Every branch that bears fruit is pruned. - John 15

[Ronald Nolette]

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully AFTER that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

God raised up His Son for this purpose

Acts 3:26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in TURNING AWAY every one of you from his iniquities.

The Son of God will not know these which come in his name but work iniquity

Matt 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: DEPART from me, YE THAT WORK iniquity.

We are told to DEPART from working iniquity

2 Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ DEPART from iniquity.

Jesus Christ does not love iniquity, he hates it

I agree Jesus hates sin. That is why He died and paid for ALL my sins.

But you are taking Hebrews out of its context.

The writer is not even speaking to believers as the letter fully shows.

He is writing to jews who had heard the gospel, were given the full knowledge that jesus was better than bulls and goats.

these people were being tempted to go back to the sacrioficial system due to intense persection by the Jews and Rome.

If they went back, they were facing the judgment of 70 AD as well as being llost

 

[Muna]

I agree Jesus hates sin.

I agree

Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Heb 1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

That is why He died and paid for ALL my sins.

It says here,

Titus 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

But you are taking Hebrews out of its context.

Here is the context

Heb 10
[7] Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
[8] Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
[9] Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
[10] By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
[11] And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
[12] But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
[13] From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
[14] For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
[15] Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
[16] This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
[17] And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
[18] Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
[19] Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
[20] By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
[21] And having an high priest over the house of God;
[22] Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
[23] Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;)
[24] And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
[25] Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
[26] For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
[27] But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
[28] He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
[29] Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
[30] For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
[31] It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

The writer is not even speaking to believers as the letter fully shows.

Believers have faith in Jesus Christ, see verse 10

Heb 10
23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering

You believe this is written to unbelievers?

He is writing to jews who had heard the gospel, were given the full knowledge that jesus was better than bulls and goats.

The Jews have always been the first believers in Jesus Christ

these people were being tempted to go back to the sacrioficial system due to intense persection by the Jews and Rome.

If they went back, they were facing the judgment of 70 AD as well as being llost

And so you really do believe that someone can depart from the faith and be lost.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I agree

Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Heb 1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.


It says here,

Titus 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.



Here is the context

Heb 10
[7] Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
[8] Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
[9] Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
[10] By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
[11] And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
[12] But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
[13] From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
[14] For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
[15] Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
[16] This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
[17] And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
[18] Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
[19] Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
[20] By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
[21] And having an high priest over the house of God;
[22] Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
[23] Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;)
[24] And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
[25] Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
[26] For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
[27] But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
[28] He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
[29] Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
[30] For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
[31] It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.



Believers have faith in Jesus Christ, see verse 10

Heb 10
23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering

You believe this is written to unbelievers?

The Jews have always been the first believers in Jesus Christ

And so you really do believe that someone can depart from the faith and be lost.

No if one is born again, they can never be lost. It is biblically impossible. Being saved is exponentially more than just having sins forgiven.

If you do a linguistic and cultural study of Hebrews, you would know that the wrioter is writing to those who had been preached to but appeared to not have made that commitment to Jesus.

The sin being spoken of here is rejecting Jesus for salvation and returniing to the sacrificial system. These Jews had been given the full knowledge that the law could not save but only Jesus could. It appears that many even gave tacit assent to this truth.

 

[Muna]

No if one is born again, they can never be lost.

So you are now distinguishing between those who believe for awhile and fall away from someone who is truly born of God?

Perhaps you could post some verses of scripture that speaks of those who are said to be born of God?

It is biblically impossible.

So you are now putting a difference between someone who might believe for awhile, but departs from the faith (who you believe is lost) versus someone who is truly born again correct?

Being saved is exponentially more than just having sins forgiven.

Can you provide scriptural examples of this because your former replies seem to indicate that is all you understand it to be.

If you do a linguistic and cultural study of Hebrews, you would know that the wrioter is writing to those who had been preached to but appeared to not have made that commitment to Jesus.

