Rapture ... soon?

[soberxp]

Guy above repents he said anything about how the rapture would happen on 23 or 24
He said he heard from God, and saw many signs.
Don't look for signs, or omens, don't interpret them. God has forbidden that, interpreting omens.

But many people chose to believe him, And no one wants to believe what I say #612

.Sad times.

 

[HealthyShape]

I understand that on one hand, I'm reporting events in the world and then on the other, trying to piece the puzzle together according prophetic scriptures. And ... ?
How else are we supposed to discern the signs that Jesus gave us? Scholars from each view build their cases as the Amils build theirs ... so? You don't have to build any case ... you can do what you want. I have given you enough time, I think we're done.

Again, I was reacting to your "I am just reporting". No, you are not just reporting, admit it and that is enough. Then build whatever eschatological case you want, it will fail again and again, until you realize something is wrong with your view, fundamentally.

 

[soberxp]

What scripture are you talking about?

13:4 Charity(love) suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,

13:5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;

13:6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;

13:7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

 

[Grailhunter]

13:4 Charity(love) suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,

13:5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;

13:6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;

13:7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

And your point?

 

[PinSeeker]

I have no idea why you are getting the points and replies so mixed together that you come out with such misunderstanding. I consciously try to keep my posts simple and clear.

This conversation has been very... disjointed.

So again:
The book of Revelation was written prior 70 AD IMO, probably in 68 or 69 AD. The events in it happened "soon" as the book prophesied. In 70 AD. In this way, everything makes sense.

Four statements:

• I disagree that Revelation was written prior to 70 A.D... and say again that it was written close to the end of the century, which is the general consensus, and by a wide margin.
• I do in fact agree that what happened between 66 and 70 A.D. was very, very Biblically significant, and at least to a very significant degree regarding the "soon" mentioned by John himself in Revelation 1:1. But... <smile> ...'soon' is a bit different to God than to you and me; everything is 'soon' to God, even right now. <smile>
• You may or may not understand what I'm saying with this, but John's Revelation is what we call a layered prophecy... to put it very succinctly, except for certain things (like Jesus's return, of course) there are many, many fulfillments throughout the church age, not just one.
• And I agree that everything makes sense. <smile>

Luke and Mark were not apostles, for example.

Right, writers of the two of the four gospels (and Acts), as I said.

I provided a lot of verses to you

You did. <smile>

read them.

I did. <smile> And surely not for the first time. <smile> I'll just say this in response to one of the verses you noted: I'm absolutely sure that there were folks in that very day that saw the kingdom of God coming in power, and quite often... and I do, too. <smile> One day, Jesus will return, and usher it in in its fullness. <smile>

Sorry for all the smiles; just... I got a lot of little chuckles in this post... <smile>

Grace and peace to you.

 

[soberxp]

And your point?

Since God could create Adam and Eve, couldn't He create companions for those who do not marry and dedicate themselves to the gospel?

Yet whether they are willing or not is something beyond my understanding.

 

[PinSeeker]

Now for the matters you wrote about: “It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman.” But since sexual immorality is occurring, each man should have sexual relations with his own wife, and each woman with her own husband. 1st Corinthians 7:1-2

Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I do. But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion. 1st Corinthians 7:8-9

But I want you to be free from concern. One who is unmarried is concerned about the things of the Lord, how he may please the Lord; but one who is married is concerned about the things of the world, how he may please his wife, and his interests are divided. The woman who is unmarried, and the virgin, is concerned about the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and spirit; but one who is married is concerned about the things of the world, how she may please her husband. This I say for your own benefit; not to put a restraint upon you, but to promote what is appropriate and to secure undistracted devotion to the Lord. 1st Corinthians 7:32-35

Thank you. <smile> Grace and peace to you.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Yall never get off this earth except through death....

Im telling ya.


But wait Jesus said anyone who believes in him will never die!

Not true every person on this planet has died since the apostles did.

So there must be some other form of addressing those words rather than literal. Oh that is right Jesus spoke Spirit and Life.... so.

....not biblical.
We see multiple people in the bible raptured to heaven without death.
...the church billions being in that precise dynamic.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Please read again exactly what JESUS said

Depends on if you think normal life, and commerce, and everyday life, and planning for the future, is anything but what it says.

What???
You think pretending it is not in the bible, is your basis for your doctrine????

Yep...you just basically admitted you can not defend the truth spoken by Jesus.

Maybe read it R E A L S L OW;

37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

Hamas must cooperate and within 72 hours, release all the hostages.

Yeah, fat chance of that ever happening.

The evil will be unbearable for those who are not part of it.

Wow so the power of the Holy Spirit is powerless against evil?.... what a crock!

That's definitely doctrines of demons designed to trick Christians in to laying down and giving up allowing the devil to walk all over them.

That's not how Jesus lived during His time here on earth.... the devil tried every way he possibly could to hurt Jesus and it was like water off a ducks back as Jesus kept Himself min the Love of God and that wicked one was unable to touch Him

John 14:30
the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

1 John 5:18
he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

 

[HealthyShape]

Right, writers of the two of the four gospels (and Acts), as I said.

