Does Daniel 7:21–22 Support Amillennialism or Premillennialism?

[Earburner]

I Disagree with your claim

Daniel 7:13-14 represents the second coming of Jesus and him being before the Father in handing the kingdom over

Jesus Is The Lord

So then, the question for you is:
When did or shall Jesus become "The Lord"?
1. Immediately after His death and resurrection?
Or....
2. Only in the day of His Glorious return from heaven in Immortality.

Which answer above is applicable to Jesus' words in John 20
[17] Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

So then, the question for you is:
When did or shall Jesus become "The Lord"?
1. Immediately after His death and resurrection?
Or....
2. Only in the day of His Glorious return from heaven in Immortality.

Which answer above is applicable to Jesus' words in John 20
[17] Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Here's a hint for him to consider when answering your question.

Acts 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. 30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; 31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. 32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. 33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. 34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, 35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool. 36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

 

[Truth7t7]

The text in Daniel 7:13-14 describes "dominion, and glory, and a kingdom" being given to the Son of man, Jesus, after He was brought to the Father, just as described here in relation to His resurrection and ascension:

Daniel 7:14 & Revelation 11:15 are the same event of the second coming and eternal kingdom in parallel teachings

Daniel 7:14KJV
14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

Revelation 11:15KJV
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

 

[Truth7t7]

So then, the question for you is:
When did or shall Jesus become "The Lord"?
1. Immediately after His death and resurrection?
Or....
2. Only in the day of His Glorious return from heaven in Immortality.

Which answer above is applicable to Jesus' words in John 20
[17] Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

The context below is the "Future" second coming, final judgement, and eternal kingdom, simple, clear, easy to understand, if reformed theology hasn't blinded your eyes

Daniel 7:9-14KJV
9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.
12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.
13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

 

[Truth7t7]

WRONG. The Ezekiel 47 WHOLE CHAPTER is about the future "thousand years" reign by Jesus Christ and His elect over the nations, WITH A STANDING TEMPLE along with God's River of the Waters of life, and the Tree of Life.

Those waters of God's River on earth are even shown flowing OUT FROM THAT SANCTUARY per Ezekiel 47! So why would you LIE about that?

Revelation 21:22 is NHNE timing, because it says, "And I saw no temple therein:...". That means NO SANCTUARY for the future new heavens and a new earth timing.

Yet in Ezekiel 47, there's that SANCTUARY with God's River flowing out of it! Why? Because Ezekiel 47 is MILLENNIAL TIME OF CHRIST'S FUTURE 1,000 YEARS REIGN, a period that is to happen first. PRIOR to the new heavens and a new earth time.

Your Statement Above In Bold Red Is 100% "False"!

Ezekiel Below Is (The Eternal Kingdom) Same River And Tree Of life, Same Fruit On The Tree, Same Leaves Of The Tree For Healing/Medicine

(The Eternal Kingdom)

Ezekiel 47:12KJV
12 And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine.

(The Eternal Kingdom)

Revelation 22:1-2KJV
1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

 

[Davy]

Your Statement Above In Bold Red Is 100% "False"!

You're funny. Your mind is so... deceived on man's fake Amill theories that when you read anyone going against that Amill theory, you cannot think about anything else. You're like a bull in a bull ring that suddenly sees a red cape, and can think of nothing else but charging it.

Instead, you SHOULD HAVE FOCUSED on the fact of Ezekiel 47 revealing God's River of the Waters of Life flowing OUT FROM THAT MILLENNIAL SANCTUARY, when Revelation 21:22 reveals the difference of the NHNE time later when that sanctuary will no longer exist.

Ezek 47:12
12 And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine.
KJV

Rev 21:22
22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
KJV

Ezekiel 47 is Christ's future "thousand years" Millennial reign WITH THAT SANCTUARY IN JERUSALEM, on earth.

Revelation 21:22 is new heavens and new earth time, WHEN THERE WILL NO LONGER BE A TEMPLE (i.e, sanctuary) there, because The Father and The Son will be the Temple in God's Eternity.

 

[Truth7t7]

You're funny. Your mind is so... deceived on man's fake Amill theories that when you read anyone going against that Amill theory, you cannot think about anything else. You're like a bull in a bull ring that suddenly sees a red cape, and can think of nothing else but charging it.

