Dealing with : The Body of Sin

[Behold]

"Your carnal deeds are not sin." "God does not charge (sin) against you since the day you were born again."

Correct.

Carnal deeds that the Christian commits, are being committed when they are "not under the Law", but under Grace".
So, this means that the Law has no dominion whereby it can charge the sinner with "sin".
This is why Paul told us in these KJV verses, that God does not charge sin to the born again.
He can't... as He has already charged our Sin to Jesus.

Romans 4:8

2 Corin 5:19

John 3:17

Behold, don't you know that the greatest subject you can teach on Christian forums to church goers is HOW to become born again of the Spirit

There is no need to teach a Christian how to be born again, as they are already born again.

You would lead an unbeliever, who is not a "church goer"........to Salvation, Through Christ.

2 Cor. 5:18-19 1not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

Yes,

The ministry of reconciliation is one of the classes I teach, = Chrisitans,.......among other NT revelations.
I teach people who are new and longtime Christians, that God does not charge sin to them, ever again.
And until they learn this, and believe it..... they will be led of cults and similar commentaries and demonic online sites, and by heretics on christian forums , to believe they can lose they can lose their salvation. And once they are led to believe this lie, their faith is ruin.
They become "fallen from Grace".

The born again are free from Sin unto death - sins of lawlessness. 1 John 3 is about the first type of sin,

Sin itself separates us from God, until it is forgiven.

Jesus died on The Cross to offer this forgivness, so that a sinner may be eternally reconciled to God.

Our schoolmaster says in Leviticus 5:15 “If a person commits a trespass, and sins unintentionally..."

A Christian Liar is soneone who says......>"well, i never intentially sin.......all my sins are accidents and mistakes".

"I never willfully sin.".

I meet a lot of this type of carnal person on "christian forums" for many years.

God has been dealing with them for a lot longer.

Note the gospel is in pairs.

The Gospel is what Paul refers to as "MY Gospel".. 3x in the NT.

1.) "For the preaching of The Cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God".

2.) Its this....>"we preach Christ Crucified".........""

Just harsh consequences on this earth. It doesn't appear to me that these were ever born again of the Spirit. Carnality is not freedom from sin. Not all the Corinthians were saved.

The reason that Christians confess sin, is not just because they dont understand God's "gift of Salvation"", but its also because they have done something carnal and want to stop feeling condemend inside.

So, they confess, and start to feel better.
They want that relief.........until they do it again.

What some of them needed was true repentance. Paul's harsh letter to them woke them up, one from even turning him over to Satan for the death of their carnal nature. Though Paul was harsh, it seemed to work, as seen in his next letter to them.

Hebrews 12:6

2 Corinthians 2:6 This punishment which was inflicted by the majority is sufficient for such a man, 7 so that, on the contrary, you ought rather to forgive and comfort him, lest perhaps such a one be swallowed up with too much sorrow. 8 Therefore I urge you to reaffirm your love to him.

Notice that Paul never told the young male fornicator to confess the sin.
This is because God does not Charge sin to a Christian...........but He will discipline you for carnality "issues" and others.
He does this to everyone, who is born again.....each of us.

Hebrews 12:6

Yes, I agree, but about those who hang on to the old man, while giving God lip service.
Ephesians 4: 22 that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts, 23 and be renewed in the spirit of your mind, 24 and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness.

Anyone who is having "sin" issues....and confessing it, is totally connected to the "old man of Sin".
Many fo them think that Romans 7 is "Christianity".........."sin, confess, repeat".

And the pleasures of the world do not hold any value to you.

If the pleasures of the world didnt hold any value for most Christians then they would not want a nice house, or a nice car, or a '2026 Apple I-Phone and Macbook, or 100 other things they want and will work to purchase., including a faster internet service, and a really nice remodled Kitchen and a fantastic Hi-Def 4K 60inch Widescreen TV.

This, again has to do with abiding in the divine nature of God.

The only way to abide in God is for God to put you in there by "new birth".

 

[Behold]

Behold, can you please tell me your testimony, if not on here, maybe in a personal conversation?

Born again "in Christ" when i was 17, and was called into the ministry, later when i was 26.

“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch IN Me that does not bear fruit He takes away;

Jesus is making the distincition between being in Him, ..vs not actually being in him while trying to be like Him.
See, the Born again bear fruit, whereas these....> "depart from me i never knew you" who are religious and water baptized but not a part of the "vine" tho they post verses on Forums , and make Christian Videos...ect, ect....end up in Hell.
They are Those who are told to "depart". They are those who God "takes away".......right into Hell, then the Lake of Fire that is the 2nd Death.

There are no Christians found in Hell.
There are no Christ rejectors, never born again, who will be found in Heaven.

