In Daniel 8, 11, and 12, is A4E meant? Or is a future anti-christ meant?

[Earburner]

Earthburner, you are wrongly painting everything that Scofield taught with a broad brush as being satanic.

Did Scofield believe that Jesus died on the cross for atonement of our sins ? Do you not believe the same ? Does that mean you unknowingly agree with all of Scofield's doctrine ?

So don't accuse me of agreeing with everything Scofield taught. I have stated that I don't depend on Scofield for what I post, as I am not a student of Scofield. If you have issues with Scofield, don't try to drag me into it.

I am not talking about anyone's personal salvation and their walk with the Lord. I am talking about Christians who teach and preach erroneously about the 70th week in the 70 week prophecy.

Most born again Christians are unaware that Scofield's teaching has corrupted most all of church-ianity's teaching and preaching on end time events.

Because you are revealing through your own words that you believe that the 70 week prophecy is to be fulfilled in these last days, I perceive that you are either ignorantly unaware, or you are wilfully ignorant about your deception.
To the former, I would venture to discuss more about end time events, but to the latter, I shall agree with "Spiritual Israelite":
"We couldn't be further apart in our understanding of eschatology if we tried".

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I agree.

So, at least we agree on something (lol). We may agree on other doctrines besides those related to eschatology, but I'm not sure what you believe besides your end times beliefs.

 

[Douggg]

Because you are revealing through your own words that you believe that the 70 week prophecy is to be fulfilled in these last days, I perceive that you are either ignorantly unaware, or you are wilfully ignorant about your deception.

Ezekiel 39 is a deception, to you?

 

[Douggg]

Because you are revealing through your own words that you believe that the 70 week prophecy is to be fulfilled in these last days, I perceive that you are either ignorantly unaware, or you are wilfully ignorant about your deception.

The 15 time of the end timeframes are a deception to you ?

 

[Earburner]

Ezekiel 39 is a deception, to you?

View attachment 67779

Please notice what I said.
1. Are you ignorantly unaware of how Scofield's false teachings have permeated and corrupted most of church-ianity?
Or
2. Are you wilfully ignorant of how Scofield's false teachings have permeated and corrupted most of church-ianity?

If you agree to category #1, then we can discuss the many points about the 70th week in the 70 week prophecy.
However, if you agree to category #2, then there isn't anything that we can discuss about the 70th week in the 70 week prophecy.

Now, if you do see yourself in category #1, then there is hope that you will understand my point of view, which is at the moment diametrically opposed to your present understanding, of which I also once was misled and deceived.

 

[Douggg]

Please notice what I said.
1. Are you ignorantly unaware of how Scofield's false teachings have permeated and corrupted most of church-ianity?
Or
2. Are you wilfully ignorant of how Scofield's false teachings have permeated and corrupted most of church-ianity?

If you agree to category #1, then we can discuss the many points about the 70th week in the 70 week prophecy.
However, if you agree to category #2, then there isn't anything that we can discuss about the 70th week in the 70 week prophecy.

Now, if you do see yourself in category #1, then there is hope that you will understand my point of view, which is at the moment diametrically opposed to your present understanding.

Ezekiel 39 is a prophecy given to Ezekiel by God, Ezekiel 39:1.

There are 7 years in Ezekiel 39:9 that will follow the destruction of Gog's army. At the end of those 7 years in Ezekiel 39:17-20 is the battle of Armageddon. In Ezekiel 39:21-29 is Jesus Himself speaking in the text.
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What is your point of view of Ezekiel 39 ?

 

[Earburner]

Ezekiel 39 is a prophecy given to Ezekiel by God, Ezekiel 39:1.

There are 7 years in Ezekiel 39:9 that will follow the destruction of Gog's army. At the end of those 7 years in Ezekiel 39:17-20 is the battle of Armageddon. In Ezekiel 39:21-29 is Jesus Himself speaking in the text.
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What is your point of view of Ezekiel 39 ?

First and foremost, one must understand which view of the 1000 years is being asserted, so that the prophecy about Gog and Magog can be applied correctly, effectually and truthfully according to scripture.
> My view is according to #1, the Amil. view.
What is your choice?
1. Amillennial view?
2. Premillennial view?
3. Postmillennial view?

