The Alexandria Christian School in Old Egypt And Amillennialism

[Davy]

BRETHREN IN CHRIST:

Just so you know, there was a Christian school at Alexandria, Egypt around the year 176 A.D.

One of the main problems it had was being surrounded by all the Greek paganism, Gnostics, and Neoplatonists who's ideas crept in among some of those at the Christian school, like Clement of Alexandria and Origen, which Origen was excommunicated because he treated literal Truth in God's written Word instead as allegory.

Alexandria text is where some claim is the origin of the oldest existing Greek New Testament manuscripts, and such was used in modern NT translations like the NIV. However, those Greek text show little wear, and do not exist in majority, which means they did not have a lot of use, whereas the Greek text used for the Received Text make up the majority of Greek New Testament manuscripts (2000+), and show the most wear, but the Majority text are copies that just do not date as far back as the Alexandria text. One would think that the Greek text that showed the most circulation and use was the one most agreed upon and accepted historically by the early Christian Church. The so-called doctors of modern Textual Criticism have their own ideas though, and instead push the Alexandria text over the Textus Receptus. (See the documentary Bridge To Babylon for evidence of this.)

Per the writings of 1st century Church fathers, they showed they believed Christ's future "thousand years" reign of Revelation 20 that begins at His future 2nd coming will be a literal reign. And that is exactly how that "thousand years" idea is written of in the Revelation 20 Chapter.


Here is a list of early Church fathers that supported the doctrine of 'Historic Premillennialism', i.e., that Christ's "thousand years" reign will be literal, and begins at His future 2nd coming:

Papias - 60-130 A.D.
Irenaeus - 125-202 A.D.
Justin Martyr - 100-165 A.D.
Tertullian - 155 - 220 A.D.
Theophilus - 183 A.D.
Melito of Sardis - 100-180 A.D.
Hippolytus of Rome - 170-235 A.D.
Tatian the Syrian - 120 - 180 A.D.

Those are only a few of the early Church fathers that Christ's future "thousand years" reign as literal, and not as some spiritual allegory like some in the early Alexandria school at Egypt believed. Their theory of Amillennialism began to creep into the early Church in the 2nd century A.D. when pagan Gnosticism from the Greeks began to creep in. And we know per Apostle Paul's Epistles that there were already some wolves in sheep's clothing that had crept into the early Christian Church, and were twisting God's Truth even as early and Paul's day.


THE TWO SIDES:
Just as God also showed in Genesis 3:15 about the two seeds He placed in emnity against each other, Satan's children vs. God's children, likewise this matter of the creeping in of pagan philosphy, the devil's work, began also creeping into the early Church. Irenaeus made lengthy writings about pagan Gnosticism in his day.

1. All pagan idol worship and philosphy had its historical origins in ancient Sumer-Babylon. It was the origin of ancient Baal idol worship. All later forms of idol worship sprang from it.

2. In ancient Babylon, Egypt, Greece, Rome, etc., the pagan ruling religious class held to and taught to those selected what they called "the mysteries". Another term used for them is the "Mystery Schools". Their claim of the 'mysteries' is about esoteric occult knowledge, hidden knowledge, secret things. And only with one petitioning to join into their 'mysteries' and going through a probation period were allowed to partake of the 'mysteries'.

3. The 'mysteries' taught by the Mystery Schools of paganism involve pagan ritual, even immoral sexual ritual, initiation through progression of degrees, various secret signs among members, ceremonial magic, black magic, primitive magic, witchcraft, incantations, idol worship, and worse acts that I won't mention (see Manly P. Hall's Secret Teachings of All Ages, and The Golden Bough, if interested).

It may be difficult to believe that there are still people in today's world that take part in such 'mysteries', but one would be surprised, that it includes even members that are high up officials in governments, education, science, etc., basically from all walks of life.

That... is where ancient pagan philosophy originated; Babylonian, Egyptian, Oriental, Roman, Greek philosophy, Gnosticism, the secret fraternities of initiation, all from the same initial source, the devil and his children.