According to my own experience with being born again of the Spirit I know I will never lose my salvation,

You cant stop being "Born again" even if you "wanted to".
As you can't end a Birth....and being born again is a Spiritual Birth.

Imagine some person saying to their mother.......well, i dont have faith to be your child anymore....so, i refuse your birth of me.
Im now longer your child, i refuse your birth of me.
Isnt that Crazy? as they are trying to prove that their Birth isn't real anymore., Yet here they are...
So, that is what a deceived "christian" person is trying to prove to God........as "i can lose my Salvation".
They are trying to prove to God that they can lose The Spiritual BIRTH that God already caused and completed.


Salvation is Completed by Christ and God gives it to you as Eternal Righteousness.

(I have added "desire" to my teachings to emphasize we do NOT have 2 natures.

The sinner has the sin nature
The Born again has the Divine nature, and "the old man of sin" that Paul teaches we must put away.

But I worry about lukewarm Christians and the inevitable "falling away," 2 Thes. 2:3 Don't you?

End times 'falling away" is not to fall away from God........its to fall away from the correct understanding of God's Grace, that is Jesus Himself., Crucified as our Eternal Salvation.

This is why there are so many false gospels up and running , and so many "christians" in these end times trying to stay saved, instead of Trusting in Christ for their eternal Salvation.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Correct.

Carnal deeds that the Christian commits, are being committed when they are "not under the Law", but under Grace".
So, this means that the Law has no dominion whereby it can charge the sinner with "sin".
This is why Paul told us in these KJV verses, that God does not charge sin to the born again.
He can't... as He has already charged our Sin to Jesus.

Behold, what you responded to was my quote of yours. That is why you responded, "Correct." You were agreeing with yourself. LOL

The law is in effect for a sinner of lawlessness - sins unto death. Paul says of those sins, "the wages of sin is death." Behold, you do agree don't you that according to 1 John 3:9 that a born again Christian cannot commit lawless (vs. 4) sins. It is unintentional trespasses that a Christian born of God are able to commit and not be charged, 1 John 1:7. As teachers of the Word, you and I need to teach the meaning the Apostles were making, and the subject of sin needs to also distinguish between sins of the flesh and unintentional immature fruit. (By "unintentional" the Apostles mean when Jesus is playing the role of the Finisher of our faith, long since the beginning when being the Author of our faith.) I know we agree that Romans 7:14-25 is NOT a Christian, while others say they are.

There is no need to teach a Christian how to be born again, as they are already born again.

Well, it is true that Jesus is the Author of our faith in becoming born again of the Spirit. But not all church goers ARE born again. I thought you knew that. This is an important distinction you need to add to your teaching, and why I spend most of my time in fixing brainwashed church goers, than the unsaved in the world. (I don't get out much.)

You would lead an unbeliever, who is not a "church goer"........to Salvation, Through Christ.

The best way to lead an unbeliever to seek Christ is to tell them our testimony like Paul did. On another site I've been on an atheist forums doing that.

The ministry of reconciliation is one of the classes I teach, = Chrisitans,.......among other NT revelations.
I teach people who are new and longtime Christians, that God does not charge sin to them, ever again.
And until they learn this, and believe it..... they will be led of cults and similar commentaries and demonic online sites, and by heretics on christian forums , to believe they can lose they can lose their salvation. And once they are led to believe this lie, their faith is ruin.
They become "fallen from Grace".

Interesting. I teach pastors and teachers who are so confused they are in the habit of reading commentaries to make sense of it all. I give them the Abingdon Commentary of 1929 I keep buying off ebay. If they are going to keep getting ideas from commentaries instead of the Holy Spirit they might as well read one with fewer errors in doctrine. Its been a long time since I cracked open a commentary on the Bible. 1 John 2:27.

Sin itself separates us from God, until it is forgiven.

Jesus died on The Cross to offer this forgivness, so that a sinner may be eternally reconciled to God.

Of course, you are talking of an unbeliever first becoming a Christian having the sins of his PAST forgiven. 2 Peter 1:9. That is why 1 John 1:9 is for the cleansing of all unrighteousness of our past, not present and future sins of the flesh, as some use this verse. I know we agree on that as I recall.

A Christian Liar is soneone who says......>"well, i never intentially sin.......all my sins are accidents and mistakes".

"I never willfully sin.".

I meet a lot of this type of carnal person on "christian forums" for many years.

God has been dealing with them for a lot longer.

It would be good if you studied the Old Covenant as it is our schoolmaster, and puts New Covenant sin into God's perspective.