 

[Douggg]

First and foremost, one must understand which view of the 1000 years is being asserted, so that the prophecy about Gog and Magog can be applied correctly, effectually and truthfully according to scripture.
> My view is according to #1, the Amil. view.
What is your choice?
1. Amillennial view?
2. Premillennial view?
3. Postmillennial view?

Okay, you are Amil.

So explain your view of Ezekiel 39.

 

[Earburner]

Okay, you are Amil.

So explain your view of Ezekiel 39.

I already did in post #115
Again...the 70th week was fulfilled BY JESUS. All we are waiting on now is His sudden and Glorious return of "consummation" "in flaming fire" KJV Dan. 9:27.
2 Thes. 1:7-10 and 2 Peter 3:10-13 is the Gog/Magog event, being simultaneous....
"When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day."

Heb. 12
[29] For our God is a consuming fire.

 

[Douggg]

I already did in post #115
Again...the 70th week was fulfilled BY JESUS. All we are waiting on now is His sudden and Glorious return of "consummation" "in flaming fire" KJV Dan. 9:27.
2 Thes. 1:7-10 and 2 Peter 3:10-13 is the Gog/Magog event, being simultaneous....
"When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day."

Heb. 12
[29] For our God is a consuming fire.

No, you did not explain Ezekiel 39 in your post #115. Go through Ezekiel 39 explaining it it directly.

What happens in Ezekiel 39:1-6 ? Is most of Gog's army destroyed ?
What happens in Ezekiel 39:9 ? How long ?
What happens in Ezekiel 39:17-20 ? Does it compare to Revelation 19:17-18 ?
What happens in Ezekiel 39:21-29 ?

 

[Earburner]

No, you did not explain Ezekiel 39 in your post #115. Go through Ezekiel 39 explaining it it directly.

What happens in Ezekiel 39:1-6 ? Is most of Gog's army destroyed ?
What happens in Ezekiel 39:9 ? How long ?
What happens in Ezekiel 39:17-20 ? Does it compare to Revelation 19:17-18 ?
What happens in Ezekiel 39:21-29 ?

Except for that which is known of about Gog
and Magog by memory and word of mouth, down through the ages, there is no literal history of Gog and Magog. Today, we only have scant rumors of it's past. Therefore, God's use of the leader named Gog, and it's Empire named as Magog, is His use of symbolism for all the unsaved who will be present in the Day of His coming in flaming fire, aka Armageddon.
Rev. 20:8-10

 

[Douggg]

Except for that which is known of about Gog
and Magog by memory and word of mouth, down through the ages, there is no literal history of Gog and Magog. Today, we only have scant rumors of it's past. Therefore, God's use of the leader named Gog, and it's Empire named as Magog, is His use of symbolism for all the unsaved who will be present in the Day of His coming in flaming fire, aka Armageddon.
Rev. 20:8-10

You did not explain Ezekiel 39.

Go through Ezekiel 39 explaining it it directly.

What happens in Ezekiel 39:1-6 ? Is most of Gog's army destroyed ?
What happens in Ezekiel 39:9 ? How long ?
What happens in Ezekiel 39:17-20 ? Does it compare to Revelation 19:17-18 ?
What happens in Ezekiel 39:21-29 ?

 

[Earburner]

You did not explain Ezekiel 39.

Go through Ezekiel 39 explaining it it directly.

What happens in Ezekiel 39:1-6 ? Is most of Gog's army destroyed ?
What happens in Ezekiel 39:9 ? How long ?
What happens in Ezekiel 39:17-20 ? Does it compare to Revelation 19:17-18 ?
What happens in Ezekiel 39:21-29 ?

I don't have to. It's all legitimately said by God of what happened to Gog and Magog, whether there is/was an actual history about the leader and the country or not.
We all should recognize that Satan is the leader [Gog] of the unsaved [Magog], those who are of mortal flesh only, having not the Spirit of Christ. Rom. 8:9.

The fact is in Rev. God is mentioning/referencing Gog and Magog's demise to be symbolically equivalent to that of all the unsaved in the Day of Christ's return IN FLAMING FIRE. 2 Thes. 1:7-10.

