In Daniel 8, 11, and 12, is A4E meant? Or is a future anti-christ meant?

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covenantee

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False. Jerusalem was left desolate when they rejected Christ, not in 70AD.
Wrong. Matthew 23:38 is a reference to the physical city of Jerusalem.

Matthew 23:38

3624 [e]
oikos
οἶκος
house
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"the place where one has fixed his residence, one's settled abode, domicile: οἶκος ὑμῶν, of the city of Jerusalem, Matthew 23:38; Luke 13:35."

The physical city was desolated in 70 AD, confirmed and corroborated by:

Daniel 9
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Matthew 24
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

Luke 21
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
 
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TribulationSigns

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Wrong. Matthew 23:38 is a reference to the physical city of Jerusalem.

Matthew 23:38

3624 [e]
oikos
οἶκος
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"the place where one has fixed his residence, one's settled abode, domicile: οἶκος ὑμῶν, of the city of Jerusalem, Matthew 23:38; Luke 13:35."

The physical city was desolated in 70 AD, confirmed and corroborated by.

You don't get it.

Daniel 9:26
"And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined."


Verse 26 is NOT about Rome. This is about Michael (Christ) and His messengers warring against the forces of darkness — and tragically, His own people destroyed the city and the sanctuary when they rejected and killed their own Messiah. The destruction didn’t come from outside enemies first — it came from within. It came from those who claimed to be God’s people but were, in truth, part of a corrupt and apostate family.

Christ pinpoints this exact guilt and lays it squarely on the ones responsible! And if you think He was talking about literal bricks and Roman legions, then please — actually read what He says here:

Matthew 23:33-38
"Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem,
thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
Behold, your house is left unto you desolate."


Let’s make this painfully obvious:

Was Christ rebuking limestone walls and city gates? Did He call stone structures "serpents" and "vipers"? Of course not. He was talking to the people — to the apostate religious leaders and their followers who had filled up the measure of their fathers' guilt. Get it?!

Jerusalem, in context, is a representation of the people — the Old Testament congregation who rejected the Son and persecuted the prophets. Christ is addressing a family line of rebellion, stretching all the way back to Cain murdering Abel — not the physical soil of the land or the city’s architecture. Because of their rejection, the kingdom representation was taken from the Old Testament congregation and given to the New Testament congregation to produce more fruits, the one which Christ has confirmed a covenant with!

So, like you, when people try to shift the blame to the Romans in 70 AD and say “See? They destroyed it!”, they completely miss the point. The real destroyers were the professed believers from within the Old Testament Congregation — the ones Christ came to first, who should have known better, and who will be held accountable.

So yes, like the blind Pharisees and scribes, many today still cling to a carnal reading — obsessed with physical stones, physical kingdoms, and physical armies — while ignoring the very heart of Christ’s warning. He wasn’t pointing to buildings. He was pointing to them — and by extension, to all who claim to be His people but reject His truth.

Selah!

Daniel 9
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Desolations upon the Old Testament congregation - the people who went against Christ and put him to Death.

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

See? The covenant being confirmed? That has everything to do with the New Testament Church, the true congregation — not with the Old Testament Church where you claim the desolation of verse 27 was upon some. So naturally, the desolation that follows is also directed at the Church, not Jerusalem in 70 AD and certainly not the Roman soldiers. The one that Christ confirmed a covenant with!

Let’s be honest — Christ also didn’t confirm a covenant with the Romans. He confirmed it with His people, His body, the Church the one that Christ rebuilt in 3 days after the Old Testament congregation fell! So in the time of the end, after the building of the church is finished, the visible Church turns away from truth, rejects the Gospel, and silences the voice of the Two Witnesses — the Elect — that’s when desolation comes, just like the Jews did with Christ at the Cross! DejaVu! The armies that compass the New Testament church were not the Romans or anything but the false prophets and christs - the body of the beast of Revelation 13.

But hey, if you still want to pin all this on Titus and some bricks in Jerusalem, maybe you missed who the real covenant was even made with in the first place!
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Matthew 24
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

Note: You might want to slow down and actually apply the wisdom of Christ here — you know, that part where He says, "whoso readeth, let him understand"? Yeah, that. Do you even grasp what the abomination of desolation really is? Spoiler alert: it’s not about some Roman soldiers stomping around the old temple ruins.

It’s about what stands in the New Testament Congregation — the Church — not some bricks and mortar in Israel. The true desolation happens when false gospels and false christs take over the visible church. But hey, keep chasing Roman centurions if you insist.