Numbers 15:22-29
22 ‘If you sin unintentionally, and do not observe all these commandments which the Lord has spoken to Moses— 23 all that the Lord has commanded you by the hand of Moses, from the day the Lord gave commandment and onward throughout your generations— 24 then it will be, if it is unintentionally committed, [a]without the knowledge of the congregation, that the whole congregation shall offer one young bull as a burnt offering, as a sweet aroma to the Lord, with its grain offering and its drink offering, according to the ordinance, and one kid of the goats as a sin offering. 25 So the priest shall make atonement for the whole congregation of the children of Israel, and it shall be forgiven them, for it was unintentional; they shall bring their offering, an offering made by fire to the Lord, and their sin offering before the Lord, for their unintended sin. 26 It shall be forgiven the whole congregation of the children of Israel and the stranger who dwells among them, because all the people did it unintentionally. 27 ‘And if a person sins unintentionally, then he shall bring a female goat in its first year as a sin offering. 28 So the priest shall make atonement for the person who sins unintentionally, when he sins unintentionally before the Lord, to make atonement for him; and it shall be forgiven him. 29 You shall have one law for him who sins unintentionally, for him who is native-born among the children of Israel and for the stranger who dwells among them.

I better stop here before this gets over 10,000 words and I have to chop it up again. I'll finish tomorrow I hope.

 

[PS95]

Wow, I had no idea JWs believed some of this stuff, especially dying for your own sins! I've talked to one about doctrines of Christianity and couldn't tell they weren't Christian. I'll have to rethink not worrying about them.

You wouldn't! Heck, neither did I.
I was raised in it and didn't fully leave it until I was in my early 30's. I was not baptized as a Jw. I felt something was missing. I did NOt know that teaching! Many years later--
It wasn't until I spoke to my Jw sister - just after my father's funeral (Jw).
She said she was happy that at least NOW his sins were paid for.
I said-- Now? What do you mean?
She replied- His death paid for his sins!
I said-- huh? You mean Jesus paid for his sins?
She laughed --and said, no of course not- Jesus doesn't pay for our sins!
I said- We all die- that's not right!!
She said- sure it is- in Romans 6-and death was Adam's punishment..
I said- what? Romans doesn't teach that.
I was so shocked I could not even speak. My heart busted in two.

Our relationship was very strained already, since I had refused baptism many yrs ago and became a Christian and I countered many of their false teachings with scripture- I was essentially shunned-
But a funeral is considered by Jws, as "family business" so we could speak briefly. My sister is a very devout Jw...
After I left, I thought maybe she was just mistaken. It had been a very trying time losing our dad. Could it be she had misspoken?

So, I texted her to verify and she doubled down. So, I researched it in old JW books I have, and also on their website etc. It is all fully documented. She was not mistaken at all- she was exactly right.
It is a cherry picking of 2 partial verses in Romans 6.
What is it with Romans?
They take Ro 6 v7 (which is 1/7 of a sentence) and combine it with the first half of v 23
You end up with-- Are you ready?
v 7 & 23
the one who has died is freed from sin & the wages of sin is death.
AND--
The doctrine they formed is---- your physical death pays for your own sins and since it is your wages for sin you are now all paid up!

Deeds in this life wont be judged.. Jesus paid for resurrections for those who paid for their sins by death so they are now sinless----
You can earn eternal life in the 1000 yrs.. if you obey the new rules..
where elect jws in heaven will rule over you on earth with the apostles and Michael.. (Jesus)

It is UNREAL that anyone could believe that.

After all those years of wondering just what it was about them that was missing... it finally all clicked.
JESUS.

 

[Behold]

"Correct." You were agreeing with yourself. LOL

Correct.

I know we agree that Romans 7:14-25 is NOT a Christian, while others say they are.

Actually its Christians who have this idea that Christianity is........>>"that which i want to do i can't and that which i hate i do".
So, its these "fallen from Grace" .. Christians who believe and teach that this is real "Christianity".

You can ask Ronald Nolette, or NetChaplin, here on this forum, as they both teach that "Sin, confess, (repent) then repeat" is "Christianity"
They'll tell you that they sin and believe they have to confess it to stay saved., because they dont understand that "Jesus is the ONE TIME>.. Eternal Sacrifice for Sin">.....because "GOD hath made Jesus to BE SIN.. for us".

But not all church goers ARE born again.

Not all the people on this forum who claim to be "christians" are born again.
Id rate it at about 50/50 on this forum.

The best way to lead an unbeliever to seek Christ is to tell them our testimony like Paul did. On another site I've been on an atheist forums doing that.

Sharing what Christ has done for you and what He means to you is a wonderful way to witness, the best.