The sin being spoken of here is rejecting Jesus for salvation and returniing to the sacrificial system. These Jews had been given the full knowledge that the law could not save but only Jesus could. It appears that many even gave tacit assent to this truth.

If you go back and just pull from various places in Hebrews they have both hope and faith in Jesus Christ (as anyone would have)

For example, Hebrews speaks of holding fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end

Heb 3:6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

He adresses them as brethren, telling them to take heed that there is an evil heart of unbelief in them (which means they actually believed)

Heb 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

Here again, he tells them to hold to the very beginning of their confidence

Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end

They were professing Jesus Christ.

Heb 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.

So again Hebrews tells them to hold fast their their profession

What would that be exactly?

Hebrews 4:1 Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus

And again speaking a little of Jesus here

Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him

And just as in Acts 5 which says,

Acts 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

Hebrews brings in

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Which confirms someone can believe for awhile as is shown us in Luke 8:13

But of these here it says

Heb 6:10 For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.

And so these have been diligently ministering to the saints, and presently ministering to them.

And Hebrews adds

Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end

 

[Ronald Nolette]

So you are now distinguishing between those who believe for awhile and fall away from someone who is truly born of God?

Perhaps you could post some verses of scripture that speaks of those who are said to be born of God?

Well Scripture says they never truly believed. Because as Scripture says those who believe are given eternal life- not conditional ,probationary eternal life.

Jesus also said they only appeared to believe.

So you are now putting a difference between someone who might believe for awhile, but departs from the faith (who you believe is lost) versus someone who is truly born again correct?

Yes because those born again, though imperfect and will still fall short of the gloryu of God are will persevere.

All your answers concerning Hebrews are man conclusions based on your predisposition that faith + works are required to keep us saved.

 

[Muna]

Well Scripture says they never truly believed.

Jesus said there are they which believe for awhile, but they do not survive the trying of their faith in a time of temptations

Luke 8:13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

Because as Scripture says those who believe are given eternal life- not conditional ,probationary eternal life.

Jesus himself is called "that eternal life" that was with the Father who was given the words of God (Deut 18:18, John 12:49) which are the words of eternal life (John 6:68, John 17:8)

1 John 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have *heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have *handled, of the Word of life;
1 John 1:2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you **that eternal life**, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)

John 6:68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.

2 John 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

As Jesus had said,

John 7:16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.

Whose doctrine we know is according to godliness, and as Hebrews also says,

Heb 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

1 Ti 4:1 Speaks of departing from the faith in the last days as well, so its not just to the Hebrews 3:12 an evil heart of unbelief can be found in departing from the living God.

Jesus also said they only appeared to believe.

John says they are manifest as well.

1 John 3:10
In this the children of God are manifest,
and the children of the devil:
whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God,
neither he that loveth not his brother.

Yes because those born again, though imperfect and will still fall short of the gloryu of God are will persevere.

I will post the "born of God" scripture references I had asked for myself, I don't know why I had asked you to do it for me. This is just me answering me here.

1 John 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1 John 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

1 John 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.

1 John 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

1 John 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

1 John 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

1 John 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

1 John 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

2 John 1:4 I rejoiced greatly that I found of thy children walking in truth, as we have received a commandment from the Father. (1John 1:5-6, John 8:12, Ephes 5:8, 2John 1:6)

Thank you self

All your answers concerning Hebrews are man conclusions based on your predisposition that faith + works are required to keep us saved.

You might mean the scriptures I posted in Hebrews, which I used for the answers.

You are not going to say I am hiding behind scriptures again are you?

Or are you just going to call those my own answers and ignore the fact they are answers I found in Hebrews.

Which verses of saved by works here are you speaking of?

I kept posting

1 Cr 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died FOR OUR SINS according to the scriptures

Isaiah 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him THE INIQUITY of us all.

Romans 5:8 BUT God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while WE WERE YET sinners, Christ died for us.