Christianity, Our Side - the side of the symbolic seed of the "woman" of Genesis 3, the family of Christ, meaning those who believe on The Father and His Son Jesus Christ. Ever since Cain slew his brother Abel, God's children have had to deal with the devil's children of darkness. And the way the devil does that against Christians is by creeping into the learning centers of Christianity, and into mainstream Church organizations, and writing posts, and editing posts, and even Bible translation committees.

The NIV translation of the New Testament for example, which includes readings from the Alexandria text, contains many examples of the conspired removal of the Deity of Lord Jesus Christ. The doctrine of Gnosticism particularly did not believe historically, nor today, that Jesus of Nazareth, The Christ, is God The Son.

The Gnostics instead taught that Jesus lived to old age, and married and had children, and did not really die on the cross, but was removed by His disciples beforehand. Some of the mystical initiate secret fraternities still teach that lie from Gnosticism that Christ Jesus did not really die on the cross. It should be obvious that idea is directly from the devil, because if Jesus Christ did not really die as the one Perfect Sacrifice for sin for one and all time, then it means we all... are doomed to perish with the devil! That's what the devil wants; company in the future "lake of fire" where he is already ordained.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Christianity, Our Side - the side of the symbolic seed of the "woman" of Genesis 3, the family of Christ, meaning those who believe on The Father and His Son Jesus Christ. Ever since Cain slew his brother Abel, God's children have had to deal with the devil's children of darkness. And the way the devil does that against Christians is by creeping into the learning centers of Christianity, and into mainstream Church organizations, and writing posts, and editing posts, and even Bible translation committees.

The NIV translation of the New Testament for example, which includes readings from the Alexandria text, contains many examples of the conspired removal of the Deity of Lord Jesus Christ. The doctrine of Gnosticism particularly did not believe historically, nor today, that Jesus of Nazareth, The Christ, is God The Son.

The Gnostics instead taught that Jesus lived to old age, and married and had children, and did not really die on the cross, but was removed by His disciples beforehand. Some of the mystical initiate secret fraternities still teach that lie from Gnosticism that Christ Jesus did not really die on the cross. It should be obvious that idea is directly from the devil, because if Jesus Christ did not really die as the one Perfect Sacrifice for sin for one and all time, then it means we all... are doomed to perish with the devil! That's what the devil wants; company in the future "lake of fire" where he is already ordained.

Your post is pure trash and full of lies. Amillennialists believe that Jesus is God, so what in the world is the point of all that nonsense? You think slandering Amills and trying to lump us in with pagans helps your cause? No, it just puts you in danger of hellfire because of your judgmental attitude.

Amillennialism is not based on pagan Gnostic teachings as this liar is claiming. It is based on clear, straightforward scriptures, as I will show.

Revelation 20 talks about the reign of Christ. Scripture explicitly teaches that Christ began to reign after His resurrection.

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Ephesians 1:19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, 20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, 21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: 22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,

Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

Colossians 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: 13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

Revelation 20:6 says that those who reign with Christ are "priests of God and of Christ". Scripture teaches that Christ's followers are priests right now.

1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, 6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Scripture teaches that all believers will have their bodies changed to be immortal while inheriting eternal life in the kingdom of God when Christ returns at the last trumpet (1 Corinthians 15:50-54, Matthew 25:31-46). And it teaches that all unbelievers will be destroyed when He returns which would not allow for any mortals to populate the earth at that point, as the following scriptures indicate.

Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. 36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. 37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

2 Peter 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: 7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men....10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

1 Thessalonians 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

2 Thessalonians 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; 10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

Revelation 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, 18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small.”

Scripture also teaches that the saved and lost will be resurrected at generally the same time or hour and then judged.

John 5:28 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29 and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.

Daniel 12:1 “At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered.2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.

Scripture teaches that all people will be judged at the same time and not that there will be multiple judgments as Premills believe.