Instead, you SHOULD HAVE FOCUSED on the fact of Ezekiel 47 revealing God's River of the Waters of Life flowing OUT FROM THAT MILLENNIAL SANCTUARY, when Revelation 21:22 reveals the difference of the NHNE time later when that sanctuary will no longer exist.

Ezek 47:12
12 And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine.
KJV

Rev 21:22
22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
KJV

Ezekiel 47 is Christ's future "thousand years" Millennial reign WITH THAT SANCTUARY IN JERUSALEM, on earth.

Revelation 21:22 is new heavens and new earth time, WHEN THERE WILL NO LONGER BE A TEMPLE (i.e, sanctuary) there, because The Father and The Son will be the Temple in God's Eternity.

You Think The Forum Is That Ignorant To "Not See" That The Two Scriptures Are Showing The Very Same River And Tree Of Life That Will Only Be In The Eternal Kingdom, Big Smiles!

Ezekiel Below Is (The Eternal Kingdom) Same River And Tree Of life, Same Fruit On The Tree, Same Leaves Of The Tree For Healing/Medicine

(The Eternal Kingdom)

Ezekiel 47:12KJV
12 And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine.

(The Eternal Kingdom)

Revelation 22:1-2KJV
1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

 

[Davy]

So, do you believe that animal sacrifices and offerings to make reconciliation or atonement of sins will be performed during the supposed future thousand years which would contradict the entire New Testament?

Didn't Lord Jesus Christ end those blood ordinances of animal sacrifice on His cross for one and all time, per Hebrews 9:26 and Hebrews 10:12?

If so (and He did), then for the New Covenant saints, how are we supposed to interpret that mention of animal sacrifices in those latter Ezekiel Chapters, since Ezekiel 40 through 47 are all about the time AFTER Christ's future 2nd coming?


Did you not know that the idea of 'sacrifices' to The Father and The Son STILL EXISTS today for the Christian?

Rom 12:1
12 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
KJV

Phil 4:18
18 But I have all, and abound: I am full, having received of Epaphroditus the things which were sent from you, an odour of a sweet smell, a sacrifice acceptable, wellpleasing to God.
KJV

Heb 13:15
15 By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to His name.
KJV

Since those Ezekiel 40 through 47 Chapters show events that have NEVER HAPPENED TO THIS DAY, and reveals many future prophetic events that only happen AFTER Christ's future return, but by mention of sacrifice that gives one the EXCUSE to just SCRAP all those Ezekiel Scriptures?? That is faulty thinking, and is where you show your mind is, in a state of fleshy carnal thinking. And with Ezekiel 47 revealing the River and Tree of Life of Revelation 21, even more so Ezekiel 47 is revealing the time after Christ's "thousand years" reign of Revelation 20.

 

[Davy]

You Think The Forum Is That Ignorant To "Not See" That The Two Scriptures Are Showing The Very Same River And Tree Of Life That Will Only Be In The Eternal Kingdom, Big Smiles!

Ezekiel Below Is (The Eternal Kingdom) Same River And Tree Of life, Same Fruit On The Tree, Same Leaves Of The Tree For Healing/Medicine

No, they aren't ignorant of those directly related Scriptures in both Ezekiel 47 and Revelation 21 about God's River and the Tree of Life. That is not YOUR PROBLEM you are having either.

YOUR problem is your not recognizing when that "sanctuary" of Ezekiel 47:12 exists per the Ezekiel 47 Scripture, and then when it NO LONGER EXISTS per the Revelation 21:22 Scripture. And this was my point I CLEARLY brought up to you, but you FAILED TO ADDRESS IT.

Now whether God has blinded your spiritual eyes so you cannot grasp that, or that you reject recognizing it on purpose because it conflicts with the doctrines of men you follow, that's a good question. My claim is that Biblical fact between those two Scriptures you reject because it reveals Ezekiel 47 is Millennial timing while Revelation 21:22 is LATER new heavens and new earth timing, and because you reject any... idea of Christ's future "thousand years" reign of Revelation 20 being a LITERAL reign, that's another reason you bypassed the topic I raised to you about the two different times when that "sanctuary" will exist on earth in Christ's future Kingdom, and then when it will be no more per Rev.21:22.

 

[Truth7t7]

No, they aren't ignorant of those directly related Scriptures in both Ezekiel 47 and Revelation 21 about God's River and the Tree of Life. That is not YOUR PROBLEM you are having either.