Romans 5:6 For WHEN WE WERE YET without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly

Gal 1:4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might DELIVER US from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father

Do you believe this is faith (in Jesus) +works (turning away from iniquity) here?

Acts 3:26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him TO BLESS you, IN TURNING AWAY every one of you FROM his iniquities.

Or do you understand a faith + works in the wording here?

Titus 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might REDEEM US from all iniquity, and PURIFY unto himself a peculiar people, ZEALOUS OF good works.

Because, his works is that which redeems us from inquity in the hopes of purifying a people ZEALOUS of good works . This does not mean we are saved by works, but by Him unto the same. We are created in Christ UNTO good works not by them as Ephes 2:10 confirms

Ephes 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created IN Christ Jesus UNTO good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

It's by faith we have access into this grace (Romans 5:2) by which Paul said his works came by

1 Cr 15:10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

He does tell us not to receive his grace in vain even as James speaks to the o vain man when it come to a faith without works being dead. But its by faith we have access into the grace by which we stand and by the same gave Paul laboured (the effect of said grace upon him was certainly not in vain). "I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me."

Which verses show this faith +works that you speak of?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Jesus said there are they which believe for awhile, but they do not survive the trying of their faith in a time of temptations

Luke 8:13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

Once again 1 John 2

1 John 2:19
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

James 2:19
Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

Jesus himself is called "that eternal life" that was with the Father who was given the words of God (Deut 18:18, John 12:49) which are the words of eternal life (John 6:68, John 17:8)

1 John 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have *heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have *handled, of the Word of life;
1 John 1:2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you **that eternal life**, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)

John 10:28
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

And once eternal life is given-they shall never perish!

Heb 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

1 Ti 4:1 Speaks of departing from the faith in the last days as well, so its not just to the Hebrews 3:12 an evil heart of unbelief can be found in departing from the living God.

Part A isa those who do not have saving faith. this sentence compares two different type of people. unsaved and sacved.

Titus 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might REDEEM US from all iniquity, and PURIFY unto himself a peculiar people, ZEALOUS OF good works.

is unbelief an iniquity??? Can you show a clear verse that says a child of God if they stop believing loses their child of God status, becomes un-born again, has eternal life revoked and perish and are plucke dout of Jesus' and the Fathers' hands?

 

[Muna]

@Ronald Nolette (I have to break this post up to fit it on this thread) but it will be my last post to you on this.

When you said, back here in

Post #42 Second you are saying that salvation is by grace through faith and your works- that is so wrong.

I had asked you,

Post #43 Where is this?

You responded (quoting my post) saying

Post #44 In your words

(Which are these words)

2 Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

I responded saying,

Post #45 No, those are not my own words, I quoted them but they are not mine.

And your response to me (which makes no sense at all) is

Post # 56 No, it just shows you how belief does not make someone a believer. In trhe Greek there are differing levels of belief. And the devils do not have saving belief.

Me (thinking, perhaps you are speaking of Jesus words?) asks you

Post# 57 Is that your answer to Jesus words?

But no direct response to me on this either, but again you say,

Post #58 I am truly sorry that you believe that Jesus may not have died and paid the penalty for all your sins.

To which I respond,

Post #60 Why resort to lies? Do you believe lying is sinful and that Jesus encourages you to do that?

You again do not directly respond with proof, but are now seeking it, and this time adding even more to what you formerly accused me of in Post #58 asking me again

Post #63 Do you believe that Jesus was punished for all your sins and so there is no sin you can commit that has not already been punished and paid for?

Again, never receiving an answer to my question concerning your accusation, but I respond again with the scriptures I believe that adress just this

In Post #64 1 Ti 1:15, Rom 5:8, Gal 1:4, Rom 6:16, Heb 10:26-27, Titus 2:14, Matt 7:23, 2 Ti 2:19

But you say,

#65 Still didn't answer my question with all these verses.