Matthew 25:31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. 34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world....41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

Matthew 13:40 As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. 41 The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. 42 They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Whoever has ears, let them hear.

Matthew 13:47 “Once again, the kingdom of heaven is like a net that was let down into the lake and caught all kinds of fish. 48 When it was full, the fishermen pulled it up on the shore. Then they sat down and collected the good fish in baskets, but threw the bad away. 49 This is how it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come and separate the wicked from the righteous 50 and throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

All of these clear, straightforward scriptures I have referenced support Amillennialism. Some Premills try to accuse Amills of over-spiritualizing scripture, but, as I've shown, the foundation of Amillennialism is clear, straightforward scriptures which are used to help interpret more difficult passages. Premillennialism has no such clear, straightforward scriptures to support it.

 

[Davy]

Your post is pure trash and full of lies. Amillennialists believe that Jesus is God, so what in the world is the point of all that nonsense? You think slandering Amills and trying to lump us in with pagans helps your cause? No, it just puts you in danger of hellfire because of your judgmental attitude.

Amillennialism is not based on pagan Gnostic teachings as this liar is claiming. It is based on clear, straightforward scriptures, as I will show.

....

Well sadly, my post is based on historical truth. The theory of Amilennialism began in the 2nd century at the same time when Gnosticism crept into the early Church. Just because it was taught by some in the Church later in the 2nd century A.D., and like Augustine in the 4th century who especially made the doctrine popular, does not make Augustine, et al authors of The Bible.

Amillennialism goes DIRECTLY against the Biblical 2nd coming of Lord Jesus Christ and His beginning reign over the nations with His "rod of iron" per Psalms 2 and Revelation.

Amillennialism instead preaches that we have already been in that Millennial reign since the start of the early Church, and that Christ today, now, is already reigning over the nations. That idea is NOT Biblical at all. Some of the early Church fathers of the 2nd century bought into that LIE because they thought by the evidence of The Gospel having spread to the western nations, that Christ's reign had then come true. But they had to REJECT much of Christ's Book of Revelation in order to believe that. Yet some did, and those you follow of that same ilk of deceived.

 

[Randy Kluth]

There is a conflation here between an argument over biblical text types and symbolic interpretation. They are not the same.

The argument against the Alexandrian text is weak because the assumption is made that the Majority, or Byzantine, text has been used more. But that is the product of the fall of the area where the earlier Alexandrian text was prominent. It was left for the Byzantines to use their own preferred text, which came into form later.

Though it's true that allegorization was practiced in the Alexandrian area it was equally practiced in the Byzantine area later. For example, The International Church began to be viewed as "Israel," and the Millennium was interpreted as allegorical, throughout the Church--not just where the Alexandrian text had been used.

That being said, I agree with the more lliteral position, that Israel is Israel--not the International Church, and the Millennium is a literal future Kingdom of God on earth to follow Christ's Return. But both the allegorical interpretation and the literal interpretation of these things are dignified by centuries of Christian belief. One must decide for himself or herself.

 

[WPM]

BRETHREN IN CHRIST:

Just so you know, there was a Christian school at Alexandria, Egypt around the year 176 A.D.

One of the main problems it had was being surrounded by all the Greek paganism, Gnostics, and Neoplatonists who's ideas crept in among some of those at the Christian school, like Clement of Alexandria and Origen, which Origen was excommunicated because he treated literal Truth in God's written Word instead as allegory.

Alexandria text is where some claim is the origin of the oldest existing Greek New Testament manuscripts, and such was used in modern NT translations like the NIV. However, those Greek text show little wear, and do not exist in majority, which means they did not have a lot of use, whereas the Greek text used for the Received Text make up the majority of Greek New Testament manuscripts (2000+), and show the most wear, but the Majority text are copies that just do not date as far back as the Alexandria text. One would think that the Greek text that showed the most circulation and use was the one most agreed upon and accepted historically by the early Christian Church. The so-called doctors of modern Textual Criticism have their own ideas though, and instead push the Alexandria text over the Textus Receptus. (See the documentary Bridge To Babylon for evidence of this.)

