PRETRIB RAPTURE ANCIENT ROOTS

[No Pre-TB]

Pre is easy.
No additives
No pollutants.
Jesus words

Thank you for your opinion.

 

[The Light]

Ok, let’s work on the first part. You believe we are resurrected before the 6th seal, which is before the wrath which begins at the 7th seal.

I believe that the Church is raptured before Revelation 6, before the seals are opened.

In order for us to be resurrected before the 6th seal, I’d look for a few things. To name a few:

Let me clarify. The Church is raptured before the seals are opened. There is however a rapture at the 6th seal. It is the 12 tribes across the earth that are raptured. The twelve tribes across the earth are the seed of the woman, Israel.

1. A last trumpet as the final trumpet in a series or the last trumpet as in no other could blow after it.

The last trump is the last trump blown in a series of 100 trumpets blown on the Feast of Trumpets.

With this, id still have to consider there yet remains 7 trumpets to be blown in a series. If we take this as the last trumpet and let’s pretend it is in the 7th trumpet, is there any logic to that? Something I’d explore before casting it out.

In my opinion, the last of the 7 trumpets blown by an angel would not be the last trump because when Paul wrote this John had not had his Revelation of Jesus Christ. Paul offered no explanation of what the last trump was because all Jews know that the last trump is blown on the Feast of Trumpets.

2. What does scripture say about the timing of our change and does it harmonize with a resurrection at, before or after the 6th seal?

The are two raptures. The first rapture is the Church. After the Church is raptured, part of Isael has its blindness removed.

Romans 11
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

God then turns His attention to the Jews. It is the twelve tribes across the earth, the seed of the woman, that are raptured at the 6th seal before the wrath of God.

3. A hypothetical: Would an exiled leader reward his subjects, who eagerly await his return, before he’s crowned King or afterwards?

When Jesus returns for the Church He comes as a bridegroom for His bride. When Jesus comes with the armies of heaven back to the earth for Armageddon He comes as king of kings.

Revelation 19
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

 

[WPM]

I believe that the Church is raptured before Revelation 6, before the seals are opened.



Let me clarify. The Church is raptured before the seals are opened. There is however a rapture at the 6th seal. It is the 12 tribes across the earth that are raptured. The twelve tribes across the earth are the seed of the woman, Israel.

The last trump is the last trump blown in a series of 100 trumpets blown on the Feast of Trumpets.


In my opinion, the last of the 7 trumpets blown by an angel would not be the last trump because when Paul wrote this John had not had his Revelation of Jesus Christ. Paul offered no explanation of what the last trump was because all Jews know that the last trump is blown on the Feast of Trumpets.


The are two raptures. The first rapture is the Church. After the Church is raptured, part of Isael has its blindness removed.

Romans 11
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

God then turns His attention to the Jews. It is the twelve tribes across the earth, the seed of the woman, that are raptured at the 6th seal before the wrath of God.

When Jesus returns for the Church He comes as a bridegroom for His bride. When Jesus comes with the armies of heaven back to the earth for Armageddon He comes as king of kings.

Revelation 19
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

Where is your first rapture in Revelation? Is Revelation 19 your 3rd rapture?

 

[No Pre-TB]

The Church is raptured before the seals are opened. There is however a rapture at the 6th seal. It is the 12 tribes across the earth that are raptured. The twelve tribes across the earth are the seed of the woman, Israel.

Let’s focus 1 thing at a time. It sounds like you’re suggesting 2 raptures. Do you have scripture to support more than 1? For example, Paul, specifically links the Harpazo with the resurrection of the dead. When gives the order of things, he says the dead in Christ rise first. Then we which are alive and survive..
When is the Harpazo linked to a second time and not with the resurrection of the dead?

 

[The Light]

Let’s focus 1 thing at a time. It sounds like you’re suggesting 2 raptures.

Yes absolutely. Two raptures.

Do you have scripture to support more than 1?

Sure. Many, scriptures point to two raptures. Here are a couple

This is the rapture of the Church. The Lord Himself comes at the trump of God or voice of God.
1 Thes 4
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

This is the second rapture when He comes for the 12 tribes across the earth at the 6th seal. He sends His angels to gather the elect at the last trump which is blown on the Feast of Trumpets.