Interesting. I teach pastors and teachers who are so confused they are in the habit of reading commentaries to make sense of it all. I give them the Abingdon Commentary of 1929 I keep buying off ebay. If they are going to keep getting ideas from commentaries instead of the Holy Spirit they might as well read one with fewer errors in doctrine. Its been a long time since I cracked open a commentary on the Bible. 1 John 2:27.

I dont use commentaries.

1 John 1:9 is for the cleansing of all unrighteousness of our past,

The Apostle were preachers, and some NT verses show the apostle preaching to unbelievers.

1 Jn 1:9 is such a verse, as well as Hebrews 10:26

The 1 Jn verse speaks about "not having the truth in you" and of course all Christians have the truth in them, as Jesus is the Truth... (John 14:6), and He is in every born again believer.

Heb 10:26, says that these HEBREWS were "enlightened" and "tasted the heavenly gift".
Whereas Christians are eternal "children of the Light" and have "eaten Christ"......not just "tasted the gift."

"eaten Christ" is not the MaryCult idea of the Eucharist.....its simply to have taken Christ into your heart by faith.

It would be good if you studied the Old Covenant as it is our schoolmaster, and puts New Covenant sin into God's perspective.

Ive studied it.
You can't have a seminiay education and not study the OC.......and over the years, ive taught it a lot, as a comparison/contrast with the New.
Any time im showing a Christian that they are "not under the law, but under Grace" and they are not a "sinner".....then im addressing the OC that has been replaced by the New Testament.

Numbers 15:22-29
22 ‘If you sin unintentionally,

97% of the carnal deeds that are committed by a Christian that the Old Covenant Law defined as "sin" = are willfull.

Christians are not being honest if they try to pretend that whatever those deeds are......they didnt choose to do them.
Sure they did.
= Willfully, and then they confessed it, because they dont understand The Cross of Christ, and then the next time they do it again... they did it willfully again.

"sin, confess, repeat"......this is broken discipleship that is based on being "fallen from Grace".
This is a Christians who has no power to live Godly because they do not understand God's Salvation as "finished".
So, they are trying to keep themselves saved, by doing this, or not doing that.. and that is self saving, which proves they have no real Faith in Christ, tho they will pretend they do.

You can't have real faith in Christ if you believe you are in charge of not losing your salvation., because now you are become the failed Savior, and that is proof the person is "fallen from Grace" and has broken faith.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Born again "in Christ" when i was 17, and was called into the ministry, later when i was 26.

Thanks. I saw you responded so am answering. Then will go back and hopefully finish the one to you from before.

Jesus is making the distincition between being in Him, ..vs not actually being in him while trying to be like Him.
See, the Born again bear fruit, whereas these....> "depart from me i never knew you" who are religious and water baptized but not a part of the "vine" tho they post verses on Forums , and make Christian Videos...ect, ect....end up in Hell.
They are Those who are told to "depart". They are those who God "takes away".......right into Hell, then the Lake of Fire that is the 2nd Death.

There are no Christians found in Hell.
There are no Christ rejectors, never born again, who will be found in Heaven.

I do know I worry about "the Church." Especially pastors and what they teach! That is why I zero in on them. Not on the forums, as I don't know who is and whose not. In person. I join home Bible studies that multiple pastors are in. The last one had four.

You cant stop being "Born again" even if you "wanted to".
As you can't end a Birth....and being born again is a Spiritual Birth.

Imagine some person saying to their mother.......well, i dont have faith to be your child anymore....so, i refuse your birth of me.
Im now longer your child, i refuse your birth of me.
Isnt that Crazy? as they are trying to prove that their Birth isn't real anymore., Yet here they are...
So, that is what a deceived "christian" person is trying to prove to God........as "i can lose my Salvation".
They are trying to prove to God that they can lose The Spiritual BIRTH that God already caused and completed.


Salvation is Completed by Christ and God gives it to you as Eternal Righteousness.

Jesus will complete what He truly starts.

The Born again has the Divine nature, and "the old man of sin" that Paul teaches we must put away.

I can't take away my sin, only Jesus can. The old man is our sin nature. I believe it is the Holy Spirit that does the crucifying, not us, because Jesus is both Author and Finisher of my faith.

End times 'falling away" is not to fall away from God........its to fall away from the correct understanding of God's Grace, that is Jesus Himself., Crucified as our Eternal Salvation.

This is why there are so many false gospels up and running , and so many "christians" in these end times trying to stay saved, instead of Trusting in Christ for their eternal Salvation.

I don't believe those who "fall away" were atheists, or even agnostics. They believe in God, and even Jesus, but as you said, they were in false gospels. Again, why I target preachers, so they can turn their churches around in the right direction.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Actually its Christians who have this idea that Christianity is........>>"that which i want to do i can't and that which i hate i do".
So, its these "fallen from Grace" .. Christians who believe and teach that this is real "Christianity".