Luke 21
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

You still think God is talking about physical Jerusalem in Luke 21:20? Really? I hate to break it to you, but you might want to take another look. Luke 21 isn’t fixated on a patch of land — it’s pointing to the New Testament Congregation of Israel, the Church, which Jerusalem represents.

And those “armies”? Oh sure, everyone loves to say they’re the Romans — because, you know, prophecy always has to be about the first century, right? No. The real “armies” are the false prophets and false christs that invade and corrupt the unfaithful New Testament Church. That’s the true desolation.

God’s Elect are told to come out — not out of a city with stone walls, but out of a spiritually fallen congregation. You’re looking at the wrong Jerusalem. Might want to update the map.
 

covenantee

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Verse 26 is NOT about Rome.
It's about Messiah, who used the literal Romans (and Jews) as His literal people to literally deliver judgment and desolation upon literal Jerusalem and apostate Israel.

It's not about your hyperspiritualization of that literal event. :laughing:

Don't forget those literal Judaean Christians. :laughing:

They were far smarter than you. :laughing:
 
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Earburner

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Part 3: Problems with the Antiochus Interpretation

Problems with Identifying the Vile Person as Antiochus IV Epiphanes


Many traditional interpreters identify the vile person in Daniel 11:21 as Antiochus IV Epiphanes. However, this view presents major problems:

1. No Clear End for the VP:
Antiochus is never clearly said to "come to his end." Unlike the tax-raiser in v.20, the vile person receives no death or downfall—unless v.45 is referring to him.

2. Verse 45 Describes a Cataclysmic End:
Daniel 11:45:
"And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him."
This sounds far more apocalyptic than Antiochus' mundane death from disease.

3. Daniel 8 Places the Vision in the Time of the End:
Daniel 8:17 – "for at the time of the end shall be the vision"
Daniel 8:26 – "shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many days"

These verses explicitly say that the events of Daniel 8 pertain to the end times, not ancient history.

4. The King in Daniel 8:23–25 Opposes Christ:
"He shall stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand."
Antiochus IV died over 160 years before Christ was born. He cannot possibly have stood against Christ in any literal way.

5. Thematic Continuity with Daniel 12:
Daniel 12 continues the narrative, again tied to "the time of the end" (12:4, 12:9). The "king" must therefore be the same eschatological figure.
(Getting back to the topic of this thread.)

For all that you have studied of Daniel and 1&2 Maccabees, it truly is sad that you missed the boat, by NOT agreeing that Antiochus lV Epiphanes (A4E) is/was the ONLY "little horn" that shall ever be.

Apparently you also have bought into the Scofield fiasco of booting Jesus out of the 70th week, and then transplanting that week far out into the future of 2000+ years, thus giving it to a fictitious, "no show" person that church-ianity loves to call "THE" Antichrist.
Note: It is "that spirit of antichrist" that is SINGULAR, thus making MANY antichrists in the PLURAL. In all of the KJV and the Catholic Vulgate Bibles, one will never find the words "THE Antichrist".
 

covenantee

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If all would examine KJV Dan. 9:27, they will see the time zone that Jesus is extending through, and then finally to.
[27] And he [Jesus] shall confirm the [New] covenant with many for one week [3.5+3.5= 7yrs.]: and in the midst of the week [first 3.5 yrs.] he [Jesus] shall cause [by his own sacrifice] the [temple] sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations [continuation of Jewish animal sacrifices] he [Jesus] shall make it desolate, even until [upto] the consummation,
and/[but] that [which was] determined [in verse 24] shall be poured upon the desolate [those who are void of the Holy Spirit of God (Acts 2:17, 10:45), EVEN UNTIL [upto] the consummation].
The consummation, destruction, is the complete end of all things.
> See also Heb.
[29] For our God is a consuming fire. 2 Thes. 1:7-10; 2 Peter 3.

Consummation:
Strong's Number - H3617
Hebrew: כּלה
Transliteration: kâlâh
Pronunciation: kaw-law'
Definition: From H3615; a completion; adverbially completely; also destruction: - {altogether} ({be} utterly) consume ({-d}) consummation ({-ption}) was {determined} ({full} utter) {end} riddance.
KJV Usage: ...end (11x), altogether (3x), consume (3x), consumption (2x), consummation (1x), determined (1x), riddance (1x).
Occurs: 22
In verses: 20
In the three passages below, there is a total of five references to "desolate" and its derivations. All of them refer unmistakably to the desolation of Jerusalem. There is a total of one reference to "consummation" (the single occurrence within the entirety of Scripture), and it is associated with desolation ("he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation"), i.e. the desolation of Jerusalem.

