Ai's analysis on "the great and dreadful day of the LORD" - your thoughts?

[Spiritual Israelite]

Imagine if you were a person who lived in Thessalonica.

This coming wrath wouldn't be 2,000 YEARS later.

This would be in conjunction with the coming great and dreadful day of the Lord.

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When Jesus comes in the future all unbelievers will experience God's wrath when being cast into the lake of fire and Jesus rescues all of us from that. In no way, shape or forum did Paul say anything there to indicate that "the coming wrath" had to occur soon. If you think that relates to 70 AD, why would Paul have written to people in Thessalonica about being rescued from God's wrath that occurred in Jerusalem?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

okay, that a friendly reply. I am a futurist. How would you describe your overall view - historist? partial preterist ?

He is a full preterist.

 

[MatthewG]

He is a full preterist.

Preterist has a lot of facets to it. I don't claim preterism though I believe things have happened in the past.

I believe in the fulfillment of Christ, sir. Please understand that.

 

[MatthewG]

When Jesus comes in the future all unbelievers will experience God's wrath when being cast into the lake of fire and Jesus rescues all of us from that. In no way, shape or forum did Paul say anything there to indicate that "the coming wrath" had to occur soon. If you think that relates to 70 AD, why would Paul have written to people in Thessalonica about being rescued from God's wrath that occurred in Jerusalem?

I hope you see it, sir.

I believe you are mistaken, did you read the 1 thessalonians had shared earlier? That is Paul, writing concerning the coming wrath. This indicates it was coming, perhaps even started already.

 

[MatthewG]

Ill use the bible against false ideas and things people suggest!

When it comes to those want a discussion but when its a truth given many people back away.

Hold on to whatever you want but I believe Yahavah can shake peoples faith which can bring them to a faith which is not shakable.


Ive been on here for the past several years bringing up different points of value, I still have not moved from them or been shaken by Yahavah because of what other people have been sayings....

End of the world
Jesus is coming back
Satan is still around.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I'm someone who believes Yeshua completed everything and has handed everything back to his Father and we live in a restored world today - where the evil that exist, resides within our own selves....



But most of the time, people are gonna try to deflect, and they will tear apart scriptures, and they wont read.... and that is the sad part.


They wont read the bible for themselves, and they continue to believe other people and what they believe because "majority rules right."


Go figure... lol. Im fine where I am, and people think I am a devil, a con-man, a false teacher, a deceiver yada yada yada.

Believe whatever you want, you are going to anyway, but don't believe me... read the bible for yourself.

 

[MatthewG]

Here we see the Wrath had already started in that day.

1 Thessalonians 2





Doesn't suggest anything about us today.... but look the wrath of God had come upon them at last.

 

[MatthewG]

This of course would build up over time, until the very great and dreadful...

DAY.

Of the LORD.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Preterist has a lot of facets to it. I don't claim preterism though I believe things have happened in the past.

I believe in the fulfillment of Christ, sir. Please understand that.

You have admitted to being a full preterist in the past. You don't believe in a future bodily coming of Jesus Christ, right?

 

[MatthewG]

You have admitted to being a full preterist in the past. You don't believe in a future bodily coming of Jesus Christ, right?

I believe he did come, and those whom were faithful seen him. Just as those Angels said he would come back in like manner.

Just cause I believe things and said things, doesn't mean I am unable to change mind. I don't even know even know what a Full Preterist believe.

I just believe in fulfillment of Jesus Christ and his promises. I do not believe he is coming back a second time.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I believe he did come, and those whom were faithful seen him. Just as those Angels said he would come back in like manner.

The manner in which He left was visibly and bodily. They literally saw Him ascend bodily towards heaven. He has not yet descended bodily and visibly from heaven. You are deceived by the false doctrine of full preterism. It's heresy to not believe in the future glorious visible and bodily appearing of our Great God and Savior Jesus Christ.

Just cause I believe things and said things, doesn't mean I am unable to change mind.

You need to change your mind about this.

I don't even know even know what a Full Preterist believe.

A full preterist believes what you believe. That Jesus Christ already returned and is not returning in the future.

I just believe in fulfillment of Jesus Christ and his promises. I do not believe he is coming back a second time.

