Rapture ... soon?

[TribulationSigns]

So,

So, you weren't listening or playing dumb game or something?

• Is Satan a supernatural being?

I answered it in my earlier posts.

• Is he an evil angel?

I answered it in my earlier posts.

• Is he an entity separate from man?

I answered it in my earlier posts.

• Or, is he just an influence?

I explained it in my earlier posts .

• Or, is Satan abstract "conscience" or the innate "evil spirit" of unregenerate man?

I explained it many time in my earlier posts.

• Are demons spirits? Are they invisible? Are they heavenly agents? Are they human spirits?

I explained it many times in my earlier posts.

I have already explained my position many times here, and you know exactly where I stand. Else, you wouldn’t keep pestering RWB with questions about whether he agrees with me unless you already knew my position! (chuckle!)

Stop playing this childish game—pretending ignorance won’t hide your real intent. Enough of the foolishness!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Indeed!

Since the same word you mentioned is an angel is the Greek [angelos], and simply meant, means, and will mean “messenger,” this is an easy task. For example, consider that John the Baptist is called an [angelos] sent by God in Matthew 11:10.

Matthew 11:10-11

• "For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.
• Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he."

If it hadn't been so "obviously" clear this was John the Baptist, the translators would have most assuredly changed this word to an angel as well. Because they decided based upon what they felt was a supernatural being, and "NOT" by translating the word accurately. However, the [angelos] of God sent to go before Christ is not a created begin that they called, "angel" of God sent to go before man any more than [angelos] the message in Revelation 1:20 was sent to! Why would John need to correct and instruct an angel? It's not an literal angel but the messengers of God's church that needed correcting and instructing. The passage I gave you of John the Baptist is the same [angelos] or messenger of God--a man. They asked for one place, I gave them one place, but I'm sure it will be insufficient to prove to them [angelos] does not mean angel, but messenger. Nevertheless, Biblical facts are facts, not personal opinions. Even if the messenger of God "was" in fact an angel, the actual word would still not "mean" angel. Selah.

Jude 6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

2 Peter 2:4 For if God didn’t spare the angels who sinned but threw them down into Tartarus and delivered them to be kept in chains of darkness until judgment;

Who do you think are the angels (Greek: angelos) that these verses are referring to? What was "the first estate" that they didn't keep and what was "their own habitation" that they left?

 

[WPM]

So, you weren't listening or playing dumb game or something?



I answered it in my earlier posts.


I answered it in my earlier posts.


I answered it in my earlier posts.


I explained it in my earlier posts .



I explained it many time in my earlier posts.


I explained it many times in my earlier posts.

I have already explained my position many times here, and you know exactly where I stand. Else, you wouldn’t keep pestering RWB with questions about whether he agrees with me unless you already knew my position! (chuckle!)

Stop playing this childish game—pretending ignorance won’t hide your real intent. Enough of the foolishness!

I'm not sure! I have never heard this view. Please clarify if SI is accurate? I am not sure why you would get so uncomfortable apart from knowing your view is unbiblical.

Do you believe that demons or demonic spirits are real?

No, I do not.

Do you believe they are fallen angels?

I do not believe in the existence of angels at all.

Do you believe that the angels who fell with Satan at the beginning are demons who possess certain wicked who leave themselves open to demonic control?

I do not believe in the existence of angels at all. The references to angels in Scripture are to human messengers.

Do you believe in the existence of an evil, supernatural spirit being named Satan?

No, I do not.

Do you accept that evil spirits/demons are evil angels that exist like Satan does?

No, I do not.

Or, is Satan abstract "conscience" or the innate "evil spirit" of unregenerate man?

The term Satan represents the spirit of man which is naturally evil.

 

[rwb]

Exactly. You are acting like a Pretribber now because you cannot explain your position.

Well Paul, I could say the same thing about you. You have no problem acknowledging how Old Covenant prophecy must be spiritually discerned to disprove dispensationalism, but you seem to lack any spiritual understanding whatsoever when it comes to prophecy of Satan and angels.

 

[WPM]

Well Paul, I could say the same thing about you. You have no problem acknowledging how Old Covenant prophecy must be spiritually discerned to disprove dispensationalism, but you seem to lack any spiritual understanding whatsoever when it comes to prophecy of Satan and angels.

You are getting childish now. Please address my enquiries.

 

[rwb]

The Bible distinguishes between angels and men. They are different. They are distinct. Angels are heavenly beings that are sent on assignment from God to serve His purposes, and protect His servants. They operate in the invisible realm.

I have no disagreement with this.

In heaven, God's elect are distinguished from the angels:

Again, I agree.

Are humans coming to gather us at the second coming?

This is an argument I have never made. I have NEVER said I believe human beings are angels.

Are humans coming to gather us at the second coming?

Ephesians 6:12 tells us what we do not fight against, then tells us what we do fight against.

• It tells us: “we wrestle not against flesh and blood.” This is talking about humans.
• It then tells us that we wrestle “against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.”