1 Corinthians 15
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

For example, Paul, specifically links the Harpazo with the resurrection of the dead. When gives the order of things, he says the dead in Christ rise first. Then we which are alive and survive..

This is order I believe. The dead rise first. The alive remain. When the Lord comes for the alive that remain, He brings the dead in Christ with Him.

When is the Harpazo linked to a second time and not with the resurrection of the dead?

Each in his own order. First fruits and then they that are His at His coming.

The dead in Christ rise first. Then He returns for the alive that remain. Then blindness is removed from part of Israel.

Then there are 144,000 first fruits of the 12 tribes which means there will be a harvest of the 12 tribes. That harvest takes place at the 6th seal immediately after the tribulation which is seen here.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

We also see in Daniel 12 that MANY of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake. No all of them, MANY of them. These are the people of Daniel that are raised.

Daniel 12
12 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

 

[WPM]

Yes absolutely. Two raptures.

Sure. Many, scriptures point to two raptures. Here are a couple

This is the rapture of the Church. The Lord Himself comes at the trump of God or voice of God.
1 Thes 4
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

This is the second rapture when He comes for the 12 tribes across the earth at the 6th seal. He sends His angels to gather the elect at the last trump which is blown on the Feast of Trumpets.

1 Corinthians 15
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

This is order I believe. The dead rise first. The alive remain. When the Lord comes for the alive that remain, He brings the dead in Christ with Him.

Each in his own order. First fruits and then they that are His at His coming.

The dead in Christ rise first. Then He returns for the alive that remain. Then blindness is removed from part of Israel.

Then there are 144,000 first fruits of the 12 tribes which means there will be a harvest of the 12 tribes. That harvest takes place at the 6th seal immediately after the tribulation which is seen here.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

We also see in Daniel 12 that MANY of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake. No all of them, MANY of them. These are the people of Daniel that are raised.

Daniel 12
12 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

1 Thess 4 proves that Jesus comes "for" and "with" His saints, destroying the Pretrib theory that He is only coming for His saints. You have not addressed this or any of the other arguments. when Christ comes again it is with and for His saints in one glorious single second coming. Verse 14 explicitly states, “them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.” This is the dead in Christ returning for their bodies in order to return to this renewed earth. Furthermore, the second party of Christians at this great climatic event are those believers that are “alive” are said to “remain.” Interestingly, when we examine the meaning of the word “remain,” we find it is the Greek word perileipo, which means “to survive.” Therefore, we can deduce from this meaning that the Lord is returning for those who remain by surviving.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

1 Thess 4 proves that Jesus comes "for" and "with" His saints, destroying the Pretrib theory that He is only coming for His saints. You have not addressed this or any of the other arguments. when Christ comes again it is with and for His saints in one glorious single second coming. Verse 14 explicitly states, “them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.” This is the dead in Christ returning for their bodies in order to return to this renewed earth. Furthermore, the second party of Christians at this great climatic event are those believers that are “alive” are said to “remain.” Interestingly, when we examine the meaning of the word “remain,” we find it is the Greek word perileipo, which means “to survive.” Therefore, we can deduce from this meaning that the Lord is returning for those who remain by surviving.

Agree. Anyone who sees two raptures in 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17, as @The Light does, clearly is just twisting scripture to make it say what they want it to say to fit their convoluted understanding of Revelation. Paul was very clear in 1 Thess 4:14-17 that there will be one rapture of the church at which point the souls of the dead in Christ that are with Jesus will unite with their resurrected bodies and then they, TOGETHER with those who are alive and remain, will be caught up to meet Jesus in the air AT THE SAME TIME. This could not be more clear, yet he still denies this because it goes against his false doctrine.

 

[WPM]

Agree. Anyone who sees two raptures in 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17, as @The Light does, clearly is just twisting scripture to make it say what they want it to say to fit their convoluted understanding of Revelation. Paul was very clear in 1 Thess 4:14-17 that there will be one rapture of the church at which point the souls of the dead in Christ that are with Jesus will unite with their resurrected bodies and then they, TOGETHER with those who are alive and remain, will be caught up to meet Jesus in the air AT THE SAME TIME. This could not be more clear, yet he still denies this because it goes against his false doctrine.