Rev. 20[7] And when the [symbolic] thousand years are expired [according to Amil view], Satan shall be loosed out of his prison [chains of darkness],
[8] And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle [Armageddon]: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
[9] And they went up on the breadth of the [whole] earth, and compassed the CAMP of the saints about**, and the beloved city [not of buildings, but rather of people]: and fire came DOWN from God OUT OF heaven, and devoured [consumed] them. 2 Thes. 1:7-10.

**Note: Do you understand how it is at this moment, ever since Pentecost, that we are a camp unto the Lord in our mortal bodies?
The "Feast of Tabrnacles" was not about Israel dwelling in temporary shelters, but rather God Himself dwelling within our temporary mortal bodies. Thanks to Jesus and His Holy sacrifice of Himself, God the Father can now do that!!

 

[Douggg]

The fact is in Rev. God is mentioning/referencing Gog and Magog's demise to be symbolically equivalent to that of all the unsaved in the Day of Christ's return IN FLAMING FIRE. 2 Thes. 1:7-10.

You are trying to explain away Ezekiel 39 as being the referral to the Gog and Magog nations of Revelation 20.8-9. It does not work.

In Ezekiel 39:2, God does not destroy all of Gog's army. A sixth part of Gog's army will not be destroyed. Not so in Revelation 20.

Ezekiel 39:2 And I will turn thee back, and leave but the sixth part of thee, and will cause thee to come up from the north parts, and will bring thee upon the mountains of Israel:

In Ezekiel 39:12, for 7 months Israel buries the dead of Gog's army. Not so in Revelation 20.

In Ezekiel 39:9, there are 7 years that follow the destruction of Gog's army. Not so in Revelation 20.

In Ezekiel 39:17-18 is another feast on dead bodies. Not so in Revelation 20.

You are not explaining Ezekiel 39 directly - because it disproves your position that the 70th week has been fulfilled. And disproves your understanding of Gog and Magog in Revelation 20:8-9.

 

[covenantee]

You are not explaining Ezekiel 39 directly - because it disproves your position that the 70th week has been fulfilled.

You've already forgotten Daniel's all-important word.

Determined.

Ezekiel does not disprove Determined.

No one disproves Determined.

 

[Douggg]

You've already forgotten Daniel's all-important word.

Determined.

Ezekiel does not disprove Determined.

No one disproves Determined.

The people in focus in Ezekiel 39 who will be defended by God is the house of Israel, Daniel's people.

Daniel 9:24, the 70 weeks are determined on Daniel's people and the holy city of Jerusalem.

 

[covenantee]

The people in focus in Ezekiel 39 who will be defended by God is the house of Israel, Daniel's people.

Daniel 9:24, the 70 weeks are determined on Daniel's people and the holy city of Jerusalem.

Yes, the 70 weeks are determined.

All 70, including the 70th.

 

[Douggg]

Yes, the 70 weeks are determined.

All 70, including the 70th.

The 70th week is still unfulfilled. It will involve Jerusalem and the Jews.

 

[Earburner]

The 70th week is still unfulfilled. It will involve Jerusalem and the Jews.

Before you go any further, please explain briefly how and when the "determined six works of God" in Dan. 9:24 were fulfilled or not fulfilled.

Dan. 9:27 provides an additional clue of that which should be "poured out" upon the desolate (those who are void of God).
Acts 2:17, 10:45 are good references for the answer.

 

[Douggg]

Before you go any further, please explain briefly how and when the "determined six works of God" in Dan. 9:24 were fulfilled or not fulfilled.

1. to finish the transgression... the end of the 70 years of Babylonian captivity. (fulfilled)
2. to make an end of sins... Jesus's death on the cross, to make an end of sins power to separate man from God. (fulfilled)
3. to make reconciliation for iniquity....Jesus's death on the cross for atonement of sin. (fulfilled)
4. to bring in everlasting righteousness..... the kingdom of God becoming the ruling kingdom over the nations (future)
5. to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.... to complete all the time of the end prophecies (future)

Dan. 9:27 provides an additional clue of that which should be "poured out" upon the desolate (those who are void of God).
Acts 2:17, 10:45 are good references for the answer.

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

It is talking about the great tribulation time of troubles poured out on the world.