The Antichrist ... or just another false prophet

[ewq1938]

Mountains do not wear crowns. Kings do.

So do mountains in a symbolic way.

It is amazing that you think a mountain can be mortally wounded and be healed, and also wear a crown.

You need to look up what symbolism means.

Revelation 17:9 does not say anything about mountains wearing crowns.

Rev 17:9 does not say a lot of things. However, it does prove that heads are mountains and in Rev 12 heads do have crowns. Are you goingt o next say horns cannot wear crowns?

 

[Douggg]

Rev 17:9 does not say a lot of things. However, it does prove that heads are mountains and in Rev 12 heads do have crowns. Are you goingt o next say horns cannot wear crowns?

The horns are said to be kings in Revelation 17:12. Kings wear crowns.

Revelation 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

 

[Brakelite]

No, they aren't and this is a baseless and lazy, false accusation.

It's neither baseless, lazy, or false. It might be succinct, it might lack references, but it is certainly true. Futurism, and your's and others' continuing espousal of it, is absolutely the popular modern futurist understanding, keeping in mind the fact that just this thread reveals a bucket load of varying versions and strange personal detours and conclusions.
But they all have one thing in common. The fact that futurism (and preterism) were not taught prior to the 16th century. Not were they taught by protestants during the reformation. The prime hermeneutic taught through most of Christian history, from the early church fathers to this day, was and still is historicism. That is the continual unraveling of prophecy from the time it was given to the second coming. That's historicism. And unless otherwise indicated, most of apocalyptic prophecy is understood that way. Futurism, that has most prophecy still to be fulfilled some unknown distance into the future, and preterism, which has most of prophecy fulfilled in the distant past, were both created during add at the height of the Protestant reformation but 2 Jesuits, Fransisco Ribera, and Luis Alcazar. Up to that time, using historicism as the standard method of understanding prophecy, all Bible scholars had identified the papacy as the little horn of Daniel 7, the man of sin of 2 Thessalonians, the sea beast of Revelation 13, and the Mother of Harlots of Revelation 17. This was standard. When the Protestant reformation took off, and this truth became more widely published and known, the Catholic church drained members like a sieve. The Council of Trent was convened for the purpose of finding an urgent solution. That urgent solution didn't come until 16 years of meetings and debates. They had to prove that tradition was equally reliable as scripture to formulate doctrine. The protestants said Sola Scriptura. The protestants said no tradition. The council did find the answer they needed. I can explain what that is if you want. But the fruit of that came after the Jesuits were given the task of destroying the reformation... Hence Ribera and Alcaraz. And most of Protestantism has fallen for it and are teaching Catholic doctrine. So, at I said. Standard Jesuit futurist teachings... In nearly all the above posts.

 

[Davy]

First off, I have stated elsewhere on this forum that the second coming of Christ comes after the punishment of the judged kings of the earth and the heavenly hosts and will not occur until around a further 1,040 plus solar years have past.

NOT WRITTEN anywhere in God's Word. Many Biblically illiterate folks fail to realize that a prophetic group of events can happen very quickly, although when being described through writing, it takes more space to write them down. Such are the events that are to occur on the 7th Trumpet - 3rd Woe period on the "day of the Lord". MANY... events happen at the SAME TIME on that day, 'at the twinkling of an eye'.

But what does MENS' DOCTRINES DO? They try... to separate each event in its own time period, falsely EXPANDING... the timeframe of the last day of this world, with some stupid descriptions so far removed from the actual written Bible prophecy that it would take literal DAYS... for Christ's future return to happen!

 

[Davy]

Davy, this was your unscriptural and false claim that I had previously rebutted using scripture to justify when Satan would be judged in our near future. Revelation 20:1-3 was referencing the time of Satan's judgement along with the judgement of the Beast, the Little Horn and the Kings of the earth, as foretold in Isaiah 24:21-22.

Jesus also referenced the time Satan would be imprisoned in the Bottomless pit in the Parable of the Talents in Matthew and the Parable of the Minas in Luke but, sadly, both of these parables have been altered by well meaning "teachers" to be all about Christ. How sad.

YOU MADE THE FALSE CLAIM, NOT I.

You instead FALSELY claim the judgment of Satan HAS ALREADY HAPPENED BACK IN HISTORY, which is a LIE. And I know the DOCTRINE OF MEN you got that idea from, it's a doctrine from men's seminary false doctrine called FULL PRETERISM, which is a LIE.