Exactly! All he has is insults and avoidance. Read his posts. He cannot substantiate any of his sweeping claims. If the Left Behind series says something then it is Gospel. Who cares about the Word!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Not a problem
It is in the 7 letters.

Next.

Ironic that you, with your false doctrine, accuses others of false doctrine.

You say it's not a problem to back up your belief in 2 raptures and then you proceed to do NOTHING to back it up besides this vague response. It is impossible to take you and your vague nonsense seriously. You accuse others of having false doctrine while being completely incapable of making a coherent argument to support your own. You are 100% delusional. Your arguments are the weakest arguments I've ever seen.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Pre is easy.
No additives
No pollutants.
Jesus words

How about showing what you believe using scripture then? Vague comments like this do nothing to support your doctrine. Use scripture to clearly show how you come to your conclusions. Can you do that? You haven't so far. If you can't do that then there is no reason whatsoever to take anything you say seriously. Prove your doctrine with scripture. Your own words prove nothing.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

It is noticeable how @marks never sees or rebukes these vicious posts.

Yes, it's very convenient that he somehow always misses the posts containing insults from pre-tribs, isn't it?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

every man should be able to give an account of his beliefs. I’d hope none of us would duck out. I know you will give answers on your beliefs WPM. You are pretty consistent, that’s a good quality. I’d hope we all would even if we have to do it often.

I have followed the same discussion that WPM is talking about and The Light claimed to have answered WPM's questions when he absolutely did not. I'm not saying he didn't answer them the way WPM would have liked. I'm saying he did not attempt to answer them at all except for a brief, vague response to the first of several questions. But, he said he did answer all of them. He did not. What else do we call that except for a lie?

 

[The Light]

Agree. Anyone who sees two raptures in 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17, as @The Light does, clearly is just twisting scripture to make it say what they want it to say to fit their convoluted understanding of Revelation. Paul was very clear in 1 Thess 4:14-17 that there will be one rapture of the church at which point the souls of the dead in Christ that are with Jesus will unite with their resurrected bodies and then they, TOGETHER with those who are alive and remain, will be caught up to meet Jesus in the air AT THE SAME TIME. This could not be more clear, yet he still denies this because it goes against his false doctrine.

The alive will not precede the dead. The dead in Christ rise first. The alive remain. When He comes for the alive that remain, He will bring the dead in Christ with Him. The alive will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The alive will not precede the dead. The dead in Christ rise first. The alive remain.

LOL. What do you mean "the alive remain"? Where does it say that the alive remain after the dead are caught up to Christ? Nowhere. When it says the dead in Christ rise first it means they will first be resurrected and then those who are still alive and remain until the coming of the Lord at that time will be caught up together with the resurrected dead in Christ to meet Jesus in the air. One rapture. Not two. You are butchering the text.

When He comes for the alive that remain, He will bring the dead in Christ with Him. The alive will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.

In no way, shape or form does Paul say that Jesus first comes for the dead in Christ and then some time later comes for those who are alive and remain. It very clearly says the dead in Christ and those who are alive and remain are caught up together at the same time. Stop twisting scripture to make it fit your doctrine. It's unacceptable for you to be so dishonest with scripture like this.

 

[The Light]

I have followed the same discussion that WPM is talking about and The Light claimed to have answered WPM's questions when he absolutely did not. I'm not saying he didn't answer them the way WPM would have liked. I'm saying he did not attempt to answer them at all except for a brief, vague response to the first of several questions. But, he said he did answer all of them. He did not. What else do we call that except for a lie?

We call that........this isn't the only thread he has asked those questions in.

We call that..........look how many times he claims other posters have not answered him, when they have. That's all he's got.

And you know that he changed the translation of the Word of God in past to fool Christians and was caught. And you defended this action.

 

[No Pre-TB]

Sure. Many, scriptures point to two raptures. Here are a couple

You quoted 1 Thess 4 and 1 Cor 15. In the first, Paul describes the rapture as an event sometime (not necessarily immediately) after the resurrection. In his letter to the Corinthians, he mentions the same “living” and dead event by saying all will be changed, not just the dead. I don’t see anything that Paul suggests with these 2 passages a separation of 2 raptures. What other scriptures show a rapture? The Daniel 12 one is the resurrection, not rapture.