Per the writings of 1st century Church fathers, they showed they believed Christ's future "thousand years" reign of Revelation 20 that begins at His future 2nd coming will be a literal reign. And that is exactly how that "thousand years" idea is written of in the Revelation 20 Chapter.


Here is a list of early Church fathers that supported the doctrine of 'Historic Premillennialism', i.e., that Christ's "thousand years" reign will be literal, and begins at His future 2nd coming:

Papias - 60-130 A.D.
Irenaeus - 125-202 A.D.
Justin Martyr - 100-165 A.D.
Tertullian - 155 - 220 A.D.
Theophilus - 183 A.D.
Melito of Sardis - 100-180 A.D.
Hippolytus of Rome - 170-235 A.D.
Tatian the Syrian - 120 - 180 A.D.

Those are only a few of the early Church fathers that Christ's future "thousand years" reign as literal, and not as some spiritual allegory like some in the early Alexandria school at Egypt believed. Their theory of Amillennialism began to creep into the early Church in the 2nd century A.D. when pagan Gnosticism from the Greeks began to creep in. And we know per Apostle Paul's Epistles that there were already some wolves in sheep's clothing that had crept into the early Christian Church, and were twisting God's Truth even as early and Paul's day.


THE TWO SIDES:
Just as God also showed in Genesis 3:15 about the two seeds He placed in emnity against each other, Satan's children vs. God's children, likewise this matter of the creeping in of pagan philosphy, the devil's work, began also creeping into the early Church. Irenaeus made lengthy writings about pagan Gnosticism in his day.

1. All pagan idol worship and philosphy had its historical origins in ancient Sumer-Babylon. It was the origin of ancient Baal idol worship. All later forms of idol worship sprang from it.

2. In ancient Babylon, Egypt, Greece, Rome, etc., the pagan ruling religious class held to and taught to those selected what they called "the mysteries". Another term used for them is the "Mystery Schools". Their claim of the 'mysteries' is about esoteric occult knowledge, hidden knowledge, secret things. And only with one petitioning to join into their 'mysteries' and going through a probation period were allowed to partake of the 'mysteries'.

3. The 'mysteries' taught by the Mystery Schools of paganism involve pagan ritual, even immoral sexual ritual, initiation through progression of degrees, various secret signs among members, ceremonial magic, black magic, primitive magic, witchcraft, incantations, idol worship, and worse acts that I won't mention (see Manly P. Hall's Secret Teachings of All Ages, and The Golden Bough, if interested).

It may be difficult to believe that there are still people in today's world that take part in such 'mysteries', but one would be surprised, that it includes even members that are high up officials in governments, education, science, etc., basically from all walks of life.

That... is where ancient pagan philosophy originated; Babylonian, Egyptian, Oriental, Roman, Greek philosophy, Gnosticism, the secret fraternities of initiation, all from the same initial source, the devil and his children.


Christianity, Our Side - the side of the symbolic seed of the "woman" of Genesis 3, the family of Christ, meaning those who believe on The Father and His Son Jesus Christ. Ever since Cain slew his brother Abel, God's children have had to deal with the devil's children of darkness. And the way the devil does that against Christians is by creeping into the learning centers of Christianity, and into mainstream Church organizations, and writing posts, and editing posts, and even Bible translation committees.

The NIV translation of the New Testament for example, which includes readings from the Alexandria text, contains many examples of the conspired removal of the Deity of Lord Jesus Christ. The doctrine of Gnosticism particularly did not believe historically, nor today, that Jesus of Nazareth, The Christ, is God The Son.