If you find yourself focused on a human or human beings you are already missing the target. We are not fighting a natural physical holy war today against humans like they did in the Old Testament. We are exclusively fighting a spiritual war in the heavenlies. We are not fighting with carnal power or human ingenuity. We are not fighting politicians and governments.

This is a disingenuous, and even lame argument. Are you incapable of basing your arguments on things I have actually argued?

 

[rwb]

You already admitted what we are promoting is "the traditional understanding, handed down through the ages."

You guys have invented some doctrine (that obviously TW taught you) that you cannot defend. You have been left holding the baby.

Yes, an unbiblical doctrine taught not through the Word of God but from the mind of man that has been perpetuated down the years, through the seasons, much like the doctrine of dispensationalism. You've yet to prove I have not biblically defended the doctrine I have learned from the Word of God. It's like calling someone a Calvinist because they embrace the doctrines of Sovereign grace, without mentioning the doctrines of grace are in complete harmony with the Word of God. But labeling one a Calvinist is a way of maligning one's character. So, you hope to malign the character of TS and myself by saying our doctrine comes from the mind of TW. There is something very strange about the reaction from both you and SI. I suspect it has something to do with how you two view the five points of Calvinism.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Ephesians 6:12: “For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities [Gr. archē or chief or principal rulers], against powers [Gr. exousia or authorities], against the rulers of the darkness of this world [Gr. kosmokratōr ho skotos toutou aiōn or rulers of the obscurity of this age], against spiritual wickedness in high places [Gr. pneumatikos ponēria en epouranios or vile or malevolent spirts on high].”

• Principalities [Gr. archē or chief or principal rulers] – those who hold the highest and loftiest position of rank and authority. They oversee the demonic assaults.
• Powers [Gr. exousia or authorities] – those who are under Satan’s delegated authority
• The rulers of the darkness of this world [Gr. kosmokratōr ho skotos toutou aiōn or rulers of the obscurity of this age]. Kosmokratōr is the joining of 2 Greek words kosmos and kratos. The word kosmos denotes order or arrangement, whereas the word kratos has to do with raw power.
• Spiritual wickedness in high places [Gr. pneumatikos ponēria en epouranios or vile or malevolent spirts on high].

So, who exactly are these if they are not human?

The are the human messengers with spirit of Satan whom they serve. They serve to their own spirit of disobedience. Their spirits are their authority, power, and principalities (instead of Christ) where we all once were before we were born again. But some messengers who wore the armor of God before us, come to us and preached the Gospel, that helped us set free from the principalities and spiritual wickedness. This is the whole point why Paul wrote:

Colossians 2:14-15

• "Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
• And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it."

Matt 26:52-53

52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.
53 Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?

Who were these angels? Where were they located?

Ahhh.. What do you think? Have you already forgot what the number twelve spiritually signifies in Scripture? Let me give you a biblical lesson to understand what Christ is talking about in Matthew 26:52-53:

The number twelve is another prime example of spiritual significance. In other words, God uses this number to show us some spiritual truth in it's application. Would we be prudent Bible students in thinking that it has no meaning besides a count, and it's mere coincidence the places which it is found? No, we would be negligent to think so. In my studies I have found that the number twelve spiritually points to the Congregation of God.

A good example would be the twelve brothers, the twelve sons of Jacob who were the progenitors of the twelve tribes of Israel. This was the Old Testament congregation, or Children of God. The number twelve spiritually signified this! These twelve sons were not a coincidental number of births, they were God ordained! Likewise, the significance is passed on after the cross as the twelve apostles became the New Testament representative of the congregation or Children of God. The exact same spiritual number attached to God's congregation on both sides of the cross. We can see this brought forth Gloriously as in Revelation 21, the Bride of Christ, the New Jerusalem (Thee Church) comes down from Heaven.

Revelation 21:12

• "And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the Twelve Tribes of the Children of Israel:"

Revelation 21:14

• "And the wall of the City had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the Twelve Apostles of the lamb."

The twelve gates signify the entrance to the City. And note that the Old Testament congregation is represented as well as the New. The names of the twelve tribes of Israel at the gate, and the names of the twelve Apostles in the foundations. Why would anyone make the assumption that this number twelve is not spiritually significant, or that it's just some coincidence that there were twelve tribes, twelve Apostles, twelve gates, the City measuring twelve thousand furlongs, having twelve precious stones, etc. No, it is obviously not coincidence! And if it's not coincidence, then the number twelve has special meaning there. God "specifically" made sure there were twelve sons, and twelve Apostles, twelve gates, twelve fragments of food left over, etc. That means He did it for a reason. And the reason is to show us some spiritual consistency in where He is using it. To say that the number twelve has no special significance, is to not fully understand that God's inspired Word, is not just words, they're numbers also!

When we look at the miracle that Jesus did for the damsel who was twelve years old in raising her from the dead, we see it was a signification that the Church would be raised from the dead. This is why it is meticulously pointed out that the woman was twelve. There is no other reason for God pointing out her age except this spiritual signification.

Mark 5:42

• "And straightway the damsel arose and walked; for she was of the age of twelve years. and they were astonished with a great astonishment."