Yes, they are church goers with no power.

Not all the people on this forum who claim to be "christians" are born again.
Id rate it at about 50/50 on this forum.

I only hope it's that high!

I dont use commentaries.

I don't either. Though I have many in my personal library from before I didn't need them.

The Apostle were preachers, and some NT verses show the apostle preaching to unbelievers.

1 Jn 1:9 is such a verse, as well as Hebrews 10:26

The 1 Jn verse speaks about "not having the truth in you" and of course all Christians have the truth in them, as Jesus is the Truth... (John 14:6), and He is in every born again believer.

Heb 10:26, says that these HEBREWS were "enlightened" and "tasted the heavenly gift".
Whereas Christians are eternal "children of the Light" and have "eaten Christ"......not just "tasted the gift."

"eaten Christ" is not the MaryCult idea of the Eucharist.....its simply to have taken Christ into your heart by faith.

I used to look up 1 John 1:8 in commentaries to see if they are a good one or not. If they get that verse wrong, you know they trample on the blood of Jesus and know nothing of what grace truly is. Grace is NOT a license to sin.

Any time im showing a Christian that they are "not under the law, but under Grace" and they are not a "sinner".....then im addressing the OC that has been replaced by the New Testament.

You: "and they are not a sinner"

Seeing as the born again are not a sinner either, I don't assume they are under the law, and just obey in their own power. The power of the Spirit in a born again don't sin either. But they don't have to struggle not to sin, they have a divine nature that naturally doesn't sin. Sin is not part of their nature.

97% of the carnal deeds that are committed by a Christian that the Old Covenant Law defined as "sin" = are willfull.

Christians are not being honest if they try to pretend that whatever those deeds are......they didnt choose to do them.
Sure they did.
= Willfully, and then they confessed it, because they dont understand The Cross of Christ, and then the next time they do it again... they did it willfully again.

"sin, confess, repeat"......this is broken discipleship that is based on being "fallen from Grace".
This is a Christians who has no power to live Godly because they do not understand God's Salvation as "finished".
So, they are trying to keep themselves saved, by doing this, or not doing that.. and that is self saving, which proves they have no real Faith in Christ, tho they will pretend they do.

You can't have real faith in Christ if you believe you are in charge of not losing your salvation., because now you are become the failed Savior, and that is proof the person is "fallen from Grace" and has broken faith.

I would say that carnality is a by-product of a sin nature. They are not born again. They talk the talk, but can't walk the walk. And, yes, their carnality is willful. And even the born again can "sin" willfully, but unintentionally. It is Jesus who convicts of sin. I can look back and see what I was doing when Jesus was still answering my prayers. I realize that I was numb from a false teaching (no conviction) and didn't recognize yet it was wrong. No guilt. Jesus hadn't sensitized my conscience to that sin YET. 2 Peter 1:5-7 But He did later on.


Talk to you later.

 

[Behold]

Jesus will complete what He truly starts.

"God who began salvation (in the born again) will Himself be faithful to complete it".

You can't lose Salvation, as God is faithful to complete it.

I don't believe those who "fall away" were atheists, or even agnostics. They believe in God, and even Jesus, but as you said, they were in false gospels. Again, why I target preachers, so they can turn their churches around in the right direction.

A sinner can come "to the knowledge of the Truth"........and that is the Holy Spirit enlightening them......so, that sinner has just "tasted the heavenly gift".
Will they stop ? or will they give their Faith in Christ to God. ??

Perhaps the 2 saddest situations found in Hell are these people..

1.) "but i was water baptised, and they told me that the water washed away my sin.......you mean it didnt' !!!!!!""

2.) "i knew it was true......i knew to trust in Jesus...........i knew it, knew it, knew it.......why did i wait !!!!!""

 

[Behold]

Sin is not part of their nature.

And their old nature is "Crucified with Christ".........so, that ends the "law", over them.

However, the Christian has to deal with their flesh., and what they do wrong is try to resist it, ..... by self effort.
So, that is flesh resisting flesh.....and that makes it worse.

The way OUT of the "sin consciousness" is to understand God's Grace perfectly, and rest there.
As then, they've become "as many as be perfect", Paul explains.
See, a person who understands that they are become "THE Righteoiusness of God, in Christ"........has left thinking about sin and trying to resist it.
And that is the power that overcomes. They found it.....and that is what i teach Christians more then anything else.
How to get your mind of faith, RIGHT.....so that God's Grace becomes your empowerment.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

You wouldn't! Heck, neither did I.
I was raised in it and didn't fully leave it until I was in my early 30's. I was not baptized as a Jw. I felt something was missing. I did NOt know that teaching! Many years later--
It wasn't until I spoke to my Jw sister - just after my father's funeral (Jw).
She said she was happy that at least NOW his sins were paid for.
I said-- Now? What do you mean?
She replied- His death paid for his sins!
I said-- huh? You mean Jesus paid for his sins?
She laughed --and said, no of course not- Jesus doesn't pay for our sins!
I said- We all die- that's not right!!
She said- sure it is- in Romans 6-and death was Adam's punishment..
I said- what? Romans doesn't teach that.
I was so shocked I could not even speak. My heart busted in two.