The Gnostics instead taught that Jesus lived to old age, and married and had children, and did not really die on the cross, but was removed by His disciples beforehand. Some of the mystical initiate secret fraternities still teach that lie from Gnosticism that Christ Jesus did not really die on the cross. It should be obvious that idea is directly from the devil, because if Jesus Christ did not really die as the one Perfect Sacrifice for sin for one and all time, then it means we all... are doomed to perish with the devil! That's what the devil wants; company in the future "lake of fire" where he is already ordained.

You make a wild unsubstantiated bias statements, and you imagine that makes them facts. Lol. This is typical Premil historic evidence. It is ridiculous. It is non-existent.

1. Where are your actual literal historic quotes that show Theophilus believed Historic Premil? Give us them.
2. Where are your actual literal historic quotes that show Melito of Sardis believed Historic Premil? Give us them.
3. Where are your actual literal historic quotes that show Tatian the Syrian believed Historic Premil? Give us them.

Reader: watch on and see if he has anything. Watch! All he is spreading is lies. He has not researched this. If he did, he would never come out with such nonsense.

Bias ill-informed (or deliberately deceiving Premil writers) simply quote other bias and ill-informed Premil writers who have never actual found evidence but present their opinions as facts. This is not serious scholarship. It is a joke.

 

[Davy]

There is a conflation here between an argument over biblical text types and symbolic interpretation. They are not the same.

The argument against the Alexandrian text is weak because the assumption is made that the Majority, or Byzantine, text has been used more. But that is the product of the fall of the area where the earlier Alexandrian text was prominent. It was left for the Byzantines to use their own preferred text, which came into form later.
....

That theory doesn't hold water, simply because the reason... for the name 'MAJORITY Text' is that they make up the MAJORITY of existant New Testament Greek manuscripts, 2000+.

But the Alexandria text are few in number, and the ones that exist show little usage.

So it doesn't take an anvil to fall on someone to figure out that the MAJORITY Text was the main body of New Testament manuscripts used and accepted by the early Christian Church, even though they are not as old as the Alexandria text.

Furthermore, Origen of the Alexandria school was excommunicated by the early Christian Church because teaching much of The Bible as just allegory. So if there existed a Christian authority that could EXCOMMUNICATE Origen, then that Christian authority had to have understood the difference in what he was preaching. And that reveals they understood his teaching had LEFT the written Biblical text. So to claim the early Church that excommunicated him also taught heresy like Origen is an oxymoron.

 

[Davy]

You make a wild unsubstantiated bias statements, and you imagine that makes them facts. Lol. This is typical Premil historic evidence. It is ridiculous. It is non-existent.

1. Where are your actual literal historic quotes that show Theophilus believed Historic Premil? Give us them.
2. Where are your actual literal historic quotes that show Melito of Sardis believed Historic Premil? Give us them.
3. Where are your actual literal historic quotes that show Tatian the Syrian believed Historic Premil? Give us them.

Reader: watch on and see if he has anything. Watch! All he is spreading is lies. He has not researched this. If he did, he would never come out with such nonsense.

Bias ill-informed (or deliberately deceiving Premil writers simply quote other bias and ill-informed Premil writers who have never actual found evidence but present their opinions as facts. This is not serious scholarship. It is a joke.

Brethren, that is how the deniers work. They simply refuse... to do their own homework, and just make false assumptions and demand that others take the time to disprove them.

Quit being lazy WPM, and go do your own homework. I gave you a good link to the writings of early Church fathers, and that's not the only one on the Internet.

 

[WPM]

I agree with the more lliteral position, that Israel is Israel--not the International Church, and the Millennium is a literal future Kingdom of God on earth to follow Christ's Return. But both the allegorical interpretation and the literal interpretation of these things are dignified by centuries of Christian belief. One must decide for himself or herself.

Can you show us which early fathers rejected the idea that the Church was true Israel and that Israel was really Israel?

 

[WPM]

That theory doesn't hold water, simply because the reason... for the name 'MAJORITY Text' is that they make up the MAJORITY of existant New Testament Greek manuscripts, 2000+.

But the Alexandria text are few in number, and the ones that exist show little usage.