I respond,

#66 I did, I did so more completely than you have asked

And an aside note, that is exactly what 1 Ti 1:15, Rom 5:8 and Gal 1:4 addresses (And I will post just three of them below)

1 Ti 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Gal 1:4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father

And these are just a few biblical answers to the question "Do you believe that Jesus was punished for all your sins"...

But when it come to the second part of what you asked which is, "and so there is no sin you can commit that has not already been punished and paid for?"

I answer you with Heb 10:26-27 which speaks of wilfully sinning, which also includes the punishment in the very verse for such sins, as it speaks of his firey indignation toward the same.

Since you had asked if "there is no sin you can commit that has not already been punished and paid for?"

Hebrews tells us,

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

Heb 10:7 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Both the context of your question and the context of the verses posted are concerning sins and punishment. In this case what comes up behind WILLFUL SINS "a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. Which do not appear to be paid for, as far as a free
ticket to continue on in without consequences.

You ignore this and just repeat the question again as if I had overlooked it

Post #68 Nothing you have written touched on what I asked you. Here it is again:

**Repeats himself**

I respond again with the scriptures showing what I believe from beginning to end in two posts that follow

Post #69 I added 1Cr 15:3, Gal 1:4, Titus 2:14, Heb 10:26-27 again and in the end Matt 7:23 in light of 2 Ti 2:19
Post # 86 I added Ephes 5:3-6, 1 Cr 6:9-10 per Paul and 2Peter 2:20-22 per Peter.

Your response below is simply borrowing some of the wording in Hebrews 10:26-27 which I posted to twist back on me for whatever reason saying

Post #92 So you believe that if you willfully sin after you have been saved you have lost your salvation forever. I pity you.

Which is why I asked again concerning it, saying

Post # 93 You disagree with this? Quoting Heb 10:26-27 once more

To which you now respond

In Post #95 I agree 100% with this. (but had an issue with "context", when the context is actually "willfully sinning")

And you continue,

In Post #95 saying, "You hide behind a bunch of scriptures without giving me your answer."Have the last word.

An aside note: In your perspective, I would not be standing behind the LORD's words and offering His words as my answer, but rather, I am somehow just cowering behind a bunch of scriptures, refusing to give you an answer that is not from scripture, when that is exactly what we should be doing (Acts 17:2, Acts 17:11)

Continued on the following post...

 

[Muna]

Continued from the last post....

But let's go back to the verses I quoted again in Heb 10:26-27 in Post #93 and show your full response,

Post #95 I agree 100% with this.

but in its proper context and not like you and legions of others who believe that Jesus did not die for all
your skins so you can lose your salvation falsely believe what it says!

Me, an aside note: And so there it is again, telling me I do not believe Jesus Christ died for our sins, when I have most certainly provided multiple scripturesfrom the start of this back and forth which state just that.

You respond

Post #96 So you should not be here trying to tewch people. If you can only give Scri[ptures without expalining, you have no business coming up with proclamations
about the word! You are very shallow.

An aside note, it does say,

2 Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness

As I responded in

Post #99 The verses are self explanatory, they needn't any help from me.

You had responded to the mention of Heb 1:9 where it says of Jesus, "Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity" saying

Post #101 I agree Jesus hates sin. That is why He died and paid for ALL my sins.

Whereas I believe Titus 2:14 cites a far better why here

Post #102 Titus 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Which does show how our own inferior way of wording things don't do his marvelous works any justice oftentimes, which is why I prefer doing what 1 Peter 4:11 tells us

"If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified
through Jesus Christ..."

But you continue concerning Hebrews

Post #101 But you are taking Hebrews out of its context.

I replied by posting the entire context Heb 10:7-31 in Post #102 for you

And you continue

Post #101 The writer is not even speaking to believers as the letter fully shows.

Please see my response in Post# 104 which shows that in various places they are being adressed as believers who had faith in Jesus Christ

Here is one such example in the very center of the context you believe I have ignored

Post #102 Heb 10: 23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering

Which is why I ask

Post #102 You believe this is written to unbelievers?

