusting IN SELF . I sure hope that is NOT what you meant .
THUS its why i wrote , YOU GOTS a WHOLE Lot of explaining to DO with that comment .
Simply put Jesus means Saviour, Salvation. that's what he is ! Our Lord and Saviour in fact ! and you only abide in him period !
People who say believe "on" ? are not Saved in fact ! what are you believing on, The Bible ! yes that's a good thing but I believe "in" Christ Jesus, for I am The Body of Christ and he is The Head their of !
I am believing in Christ Jesus because I am in Christ Jesus ! I am not on.
I may believe on the Bible, but one can not believe in the Bible.
Who ever said they believe on Jesus ? maybe they do believe on Salvation ? but they are not truly Saved ! yes they may have little faith, that's good ! but you need more in fact ! like the faith that can move mountains !
Christ it's self ? No it's Christ Jesus ! in fact ? because one may have another lord ? but when said in Christ Jesus, their is no mistaking such !
Thank you amigo. I hope that helps you some what.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
friend you can say beleive in or on . look at the writings . means the same thing .
All that work over one word . which means the same thing reggie .
Man reggie
lets back the truck up for just a second . You said people who say believe ON are not saved .
WELL I DARN SURE GO around exposing interfaith anti christ lie
ALWAYS reminding all to beleive IN CHRIST JESUS . so for a unsaved man
i seem to be doing far better than all these so called saved ones who follow that which is of anti christ .
WOW . who would have known all along i was not saved .
Maybe next time i should say IN and then I WILL be saved . OH thanks much reggie .
IN the mean time FLEE any appearance of interfaith IT IS OF ANTI CHRIST and all other relgions serve satan NOT GOD .
remember that . Lets preach JESUS to the lost , NOT satans interfaith interreligious dialouge
WHICH , GOOD NIGHT anti christ lips were moving big time . AS they LIED to all them false religoins
SAYING we all serve the same GOD , all coming to GOD differently . WHAT A HELL of a anti christ lie . SO do be sure
you saved ones heed this unsaved one . REALLY reggie . IN or ON . come now i think we can do better than that my friend .
And you know i loves ya reggie , so dont take this too hard . Just man come on fellow .