 

[Jay Ross]

NOT WRITTEN anywhere in God's Word. Many Biblically illiterate folks fail to realize that a prophetic group of events can happen very quickly, although when being described through writing, it takes more space to write them down. Such are the events that are to occur on the 7th Trumpet - 3rd Woe period on the "day of the Lord". MANY... events happen at the SAME TIME on that day, 'at the twinkling of an eye'.

But what does MENS' DOCTRINES DO? They try... to separate each event in its own time period, falsely EXPANDING... the timeframe of the last day of this world, with some stupid descriptions so far removed from the actual written Bible prophecy that it would take literal DAYS... for Christ's future return to happen!

You are presenting a false argument that justifies your position with respect to the End Times. You are looking for words that justifies y our position. I on the other hand have use God's vivid word pictures to form my understanding of what God's Prophetic words and pictures tell us.

Your other false argument is to tell others what I did not write by claiming that I had posted something that I did not write or post.

Davy, your own words condemn you.

 

[Jay Ross]

YOU MADE THE FALSE CLAIM, NOT I.

You instead FALSELY claim the judgment of Satan HAS ALREADY HAPPENED BACK IN HISTORY, which is a LIE. And I know the DOCTRINE OF MEN you got that idea from, it's a doctrine from men's seminary false doctrine called FULL PRETERISM, which is a LIE.

Davy, if you have read my posts, you would know that I have not presented any doctrine that is based on the understanding that all prophecy was completed during and around the time of Christ.

I have consistently stated/said that the Judgement of the Kings of the Earth and the Heavenly hosts is still a near future event that will take place in around 20 years' time at the end of this present time. I have also indicated that Satan's final punishment is in our distant future and will not occur until after the Great and terrible Tribulation which will kick off after Satan and the other prisoners in the Bottomless Pit are released.

You are again using a false argument which you know in untrue.

However, I agree with your statement that Full Preterist theology is a lie.

 

[ewq1938]

The horns are said to be kings in Revelation 17:12. Kings wear crowns.

We are discussing what the heads are not the horns. You have heads and horns as kings which is nonsensical and inconsistent. The heads are one thing, and the horns are another. Neither represent what the other is. Heads are mountains where kingdoms exist and horns are the kings/kingdoms within those mountains.

 

[Douggg]

We are discussing what the heads are not the horns. You have heads and horns as kings which is nonsensical and inconsistent. The heads are one thing, and the horns are another. Neither represent what the other is. Heads are mountains where kingdoms exist and horns are the kings/kingdoms within those mountains.

You are the one who brought up the horns in your post #161.

The text does not say that the mountains are where kingdoms exist. The text says the seven heads represent 7 mountains on which the woman sits.

Revelation 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

Mountains do not have crowns. Kings do.

 

[Jay Ross]

Heads are mountains where kingdoms exist and horns are the kings/kingdoms within those mountains.

And "Mountain(s)" is used as a metaphor for a religion(s).

The Little Horn is associated with the fourth Beast of Daniel 7:1-12 and speaks great words against God.

 

[Davy]

You are presenting a false argument that justifies your position with respect to the End Times. You are looking for words that justifies y our position. I on the other hand have use God's vivid word pictures to form my understanding of what God's Prophetic words and pictures tell us.

Your other false argument is to tell others what I did not write by claiming that I had posted something that I did not write or post.

Davy, your own words condemn you.

BRETHREN IN CHRIST:
Events of the end happen very quickly on the day of Christ's future coming. For example, Apostle Paul in 1 Corinthians 15 revealed a 'mystery' about those of us still alive on earth on the day of Christ's future coming being 'changed' "at the twinkling of an eye" (some of you guys didn't know that's where I got that twinkling of an eye idea from in my previous post). Paul said that is to occur on the "last trump". What's that?

The "last trump" is the final one, the 7th Trumpet. That also happens to be when Lord Jesus returns on that day per Revelation 11, the final 3rd Woe being attached with it. And it is called the "day of the Lord" by God's Old Testament prophets, and by Apostles Paul and Peter.

Let's look at all the events that will happen on that final 'day' of this present world when Jesus returns per Revelation 11. And the events shown in Rev.11 are by no means the complete list of events that are to happen on that "day of the Lord"...

Rev 11:15-19
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of His Christ; and He shall reign for ever and ever."

Immediately on that "day of the Lord" when Jesus returns, ALL the kingdoms (i.e., nations) of this world become those belonging to The Father and His Son Jesus Christ, and He will reign forever. That means all His enemies that seek to fight Him on that day of His coming will already be over, those nations not even having a chance. All still alive on earth will be 'changed' at that moment on the 7th Trumpet to their "spiritual body", which is the type body of the world to come, even for the unsaved, for they too will manifest in their spirit body, but their souls will still be in a 'liable to die' state.