Our relationship was very strained already, since I had refused baptism many yrs ago and became a Christian and I countered many of their false teachings with scripture- I was essentially shunned-
But a funeral is considered by Jws, as "family business" so we could speak briefly. My sister is a very devout Jw...
After I left, I thought maybe she was just mistaken. It had been a very trying time losing our dad. Could it be she had misspoken?

So, I texted her to verify and she doubled down. So, I researched it in old JW books I have, and also on their website etc. It is all fully documented. She was not mistaken at all- she was exactly right.
It is a cherry picking of 2 partial verses in Romans 6.
What is it with Romans?
They take Ro 6 v7 (which is 1/7 of a sentence) and combine it with the first half of v 23
You end up with-- Are you ready?
v 7 & 23
the one who has died is freed from sin & the wages of sin is death.
AND--
The doctrine they formed is---- your physical death pays for your own sins and since it is your wages for sin you are now all paid up!

Deeds in this life wont be judged.. Jesus paid for resurrections for those who paid for their sins by death so they are now sinless----
You can earn eternal life in the 1000 yrs.. if you obey the new rules..
where elect jws in heaven will rule over you on earth with the apostles and Michael.. (Jesus)

It is UNREAL that anyone could believe that.

After all those years of wondering just what it was about them that was missing... it finally all clicked.
JESUS.

I have just gone by that one conversation with that JW and have accepted them as "not a cult." But what you are telling here has CULT written all over it.

 

[Behold]

The doctrine they formed is---- your physical death pays for your own sins and since it is your wages for sin you are now all paid up!

Jesus teaches the opposite.
He teaches that if you dont place your trust in Him, then "you shall die IN your sins".

Intetesting that a verse that so reveals the JW teaching as false, is apparently never read by JW's.
But on the other hand, they probably have a nice false answer waiting for anyone who shows them that verse.

 

[Davy]

The Law is still in effect for SINNERS. But for the born again, they become born again by having the sin removed from their nature so God can write His laws on their heart as part of the New Covenant. Then we must walk in the Spirit.

I hope you read and understand all this:

Don't let man's 'religiosity' fool you. As long as you are in a flesh body you will... continue to have future sin. See what Apostle Paul taught about that per Romans 7 involving the "law of sin". Our hope in Christ is that it is small sins that are forgiven, and not sin unto death...

1 John 5:16-17
16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
KJV

Even when we may have a thought of revenge against someone who does us wrong, without taking any physical action against the person, the thought of wanting revenge in itself is unrighteousness; it is a sin, but not a sin unto death.

The matter is, and like I referenced Paul in Romans 7 about the "law of sin" that Paul said is in our fleshy members, as long as we are in these flesh bodies, we are going to have sin. That is actually Apostle Paul's message there. So when any of the Apostles speak of how God's people do not sin, it actually means non-intentionally, not living in sin. This is why Apostle John taught that we then need to repent per 1 John 1, when we do find ourselves in a future sin.

Understanding Paul in Romans 7 about the "law of sin" in our fleshy members he said, caused Paul to claim a sense of hopelessness in this present life because of it until he mentions how Lord Jesus' sacrifice has freed us from sin for those who believe, but in the 'spiritual sense', not in the flesh sense. Our flesh body is still... subject to the "law of sin" like Apostle Paul taught there, and always will be.

Rom 7:18-25
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
KJV

THE SECRET:
The idea that after having been "born again" through The Holy Spirit by Faith on Jesus Christ, thinking it means our flesh is miraculously freed from the "law of sin", is not a Biblical idea.

That is an idea from THIS world. Like I have shown before, Apostle Paul in Galatians 5 revealed we are only dead to the law IF... we walk by The Spirit. And to be able to walk by The Spirit and NEVER have ANY future sin of the flesh at all, means the false idea of FLESH PERFECTION.


