PRETRIB RAPTURE ANCIENT ROOTS

[David in NJ]

Is that what you taught you.

Here is what the Word teaches.

Revelation 7
4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.


They are part of the body of the great multitude.


Exactly they are Christians. They are of the 12 tribes of Israel. This happens after the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.


Yeah, they are redeemed Christians from 12 tribes of Israel.


LOL. Mount Sion is not in heaven. I guess you missed the part where the 144,000 are redeemed FROM the earth.

Revelation 14
3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.


Right.

Sorry. They are first fruits that are redeemed from the earth. Jesus goes to Mount Sion and the 144,000 are gathered there, just like the Word says.


Obviously.


Doubtful. It seems you do not understand what first fruits are.


LOL. The are first fruits of the second harvest.

The fathers of Israel were seen as the first fruits but Israel was found as wild grapes. Israel would no longer be the first harvest of the fig tree as they served Baalpeor.

Hosea 9
10 I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as the firstripe in the fig tree at her first time: but they went to Baalpeor, and separated themselves unto that shame; and their abominations were according as they loved.

Whoops. There's that pesky Old Testament. It always gets in the with providing truth. No wonder you want to ban the use of it.


They are the first fruits of the second harvest of the fig tree. See Hosea 9:10 above.

The Gentiles become the first harvest. As the scripture shows, the fathers of Israel were supposed to be the first fruits. They weren't. After the pretribulation rapture of the Church there has to be first fruits of the second harvest. Hence the 144,000 from the 12 tribes.

Mount Sion is not in heaven

Hello my Brother in Christ,

The REAL Eternal Mt Zion is in Heaven = Hebrews chapter 12

For you have not come to a mountain that can be touched and that is burning with fire; to darkness, gloom, and storm; 19to a trumpet blast or to a voice that made its hearers beg that no further word be spoken. 20For they could not bear what was commanded: “If even an animal touches the mountain, it must be stoned.” 21The sight was so terrifying that even Moses said, “I am trembling with fear.”

22Instead, you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem.
You have come to myriads of angels 23in joyful assembly, to the congregation of the firstborn, enrolled in heaven. You have come to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

SHALOM

 

[David in NJ]

No intelligence.
No thoughtful intelligent debate.
More parroting postrib rapture workbook sentences.

For you have not come to a mountain that can be touched and that is burning with fire; to darkness, gloom, and storm; 19to a trumpet blast or to a voice that made its hearers beg that no further word be spoken. 20For they could not bear what was commanded: “If even an animal touches the mountain, it must be stoned.” 21The sight was so terrifying that even Moses said, “I am trembling with fear.”

22Instead, you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to myriads of angels 23in joyful assembly, to the congregation of the firstborn, enrolled in heaven. You have come to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

25See to it that you do not refuse Him who speaks. For if the people did not escape when they refused Him who warned them on earth, how much less will we escape if we reject Him who warns us from heaven? 26At that time His voice shook the earth, but now He has promised, “Once more I will shake not only the earth, but heaven as well.” 27The words “Once more” signify the removal of what can be shaken—that is, created things—so that the unshakable may remain.

28Therefore, since we are receiving an unshakable kingdom, let us be filled with gratitude, and so worship God acceptably with reverence and awe. 29“For our God is a consuming fire.”

 

[WPM]

How many times do you have to be answered. Everyone knows you MO. Deny, you've been answered.......deny, deny, deny.

I could answer a thousand times, and it would be DENY, DENY, DENY.

The reader can see for themselves how you are lying through your teeth:

It is time to give Pretrib a decent burial

Take them one at a time - if you can! Start with Number 1. Is that such a hard ask? No it's not. In the future, please list the question you want answered as I don't want to look them up. I'll list the first one. Here is question #1. Show us one Scripture that teaches that "the feasts of God...

www.christianityboard.com

On a side note, many of questions you ask want to limit the use of the Old Testament. Are you saying the Old Testament is not he Word of God?

2 Timothy 3
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Not true. Another lie. I asked both OT and NT and you have come up with nothing. You are promoting extra-biblical man-made teaching and you have no Scripture to support it.

 

[The Light]

LOL. You have no discernment whatsoever. They are in heaven after having been redeemed from the earth. Mount Zion IS in heaven. Have you never read this...

Hebrews 12:18 You have not come to a mountain that can be touched and that is burning with fire; to darkness, gloom and storm; 19 to a trumpet blast or to such a voice speaking words that those who heard it begged that no further word be spoken to them, 20 because they could not bear what was commanded: “If even an animal touches the mountain, it must be stoned to death.” 21 The sight was so terrifying that Moses said, “I am trembling with fear.” 22 But you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, 23 to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24 to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

Because of your extreme ignorance, you were not even aware that there is an earthly Mount Zion that can be touched and also a heavenly Mount Zion. Are you also not aware of "the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem" and think there is only an earthly Jerusalem?