Then you are a heretic because He most certainly is coming back in the future. You deny our blessed hope, the future appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ.

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people. 12 It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age, 13 while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, 14 who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good.

1 John 3:1 Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.

Are you like Him yet with a glorified, immortal body? No. So, He is not come back yet. When He does, we will see Him as He is and will be made to be like Him with a glorified, immortal body. That will happen at the last trumpet (1 Corinthians 15:50-54).

 

[MatthewG]

The manner in which He left was visibly and bodily. They literally saw Him ascend bodily towards heaven. He has not yet descended bodily and visibly from heaven. You are deceived by the false doctrine of full preterism. It's heresy to not believe in the future glorious visible and bodily appearing of our Great God and Savior Jesus Christ.


You need to change your mind about this.


A full preterist believes what you believe. That Jesus Christ already returned and is not returning in the future.


Then you are a heretic because He most certainly is coming back in the future. You deny our blessed hope, the future appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ.

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people. 12 It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age, 13 while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, 14 who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good.

1 John 3:1 Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.

Are you like Him yet with a glorified, immortal body? No. So, He is not come back yet. When He does, we will see Him as He is and will be made to be like Him with a glorified, immortal body. That will happen at the last trumpet (1 Corinthians 15:50-54).

I don't want to change my mind on this.

Thank you for telling your honest opinion of me being a Heretic, because it most certainly is a divisional point for most people.

KJV: heretic (the Greek word itself)
NASB: factious
Word Origin: [from a derivative of G138 (αἱρέομαι - choose)]

1. schismatic, discordant, divisive


That doesn't shake my faith though, cause I've been called all kinds of things.


Thanks my guy, SI.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I don't want to change my mind on this.

There's no excuse for your stubbornness. Jesus clearly has not yet returned or else we would be with Him now and see Him as He is now and have an immortal, glorified body like He has now.

Thank you for telling your honest opinion of me being a Heretic, because it most certainly is a divisional point for most people.

KJV: heretic (the Greek word itself)
NASB: factious
Word Origin: [from a derivative of G138 (αἱρέομαι - choose)]

1. schismatic, discordant, divisive


That doesn't shake my faith though, cause I've been called all kinds of things.


Thanks my guy, SI.

You've been shown the truth, so you have no excuse for rejecting it. Keep thinking about it and stop believing what you want to believe and instead believe what scripture teaches whether it's what you want to believe or not.

 

[MatthewG]

There's no excuse for your stubbornness. Jesus clearly has not yet returned or else we would be with Him now and see Him as He is now and have an immortal, glorified body like He has now.


You've been shown the truth, so you have no excuse for rejecting it. Keep thinking about it and stop believing what you want to believe and instead believe what scripture teaches whether it's what you want to believe or not.

If you say so bud. I don't care what you want to believe that is between you and Yahavah.

Not between you and me, sir. That is where people like to bully other people about their beliefs... I am not all about that.

 

[MatthewG]

It's a wonderful life we get to live subjective to Yahavah.

To me, I don't care if people believe the devil is still around, and that the world is gonna end, and that JEsus is gonna come back soooooon!



Those things just do not any longer bother me, people are allowed to believe them if they so choose but its very hard to get around the presented narrative of those people in that day.

Most just believe in "DOUBLE PROPHECY" type of deal.


I do not. There was only one coming and that was to them then in that day.



If it rattles your faith well I am sorry, I am not gonna change just cause you as a human being whom I love, want me to.


I hope da bes for u and all! Love you!

You have the freedom to choose for yourself what you are gonna believe and don't need anyone to tell you otherwise!

 

[rwb]

I believe he did come, and those whom were faithful seen him. Just as those Angels said he would come back in like manner.

Just cause I believe things and said things, doesn't mean I am unable to change mind. I don't even know even know what a Full Preterist believe.

I just believe in fulfillment of Jesus Christ and his promises. I do not believe he is coming back a second time.

How do you reconcile your belief with this passage from Scripture? " I do not believe he is coming back a second time."

Heb 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
Heb 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

 

[MatthewG]

How do you reconcile your belief with this passage from Scripture? " I do not believe he is coming back a second time."

Heb 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
Heb 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

The writer of Hebrews was writing Hebrews. Jesus had already shown up one time, as the Word of God incarnate.