Flesh Perfection Is False, And Is an Idea From the Occult:

The pagan Occultists are taught that man can reach 'physical perfection' in this life, and be freed from the wheel of rebirth (an Eastern religion idea from the false theory of reincarnation). That is the state of perfection what the Eastern religion calls Nirvana. Other pagan religions follow suit with that idea that we can achieve flesh perfection during this present world. That old serpent, the devil himself, was preaching that very idea of flesh perfection to Eve when he lied to her that she could become a god. It is the same false idea when some fake preachers teach that the Christian can become their 'own' Christ. ANY... idea that our flesh can become perfect like Lord Jesus Christ was when He came in the flesh is Satan's original LIE first aimed at Eve in God's Garden.

We are to strive... to be 'perfect', but that never means our flesh can actually become perfect, because our flesh is subject to the "law of sin", and we, our real person, our soul with spirit, is only... released from our flesh and that "law of sin" at death of our flesh, or at the change to our spiritual body at the last trump when Lord Jesus returns. That is why Apostle Paul said in Romans 6:7 that one who is dead is freed from sin.

 

[Davy]

Working out your Salvation is to understand what it is, and how to exist within it.
For example.......you have people on this forum who believe they can lose their Salvation.
So, they do not understand God's Grace, as "imputed righteousness", so, they have not "worked out their salvation" yet.

What you are saying is not Biblical. Instead, it is man's false OSAS theory.

The ONLY believers on Christ that can NEVER fall away are His chosen very elect that He already owns (see John 17). All other believers, which are 'called' only, but NOT chosen very elect, CAN fall away from Christ, as many of those have fallen away already since the history of Christ's Church.

So you can listen to men's lies all you want, but the Biblical Measure is what counts, not what those deceived men claim, who slice n' dice parts of God's Word to make it say what 'they'... want, instead of grasping the whole Loaf of Bread like all believers are supposed to know. OSAS is a fragment in the basket gathered up after man has toyed with the Whole Loaf.

 

[Behold]

. Our flesh body is still... subject to the "law of sin" like Apostle Paul taught there, and always will be.

Paul's doctrine teaches that our "Old man of sin is crucified with Christ"

So, if you are not doing what Paul told you to do about that, ("Reckon him DEAD").. then you will be fighing your carnal nature, and the fruit of this situation is your failed discipleship, that is "sin, confess, repeat"... @Davy .

Romans 7, is not Christianity.......Romans 7, is the beginning of Paul's teaching where He is showing you that if you try to live a holy life by striving against sin, then the Law becomes this in your case.. = "The power of sin, is the Law".
"The Law" is representing self effort to try to DO Christianity, and this cant be done, as Christianity is Spiritual, and is empowered spiritually, by God's GRACE = only.

So, when a carnally minded person is trying to work righteousness by self effort, then your flesh become empowered by "the Law" and you become sin conscious, and you can't escape it.
People who are caught in this carnal trap, want to chronically talk about sin, and confessing it, and Romans 7., and "losing salvation".

Paul teaches, that when we rest in God's Grace, Hebrews 13:9..("Establish your heart with Grace") and understand that we are always "made righteous" always made sinless by the Blood of Jesus.... then the Law can't empower your flesh into carnality.
Christians with wrong faith, who are not understanding God Grace, will be found in their carnal mind that keeps you under its power, and this is why you can't become this..

Paul teaches : "Christ ALWAYS Gives us the VICTORY".. over the flesh, the world , and the devil.

 

[Behold]

What you are saying is not Biblical.

Paul's doctrine teaches that our "Old man of sin is crucified with Christ"

So, if you are not doing what Paul told you to do about that, ("Reckon him DEAD").. then you will be fighing your carnal nature, and the fruit of this situation is your failed discipleship, that is "sin, confess, repeat"... @Davy .

Romans 7, is not Christianity.......Romans 7, is the beginning of Paul's teaching where He is showing you that if you try to live a holy life by striving against sin, then the Law becomes this in your case.. = "The power of sin, is the Law".
"The Law" is representing self effort to try to DO Christianity, and this cant be done, as Christianity is Spiritual, and is empowered spiritually, by God's GRACE = only.

So, when a carnally minded person is trying to work righteousness by self effort, then your flesh become empowered by "the Law" and you become sin conscious, and you can't escape it.
People who are caught in this carnal trap, want to chronically talk about sin, and confessing it, and Romans 7., and "losing salvation".

Paul teaches, that when we rest in God's Grace, Hebrews 13:9..("Establish your heart with Grace") and understand that we are always "made righteous" always made sinless by the Blood of Jesus.... then the Law can't empower your flesh into carnality.
Christians with wrong faith, who are not understanding God Grace, will be found in their carnal mind that keeps you under its power, and this is why you can't become this..

Paul teaches : "Christ ALWAYS Gives us the VICTORY".. over the flesh, the world , and the devil.