LOL. John sees Jesus and a 144,000 on Mount Sion. John is on the earth. He hears a voice from heaven. It's not that I am unaware of a heavenly Mount Zion, it that I am not ignorant to FACT that John is on the earth and the 144,000 are redeemed FROM THE EARTH.

Revelation 14
2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

 

[WPM]

Is that what you taught you.

Here is what the Word teaches.

Revelation 7
4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.


They are part of the body of the great multitude.


Exactly they are Christians. They are of the 12 tribes of Israel. This happens after the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.


Yeah, they are redeemed Christians from 12 tribes of Israel.


LOL. Mount Sion is not in heaven. I guess you missed the part where the 144,000 are redeemed FROM the earth.

Revelation 14
3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.


Right.

Sorry. They are first fruits that are redeemed from the earth. Jesus goes to Mount Sion and the 144,000 are gathered there, just like the Word says.


Obviously.


Doubtful. It seems you do not understand what first fruits are.


LOL. The are first fruits of the second harvest.

The fathers of Israel were seen as the first fruits but Israel was found as wild grapes. Israel would no longer be the first harvest of the fig tree as they served Baalpeor.

Hosea 9
10 I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as the firstripe in the fig tree at her first time: but they went to Baalpeor, and separated themselves unto that shame; and their abominations were according as they loved.

Whoops. There's that pesky Old Testament. It always gets in the with providing truth. No wonder you want to ban the use of it.


They are the first fruits of the second harvest of the fig tree. See Hosea 9:10 above.

The Gentiles become the first harvest. As the scripture shows, the fathers of Israel were supposed to be the first fruits. They weren't. After the pretribulation rapture of the Church there has to be first fruits of the second harvest. Hence the 144,000 from the 12 tribes.

Do you know what the firstfruits of Israel really means? You're making them the last-fruits of Israel.

 

[WPM]

LOL. John sees Jesus and a 144,000 on Mount Sion. John is on the earth. He hears a voice from heaven. It's not that I am unaware of a heavenly Mount Zion, it that I am not ignorant to FACT that John is on the earth and the 144,000 are redeemed FROM THE EARTH.

Revelation 14
2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

Hello! They are there now!

 

[WPM]

You lied about addressing his questions. You did not. That was a blatant lie. So, look in the mirror.

Here is the evidence:

It is time to give Pretrib a decent burial

Take them one at a time - if you can! Start with Number 1. Is that such a hard ask? No it's not. In the future, please list the question you want answered as I don't want to look them up. I'll list the first one. Here is question #1. Show us one Scripture that teaches that "the feasts of God...

www.christianityboard.com

He tried to address one question, and even avoided it.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

LOL. John sees Jesus and a 144,000 on Mount Sion. John is on the earth.

LOL. He is seeing things in heaven, including the throne of God. Where is that? In heaven. Hello?

You said that there is no Mount Zion in heaven and I showed you otherwise in Hebrews 12. Are you too proud to admit you were wrong or can you admit that Hebrews 12:22 refers to a heavenly Mount Zion in contrast to the earthly Mount Zion referenced in Hebrews 12:18?

He hears a voice from heaven. It's not that I am unaware of a heavenly Mount Zion

LOL! Look at how you're backpeddling now! You are so incredibly dishonest. You need to repent of that! You specifically said there is no heavenly Mount Zion. You said "LOL. Mount Sion is not in heaven". That strongly comes across as you saying there is only one Mount Zion and it's not in heaven. You were proven wrong and, instead of admitting it, you're trying to act like you always believed there is a heavenly Mount Zion despite laughing at that idea not long before.

, it that I am not ignorant to FACT that John is on the earth and the 144,000 are redeemed FROM THE EARTH.

Revelation 14
2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

Being redeemed FROM the earth means they are not on earth anymore. Hello? Your doctrinal bias has completely blinded you.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Here is the evidence:

It is time to give Pretrib a decent burial

Take them one at a time - if you can! Start with Number 1. Is that such a hard ask? No it's not. In the future, please list the question you want answered as I don't want to look them up. I'll list the first one. Here is question #1. Show us one Scripture that teaches that "the feasts of God...

www.christianityboard.com

He tried to address one question, and even avoided it.

To act like he addressed all of the questions when barely addressing even one is a blatant lie and he won't admit it. Now, he's lying about knowing there is a heavenly Mount Zion after previously denying that there is one. It's amazing that people are willing to blatantly lie and twist scripture just to make it say what they want it to say. Unbelievable. But, we've seen that on this forum many times, especially from pre-tribs.

 

[The Light]

The reader can see for themselves how you are lying through your teeth:

It is time to give Pretrib a decent burial

Take them one at a time - if you can! Start with Number 1. Is that such a hard ask? No it's not. In the future, please list the question you want answered as I don't want to look them up. I'll list the first one. Here is question #1. Show us one Scripture that teaches that "the feasts of God...

www.christianityboard.com

Not true. Another lie. I asked both OT and NT and you have come up with nothing. You are promoting extra-biblical man-made teaching and you have no Scripture to support it.