So it doesn't take an anvil to fall on someone to figure out that the MAJORITY Text was the main body of New Testament manuscripts used and accepted by the early Christian Church, even though they are not as old as the Alexandria text.

Furthermore, Origen of the Alexandria school was excommunicated by the early Christian Church because teaching much of The Bible as just allegory. So if there existed a Christian authority that could EXCOMMUNICATE Origen, then that Christian authority had to have understood the difference in what he was preaching. And that reveals they understood his teaching had LEFT the written Biblical text. So to claim the Church that excommunicated him also taught heresy like Origen is an oxymoron.

Here you go again.

Where is your evidence that "Origen of the Alexandria school was excommunicated by the early Christian Church because teaching much of The Bible as just allegory"?

 

[WPM]

Brethren, that is how the deniers work. They simply refuse... to do their own homework, and just make false assumptions and demand that others take the time to disprove them.

Quit being lazy WPM, and go do your own homework. I gave you a good link to the writings of early Church fathers, and that's not the only one on the Internet.

The first principle of evidence is: he who alleges must prove. You can prove nothing because what you are posting is all your imagination.

1. Where are your actual literal historic quotes that show Theophilus believed Historic Premil? Give us them.
2. Where are your actual literal historic quotes that show Melito of Sardis believed Historic Premil? Give us them.
3. Where are your actual literal historic quotes that show Tatian the Syrian believed Historic Premil? Give us them.

 

[Davy]

Can you show us which early fathers rejected the idea that the Church was true Israel and that Israel was really Israel?

Can you show us where any of the early Christian Church confirmed the erroneous Jewish idea that ONLY JEWS represent God's people?

 

[WPM]

Can you show us where any of the early Christian Church confirmed the erroneous Jewish idea that ONLY JEWS represent God's people?

What are you talking about? Who said that?

Your avoidance is only exposing the folly and ignorance of your argument. You have nothing. I predicted it. And guess what? You are proving it. You don't have a clue. You're totally out of your depth on this subject.

 

[WPM]

Your post is pure trash and full of lies. Amillennialists believe that Jesus is God, so what in the world is the point of all that nonsense? You think slandering Amills and trying to lump us in with pagans helps your cause? No, it just puts you in danger of hellfire because of your judgmental attitude.

Amillennialism is not based on pagan Gnostic teachings as this liar is claiming. It is based on clear, straightforward scriptures, as I will show.

Revelation 20 talks about the reign of Christ. Scripture explicitly teaches that Christ began to reign after His resurrection.

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Ephesians 1:19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, 20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, 21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: 22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,

Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

Colossians 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: 13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

Revelation 20:6 says that those who reign with Christ are "priests of God and of Christ". Scripture teaches that Christ's followers are priests right now.

1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, 6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Scripture teaches that all believers will have their bodies changed to be immortal while inheriting eternal life in the kingdom of God when Christ returns at the last trumpet (1 Corinthians 15:50-54, Matthew 25:31-46). And it teaches that all unbelievers will be destroyed when He returns which would not allow for any mortals to populate the earth at that point, as the following scriptures indicate.

Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. 36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. 37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

2 Peter 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: 7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men....10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

1 Thessalonians 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

2 Thessalonians 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; 10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

Revelation 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, 18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small.”

Scripture also teaches that the saved and lost will be resurrected at generally the same time or hour and then judged.

John 5:28 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29 and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.

Daniel 12:1 “At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered.2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.

Scripture teaches that all people will be judged at the same time and not that there will be multiple judgments as Premills believe.

Matthew 25:31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. 34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world....41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

Matthew 13:40 As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. 41 The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. 42 They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Whoever has ears, let them hear.

