BEWARE OF THE SPIRITUALIZERS HERE

[Davy]

my cousin says he is descended directly from charlamagne, he is also a methhead and mentally challenged.

I wouldn't dare to say all members of the Masons and Rosicrucians fit that generalization. They are simply deceived by the devil and his children. And meth-heads are too, because if they ever sobered up and come to Christ, they would immediately understand the difference.

Jesus says things that are not found in the bible, but found in the DSS, but its not circumstantial evidence? am i understanding this correct? if so what exactly would be circumstantial evidence?

Today's secret initiate fraternities also claim Jesus said and taught things that He did not. So you suggest that Christians treat the Dead Sea Scrolls as if that is Bible Scripture?? That idea is ludicrous. There is NOWHERE written in God's Word where such an ascetic, monastic type of life is preached. Just because Scripture says John the Baptist lived in the desert does not mean he belonged to a monastery in the desert

 

[PS95]

Not among Christ's Church I do not agree with you. I agree with Apostle Paul...

1 Tim 5:20
20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.
KJV

Addressing sin with the sinner in private only is a trait of modern psychology, NOT God's Word. Remember what Jesus warned to those whom He loves...

Rev 3:19
19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
KJV

If one of His cannot take rebuke for a sin, then it suggests that person is NOT of God, but is rebellious, and defies correction. Look what God said about ole' king Saul who stopped heeding Him...

1 Sam 15:23
23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, He hath also rejected thee from being king.
KJV

And of course, the REBUKE happens while the sinner REFUSES to admit their sin and not repent, and make a change.

15“If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. 16“But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that BY THE MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES EVERY FACT MAY BE CONFIRMED. 17“If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. matt 18
I was thinking of that. I think it's the better way. Wouldn't you prefer that?

and this--
Brothers, if someone is caught in a trespass, you who are spiritual should restore him with a spirit of gentleness. But watch yourself, or you also may be tempted.

I believe that the verses you've given are the last resort- not the first.

Not just him, but all here that hold to man's false Once Saved Always Saved doctrines. Once someone has been told they can never fall away once they believe on Jesus no matter what they do, is actually a doctrine directly from the devil and his children. Sadly, many of Satan's workers have crept into quite a few churches today that don't stay with the actual written Bible Scripture. So their congregations rarely learn what the real Bible actually teaches as written.

I recall a witness by Jim Baker of the PTL club that served in prison for financial fraud. One of the main doctrines taught on PTL was the false Pre-trib Rapture theory. Baker, after he had been in prison for a while said it gave him time to really study The Bible, and that he discovered the Pre-trib Rapture theory is a false idea, not written in God's Word. He now preaches a Post-tribulational coming of Christ and gathering of the Church, which is actually what is written in God's Word. So imagine, all those years and into adulthood, he'd been lied to with that false Pre-trib Rapture theory from men, and never actually bothered to study God's written Word thoroughly enough to know that doctrine isn't Biblical.

Not all osas are the same. I know many who believe osas but still confess their sins and know that Christians are capable of sins..
Behold disagrees with them, and holds to teachings that are very extreme.

Baker the guy with the wife and the eye lashes? I have never bought into pretrib- The Spirit always made me uneasy when I heard it.

 

[PS95]

Jesus said "Brethren", not members.
Members are a part of FaceBook.
Christians on Christian Forums, are "Brethren".
But here is the issue.
Who isn't a "Brethren"? Who isn't born again.....on this Forum?
So, there are many, and they bring false theology, and personal opinions......and that causes STRIFE, which is seen and felt as hatred and anger and simillar.

This is a Forum, that allows anything and everything to park and preach.........just as long as the person claims to be a "christian".
So, that is why this forum is always out of control.

Maybe this will help- John 13:35
“By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”

I agree with you that many are not born again. I also blame the forum for allowing every brand of religion to tag as Christian.. That would cut it down quite a bit. Not totally, but it would make for a lot less strife and nonsense. I have brought it to their attention- they don't care.

 

[Davy]

15“If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. 16“But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that BY THE MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES EVERY FACT MAY BE CONFIRMED. 17“If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. matt 18
I was thinking of that. I think it's the better way. Wouldn't you prefer that?

and this--
Brothers, if someone is caught in a trespass, you who are spiritual should restore him with a spirit of gentleness. But watch yourself, or you also may be tempted.