Let's go back in time. How times have you made a list questions that I addressed and then you claimed that you were not answered.

I won't waste my time looking them up.

From that point, it is one question at a time. I won't waste my day with you.

If you have a question, I will be happy to answer it. If you have 10 questions, good luck............go back in history and you will find the answers to all of them.

 

[The Light]

You said that there is no Mount Zion in heaven

My quote is below. I don't see where is said "there is no Mount Zion in heaven." Jesus is on Mount Sion which is on the earth. The 144,000 are on the earth also. Then they get redeemed FROM the earth. That is when they become 1st fruits as they are presented before the throne of God.

"Mount Sion is not in heaven. I guess you missed the part where the 144,000 are redeemed FROM the earth."

and I showed you otherwise in Hebrews 12. Are you too proud to admit you were wrong or can you admit that Hebrews 12:22 refers to a heavenly Mount Zion in contrast to the earthly Mount Zion referenced in Hebrews 12:18?

You act like this is my first rodeo. Do you actually think this is the first time someone has tried to claim that the 144,000 are not on the earth but on Mount Zion in heaven? Please.

LOL! Look at how you're backpeddling now! You are so incredibly dishonest. You need to repent of that! You specifically said there is no heavenly Mount Zion.

Or you have changed my words as we can see above.

You throw that word liar around like you have no fear of God.

Being redeemed FROM the earth means they are not on earth anymore. Hello?

Wow. Congratulations. You got it. The 144,000 were on the earth with Jesus on Mount Sion and were redeemed from the earth. They become first fruits of the second fold.

 

[WPM]

Let's go back in time. How times have you made a list questions that I addressed and then you claimed that you were not answered.

I won't waste my time looking them up.

From that point, it is one question at a time. I won't waste my day with you.

If you have a question, I will be happy to answer it. If you have 10 questions, good luck............go back in history and you will find the answers to all of them.

LOL. Of course you will avoid. You have to. Your Pretrib error has long went up in a puff up smoke. It is dead.

Why can you not apologize for your lies?

 

[The Light]

To act like he addressed all of the questions when barely addressing even one is a blatant lie and he won't admit it. Now, he's lying about knowing there is a heavenly Mount Zion after previously denying that there is one. It's amazing that people are willing to blatantly lie and twist scripture just to make it say what they want it to say. Unbelievable. But, we've seen that on this forum many times, especially from pre-tribs.

Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.

 

[WPM]

My quote is below. I don't see where is said "there is no Mount Zion in heaven." Jesus is on Mount Sion which is on the earth. The 144,000 are on the earth also. Then they get redeemed FROM the earth. That is when they become 1st fruits as they are presented before the throne of God.

"Mount Sion is not in heaven. I guess you missed the part where the 144,000 are redeemed FROM the earth."


You act like this is my first rodeo. Do you actually think this is the first time someone has tried to claim that the 144,000 are not on the earth but on Mount Zion in heaven? Please.




Or you have changed my words as we can see above.

You throw that word liar around like you have no fear of God.


Wow. Congratulations. You got it. The 144,000 were on the earth with Jesus on Mount Sion and were redeemed from the earth. They become first fruits of the second fold.

Zion is shown here to be in heaven. The redeemed here have been delivered from this present age. Look at the inspired detail instead of what your teachers have misled you with.

Where does it say the 144,000 are raptured? This is more adding unto Scripture. This sums up every tenet of Pretrib.

You still haven't showed us your Pretrib Rapture in Revelation. That is because it is not there.

 

[The Light]

LOL. Of course you will avoid. You have to. Your Pretrib error has long went up in a puff up smoke. It is dead.

Why can you not apologize for your lies?

Your father must me be proud.

 

[rebuilder 454]

It would be very beneficial if you stopped doing that

I am close to putting you on ignore.
Hopefully you will step up, and not keep doing what you do.
I am not here to play your games.

 

[WPM]

Your father must me be proud.

More avoidance. The reader can see for themselves. You have no answer to the truth. Scripture destroys Pretrib.

 

[WPM]

I am close to putting you on ignore.
Hopefully you will step up, and not keep doing what you do.
I am not here to play your games.

LOL. Who cares who you put on ignore! You are doing him a favor!

 

[The Light]

Where does it say the 144,000 are raptured?

It says they are redeemed from the earth and are first fruits and before the throne.

First fruits are gathered and presented to the priest. You do the math.

You still haven't showed us your Pretrib Rapture in Revelation. That is because it is not there.

That's because we will escape the hour of temptation that will come on all the world. If you are looking for todays Church in the seals, trumpet of vials of Revelation you won't find it. First three chapters of Revelation.........Church..... Church,..... Church...... Church.....
Church,.....Church..... Church,..... Church...... Church.....Church,..... Beginning chapter 4 no mention of the Church.........you do the math.
Church
Luke 21
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

 

[The Light]

More avoidance. The reader can see for themselves. You have no answer to the truth. Scripture destroys Pretrib.

It's good to have you back. Deny, Deny, Deny.