Guess what the message was when Yeshua had ascended? That he would come back in like manner.

I don't believe in the modern day "second coming" people espouse. Yeshua shown up already to the Jewish people, once.

 

[rwb]

The writer of Hebrews was writing Hebrews. Jesus had already shown up one time, as the Word of God incarnate.

Guess what the message was when Yeshua had ascended? That he would come back in like manner.

I don't believe in the modern day "second coming" people espouse. Yeshua shown up already to the Jewish people, once.

Yes, Jesus has already come to earth clothed in human flesh. Since Scripture tells us He shall come again in like manner in which He departed from this earth, clothed in human flesh, how do you reconcile your opinion that Christ has already returned to the Jewish people again since none living in 70 AD speak of Christ returning again in human flesh then?

Just as it was necessary for Christ to resurrect from death clothed in human flesh, to prove death had no power over Him, could the Jewish people alive in 70 AD believe Christ had come again, as He said He would, since none of them physically saw Him?

Ac 1:2 Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:
Ac 1:3 To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:

The disciples witnessed Jesus ascending out of their sight because He ascended clothed in physical flesh. In like manner (physical flesh) He shall return again, or Christ would not have said when He comes with clouds; "every eye shall see Him."

Acts 1:9-11 (KJV) And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Revelation 1:7 (KJV) Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

 

[MatthewG]

Yes, Jesus has already come to earth clothed in human flesh. Since Scripture tells us He shall come again in like manner in which He departed from this earth, clothed in human flesh, how do you reconcile your opinion that Christ has already returned to the Jewish people again since none living in 70 AD speak of Christ returning again in human flesh then?

Just as it was necessary for Christ to resurrect from death clothed in human flesh, to prove death had no power over Him, could the Jewish people alive in 70 AD believe Christ had come again, as He said He would, since none of them physically saw Him?

Ac 1:2 Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:
Ac 1:3 To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:

The disciples witnessed Jesus ascending out of their sight because He ascended clothed in physical flesh. In like manner (physical flesh) He shall return again, or Christ would not have said when He comes with clouds; "every eye shall see Him."

Acts 1:9-11 (KJV) And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Revelation 1:7 (KJV) Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

It doesn't work that way for me. Maybe for you, but not myself.

I believe Jesus came one time, only once, a second time in that day in age, it was only the faithful people which was the bride of Christ that seen him and was rescued from that coming wrath, which was on the great and dreadful day of the LORD.

That every eye shall see him is only regarding the faithful. Faithless people in that day wouldn't see him, they wouldn't care, but they would witness the destruction.

 

[rwb]

It doesn't work that way for me. Maybe for you, but not myself.

I believe Jesus came one time, only once, a second time in that day in age, it was only the faithful people which was the bride of Christ that seen him and was rescued from that coming wrath, which was on the great and dreadful day of the LORD.

That every eye shall see him is only regarding the faithful. Faithless people in that day wouldn't see him, they wouldn't care, but they would witness the destruction.

How do you biblically PROVE that faithful people; the bride of Christ saw Him coming with wrath since you are unable to disprove what is written? Just because you believe the great and dreadful day of the LORD is past does not make it truth! You MUST PROVE what you allege with the Bible, and sadly it seems your doctrine is built on what you think rather than what can be proven through the written Word.

How is witnessing the destruction that came upon the Jewish nation through the wrath of God proof that Christ came again in that day in like manner as He said He would?

 

[MatthewG]

How do you biblically PROVE that faithful people; the bride of Christ saw Him coming with wrath since you are unable to disprove what is written? Just because you believe the great and dreadful day of the LORD is past does not make it truth! You MUST PROVE what you allege with the Bible, and sadly it seems your doctrine is built on what you think rather than what can be proven through the written Word.

How is witnessing the destruction that came upon the Jewish nation through the wrath of God proof that Christ came again in that day in like manner He said He would?

I cant. Don't believe me, just look at the narrative of the bible itself.

I believe it faithfully. You won't be able to pull many slick moves with me.

You are more than free to believe whatever you want.


People always calling the apostles liars, and Paul was wrong, and even Yeshua was wrong as well.

People are so funny to me, I love em, and you too!