You said: "I hope you're speaking of the apostles, here, because no one else wrote anything in the New Testament".
Your claim is not true, Luke and Mark were not apostles.

It seems to me you do not remember what you say. And that is what makes the conversation confusing.

I'm absolutely sure that there were folks in that very day that saw the kingdom of God coming in power, and quite often... and I do, too.

So, the sentence of Jesus had no real meaning, it is a common, even often event, which you see, too.

Yeah... this is a twisting of Scriptures, which is quite common today. People want to defend their view more than the Scriptures.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

i have no accusations against you!!!

JESUS Says: "Immediately after the tribulation of those days....I Come to gather My Elect"

pre-trib rapture opposes the words of Christ and therefore pre-trib is of/from the spirit of error/anti-christ

No they do not. If you keep verses in their proper context you would know it is speaking of the saved of the tribulation. The trib is the wrath of God. And Paul in thess. says we will be delivered from the wrath to come- that is why there is a pre trib rapture.

Still waiting for your biblical evidence that I am belieiving and promoting lies.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Believe JESUS at His word(s)???

1st Event that must occur before His Return = Matthew 24:1-2 = this "must happen" has been fulfilled

2nd Event(s) that must occur before His Return= Matt 24:4-8 = continually being fulfilled and will continue right up to JESUS Return

3rd Event(s) that must occur before His Return = Matt 24:9-12 = continuing

4th Event(s) that must occur before His Return = Matt 24:13-14 = continuing

5th Event(s) that must occur before His Return = Matt 24:15-22

6th Event(s) that must occur before His Return = Matt 24:26 = continuing

7th Event(s) that must occur before His Return = Matt 24:29 = VERY NEAR FUTURE = in progress NOW

JESUS Says these things MUST occur before His Return

I agree with all of these as events which must occur before His physical return to earth and many others as well.

But the rapture of the church is not the return of Jesus to earth, it is His descending either to space or a layer of the atmosphere to take the church off the earth. this is a completely different event from His physical return and has vastly different results.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Unfortunately, this post ended up way too lengthy. Sorry about that. One can either read all of it or not read all of it, or even not read any of it. That's up to them. That aside.

1 Thessalonians 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

It is all about perspective. A lot of interpreters agree that the 42 month reign of the beast precedes the 2nd coming. Therefore, those worshiping it are going to be feeling a sense of peace and safety since the beast would not be hunting them down, persecuting them, nor killing some of them, if they are worshiping it instead. Not to mention, they will be buying and selling freely with no restrictions being put upon them.

OTOH, the saints won't equally be saying peace and safety if the wrath of the beast is upon them. Once again then, it's all about perspective. Though it will be involving great tribulation, it won't be involving great tribulation upon those worshiping the beast the same way it will be involving great tribulation upon those not worshiping the beast. IOW, great tribulation doesn't affect everyone in the same manner, the same way God's wrath after great tribulation does not affect everyone in the same manner. The saved, God's wrath will have zero affect on them. The lost, God's wrath will have full affect on them.



Let me show something here using Genesis 6-7 and Matthew 24 to do so. Before I do so, obviously, 1 Thessalonians 5:3 isn't meaning Noah's flood nor am I acting like it is. Yet that is beside the point.

Two things are happening in verse 3 above, though. First they are saying peace and safety, we'll call that A). Then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape, we'll call that B).


Genesis 6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose

In Matthew 24:38 Jesus indicated that Genesis 6:2 meant this at the time---For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage

Genesis 7:16 And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the LORD shut him in.
17 And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up above the earth.
18 And the waters prevailed, and were increased greatly upon the earth; and the ark went upon the face of the waters.

Equally in Matthew 24:38-39 Jesus indicated verses 16-18 above equaled this at the time---until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away


Let's think outside of the box here for a moment, keeping in mind what I initially said regarding 1 Thessalonians 5:3, that we will call this part, A), and we will call this part, B).

With that in mind, which one, A) or B), fits Genesis 6:2? Which one, A) or B), Genesis 7:16-18? Unless someone has major reasoning issues, no one is going to conclude that A) fits Genesis 7:16-18. Nor is anyone going to conclude that B) fits Genesis 6:2. Therefore, we need to apply this same reasoning to Matthew 24:38-39.

Matthew 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,(this equals A))
And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away(this equals B)); so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

There is no sudden destruction occurring during any of this prior to the coming of the Son of man--they are eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage. There is no one still saying peace and safety during any of this---until the flood came, and took them all away--where this is involving the coming of the Son of man.

My entire point is this. There can't be sudden destruction unless a sense of peace and safety precedes it, unless one wants to argue that Paul lied to us in 1 Thessalonians 5:3. And that no one is going to argue and be taken seriously, that this in Matthew 24:38-39--And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away---does not equal this in 1 Thessalonians 5:3---then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

Therefore, this in Matthew 24:38--eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark--has to mean this in 1 Thessalonians 5:3--when they shall say, Peace and safety--since it can't mean this in 1 Thessalonians 5:3---then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

I am not sure if we agree.