Then there are 144,000 first fruits of the 12 tribes which means there will be a harvest of the 12 tribes. That harvest takes place at the 6th seal immediately after the tribulation which is seen here.

The fact the 144k are redeemed tells us they are part of the church. I believe they will be part of the resurrection or rapture, but a single event that includes all the dead and living at that 1 time. As you pointed out, Christ the first fruits, then we at his coming. His Parousia is when this happens. Paul makes mention of this multiple times and it has correlation with his manifestation as we see in Matthew 24:3, 27, 37, 39; 1 Cor 15:23, 1Thess 2:19, 3:13, 4:15, 5:23, and James 5:7 to name a few.

Now you said a rapture happens at the 6th seal. Which verse in the 6th seal is a rapture?
Once we can address these things, we can talk about what constitutes wrath, if we make it that far

 

[WPM]

We call that........this isn't the only thread he has asked those questions in.

We call that..........look how many times he claims other posters have not answered him, when they have. That's all he's got.

And you know that he changed the translation of the Word of God in past to fool Christians and was caught. And you defended this action.

LOL. Here we go again. You avoid for an actual reason - because you have no Scripture to support your claims. You are winging it, and you know it, and we know it. If you had Scripture you would give it in a heartbeat.

1. Where is your Pretrib rapture in Revelation?
2. Is Revelation 19 your 3rd rapture?
3. Where is your tribulation period following Matthew 24:44 (or any other rapture passage)?
4. Show us one Scripture that teaches that "the feasts of God are a picture of the end times"?
5. Show me New Testament Scripture that teaches that “there are two harvests? The grain harvest and the fruit harvest”?
6. Where is "the grain harvest" mentioned in the New Testament?
7. Where is "the fruit harvest " mentioned in the New Testament?
8. Where is "the barley harvest" that you have previously invented and foisted on Scripture mentioned in the New Testament?
9. Where is "the wheat harvest" that you have previously invented and foisted on Scripture mentioned in the New Testament?
10. Where is all this jargon about "on the Feast of Trumpets, the fall harvest feast" in the New Testament text or in any rapture passage?
11. Where in the New Testament does it say “there are two raptures – grain and fruit”?
12. Where does it say anywhere in Scripture that “Noah is a picture of the Pretrib rapture” and “Lot is a picture of the Jewish harvest”?

 

[The Light]

I don’t see anything that Paul suggests with these 2 passages a separation of 2 raptures. What other scriptures show a rapture?

The Lord comes as lightning in His day. And yet He told the disciples that they would desire to see one of the days of the Son of man.
Luke 17
22 And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it.

23 And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after them, nor follow them.

24 For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day.

The Lord will come when it is like the days of Noah. Likewise, also He will come when it is like the days of Lot. Not the same.
The Lord Himself will come for the Church. The Lord will send His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth. Not the same.
The Lord will come at the trump of God or voice of God, and the Lord will come at the last trump blown on the feast of Trumpets. Not the same.
When the Lord comes for the Church, 1 Thes 4, the dead in Christ rise first and the alive remain until He returns, When He sends His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth, the dead and alive are changed in the twinkling of an eye. Not the same.
Jacob had two brides, Leah and the chosen bride Rachel. Not the same.

John 10
14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

There are two folds of sheep. The first fold knows Him and He knows them. The Gentiles are the first fold.
There are other sheep not of the first fold that He must also bring. The second fold will be of the 12 tribes as they will have their eyes opened after the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. The two folds become one fold at the gathering from heaven and earth. The Church is gathered from heaven and the 12 tribes across the earth, the seed of the woman, are gathered from the earth. The two folds become one fold, the Israel of God, which is the great multitude.

There are other things also which prove two raptures.

The Daniel 12 one is the resurrection, not rapture.

No sir. Daniel 12 is about the people of Daniel.