YOUR problem is your not recognizing when that "sanctuary" of Ezekiel 47:12 exists per the Ezekiel 47 Scripture, and then when it NO LONGER EXISTS per the Revelation 21:22 Scripture. And this was my point I CLEARLY brought up to you, but you FAILED TO ADDRESS IT.

Now whether God has blinded your spiritual eyes so you cannot grasp that, or that you reject recognizing it on purpose because it conflicts with the doctrines of men you follow, that's a good question. My claim is that Biblical fact between those two Scriptures you reject because it reveals Ezekiel 47 is Millennial timing while Revelation 21:22 is LATER new heavens and new earth timing, and because you reject any... idea of Christ's future "thousand years" reign of Revelation 20 being a LITERAL reign, that's another reason you bypassed the topic I raised to you about the two different times when that "sanctuary" will exist on earth in Christ's future Kingdom, and then when it will be no more per Rev.21:22.

You build your false argument around the single word "Sanctuary" and falsely use this in trying desperately to create two different places where the "Eternal" river and tree of life is present "100% False"

You aren't going to take the "Eternal" river and tree of life and put it in the midst of mortal humans on a earth that's decaying and human death is taking place in your fairy tale millennial kingdom on this earth that doesn't exist in scripture

Ezekiel 47:12 & Revelation 22:1-2 represents the "Eternal" river and tree of life that's only found in the "Eternal Kingdom" in the New Heaven And Earth

You can repeat the word "Sanctuary" a million more times and it dose'nt change this fact

Genesis 3:22KJV
22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

 

[Davy]

You build your false argument around the single word "Sanctuary" and falsely use this in trying desperately to create two different places where the "Eternal" river and tree of life is present "100% False"
....

That's OK, you've already made yourself accountable for REJECTING the EVIDENCE of those Ezekiel 47 and Revelation 21:22 Scriptures on the different times when Christ's future "sanctuary" will manifest on earth with the return of God's River and the Tree of Life, and then that sanctuary no longer existing later AFTER His "thousand years" reign. You've already MARKED yourself in your posts above.

 

[Truth7t7]

That's OK, you've already made yourself accountable for REJECTING the EVIDENCE of those Ezekiel 47 and Revelation 21:22 Scriptures on the different times when Christ's future "sanctuary" will manifest on earth with the return of God's River and the Tree of Life, and then that sanctuary no longer existing later AFTER His "thousand years" reign. You've already MARKED yourself in your posts above.

Yes we are accountable for what we hear and see, and it's a fact that a millennial kingdom on this earth, where mortal humans are dying physical death with Jesus ruling on a throne, where the eternal river and tree of life is present, this false teaching is a man made fabricated fairy tale found no place in scripture

Ezekiel 47:12 & Revelation 22:1-2 represents the eternal river and tree of life only found in the future "Eternal Kingdom" in the New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem

We have both clearly explained our positions, no need to run about the bush again, it's all yours

Jesus Is The Lord

 

[Davy]

Yes we are accountable for what we hear and see, and it's a fact that a millennial kingdom on this earth, where mortal humans are dying physical death with Jesus ruling on a throne, where the eternal river and tree of life is present, this false teaching is a man made fabricated fairy tale found no place in scripture

There you go again, OUTSIDE of God's written Word, and instead to men's false traditions only LOOSELY Bible based.

Ezekiel 47:12 & Revelation 22:1-2 represents the eternal river and tree of life only found in the future "Eternal Kingdom" in the New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem

Not what Ezekiel 47 is showing you, because in Rev.21:22 is actual NHNE timing and is WITHOUT a temple (sanctuary, same thing). But in Ezekiel 47 it IS showing a literal "sanctuary" established on earth from which God's River is flowing out from! It is impossible to confuse those two Scripture evidences. One can only believe it AS WRITTEN, or refuse to believe it AS WRITTEN. It is obvious that you have chosen to listen to MAN with their trying to CHANGE it as written.

And when the PREVIOUS Ezekiel Chapters before that 47th Chapter are covered, one discovers God's "house" being used to describe that "sanctuary", in detail as to its construction, and even of how those of God's people who erred will stand in judgment, and only the Zadok (The Just, representing Christ's elect priests) will be allowed to approach Him at His table. The Levites that erred when Israel fell away it says, will be given menial duties in that future sanctuary as a type of punishment, and will not be allowed to approach Christ in that time. So you've got all that covered in the previous Ezekiel 40 through 46 Chapters before you even get to the Ezekiel 47 Chapter about the return of God's River and the Tree of Life with that Millennial "sanctuary". And the duty of Christ's priests will be to teach the people the difference between the holy and profane, and the clean and the unclean, per Ezekiel 44.

