Only the Apostles were Predestined

[1stCenturyLady]

OK = GREAT

Now go back to John 6:43-44 and SEE something ULTRA IMPORTANT = let me know if you SEE it

Jesus therefore answered and said to them, “Do not murmur among yourselves.
No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

It was specifically talking about His Apostles. They are those the"Father gives to the Son." Those who walked away in the last passage I posted to you, "came to him" also. If it had been the Father that brought them to Jesus, they would have never walked away. Maybe this prayer Jesus prayed for the Apostles will show you who the Father gives to the Son.

John 17

Jesus Prays for Himself​

17 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You, 2 as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him. 3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. 4 I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do. 5 And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.

Jesus Prays for His Disciples​

6 “I have manifested Your name to the men whom You have given Me out of the world. They were Yours, You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word. 7 Now they have known that all things which You have given Me are from You. 8 For I have given to them the words which You have given Me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came forth from You; and they have believed that You sent Me.

9 “I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours. 10 And all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine, and I am glorified in them. 11 Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are. 12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled. 13 But now I come to You, and these things I speak in the world, that they may have My joy fulfilled in themselves. 14 I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. 15 I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one. 16 They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. 17 Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth. 18 As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. 19 And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth.

Jesus Prays for All Believers​

20 “I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; 21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. 22 And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one: 23 I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.

Jesus Continues Praying for His Disciples​

24 “Father, I desire that they also whom You gave Me may be with Me where I am, that they may behold My glory which You have given Me; for You loved Me before the foundation of the world. 25 O righteous Father! The world has not known You, but I have known You; and these have known that You sent Me. 26 And I have declared to them Your name, and will declare it, that the love with which You loved Me may be in them, and I in them.”

 

[David in NJ]

It was specifically talking about His Apostles. They are those the"Father gives to the Son."

Jesus therefore answered and said to them, “Do not murmur among yourselves.
No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

A.) Do not murmur against the words of Christ
B.) No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him
C.) I will raise him up at the last day.

@1stCenturyLady = How many people did JESUS say HE will raise at the last day?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Jesus therefore answered and said to them, “Do not murmur among yourselves.
No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

A.) Do not murmur against the words of Christ
B.) No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him
C.) I will raise him up at the last day.

@1stCenturyLady = How many people did JESUS say HE will raise at the last day?

They first belonged to the Father. You just asked me this and you didn't like the answer.

This is about the Apostles, not those who walked away after believing in Jesus. Those never belonged to the Father.

CONTEXT, CONTEXT, CONTEXT!!! John wrote chapters 6, 10 and 17 addressing the connection between the Apostles and the Father. Look for the key word, "give" between the Father and the Son.

I hope you learn HOW to study. Right now you are denominationalized and blind to what the Bible actually says.

 

[David in NJ]

They first belonged to the Father. You just asked me this and you didn't like the answer.

This is about the Apostles, not those who walked away after believing in Jesus. Those never belonged to the Father.

CONTEXT, CONTEXT, CONTEXT!!! John wrote chapters 6, 10 and 17 addressing the connection between the Apostles and the Father. Look for the key word, "give" between the Father and the Son.

I hope you learn HOW to study.

You cannot answer a simple question!!!
How then can you properly discern Truth when you deny the 'CONTEXT' of the exact words of JESUS.

How many of His disciples will Christ raise up at the last day?

@1stCenturyLady please answer according to Christ's exact words = John 6:43-44

Jesus therefore answered and said to them, “Do not murmur among yourselves.
No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

 

[Earburner]

@Earburner


Yep all the time



This is not accurate Jn 3:18 doesnt say anything about predestination, also the vessels of mercy Rom 9 were always predestined to glory Rom 9:23

23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

One step at a time. Let's look at the unsaved first, and why they are!
Prior to YOU coming to Jesus, you were unsaved!!
DIDN'T YOU KNOW that you were predestined to "condemnation [death] ALREADY" ??
Do you know why we must repent towards God first, before we are saved through the sacrificial shed blood of Jesus?
We ALL must agree with God that we ARE a sinner, and therefore deserving of death without any eternal existence of any kind.

 

[Earburner]

9 “I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours. 10 And all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine, and I am glorified in them. 11 Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are. 12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled. 13 But now I come to You, and these things I speak in the world, that they may have My joy fulfilled in themselves. 14 I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. 15 I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one. 16 They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. 17 Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth. 18 As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. 19 And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth.

Q. How did the disciples become chosen of God, that they should be given by God to Jesus, during His mortal ministry on earth?
A. They came to God FIRST through John the Baptist's call of repentance unto them, and for no other reason.

 

[David in NJ]

They first belonged to the Father. You just asked me this and you didn't like the answer.

This is about the Apostles, not those who walked away after believing in Jesus. Those never belonged to the Father.

CONTEXT, CONTEXT, CONTEXT!!! John wrote chapters 6, 10 and 17 addressing the connection between the Apostles and the Father. Look for the key word, "give" between the Father and the Son.

I hope you learn HOW to study. Right now you are denominationalized and blind to what the Bible actually says.

How many of His disciples did JESUS CHRIST Say HE will raise up at the last day? = John 6:43-44

 

[brightfame52]

One step at a time. Let's look at the unsaved first, and why they are!
Prior to YOU coming to Jesus, you were unsaved!!
DIDN'T YOU KNOW that you were predestined to "condemnation [death] ALREADY" ??
Do you know why we must repent towards God first, before we are saved through the sacrificial shed blood of Jesus?
We ALL must agree with God that we ARE a sinner, and therefore deserving of death without any eternal existence of any kind.