Daniel 12
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Daniel 12 also shows that many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall be raised.
Daniel 12
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

This resurrection occurs at the 6th seal. It is when Daniels people are delivered. The dead and alive are changed in the twinkling of an eye.
All go to heaven for the marriage supper and along with the Church are the great multitude. Then the 7th seal will be opened and the one year wrath of God will begin.

The fact the 144k are redeemed tells us they are part of the church.

Yes, they are part of the second fold. Todays Church will be the first fold. After the fullness of the Gentiles comes in God will turn His attention to His chosen.

I believe they will be part of the resurrection or rapture, but a single event that includes all the dead and living at that 1 time.

No. This cannot be correct. As we can see from scripture it is the people of Daniel that are delivered after the great tribulation at the 6th seal. And we know the great tribulation is not the wrath of God.

There are dead that are judged after the 7th trumpet.

Daniel 12
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

As you pointed out, Christ the first fruits, then we at his coming.

Right. Each in His order. First fruits and then they that are Christs at His coming.

Christ is the first fruits of the dead in Christ. When He comes He will come for the dead in Christ first. Then He will return for the alive that remain. After the fullness of the Gentiles comes in part of Israel will have its eyes opened. This is the 12 tribes across the earth, the seed of the woman, Irael.

It starts over after first harvest which is the grain harvest. Then there is first fruits..........144,000 from twelve tribes...........and then they that are Christs at His coming.........at the 6th seal..........when the people of Daniel are delivered. Then the 7th seal is opened and the wrath of God begins.

The woman Israel remains on earth with the unbelievers, but she is in a place of protection. None of Gods people are appointed to wrath.

His Parousia is when this happens. Paul makes mention of this multiple times and it has correlation with his manifestation as we see in Matthew 24:3, 27, 37, 39; 1 Cor 15:23, 1Thess 2:19, 3:13, 4:15, 5:23, and James 5:7 to name a few.

These are not all the same event. There are two folds. Additionally, there are those judged after the 7th trumpet.

Revelation 11
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Now you said a rapture happens at the 6th seal. Which verse in the 6th seal is a rapture?

This is where simple deductive reasoning comes in. When the 6th seal is opened the sun and the moon are darkened, and the stars fall from heaven. When Jesus comes in Matthew 24, we see the same sun and moon darkened and the stars falling from heaven. This means that event of the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 occur at the sixth seal.

What can we then conclude?
1. The great tribulation which is the tribulation of those days is over at the 6th seal.
2. Jesus sends His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth at the 6th seal.............second fold rapture of the people of Daniel.


Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Once we can address these things, we can talk about what constitutes wrath, if we make it that far

Ok

 

[Jesus Wept]

No matter where we are at on the Eschatological time line, the return of Christ has always been imminent.

 

[WPM]

The Lord will come when it is like the days of Noah. Likewise, also He will come when it is like the days of Lot. Not the same.
The Lord Himself will come for the Church. The Lord will send His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth. Not the same.
The Lord will come at the trump of God or voice of God, and the Lord will come at the last trump blown on the feast of Trumpets. Not the same.
When the Lord comes for the Church, 1 Thes 4, the dead in Christ rise first and the alive remain until He returns, When He sends His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth, the dead and alive are changed in the twinkling of an eye. Not the same.
Jacob had two brides, Leah and the chosen bride Rachel. Not the same.

There is something wrong with your eyes. You have double vision. There is only one final future climactic return of Jesus. There's no space for your imaginary 3rd coming.

The plain focus of this teaching in Luke 17 (reference Noah and Lot’s day) is the nature and degree of the judgment that befell the wicked in these two familiar Old Testament stories and especially the extent of that particular wrath. The key element and major emphasis of this discourse is the fact (speaking of the ungodly) that God “destroyed them all.” The comprehensive destruction of the wicked in both of these examples is the important lesson of the narrative; both the whole world of Noah’s day and the whole individual city of Sodom in Lot’s day saw the immediate and complete rescue of the entire righteous coupled together with the immediate and complete destruction of the entire wicked.

Christ plainly and purposefully advanced these two days, where the righteous were graciously rescued just prior to the full annihilation of the wicked, in order to vividly portray the nature and scope of the day of His wrath at the second coming. He deliberates and graphically connected the happenings of both these former days of judgment to the day of His return. Jesus succinctly said, “Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed” (Luke 17:30).