Thus the question, "How was Jerusalem desolated in 70 AD?"
is answered thus, "By its consummation in 70 AD".

Fulfillment of consummation and desolation was complete at that time, and does not await a future fulfillment.

Daniel 9
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Matthew 24
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

Luke 21
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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1. The six things listed in verse 24 are not finished yet.
You indicated before that you believe three of those things were fulfilled in the past, right (making an end of sins, finishing the transgression and making reconciliation for iniquity)? During which of the 70 weeks do you think those things were fulfilled?
 

Spiritual Israelite

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Wrong. Matthew 23:38 is a reference to the physical city of Jerusalem.

Matthew 23:38

3624 [e]
oikos
οἶκος
house
N-NMS

"the place where one has fixed his residence, one's settled abode, domicile: οἶκος ὑμῶν, of the city of Jerusalem, Matthew 23:38; Luke 13:35."

The physical city was desolated in 70 AD, confirmed and corroborated by:

Daniel 9
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Matthew 24
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

Luke 21
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
Right. He also denies that verse 7 in the following is about the physical destruction of the city of Jerusalem, even though those with discernment know that it is:

Matthew 22:1 And Jesus answered and spoke to them again by parables and said: 2 “The kingdom of heaven is like a certain king who arranged a marriage for his son, 3 and sent out his servants to call those who were invited to the wedding; and they were not willing to come. 4 Again, he sent out other servants, saying, ‘Tell those who are invited, “See, I have prepared my dinner; my oxen and fatted cattle are killed, and all things are ready. Come to the wedding.” ’ 5 But they made light of it and went their ways, one to his own farm, another to his business. 6 And the rest seized his servants, treated them spitefully, and killed them. 7 But when the king heard about it, he was furious. And he sent out his armies, destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.

The following passage also clearly refers to that event.

Luke 19:41 Now as He drew near, He saw the city and wept over it, 42 saying, “If you had known, even you, especially in this your day, the things that make for your peace! But now they are hidden from your eyes. 43 For days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment around you, surround you and close you in on every side, 44 and level you, and your children within you, to the ground; and they will not leave in you one stone upon another, because you did not know the time of your visitation.”

Exactly what happened in 70 AD and we should celebrate the foresight that Jesus had and the complete accuracy of His prophecy instead of denying that it happened just as He said, as some do.
 

Douggg

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You indicated before that you believe three of those things were fulfilled in the past, right (making an end of sins, finishing the transgression and making reconciliation for iniquity)? During which of the 70 weeks do you think those things were fulfilled?

Not during the 7 year 70th week. But at the end of the 69th week of 7 years.
Image1.jpg
 

Earburner

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In the three passages below, there is a total of five references to "desolate" and its derivations. All of them refer unmistakably to the desolation of Jerusalem. There is a total of one reference to "consummation" (the single occurrence within the entirety of Scripture), and it is associated with desolation ("he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation"), i.e. the desolation of Jerusalem.

Thus the question, "How was Jerusalem desolated in 70 AD?"
is answered thus, "By its consummation in 70 AD".

Fulfillment of consummation and desolation was complete at that time, and does not await a future fulfillment.

Daniel 9
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Matthew 24
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

Luke 21
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
I suggest that we should not get hung up on the past desolation of Jerusalem. Let us not forget that by God's Grace towards the world, through faith in Christ's death and resurrection, God did put the nation of Israel in His "rear view mirror" and moved on into "Pentecost" (Dan. 9:27; Acts 2:17, 10:45).

Therefore, we are still in the symbolic 1000 years of His age of Grace, but He will abruptly bring it to an end upon Jesus' Glorious and sudden return "in flaming fire", aka the event of "The consummation", as revealed in the details of "Armageddon" and that of "Gog and Magog". 2 Thes. 1:7-10; Dan. 9:27; Rev. 16:14-16, 20:7-10 and 2 Peter ch. 3.