Jesus made a few points.
1) before the flood time-frame.
2) God's people gathered into the ark.
3) one taken, one left ( 50 % of a certain group)
4) watch and be ready before the flood.

Now...he made sure that in the preflood timeframe, there was normal life, everyday life.

I do not need any of the components tampered with

Maybe we agree.

 

[rebuilder 454]

No they do not. If you keep verses in their proper context you would know it is speaking of the saved of the tribulation. The trib is the wrath of God. And Paul in thess. says we will be delivered from the wrath to come- that is why there is a pre trib rapture.

Still waiting for your biblical evidence that I am belieiving and promoting lies.

Jesus himself declared the rapture pretrib.

It is so easy to understand.

I honestly think postribs see themselves running from cave to cave, trying to escape the Antichrist who is chasing after them with a sword to chop their heads off since they are so powerful and so awesome christians he somehow can't see them.

It CLEARLY SAYS ALL REFUSING THE MARK DIE.
CLEARLY.

How can anyone imagine a devil man coming, Which kicks off the tribulation, with a crown and a bow ( bow points to 7 yr covenant), and he makes life BETTER FOR CHRISTIANS AND JEWS ????????.

Postibs believe that??? ?

 

[HealthyShape]

The trib is the wrath of God. And Paul in thess. says we will be delivered from the wrath to come- that is why there is a pre trib rapture.

This is an interesting verse. Can you demonstrate that the wrath in 1 Thes 5 means the Great Tribulation in Jerusalem and Judea Jesus was talking about?

Because Thessalonians were not in Judea...

 

[MatthewG]

Oh Paul still alive on earth then? Where John? @rebuilder 454

There is a spiritual explination to what Jesus is saying.

All he ever did was talk speak spirit and life....

Lol. People telling me Im wrong and stuff. Good. Keep that in your head.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

This is an interesting verse. Can you demonstrate that the wrath in 1 Thes 5 means the Great Tribulation in Jerusalem and Judea Jesus was talking about?

Because Thessalonians were not in Judea...

The wrath of God aka the tribulation or 70th week of Daniel is a global event. It centers on Jerusalem, for its greatest purpose is to prepare the nation Of Israel to receive Her Messiah.

Ezekiel 20:33-38

King James Version

​

33 As I live, saith the Lord God, surely with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out, will I rule over you:
34 And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out.
35 And I will bring you into the wilderness of the people, and there will I plead with you face to face.
36 Like as I pleaded with your fathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt, so will I plead with you, saith the Lord God.
37 And I will cause you to pass under the rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the covenant:
38 And I will purge out from among you the rebels, and them that transgress against me: I will bring them forth out of the country where they sojourn, and they shall not enter into the land of Israel: and ye shall know that I am the Lord.

Jeremiah 31:33-37

King James Version

​

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
35 Thus saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The Lord of hosts is his name:
36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
37 Thus saith the Lord; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the Lord.

And A study of Scripture shows that Gods wrath is directed only at two things.

1. Sin in General
2. The tribulation is called the wrath of God in numerous passages.
3. The Lake of Fire is never called wrath- but is called the final judgment of unbelievers. That is why we know from Scripture the rapture of teh church happens sometime before Israel signs the 7 year covenant with the Antichrist starting th etribulation oor the 70th week of Daniel, which afterwards Jesus physically returns to earth to establish the Millennial kingdom promised to Israel.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Jesus himself declared the rapture pretrib.

It is so easy to understand.

I honestly think postribs see themselves running from cave to cave, trying to escape the Antichrist who is chasing after them with a sword to chop their heads off since they are so powerful and so awesome christians he somehow can't see them.

It CLEARLY SAYS ALL REFUSING THE MARK DIE.
CLEARLY.

How can anyone imagine a devil man coming, Which kicks off the tribulation, with a crown and a bow ( bow points to 7 yr covenant), and he makes life BETTER FOR CHRISTIANS AND JEWS ????????.

Postibs believe that??? ?

Well I can't speak to all teh various things post tribbers believe in.

But the Antichrist is the rider and teh stephanos crown and bow point to him conquering. I am convinced this is the time when he overthrows three of the ten world rulers and the other seven give their allegiance to him.

 

[shepherdsword]

Did you have poor grades in math? The Sept. 23rd + 14 days comes to Oct. 7
So a couple mor days after that and I will call it. Things are stiring up with this new Peace Treaty, it simply is another piece of the puzzle. Sometimes we think we recognize a piece, try to fit it in and it just doesn't fit, so we discard it and look for another. The big picture is forming ... lots of pieces.

He didn't make the prediction on Sept 23rd. He made the prediction 3 weeks ago when the video said it would happen in 14 days. You can see by the age of the comments on the You tube video(you keep posting the google location so people can't see the comments)
This video was posted to you tube over 3 weeks ago. He says "in 14 days"