I believe that the verses you've given are the last resort- not the first.


Not all osas are the same. I know many who believe osas but still confess their sins and know that Christians are capable of sins..
Behold disagrees with them, and holds to teachings that are very extreme.

Baker the guy with the wife and the eye lashes? I have never bought into pretrib- The Spirit always made me uneasy when I heard it.

Of course rebuke... is going to be WHILE the sinner REJECTS correction. I thought I already said that in my posts.

 

[PS95]

Of course rebuke... is going to be WHILE the sinner REJECTS correction. I thought I already said that in my posts.

If you did I missed it

 

[Davy]

Not all osas are the same. I know many who believe osas but still confess their sins and know that Christians are capable of sins..
Behold disagrees with them, and holds to teachings that are very extreme.

Baker the guy with the wife and the eye lashes? I have never bought into pretrib- The Spirit always made me uneasy when I heard it.

The very heart of the words 'Once Saved, Always Saved' suggests no need for repentance or forgiveness of future sins. So I cannot agree with any church that teaches it. The main churches that wrongly teach it are on man's false Hyper-Grace (or Hyper-Dispensationalist) doctrines, which includes the false Pre-trib Rapture theory.

Those seminary doctrines of men take the idea of God's Grace too far. We are not saved by our works, like Apostle Paul said, because Salvation is only by Faith on Jesus Christ, and something we can never earn. Yet that is still no excuse to NOT recognize our sins and repent and ask Him forgiveness.

Do we tell our small children that even though they may do a sin, we still love them and forgive them to make them think they never need ever repent or ask forgiveness of wrong they do after that? A righteous parent would never want their children to think that, but instead would expect their children to admit their wrong, and repent, and ask their parents to forgive them, and that each time it happens. And that is how True Christianity works, not the OSAS way.

 

[Davy]

If you did I missed it

Read my post#194 again.

 

[jaybird]

I wouldn't dare to say all members of the Masons and Rosicrucians fit that generalization. They are simply deceived by the devil and his children. And meth-heads are too, because if they ever sobered up and come to Christ, they would immediately understand the difference.

???

Today's secret initiate fraternities also claim Jesus said and taught things that He did not.

no i used passages from the bible that you ignored

So you suggest that Christians treat the Dead Sea Scrolls as if that is Bible Scripture??

umm no?

That idea is ludicrous. There is NOWHERE written in God's Word where such an ascetic, monastic type of life is preached. Just because Scripture says John the Baptist lived in the desert does not mean he belonged to a monastery in the desert

there is but you would only ignore it. its not mandatory but some choose . . .nevermind its not worth the effort to explain.

 

[PS95]

The very heart of the words 'Once Saved, Always Saved' suggests no need for repentance or forgiveness of future sins. So I cannot agree with any church that teaches it. The main churches that wrongly teach it are on man's false Hyper-Grace (or Hyper-Dispensationalist) doctrines, which includes the false Pre-trib Rapture theory.

Those seminary doctrines of men take the idea of God's Grace too far. We are not saved by our works, like Apostle Paul said, because Salvation is only by Faith on Jesus Christ, and something we can never earn. Yet that is still no excuse to NOT recognize our sins and repent and ask Him forgiveness.

Do we tell our small children that even though they may do a sin, we still love them and forgive them to make them think they never need ever repent or ask forgiveness of wrong they do after that? A righteous parent would never want their children to think that, but instead would expect their children to admit their wrong, and repent, and ask their parents to forgive them, and that each time it happens. And that is how True Christianity works, not the OSAS way.

I'm trying to make a distinction--
I have read on here many osas and have known in person many- say that they repent and or confess their sins. That's where Behold departs from them and calls those people out..

I confess and repent of my sins- and was accused by him that I was trying to keep my salvation by works therefore fallen from grace! lol

I also don't believe that someone who walks away from the faith and never returns and then dies- is saved. Behold does.
Some osas would say that person was never saved- others would say he is saved no matter what.

All I'm saying is osas-ers are not all the same.

 

[PS95]

Read my post 194 again

I see both which is confusing--

Davy-- Post 194 Addressing sin with the sinner in private only is a trait of modern psychology, NOT God's Word. Remember what Jesus warned to those whom He loves...

Jesus said to go in private first- not psychology
and also--

And of course, the REBUKE happens while the sinner REFUSES to admit their sin and not repent, and make a change

yes after you go in private.. make sense?