Q. Why must we “remember Lot's wife”? What befell her?

She got caught in the escape out of Sodom because her heart was still there. Despite being fully aware of the impending destruction, Lot's wife’s heart was located in Sodom and towards the awful iniquity; this was despite the fact that she also desired to be with the people of God. Notwithstanding, Genesis 19:26 says of Lot, “his wife looked back from behind him, and she became a pillar of salt.” Her foolish refusal to once-and-for-all turn her back on Sodom caused her to be instantly and completely destroyed. Through her un-preparedness, she was immediately cast into a lost hell – damned and doomed for all eternity – without hope and without Christ.

John 10
14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

There are two folds of sheep. The first fold knows Him and He knows them. The Gentiles are the first fold.
There are other sheep not of the first fold that He must also bring. The second fold will be of the 12 tribes as they will have their eyes opened after the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. The two folds become one fold at the gathering from heaven and earth. The Church is gathered from heaven and the 12 tribes across the earth, the seed of the woman, are gathered from the earth. The two folds become one fold, the Israel of God, which is the great multitude.

There are other things also which prove two raptures.

There is no doubt that the Jews were the main focus of Christ’s earthly ministry. That situation continued on for a while throughout the book of Acts. But redemption didn’t stop there. His sheep were not limited to the house of Israel. His heart for Israel did not in any way diminish His intention to reach the Gentile nations with salvation. Jesus said prior to the cross, speaking to His Jewish converts, in John 10:14-16, “I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.”

The continuation of the believing Israeli flock, and its morphing into the New Testament congregation, confirmed the expansion of faithful Israel in the new covenant period. It also explains the Israeli identify of the new covenant people of God and demonstrates the sense of continuity that existed between both covenant eras. Gentiles were now to be corralled into faithful Israel in extraordinary numbers. They trusted in Israel’s Messiah, they joined the old covenant flock, and became the New Testament people of God. This was a radical overhaul for even the most open-minded of Christ’s disciples. We saw that in their parochial response to Christ’s kingdom teaching in Acts 1:6 and with their struggle in the book of Acts to come to terms with accommodating Gentiles joining the congregation (ekklesia) on an equal basis to that of Jews.

Jesus brought a radical revolutionary message to the early Jewish disciples. He told them that there are others that are not of this flock (namely not of the Jewish race) that belong to Him, who will be integrated into His sheepfold. He was talking here of the Gentiles. What is more, He describes how these two peoples (both Jews and Gentiles) would be united together in Him and become one flock! Jesus is here acknowledging that salvation would not be limited to the Jewish race. He was predicting that the Gospel would expand out and embrace the nations. He explains that there would then be a fusion of the believing element of both ethnic groups into one cohesive believing sheepfold – with Him as a Shepherd. This indeed happened 2000 years ago.

No sir. Daniel 12 is about the people of Daniel.

Daniel 12
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Daniel 12 also shows that many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall be raised.
Daniel 12
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

This resurrection occurs at the 6th seal. It is when Daniels people are delivered. The dead and alive are changed in the twinkling of an eye.
All go to heaven for the marriage supper and along with the Church are the great multitude. Then the 7th seal will be opened and the one year wrath of God will begin.

Daniel 12:1-3 reveals, “And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.”

The first thing we need to establish here is: this is describing a general resurrection. This resurrection involves two types of people – the righteous and the wicked; one group rises "to everlasting life" the other to "everlasting contempt." Pretrib or Premil does not believe that. They oppose that. They are therefore fighting with the text. The fact that we see a clear description of the general resurrection of the righteous and the wicked tells us that this is a tribulation that occurs prior to the second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ.

This is the time when the redeemed are glorified. This passage confirms: “they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.” This only happens when Jesus comes. Notably, this is the very time where is the wicked rise "to shame and everlasting contempt." It is clear from the texted both receive there eternal reward at the one time when Jesus comes.

Not surprisingly, Daniel 12 agrees with the consistent New Testament Scripture. The fuller revelation shows more detail. This is one of many passages that prove Amillennialist position. This text totally negates the Premillennial paradigm.