And another aside note: I had also provided numerous others

You had continued on Hebrews

Post # 101 If they went back, they were facing the judgment of 70 AD as well as being llost

And there it is (Hebrews was speaking to believers) which is why I state the obvious of what you just said

Post #102 And so you really do believe that someone can depart from the faith and be lost.

But then you responded

Post #103 No if one is born again, they can never be lost. It is biblically impossible.

And so you do put a difference between being a temporary believer (or one who believes for just awhile, as Jesus calls the same which can fall away) as opposed to those who are born again in some way?

You could have possibly preached to some of them who (as they) professed Jesus Christ (as these did profess him in Heb 3:1, Heb 4:14, Heb 10:23) but who you believe "are not" believers ( or as those holding fast to the faith as it speaks of them) nor yet looking unto Jesus as the author and finisher of our in Heb 12:1 (as they were). And so your approach and my approach would be different, I would encourage them to make their calling and election sure, and giving all diligence (in a nutshell) whereas your approach I imagine would be similar to , "Dudes, your saved, chill out, there aint no sin Jesus aint got you covered for" (in a nutshell). It just seems to breed indifferent and/or lukewarm attitude. More of a neglectful attitude of so great a salvation. That's just how it comes off.

Now here you reply,

Post #103

Being saved is exponentially more than just having sins forgiven.

I am listening, which is why I asked,

Post #104 Can you provide scriptural examples of this because your former replies seem to indicate that is all you understand it to be.

Calling to rememberance where you simply stated in

Post #101 "I agree Jesus hates sin. That is why He died and paid for ALL my sins."

Whereas I not only posted that he died for the same according to scripture, but as far as His intentions towards us in His doing so in

Post #102 Titus 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

After posting Titus 2:14 your response is

Post #105 All your answers concerning Hebrews are man conclusions based on your predisposition that faith + works are required to keep us saved.

And again, even your very last to Titus 2:14 in Post #107 (which I am not even bothering with) you reply

Post # 107 is unbelief an iniquity??? Can you show a clear verse that says a child of God if they stop believing loses their child of God status, becomes un-born again, has eternal life revoked and perish and are plucke dout of Jesus' and the Fathers' hands?

And, we are at full circle, for what, the third time? And my last response should have been in Post #106

Post #106 "Which verses of saved by works here are you speaking of?"

Where I should not have expected an honest answer.

Because if you scroll back up and take a peek at the very top of my first reponse to you, this is basically the same question that goes unanswered from the beginning, in the middle and has gone unanswered in the end, its just being dishonest.

At this point I honestly do not care that you cannot provide for this, but I do feel the need to bring this unproductive back and forth to an end.

Which is perfect for this thread, as an demonstration of what can be understood as unfruitful.

So have the last word

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Continued from the last post....

But let's go back to the verses I quoted again in Heb 10:26-27 in Post #93 and show your full response,

Post #95 I agree 100% with this.

but in its proper context and not like you and legions of others who believe that Jesus did not die for all
your skins so you can lose your salvation falsely believe what it says!

Me, an aside note: And so there it is again, telling me I do not believe Jesus Christ died for our sins, when I have most certainly provided multiple scripturesfrom the start of this back and forth which state just that.

You respond

Post #96 So you should not be here trying to tewch people. If you can only give Scri[ptures without expalining, you have no business coming up with proclamations
about the word! You are very shallow.

An aside note, it does say,

2 Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness

As I responded in

Post #99 The verses are self explanatory, they needn't any help from me.

You had responded to the mention of Heb 1:9 where it says of Jesus, "Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity" saying

Post #101 I agree Jesus hates sin. That is why He died and paid for ALL my sins.

Whereas I believe Titus 2:14 cites a far better why here

Post #102 Titus 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Which does show how our own inferior way of wording things don't do his marvelous works any justice oftentimes, which is why I prefer doing what 1 Peter 4:11 tells us

"If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified
through Jesus Christ..."