 

[Behold]

Maybe this will help- John 13:35
“By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”

Your verse is Jesus during His 3.5 yrs of ministry to the Jews.
So, at this time Jesus had not died on The Cross Yet, so, there were no CHRISTIANS yet.
This is why your verse is talking about "DISCIPLES".......and not CHRISTians.

Jesus explains that a DISCIPLE is "if you keep my words".... John 8:31
Whereas a Christian , is a SON-Daughter of GOD< who is BORN AGAIN.

A Disciple may not be a Christian.

John speaks about brothers/brethren.......who were """false""".....and said....>>"they went out from us, but they are not OF US">

In other words they are disciples and "jewish brothers".....to John,.......... but they are not Christians.
One of the Things about John, and James, and Peter, is that their ministry was to the JEWS.
So, it can be confusing to some readers of the NT, when these 3 talk about brethren, and brothers, and they are not taking about Christians in the verse.....they are speaking from the Jewish standpoint regarding other Jews.

On Forums like this one......you find a lot of cult members who believe they are Christians........because their cult has them believing it.
But when you pin them down and demand they explain how they became a Christian......all you get is "water baptism" and "commandment keeping" and "self effort".
They can't talk about The Cross of Christ where they were saved, because they've not been there yet.

A Christian is BORN AGAIN, and has the Spirit of God in them.
THat is how you know they are a True "Brethren".
Some are clever and will pretend even that.... but their Salvation Denies they are born again.

I agree with you that many are not born again. I also blame the forum for allowing every brand of religion to tag as Christian.. That would cut it down quite a bit. Not totally, but it would make for a lot less strife and nonsense. I have brought it to their attention- they don't care.

2 Things cause "christian" Forum strife to never end.

#1 is allowing non-Christians who pretend they are Christians, to "teach theology" all day and all night.

#2, is that there are certain topics that always cause fighting, so, if the forum will stop allowing these few Topics to become "Threads".. then that eliminates 95% of the stfife on a forum.
The issue is, the Mods like these topics and many members only come to Fourms to fight about these topics.

Eliminate these Topics from being posted as Threads, and a Chrisitan forum calms down 90%

1.) OSAS
2.) The Trinity
3.) Water Baptism
4.) Losing Salvation
5.) Pre-destination
6.) Replacement Theology
7.) Errors in the Bible.

 

[ScottA]

Scott- Christ's spirit lives in me. I also expect his actual return.

Why do you not "expect" that Jesus's coming (returning) to you in the glory of the Father is not "actual?"

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I don’t know what to say. It’s right there I black and white. I would suggest praying about it.

Yes, it's very clear in 1 Corinthians 15:42-54 that all believers will be changed to have incorruptible, immortal, spiritual bodies at the same time when the seventh trumpet sounds. Not one at a time when each person dies as you believe. I would suggest that you PRAY for understanding of 1 Corinthians 15:42-54 so you stop contradicting what Paul taught there.

 

[IndianaRob]

Yes, it's very clear in 1 Corinthians 15:42-54 that all believers will be changed to have incorruptible, immortal, spiritual bodies at the same time when the seventh trumpet sounds. Not one at a time when each person dies as you believe. I would suggest that you PRAY for understanding of 1 Corinthians 15:42-54 so you stop contradicting what Paul taught there.

Your body is not a believer, what’s trapped inside your body is the believer. Your body doesn’t need a new body. What’s inside your body needs a new body.

Exactly the point Paul makes with the seed analogy. Do you know how seeds work?

When the seed body dies, it rots in the ground forever.

When the seed body dies the life that was inside the seed body is given a new body. That new body has absolutely nothing to do with the old body.

It blows my mind that you can’t understand that.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Your body is not a believer, what’s trapped inside your body is the believer.

Strange comment. We are currently made up of body, soul and spirit. Paul indicated in Philippians 1:21-24 and 2 Corinthians 5:6-8 that when we die we depart from the body. So, what part of us departs from the body when we die? What's left? The soul and spirit. Very simple.

Your body doesn’t need a new body. What’s inside your body needs a new body.

What do you mean by that? Why did John say that he saw the souls of physically dead believers if they had bodies (Rev 6:9-11, Rev 20:4)?

Exactly the point Paul makes with the seed analogy. Do you know how seeds work?