 

[Truth7t7]

Not what Ezekiel 47 is showing you, because in Rev.21:22 is actual NHNE timing and is WITHOUT a temple (sanctuary, same thing). But in Ezekiel 47 it IS showing a literal "sanctuary"

Temple, Sanctuary, Tabernacle, "Same Thing"

Yes God's "Tabernacle" will be with men in the New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem

How long will you continue to fight against God's simple words of truth

Jesus Is The Lord

Revelation 21:3KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

 

[Timtofly]

Those in Judea are to flee to the mountains

It will be dreadful for pregnant women and nursing mothers

So when it does happen again, no one has to obey the Scriptures, because it already happened once?

 

[Earburner]

Here's a hint for him to consider when answering your question.

Acts 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. 30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; 31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. 32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. 33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. 34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, 35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool. 36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Amen! Thanks @Spiritual Israelite

 

[Timtofly]

Matthew 16:18 (NIV) And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.

What about this verse, is it half true and half false? Should we say from an unbelievers point of view the gates of hell will overcome the Church but from a believers point of view it won’t? Is that really how we should start looking at all the Bible?

You missed my point. Believers would be overcome physically, not spiritually.

Are you saying none of the martyred, were part of the church, as believers?

The gates of hell overcome many believers physically. They are called martyrs.

This is not a true or false interpretation, interpretation. What does half true half false even mean? The verse is talking about spiritual matters. Half and half has nothing to do with it, other than your attempt at an interpretation point. How people interpret Scripture could be split 100 different ways.

 

[Truth7t7]

Here's a hint for him to consider when answering your question.

Acts 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. 30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; 31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. 32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. 33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. 34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, 35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool. 36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

The Kingdom seen below is in the New Heaven and Earth, do "All People", nations, and languages presently serve Jesus Christ?

"100% Absolutely Not"

Your claim that Daniel 7:14 was fulfilled at the cross of Calvary and the resurrection is a man made fairy tale, the present world in the vast majority hate Jesus Christ and they don't serve him

The scripture below will be fulfilled in the "Future" eternal New Heaven and Earth

Jesus Is The Lord

Daniel 7:14KJV
14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

 

[Davy]

Temple, Sanctuary, Tabernacle, "Same Thing"

Yes, and so?

Yes God's "Tabernacle" will be with men in the New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem

How long will you continue to fight against God's simple words of truth

You are still evading what I showed you about the Ezekiel 47:12 "sanctuary" on earth where God's River will flow out from, vs. NO MORE "temple" in Revelation 21:22. You have not explained that difference, but you instead keep evading that subject.

So it definitely is NOT ME that is fighting against the simplicity of God's written Word.

 

[Truth7t7]

Yes, and so?



You are still evading what I showed you about the Ezekiel 47:12 "sanctuary" on earth where God's River will flow out from, vs. NO MORE "temple" in Revelation 21:22. You have not explained that difference, but you instead keep evading that subject.

So it definitely is NOT ME that is fighting against the simplicity of God's written Word.

God's tabernacle is "New Jerusalem" Revelation 21:22 is stating nothing more than no temple is found within God's tabernacle thats New Jerusalem, it's that simple and your trying desperately to build a false doctrine in support of your false millennial kingdom on this earth that doesn't exist in scripture

Ezekiel shows "The House" of God, and the river of life flowing from God's "House/Tabernacle" thats New Jerusalem

Ezekiel 47:12 & Revelation 22:1-2 is the very same river and tree of life in the eternal kingdom "New Jerusalem"

You can shout your claim of Revelation 21:22 and no temple all you want "Your Wrong"

There won't be a future temporary kingdom for 1,000 years on this earth where mortal humans are running around the river and tree of life, while Jesus sits on a throne with mortal humans dying around him, your teaching and belief is a man made fairy tale found no place in scripture

Jesus Is The Lord

The river of life that flows from God's throne in New Jerusalem

Ezekiel 47:1KJV
1 Afterward he brought me again unto the door of the house; and, behold, waters issued out from under the threshold of the house eastward: for the forefront of the house stood toward the east, and the waters came down from under from the right side of the house, at the south side of the altar.

Revelation 21:2-3KJV
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

The river of life that flows from God's throne in New Jerusalem

Revelation 22:1KJV
1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.