But you continue concerning Hebrews

Post #101 But you are taking Hebrews out of its context.

I replied by posting the entire context Heb 10:7-31 in Post #102 for you

And you continue

Post #101 The writer is not even speaking to believers as the letter fully shows.

Please see my response in Post# 104 which shows that in various places they are being adressed as believers who had faith in Jesus Christ

Here is one such example in the very center of the context you believe I have ignored

Post #102 Heb 10: 23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering

Which is why I ask

Post #102 You believe this is written to unbelievers?

And another aside note: I had also provided numerous others

You had continued on Hebrews

Post # 101 If they went back, they were facing the judgment of 70 AD as well as being llost

And there it is (Hebrews was speaking to believers) which is why I state the obvious of what you just said

Post #102 And so you really do believe that someone can depart from the faith and be lost.

But then you responded

Post #103 No if one is born again, they can never be lost. It is biblically impossible.

And so you do put a difference between being a temporary believer (or one who believes for just awhile, as Jesus calls the same which can fall away) as opposed to those who are born again in some way?

You could have possibly preached to some of them who (as they) professed Jesus Christ (as these did profess him in Heb 3:1, Heb 4:14, Heb 10:23) but who you believe "are not" believers ( or as those holding fast to the faith as it speaks of them) nor yet looking unto Jesus as the author and finisher of our in Heb 12:1 (as they were). And so your approach and my approach would be different, I would encourage them to make their calling and election sure, and giving all diligence (in a nutshell) whereas your approach I imagine would be similar to , "Dudes, your saved, chill out, there aint no sin Jesus aint got you covered for" (in a nutshell). It just seems to breed indifferent and/or lukewarm attitude. More of a neglectful attitude of so great a salvation. That's just how it comes off.

Now here you reply,

Post #103

Being saved is exponentially more than just having sins forgiven.

I am listening, which is why I asked,

Post #104 Can you provide scriptural examples of this because your former replies seem to indicate that is all you understand it to be.

Calling to rememberance where you simply stated in

Post #101 "I agree Jesus hates sin. That is why He died and paid for ALL my sins."

Whereas I not only posted that he died for the same according to scripture, but as far as His intentions towards us in His doing so in

Post #102 Titus 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

After posting Titus 2:14 your response is

Post #105 All your answers concerning Hebrews are man conclusions based on your predisposition that faith + works are required to keep us saved.

And again, even your very last to Titus 2:14 in Post #107 (which I am not even bothering with) you reply

Post # 107 is unbelief an iniquity??? Can you show a clear verse that says a child of God if they stop believing loses their child of God status, becomes un-born again, has eternal life revoked and perish and are plucke dout of Jesus' and the Fathers' hands?

And, we are at full circle, for what, the third time? And my last response should have been in Post #106

Post #106 "Which verses of saved by works here are you speaking of?"

Where I should not have expected an honest answer.

Because if you scroll back up and take a peek at the very top of my first reponse to you, this is basically the same question that goes unanswered from the beginning, in the middle and has gone unanswered in the end, its just being dishonest.

At this point I honestly do not care that you cannot provide for this, but I do feel the need to bring this unproductive back and forth to an end.

Which is perfect for this thread, as an demonstration of what can be understood as unfruitful.

So have the last word

We shall tangle in another thread I am sure

 

[Jack]

A point that stood out to me from Sunday's sermon this week.

- Are you being pruned?
- What good fruit are you producing?
- Why are you being pruned?
- What does being pruned look like from a practical view?
- What gets pruned (cut away) and what is left?

John 15:1-2 NIV
“I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener.
2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit,
while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes[a]
so that it will be even more fruitful.

/

And those who attack the Christian Bible will burn forever and ever. Jesus said so.

 

[St. SteVen]

And those who attack the Christian Bible will burn forever and ever. Jesus said so.