When the seed body dies, it rots in the ground forever.

When the seed body dies the life that was inside the seed body is given a new body. That new body has absolutely nothing to do with the old body.

It blows my mind that you can’t understand that.

It blows my mind that you deny that Paul taught that our bodies will all be changed to be spiritual, incorruptible and immortal bodies at the same time, which will be when the seventh trumpet sounds (1 Corinthians 15:51-52). How do you reconcile your belief with that?

 

[IndianaRob]

Strange comment. We are currently made up of body, soul and spirit. Paul indicated in Philippians 1:21-24 and 2 Corinthians 5:6-8 that when we die we depart from the body. So, what part of us departs from the body when we die? What's left? The soul and spirit. Very simple.


What do you mean by that? Why did John say that he saw the souls of physically dead believers if they had bodies (Rev 6:9-11, Rev 20:4)?


It blows my mind that you deny that Paul taught that our bodies will all be changed to be spiritual, incorruptible and immortal bodies at the same time, which will be when the seventh trumpet sounds (1 Corinthians 15:51-52). How do you reconcile your belief with that?

Paul does not say our bodies will be changed, it says WE, the life inside the body will be changed.

Point out in these verses where Paul says the body gets a new body.

1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed
We - the person in the body. We are not our bodies, we are the life inside the body.

1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed
We - the person in the body. Will be changed, removed from the old body put in the new body.

This is not complicated. Paul gave us the simplest most accurate analogy you could possibly use to explain this.

Serious question, do you not understand how a seed contains life and that life is bound in the hard outer coating called the seed body?

Do you not understand that the old seed body has absolutely nothing to do with the new body that forms when the old seed body dies?

In the seed analogy do you see the old seed body being transformed into the new glorious body?

 

[PS95]

Why do you not "expect" that Jesus's coming (returning) to you in the glory of the Father is not "actual?"

ok so I don't know what you believe, Scott. It appears that maybe it's-- die and go to heaven.
That's not all there is to it, clearly. There is a new heavens and new earth-
There are more beliefs on this forum than I ever cared to know of.
Probably the worst thing I ever did was join here with all of the confusion and bickering.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Paul does not say our bodies will be changed, it says WE, the life inside the body will be changed.

Understanding context is not one of your strong suits. The context of 1 Corinthians 15:51-52 is established in the verses preceding it where Paul talks about the natural body that we have now that he says in 1 Corinthians 15:42-44 "is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption", "it is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory" and "it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power". So, that is the context of the change that Paul was talking about. He's talking about our bodies being changed from being natural, corruptible, dishonorable and weak to being spiritual, incorruptible, glorious and powerful.

Point out in these verses where Paul says the body gets a new body.

1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed
We - the person in the body. We are not our bodies, we are the life inside the body.

1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed
We - the person in the body. Will be changed, removed from the old body put in the new body.

This is not complicated. Paul gave us the simplest most accurate analogy you could possibly use to explain this.

Serious question, do you not understand how a seed contains life and that life is bound in the hard outer coating called the seed body?

Do you not understand that the old seed body has absolutely nothing to do with the new body that forms when the old seed body dies?

In the seed analogy do you see the old seed body being transformed into the new glorious body?

I don't need you to tell me I'm supposedly not understanding something when you are missing the obvious thing that Paul taught which is that our natural, corruptible bodies will be changed into spiritual, incorruptible bodies all at the same time when the last trumpet sounds. Your belief that each person has a spiritual body immediately upon death that they then have in heaven completely contradicts what Paul taught. It also contradicts John saying he saw the souls of dead believers in heaven. That would be a strange thing to say if they have bodies.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

ok so I don't know what you believe, Scott. It appears that maybe it's-- die and go to heaven.
That's not all there is to it, clearly. There is a new heavens and new earth-
There are more beliefs on this forum than I ever cared to know of.
Probably the worst thing I ever did was join here with all of the confusion and bickering.

He thinks that Jesus comes to each person after they die and brings them to heaven. He does not seem to believe in the blessed hope, the future glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ. So, he seems to be a full preterist or something similar.

 

[PS95]

He thinks that Jesus comes to each person after they die and brings them to heaven. He does not seem to believe in the blessed hope, the future glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ. So, he seems to be a full preterist or something similar.

Yes, i noticed. This place is swarming