All might want to review Luke 17:28-30 again.
[28] Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
[29] But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
[30] Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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Not during the 7 year 70th week. But at the end of the 69th week of 7 years.
Nope. This shows how dishonest you are with scripture, Douggg. You should be ashamed of yourself. It very clearly says in Daniel 9:26 that the Messiah would be cut off AFTER the end of the 69th week, not at the end of it. Haven't you said all along that you believe He was cut off 4 days after the end of the 69th week? That's still after the 69th week ended and not at the end of the 69th week. I just can't believe how you dishonestly twist scriptures sometimes like you do when you create a new definition for the word generation that doesn't exist and try to apply it to Matthew 24:34. You have no conscience about it. It's terrible. You need to repent of that.
 
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covenantee

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I suggest that we should not get hung up on the past desolation of Jerusalem. Let us not forget that by God's Grace towards the world, through faith in Christ's death and resurrection, God did put the nation of Israel in His "rear view mirror" and moved on into "Pentecost" (Dan. 9:27; Acts 2:17, 10:45).

Therefore, we are still in the symbolic 1000 years of His age of Grace, but He will abruptly bring it to an end upon Jesus' Glorious and sudden return "in flaming fire", aka the event of "the consummation", as revealed in the details of "Armageddon" and that of "Gog and Magog". 2 Thes. 1:7-10; Dan. 9:27; Rev. 16:14-16, 20:7-10 and 2 Peter ch. 3.
I concur that there will be a final fiery consummation. However, the consummation of Daniel 9:27 is the consummation of Jerusalem in 70 AD. It is not the final fiery consummation.
 

Douggg

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Nope. This shows how dishonest you are with scripture, Douggg. You should be ashamed of yourself. It very clearly says in Daniel 9:26 that the Messiah would be cut off AFTER the end of the 69th week, not at the end of it.
No, it actually does not say after the end of the 69th week See ? There is no after "the end of" in the text.

It certainly does not say after threescore and two and 1/2 weeks, of your view. Which you have inserted the length of the messiah's ministry into the text - which the messiah's ministry is not mentioned in the text at all in Daniel 9:25-27.

Daniel 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Also, stop with the personal attacks. Stick to the subject matter itself.
 

covenantee

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No, it actually does not say after the end of the 69th week See ? There is no after "the end of" in the text.
Daniel 9:26

310 [e]
wə·’a·ḥă·rê
וְאַחֲרֵ֤י
And after
Conj‑w | Prep

"Topical Lexicon
Semantic Range and Overview
אַחַר (’achar) functions adverbially, prepositionally, and conjunctively to express the idea of “after,” “behind,” and “following.”"

One cannot follow behind something until its end has passed by. So "after" means "following behind the end".

And Daniel 9:26 reads:

And following behind the end of threescore and two weeks...
i.e.
And after threescore and two weeks...
 
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IndianaRob

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Zechariah 14:
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

Rob, the mount of Olives has not been split in half yet. So Zechariah 14 is still future.
Some people say Zechariah 14 is still future, especially pointing to verse 4, where the Mount of Olives is said to split in two. They argue, “That hasn’t happened yet, so this prophecy must still be waiting to be fulfilled.”

It’s important to understand that the Mount of Olives splits before the living waters flow out of Jerusalem:

“And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.” (Zechariah 14:8)
We don’t have to guess when living waters began to flow out of Jerusalem — the New Testament tells us plainly.
  • Jesus said in John 7:38: “He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.”
  • In John 4, He told the Samaritan woman that He gives living water that becomes a well springing up into eternal life.
I personally don’t understand what the Mount of Olives represents but I do know the living waters are words of Jesus - the Word of God, specifically the New Testament.
 
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Earburner

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I concur that there will be a final fiery consummation. However, the consummation of Daniel 9:27 is the consummation of Jerusalem in 70 AD. It is not the final fiery consummation.
I agree that God had brought a full end to the temple and the nation of Israel in 70 AD. The "Israel" that we see today, is not of God, nor is it endorsed by God, but rather it is a fabricated conglomoration of people, who deny the Lord Jesus Christ.

As for "the consummation" in KJV Daniel 9:27, we can only understand when that will be, by interpreting it along with the context of the verse.
[27] And he [Jesus] shall confirm the [New] covenant with many for one week [7 years]: and in the midst of the week [3.5 years] he [Jesus] shall cause [by his own sacrifice of himself] the [temple] sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he [Jesus] shall make it desolate [void of God/destroyed], even  UNTIL [upto] the consummation [the end of all time],
and that [which was] determined [in verse 24] shall be POURED upon the desolate
[the repentant, beginning on PENTECOST, who are VOID of God's presence within them.]