Jesus said no such thing.

[

 

[Behold]

So you are now distinguishing between those who believe for awhile and fall away from someone who is truly born of God?

Perhaps you could post some verses of scripture that speaks of those who are said to be born of God?

If you read the parable regarding the sower and the seed and the ground.....then you find believers who had no root.

These are the "branches" that seem to be in the Vine but have no SAP....have no Holy Spirit in them.

This means they have a head knowledge of salvation....but there is no continuing into FAITH that God accepts to save them.
"Faith is accepted by God".... not works.
They believe for a little while but dont last, becasue they are not actually saved, they are just emotionally captivated.

God saves through faith......and the way this works is........the person ""comes to the knowledge of the Truth"".......and that is the Gospel being revealed that proclaims Salvation through Jesus, and the Holy Spirit enlightens them........and from that place of enlightenment, they place their faith in this Truth, or they hesitate and wait., and in some cases, they just reject it. (Rare).
Most people who are enlightened by the Holy Spirit and wait....are not rejecting Christ........they are considering the option.

An example..

A 18 yr old Girl.. Jennifer... who is very popular in High School.. She's Pretty, Smart, and is an Honor Roll Student and a Cheerleader.
She is in church again this Sunday... and she is enlighted by the Holy Spirit....and she Knows its TRUE.
She knew it the last 4 Sundays., and again this morning.
She knows she has sin, and that Jesus is her forgiveness, but then she thinks again......"if i do this now, i can't have any more fun".. "Im still very young, i just got a brand new boyfriend.... so, im not ready to give up my fun......I'll just wait till im older and then become a Christian". "I have plenty of time"..

And then She gets in her new Car, an early graduation gift from daddy ...... and backs out of the Church's Parking lot. And as she is pulling into the busy Main Street, she's looking at her I-phone and never saw the City Transit Bus that Hit her door and instantly kills her.
Now she wont be trusting in Christ "later", because She's in Hell, wishing she hadn't waited.

Dont wait Reader.
Hebrews 9:27, is on its way to you.
Trust in Christ today, and get your eternity solved so that you can know that you are going to Heaven.

 

[Jack]

Jesus said no such thing.

So you're admitting you ATTACK God's written Word the Bible?

 

[Jack]

Jesus said no such thing.

Yes He did!

Revelation 22:19
19 If anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

 

[St. SteVen]

Yes He did!

Revelation 22:19
19 If anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Not true.
The scroll of Revelation was a book unto itself.
You can't apply the claims of this verse to the whole Bible, because John didn't write the whole Bible.
The Bible was never a single scroll.

Revelation 22:19 NIV
And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy,
God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City,
which are described in this scroll.

And those who attack the Christian Bible will burn forever and ever. Jesus said so.

The verse says nothing about a "Christian Bible" or about anyone burning forever and ever.

[

 

[St. SteVen]

So you're admitting you ATTACK God's written Word the Bible?

What do you mean by "ATTACK"?
If I disagree with your claims about the book, I'm attacking your claims, not the book.

[

 

[Jack]

Not true.
The scroll of Revelation was a book unto itself.
You can't apply the claims of this verse to the whole Bible, because John didn't write the whole Bible.
The Bible was never a single scroll.

Revelation 22:19 NIV
And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy,
God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City,
which are described in this scroll.


The verse says nothing about a "Christian Bible" or about anyone burning forever and ever.

[

As usual you pick parts of the Bible that you like to believe!

 

[Jack]

The verse says nothing about a "Christian Bible" or about anyone burning forever and ever.

Should we believe you or Jesus?

Matthew 25:41
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

 

[Jack]

What do you mean by "ATTACK"?

What you do when someone quotes the Bible!

If I disagree with your claims about the book, I'm attacking your claims, not the book.

You will soon believe in Hell! Everybody will.

Matthew 13:49-50
49 So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come forth, separate the wicked from among the just,
50 and cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.