18 And the nations were angry, and Thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that Thou shouldest give reward unto Thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear Thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

The unsaved nations when they see Jesus coming in the clouds, they won't like it, they will fear, because the time of His wrath will have come at that moment when they see Him. Also, at that SAME time, the dead will be resurrected per John 5:28-29, all the dead coming out of their graves either to the "resurrection of life", or unto the "resurrection of damnation". These events will happen very... quickly on that "last trump".

19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in His temple the ark of His testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.
KJV

There will be a great earthquake in Jerusalem on that day when Jesus' feet touch down upon the Mount of Olives at His return, bringing all His saints with Him there, as written in the Zechariah 14 Chapter. That is what the "great earthquake" of Rev.11:13 in that same hour is about when seven thousand of men are slain.

All that happens on the "day of the Lord" which is the day of Jesus' future return. Those in Christ still alive on earth DO NOT HAVE TO FLEE ANYWHERE on that day of Christ's coming, because those still alive will be "caught up" to Jesus on that "last trump" on His DESCENT to the Mount of Olives east of Jerusalem. We will be changed to our spiritual body immediately at the twinkling of an eye on that "last trump" when Jesus appears.

There will be no destruction event on earth that will harm us. God's consuming fire is going to burn man's works off the surface of this earth on that SAME day of Christ's coming (2 Peter 3:10). It will not harm us, even as Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nigo were examples of that future event, their coming out of the hot furnace heated seven times hotter than necessary and their clothes didn't even smell of smoke.

 

[Bladerunner]

During the thousand year millennium, there will be persons who will be born and die. Some of them will become believers in Christ and the gospel of salvation. And although they may die during the millennium, they will be resurrected and receive their eternal life bodies at the Great White Throne judgment.

not really, those who are chosen to live in the millennium (except the Remnant of Israel) will have 100 years to decide if they want Jesus Christ as their savior. If they do not chose Him, they are thrown into the Lake of fire and Brimstone immediately. No second chances ever. Those who are born among the Gentiles will also have 100 years to decide. They too will be thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone in they chose wrong. And those at the end of the millennium, those who follow Satan after he is released from the bottomless pit will be destroyed by Fir fro God own, mouth and thrown into the lake of fire and Brimstone. either way there is only one judgement after this age.

 

[Davy]

And "Mountain(s)" is used as a metaphor for a religion(s).

No, the "mountains" of Revelation represent kingdoms, like ewq1938 said.

 

[Davy]

The "seven heads" as "mountains" as kingdoms, is not that difficult to figure out. All one need do is REMEMBER what they read from God's Word, and put 2 + 2 together.

Rev 17:9
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
KJV

Didn't anyone look up that CLUE there about the symbolic "woman" sitting on those "seven heads" or "seven mountains"? Where were we first shown about that?

Rev 17:1
17 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, "Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:
KJV

How did Lord Jesus define those "many waters" there in Rev.17?

Rev 17:15
15 And he saith unto me, "The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues."
KJV

The Scripture defines the 'seven heads' as a symbol for "seven mountains" which is about the "many waters" the Babylon Harlot sits over, which the "waters" represent "peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues".

That means kingdoms folks, and in seven parts (continents) of the whole earth!

Did you know "seven heads" also existed back when Lucifer first rebelled against God in the old world? Revelation 12:3-4 reveals Satan used a previous beast kingdom that had only "seven crowns" back when he drew a third of the angels ("stars") into rebellion with him against GOD.

 

[ewq1938]

And "Mountain(s)" is used as a metaphor for a religion(s).

Not in Rev where it says the heads are mountains and in Greek the word means land rising from the ground. It's land where ten kingdoms reside. Babylon symbolizes the people in the false religion worshipping the AC.

 

[ewq1938]

You are the one who brought up the horns in your post #161.

I didn't bring up a new horn topic did I? No.

The text does not say that the mountains are where kingdoms exist.

Yes it does.

The text says the seven heads represent 7 mountains on which the woman sits.

And the horns are kings that have kingdoms so those kingdoms are within those 7 mountains. Not complicated.

Revelation 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

Mountains do not have crowns. Kings do.

Mountains have crowns in Rev 12.

 

[Jay Ross]

No, the "mountains" of Revelation represent kingdoms, like ewq1938 said.

Time will tell who is right and is starting to understand God's prophetic words.

 

[Jay Ross]

Not in Rev where it says the heads are mountains and in Greek the word means land rising from the ground. It's land where ten kingdoms reside. Babylon symbolizes the people in the false religion worshipping the AC.