 

[Davy]

Paul's doctrine teaches that our "Old man of sin is crucified with Christ"

So, if you are not doing what Paul told you to do about that, ("Reckon him DEAD").. then you will be fighing your carnal nature, and the fruit of this situation is your failed discipleship, that is "sin, confess, repeat"... @Davy .

Romans 7, is not Christianity.......Romans 7, is the beginning of Paul's teaching where He is showing you that if you try to live a holy life by striving against sin, then the Law becomes this in your case.. = "The power of sin, is the Law".
"The Law" is representing self effort to try to DO Christianity, and this cant be done, as Christianity is Spiritual, and is empowered spiritually, by God's GRACE = only.

Only a NON-CHRISTIAN would claim that Apostle Paul's Romans 7 Chapter is NOT Christianity! The whole Book of Romans, and Galatians, are the FOUNDATIONAL BOOKS of Christianity by Apostle Paul.

And it is obvious... that you cannot distinguish the difference between your FLESH and your spirit with soul. God's Word teaches there is NO SALVATION OF OUR FLESH.

 

[Davy]

I have just gone by that one conversation with that JW and have accepted them as "not a cult." But what you are telling here has CULT written all over it.

Nevertheless, ANY... group that claims God's Salvation and does NOT believe that Lord Jesus' death and resurrection forgave our sins that are past, IS NOT CHRISTIAN, but a cult.

Acts 4:10-12
10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, Whom ye crucified, Whom God raised from the dead, even by Him doth this man stand here before you whole.

11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.

12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
KJV

To believe that by one's own personal death their sins are forgiven, that is to claim that we 'each' are our OWN Salvation unto our self. That is a direct LIE from the devil, because it goes back to the devil's claim towards Eve that she can become her own god. And if a god, you save yourself! Thus ANY... religious body that teaches such a LIE from the devil reveals having been influenced by the devil.

 

[Behold]

Only a NON-CHRISTIAN would claim that Apostle Paul's Romans 7 Chapter is NOT Christianity! SALVATION OF OUR FLESH.

Let me be more specific for you. @Davy

Paul wrote 13 epistles.......and all of the epistles are "Christianity".
Paul wrote all the doctrine for the Church.

However, Romans 7, is the beginning of a deeper understanding , (the begininng of a powerful teaching by Paul), whereby he explains what it means to be caught up in self effort (the carnal mind of the flesh) to try to perform for God to be accepted...and how this is not Salvation as designed by God's GRACE.

Romans 7 begins this teaching by showing you the CARNAL MINDED effect of trying to perform self effort to try to be accepted by God.
And Paul explains that when you are doing that then ..... "what you would do, you can't, and what you hate, you will do".
Paul continues His teaching on this , in other Epistles, specifically Philippians 3.
And He concludes by teaching that it is "Christ in Him, that is His only power", that "when i am weak then Christ is STRONG IN ME"... and this is where Paul confirmes.... in the end of Paul's teaching.. that perfected discipeship is only gained and maintained as "Christ always gives me the Victory."""

So, the Christian must stop trying to do that for themselves, and instead learn to rest in God's Grace, understanding that Righteousness is a Gift from God..., and they are always "made righteous"...
The Chrisitan has to come to understand that perfected faith and perfected discipleship is "i can do all things Through Christ, which strengthens me'"........vs, im trying to be good......im trying to live holy... Im trying to keep commandments,.. im trying to perform for God, ..im trying by self effort to do it ALL BY MYSELF.

 

[Davy]

Let me be more specific for you. @Davy

Paul wrote 13 epistles.......and all of the epistles are "Christianity".
Paul wrote all the doctrine for the Church.

However, Romans 7, is the beginning of a deeper understanding , (the begininng of a powerful teaching by Paul), whereby he explains what it means to be caught up in self effort (the carnal mind of the flesh) to try to perform for God to be accepted...and how this is not Salvation as designed by God's GRACE.
....

Nah... you like many, only try to HIDE what Apostle Paul taught in Romans 7 about the "law of sin" he said that is in our FLESHY MEMBERS. Even modern Bible translations try to hide that by changing the idea of flesh there into men's silly philosophical spiritualistic terms like 'humanist' philosophy! So you... can try... and hide that movement here too all you want about Romans 7, but the simplicity that Paul taught there about the "law of sin" in our FLESHY MEMBERS CANNOT BE DENIED THERE.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Don't let man's 'religiosity' fool you. As long as you are in a flesh body you will... continue to have future sin. See what Apostle Paul taught about that per Romans 7 involving the "law of sin". Our hope in Christ is that it is small sins that are forgiven, and not sin unto death...

Before I read any further in your post, please give me the address of the text I underlined. I have never read a verse like that regarding a born again Christian. It sounded more like the Jews under the law before Christ to me. Thanks.