Hopefully, by His Holy Spirit, you can see that Pentecost and the "POURING" out of God's Holy Spirit was to happen BEFORE the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem, and that BOTH were/are to remain so "EVEN UNTIL [upto] the consummation".
 
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covenantee

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I agree that God had brought a full end to the nation of Israel in 70 AD. The "Israel" that we see today, is not of God, nor is it endorsed by God, but rather it is a fabricated conglomoration of people, who deny the Lord Jesus Christ.

As for "the consummation" in KJV Daniel 9:27, we can only understand when that will be, by interpreting it along with the context of the verse.
[27] And he [Jesus] shall confirm the [New] covenant with many for one week [7 years]: and in the midst of the week [3.5 years] he [Jesus] shall cause [by his own sacrifice of himself] the [temple] sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he [Jesus] shall make it desolate [void of God/destroyed], even  UNTIL [upto] the consummation [the end of all time],
and that [which was] determined [in verse 24] shall be POURED upon the desolate
[the repentant, beginning on PENTECOST, who are VOID of God's presence within them.]
To reiterate, all of the desolation in the verses that I cited refers to Jerusalem in 70 AD.

The desolation of 70 AD was a result of the consummation of 70 AD.

All fulfilled.
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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Daniel 9:26

310 [e]
wə·’a·ḥă·rê
וְאַחֲרֵ֤י
And after
Conj‑w | Prep

"Topical Lexicon
Semantic Range and Overview
אַחַר (’achar) functions adverbially, prepositionally, and conjunctively to express the idea of “after,” “behind,” and “following.”"

One cannot follow behind something until its end has passed by. So "after" means "following behind the end".

And Daniel 9:26 reads:

And following behind the end of threescore and two weeks...
i.e.
And after threescore and two weeks...
It's unbelievable that we have to explain such a simple concept that we understood as kids to Douggg. But, I think he already knows this and is purposely being dishonest with the text in order to get it to fit his doctrine since that's all that really matters to him. Dealing with scripture honestly is not something he's interested in, apparently.
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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Some people say Zechariah 14 is still future, especially pointing to verse 4, where the Mount of Olives is said to split in two. They argue, “That hasn’t happened yet, so this prophecy must still be waiting to be fulfilled.”

It’s important to understand that the Mount of Olives splits before the living waters flow out of Jerusalem:


We don’t have to guess when living waters began to flow out of Jerusalem — the New Testament tells us plainly.
  • Jesus said in John 7:38: “He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.”
  • In John 4, He told the Samaritan woman that He gives living water that becomes a well springing up into eternal life.
I personally don’t understand what the Mount of Olives represents but I do know the living waters are words of Jesus - the Word of God, specifically the New Testament.
If you read the next verse after John 7:38, you can see that the living waters represent the Holy Spirit.

John 7:39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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Not during the 7 year 70th week. But at the end of the 69th week of 7 years.
You are trying to say that the 3 things you believe were fulfilled in Daniel 9:24 (making an end of sins, finishing the transgression, making reconciliation for iniquity) were fulfilled during the 69th week just before it ended? If so, that's impossible. Those things were fulfilled by the death of Christ which happened AFTER the first 69 weeks were over. Trying to place that within the 69th week is extremely dishonest. It says Jesus would be cut of AFTER the 69th week, not at the end of the 69th week. Stop twisting scripture like this.
 
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Douggg

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You are trying to say that the 3 things you believe were fulfilled in Daniel 9:24 (making an end of sins, finishing the transgression, making reconciliation for iniquity) were fulfilled during the 69th week just before it ended? If so, that's impossible. Those things were fulfilled by the death of Christ which happened AFTER the first 69 weeks were over. Trying to place that within the 69th week is extremely dishonest. It says Jesus would be cut of AFTER the 69th week, not at the end of the 69th week. Stop twisting scripture like this.
The term 69th week does not appear in the text of Daniel 9:25-26.

25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

So, each week being 7 years....
in verse 25 unto messiah, 7 x 7 x 360 = 2520 days, plus
62 x 7 x 360 = 156,240 days.....total 158, 760 days unto Messiah arrival in Jerusalem.

In John 12:12-15, Jesus arrived in Jerusalem as the messiah. 4 days later, he was crucified, cutoff. And you are arguing about 4 days out of 158,760 days ?

The 7 years of Daniel 9:27 are in Ezekiel 39:9 and also have the first and second half components in Revelation as 1260 days and 42 months. 7 years is 2520 days long, half of which is 1260 days. All of that detailed information, you are saying is "symbolic" ?