You spouting out error

 

[Earburner]

You spouting out error

In every generation, all descendants from the seed of Adam, as they were and are physically born of flesh, remain "condemned already", UNTIL they come to God in REPENTANCE for forgiveness and removal of sins by faith in the shed blood of Jesus Christ.
Gen. 2[17] But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die [therefore all who are born after Adam, are condemned to eternal death already].

Gen. 3
[22] And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
[23] Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
[24] So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

Read and study John 3:18.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Subject: Clarification

Hi Ronald, Just to clarify—since I’ve been open about my thoughts, there isn’t really a private interpretation to consider. It’s a bit amusing when you think about it!

Best regards, Matthew

Well it is you who speak of "you rperspective" and critical thinking. these are strong words when spokjen in context of biblical discussions.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The point of my story (post #143):
Please notice John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

There is NOTHING in verse 16 that reveals any kind of predestination of anyone at anytime.
In fact, the word whosoever reveals that ALL SHALL HAVE EQUAL opportunity to be saved without any persuasion for predestination of any kind by God..

Back to my orchard story #143:
Since 5 apple trees were predestinated to be saved, and 15 were predestinated to be destroyed, none had a say as to how they wanted to end up.

In other words, there was no one who was a "whosoever". All were "slotted" (predestinated) by God, as to how they would end up.

NO!! I do not see predestination your way.

Edit:
Now, in John 3:18 can you see HOW the unsaved were predestinated by God for destruction, ever since Adam and the Garden of Eden?
As a clue, two words give the answer away in John 3:18

Would you like many verses on Gods predestinating people?

All lost since Adam and Eve are lost because of Adam and Eves sin and thus procreating all humans with a sin nature.

God gave provision sinc e Adam to save the lost. so Sorry the fault does not lie with god. He did not sin against us, we sinned against HIm.

God is under no obligation to save anyone at all!!

 

[1stCenturyLady]

You cannot answer a simple question!!!
How then can you properly discern Truth when you deny the 'CONTEXT' of the exact words of JESUS.

How many of His disciples will Christ raise up at the last day?

@1stCenturyLady please answer according to Christ's exact words = John 6:43-44

Jesus therefore answered and said to them, “Do not murmur among yourselves.
No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

All of them except the son of perdition that the Scriptures may be fulfilled.

You haven't been listening.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Q. How did the disciples become chosen of God, that they should be given by God to Jesus, during His mortal ministry on earth?
A. They came to God FIRST through John the Baptist's call of repentance unto them, and for no other reason.

Ephesians 1:3-12 Paul's reasoning about the Apostles:

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved.

7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace 8 which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence, 9 having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, 10 that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth—in Him. 11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, 12 that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.

 

[David in NJ]

All of them except the son of perdition that the Scriptures may be fulfilled.

You haven't been listening.

How many is "all of them"?

FYI - i am listening to His Voice and His words = you are required to do the same = no one is exempt

 

[Earburner]

Would you like many verses on Gods predestinating people?

All lost since Adam and Eve are lost because of Adam and Eves sin and thus procreating all humans with a sin nature.

God gave provision sinc e Adam to save the lost. so Sorry the fault does not lie with god. He did not sin against us, we sinned against HIm.

God is under no obligation to save anyone at all!!

Again...the plan of God to SAVE people from eternal death is what was predestinated before the world was, NOT PEOPLE.

That plan was fulfilled by the Lord Jesus Christ, which was kept secret since the beginning of the world.

Rom. 16
[25] Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, [the hidden wisdom] which was kept secret since the world began,

1Cor. 2
[7] But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world [was] unto our glory:
[8] Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

 

[pandaflower]

Again...the plan of God to SAVE people from eternal death is what was predestinated before the world was, NOT PEOPLE.

That plan was fulfilled by the Lord Jesus Christ, which was kept secret since the beginning of the world.

Rom. 16
[25] Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, [the hidden wisdom] which was kept secret since the world began,

1Cor. 2
[7] But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world [was] unto our glory:
[8] Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

I don't think this statement makes sense.

Again...the plan of God to SAVE people from eternal death is what was predestinated before the world was, NOT PEOPLE.

 

[Earburner]

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved.

No one, and I mean NOT ONE mortal person can be in Christ before the foundation of the world WITHOUT personal repentance towards God.
Please stop insulting God's intelligence as well as ours.

 

[Earburner]

I don't think this statement makes sense.

Again...the plan of God to SAVE people from eternal death is what was predestinated before the world was, NOT PEOPLE.

My post #177 explains it better.

 

[brightfame52]

In every generation, all descendants from the seed of Adam, as they were and are physically born of flesh, remain "condemned already", UNTIL they come to God in REPENTANCE for forgiveness and removal of sins by faith in the shed blood of Jesus Christ.
Gen. 2[17] But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die [therefore all who are born after Adam, are condemned to eternal death already].

Gen. 3
[22] And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
[23] Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
[24] So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

Read and study John 3:18.

More error

 

[Earburner]

More error

At the moment, the Holy Spirit can't help you, until you let go of the man made religious doctrine that unrepentant individuals were predestinated to belong to God, long before the world was created.