Matthew 13:47 “Once again, the kingdom of heaven is like a net that was let down into the lake and caught all kinds of fish. 48 When it was full, the fishermen pulled it up on the shore. Then they sat down and collected the good fish in baskets, but threw the bad away. 49 This is how it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come and separate the wicked from the righteous 50 and throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

All of these clear, straightforward scriptures I have referenced support Amillennialism. Some Premills try to accuse Amills of over-spiritualizing scripture, but, as I've shown, the foundation of Amillennialism is clear, straightforward scriptures which are used to help interpret more difficult passages. Premillennialism has no such clear, straightforward scriptures to support it.

Bro, look at his responses. He is incapable of proving anything that he claims. It is all in his head. He is delusional. This is how he approaches Scripture as well. He makes it up as it goes. When his argument is expose the resorts to ad hominem and avoidance.

 

[Davy]

What are you talking about? Who said that?

Your avoidance is only exposing the folly and ignorance of your argument. You have nothing. I predicted it. And guess what? You are proving it. You don't have a clue. You're totally out of your depth on this subject.

You Said:
"Can you show us which early fathers rejected the idea that the Church was true Israel and that Israel was really Israel?"

The idea that ONLY flesh born Jews represent God's people is used by Jews all the time, and even by the deceived in the Christian Church. The actual historical evidence though, even by the JEWISH historian Flavius Josephus, is that title of JEW was only about those of the three tribe southern "kingdom of Judah" that went captive to Babylon with only a remnant of them returning to Jerusalem. (See Josephus' Antiquities Of The Jews). The majority of Israelites had been removed long before that, and were not known as Jews.

 

[Davy]

Well WPM is obviously going to keep making HOT AIR posts that are meaningless, trying to force others to his/her limited understanding with loaded questions, when all that is needed is doing homework in the writings of the early Church fathers.

 

[WPM]

You Said:
"Can you show us which early fathers rejected the idea that the Church was true Israel and that Israel was really Israel?"

The idea that ONLY flesh born Jews represent God's people is used by Jews all the time, and even by the deceived in the Christian Church. The actual historical evidence though, even by the JEWISH historian Flavius Josephus, is that title of JEW was only about those of the three tribe southern "kingdom of Judah" that went captive to Babylon with only a remnant of them returning to Jerusalem. (See Josephus' Antiquities Of The Jews). The majority of Israelites had been removed long before that, and were not known as Jews.

LOL. I was asking about the early Church fathers, not Josephus. For info: Josephus was not an early father! You don't get it, do you? Also, I was not asking you. How about answering the questions I directed towards you that you have been carefully avoiding?

 

[WPM]

Well WPM is obviously going to keep making HOT AIR posts that are meaningless, trying to force others to his/her limited understanding with loaded questions, when all that is needed is doing homework in the writings of the early Church fathers.

The only thing you have proved in this thread is that you are are out of your depth and that you have zero evidence foreign your claims.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Well sadly, my post is based on historical truth.

No, it isn't. It's a lie that you came up with in your imagination. Are you afraid to address the clear and straightforward scriptures I showed that support Amillennialism? Your accusation that it began in the 2nd century and is based on allegory is a LIE. YOU are a LIAR.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Well WPM is obviously going to keep making HOT AIR posts that are meaningless, trying to force others to his/her limited understanding with loaded questions, when all that is needed is doing homework in the writings of the early Church fathers.

Your ridiculous and baseless claims only show what a LIAR you are. Thank you for exposing that to everyone, so that everyone knows not to take you seriously.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Bro, look at his responses. He is incapable of proving anything that he claims. It is all in his head. He is delusional. This is how he approaches Scripture as well. He makes it up as it goes. When is argument is expose the resorts to ad hominem and avoidance.

He is an evil, blatant liar. I showed him how our doctrine is based on clear, straightforward scriptures and not on allegories made up in the 2nd century and he just ignored them completely. He is doing nothing but making things up. Scripture overwhelmingly supports Amillennialism, but it's no surprise that he didn't want to address the scriptures. And he also makes up lies about when Amil originated and lies about the ECFs by trying to claim they had all the same beliefs as modern day Premils, which is not the case at all.