Rev 17:3-5: - 3 So he carried me away in the Spirit into the wilderness. And I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast which was full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. 4 The woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls, having in her hand a golden cup full of abominations and the filthiness of her fornication. 5 And on her forehead a name was written:​

​

MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.​

NKJV​

Now the beast in Rev 17:3, which rises up out of the Bottomless pit to go to spiritual loss and ruin, are all the four beasts of Daniel 7:1-12 which is confirmed with the statement that this beast has seven heads from the four beasts now acting as one beast after it rises up out of the Bottomless Pit. Also in Daniel 7:7-8

Daniel 7:7-8: - 7 "After this I saw in the night visions, and behold, a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, exceedingly strong. It had huge iron teeth; it was devouring, breaking in pieces, and trampling the residue with its feet. It was different from all the beasts that were before it, and it had ten horns. 8 I was considering the horns, and there was another horn, a little one, coming up among them, before whom three of the first horns were plucked out by the roots. And there, in this horn, were eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking pompous words.​

NKJV​

Now in Daniel 7 the ten horns represent ten world religions where the ten horns will have dominion over these other world religions which are different to the religion that was the primary religion in the nation of Israel.

When we argue that the beasts are people groups, kingdoms, nations and empires that hold dominion within the sea of humanity, then we have not understood what the true entity type of the four beasts are. It is my view that the beasts are the four fallen winds of heaven, i.e. fallen angels who are in cahoots with Satan.

The Little Horn/False Prophet is also a fallen angel.

 

[TribulationSigns]

The horns are said to be kings in Revelation 17:12. Kings wear crowns.

Yes. But do you understand what the horn signifies in Scripture? The kings? And crowns?

Revelation 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

The one hour of the rule "FOR" the ten kings "is" the time of the wicked. It is the days of the wicked, or the days of their rule. It will be the time for the Gentiles (unsaved) to rule in God's congregation where the truth cannot be found:

Amos 8:11

• "Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD:"

Those days of a lack of hearing God's word are the days of the wicked, Selah. Nothing to do with European nations, ten men, or the kingdom of "beast-king." It is the hour of God's judgment upon His unfaithful church (AKA Babylon the Great) where the false prophets and christs rules.

You need to understand that it is all about strong delusion prophesied within the CHURCH. It manifests itself in many sinful man otherwise known as the man of siin that "rules" in the church as a slave or bondservant of Satan because he rules through those men! As opposed to the man of God who was commissioned to rule righteously by God's word. That's why he is called the man of sin or lawlessness. It is because he's taken over the role of leader of the church and he is ruled by the spirit of antichrist, the spirit that works in the children of disobedience.

Revelation 17:12

• "And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast."

These kings did not rule the church because the Two Witnesses (Elect) rule the church preaching the Gospel truth. UNTIL all Elect are secured and Satan comes out of the bottomless bit, these ten kings then rule with Satan for a short season (Daniel7:8; Revelation 6:11; 17:10; 20:3) which is symbolically one hour. Those people who have NOT yet sealed by God after God finished sealed His people, will refuse to receive the love of truth and God is judging them for it!

It is for this very reason Satan is loosed from his prison after all Israel is saved!! Their delusion is spiritual insanity, the madness of fools who want to be called by Christ's name, and yet do their own will instead of God's. In which case, they will eat their own bread and wear their own apparel. No word nor robe of Christ, for they have a name they live but are dead!

Therefore, because of them, their church is already spiritually dead. And we, the Elect of God, as the eagles standing afar off, lift up our voices to prophesy judgment against her. For we “see” the abomination of desolation now standing with her midst! This is no small matter—it is the very sign that the judgment of the Lord has fallen upon His unfaithful house. For a little while, she shall be given over to desolation and shame, until the day when Christ Himself appears to render His final judgment. Let all who have ears to hear understand: God will not be mocked.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Now in Daniel 7 the ten horns represent ten world religions where the ten horns will have dominion over these other world religions which are different to the religion that was the primary religion in the nation of Israel.​

No, the ten horns has nothing to do with worldly religions. The horn in Scripture signifying power. The kings symbolizing their reign (not men) which they will have near the end. Horns consistently symbolize power. And the word little means, well little. For example, a little season or one hour. That means their fullness of power will last for a little while. Since the spirit Satan is "given" power "AS" Kings (to reign) for a little when "he is loosed of God," he uses that time to gather the nations (not geopolitical nations, but unsaved - eg. Gentiles) against the Saints all over the world. This is near the end and supported by Revelation chapter 20.