Likewise, the Church (The woman 12) would be raised from the dead by Christ. This miracle signified this arising from the dead, and the woman is 12 not by coincidence, but to indicate this. As the 12 stars of the woman in Revelation Chapter 12 are also pointing to the Congregation of the Lord.

Things that might appear coincidental to the average or carnal reader are brought out spiritually by God to His people. They are not understood by natural man, they are spiritually discerned.

Now, to you question above, here is another example is when the wicked men came to take Jesus away, and His Apostles were going to fight for Him, and Jesus told them to put away their swords, read carefully:

Matthew 26:53-54

• "Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to My father, and He shall presently give Me more than twelve Legions of Angels?
• But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be?"

You see, He equates His army who would do battle with Him as twelve legions. Coincidence? Not when you understand that the Church "IS" the Army of the Lord, which have on the whole armour of God and the Breastplate of righteousness, and carry the Sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God. For example, His father has presently given him twelve legions of Messengers, and WE, as his messengers (angels) do fight with Him. Not in a literal war with literal swords, but in a spiritual warfare with the Word of God as our sword!! And this is how it must be as it's all a matter of discerning the things which God has placed in His Holy Word!

And here is the extra, if you want to know more... how about the woman who had suffered many things of Physicians, and none could heal her. God meticulously points out that it was for twelve years..

Mark 5:25

• "And a certain Woman which had an issue of blood twelve years.."

This woman touched but the hem of Jesus garment, and was made whole. For example, what was unclean for 12 years was now clean. The garment of Christ is signifying the Righteousness of Christ. Just as scripture says we are clothed in the Righteousness of Christ! This Woman had been made righteous, by the virtue of Christ!

Mark 5:30

• "And Jesus, immediately knowing in Himself that virtue had gone out of Him, turned Him about in the press and said, who touched My Clothes."

You see, this is signifying that we are made whole by Christ's virtue, by Christ's righteousness, and by Christ's garment. And the fact that this woman had this plague twelve years and "none" could heal her, signifies our predicament before we receive the virtue or the righteousness of Christ. But when we receive the virtue of Christ, we are made whole by his garment. For example, we are Clothed in the righteousness of Christ! So we understand the number twelve is used all throughout scripture in many different ways to signify the Church! So Christ was talking about His church of "many" (legions) messengers that God gave to him to do His will.

Selah!

@rwb

 

[WPM]

I have no disagreement with this.


Again, I agree.


This is an argument I have never made. I have NEVER said I believe human beings are angels.


This is a disingenuous, and even lame argument. Are you incapable of basing your arguments on things I have actually argued?

I am not trying to be difficult, but, I am genuinely confused by what you are arguing. You accept that the Bible distinguishes between angels and men. They are different. They are distinct. Angels are heavenly beings that are sent on assignment from God to serve His purposes, and protect His servants. They operate in the invisible realm.

Ok. So:

1. What is Satan's purpose?
2. What are angels.
3. What is their purpose?
4. What is the difference between evil angels and elect angels in regard to their character, makeup and influence?

 

[TribulationSigns]

Mat 28:2 And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it.
Mat 28:3 His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow:
Mat 28:4 And for fear of him the keepers did shake, and became as dead men.
Mat 28:5 And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified.
Mat 28:6 He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay.

Who was this angel? Where was it from? Was is a visible being?

The angel of the Lord is Jesus Christ appearing in glorified resurrected body. His countenance "like lightning" and "raiment white as snow" match Christ's resurrection glory (compare with Revelation 1:14-16).

Rev 1:14-16
(14) His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;
(15) And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.
(16) And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.

 

[rwb]

So, what would you prefer me to use to describe that which denies that Satan and demons are real entities - goofy?

Again, if it's goofy, why have you not made a biblical case against it?

 

[Randy Kluth]

No, I follow the holy spirit and love correction, it means I know I then get the 100% correct answer.

Not at all. Many Christians follow the Spirit and accept correction. But they still make mistakes. We are *not* guaranteed to always be right simply because we state that we follow the Spirit and accept correction.

You see, you somehow get that the AC must show up before the Rapture.

Yes, that is exactly what I get because that's exactly how I read it.

I can prove 100% that is not what the above says.

I see--not 99.9% sure? That informs me that you are *not* correctable! Even when we're right we should maintain an attitude of humility, recognizing that we do make mistakes.

It says the Departure of the Church OR from the Faith as you suppose it is, AND the Man of Sin must show up BEFORE the Wrath of God.

Yes, that's exactly how I read it. The Coming of Christ and the assembling of the Church, prior to the appearing of the Man of Sin.

2 Thess. 2:1 Now we beseech(ask Urgently) you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, (So, via the Rapture or Gathering together unto Christ, Paul tells the Thessalonians that he asks them very urgently to.......SEE VS. 2..........

So, you're saying that verse 1 cannot stand alone, that it must somehow be amended by reading verse 2? That would be backwards and a form of editting, in my opinion.

Not fear in any manner whatsoever, that the Day of the Lord/God's Wrath is AT HAND.......Don't do it !! Do not fear and why? Verse 1b told us, via the Gathering unto Christ Jesus)

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come(What day? The 1260 DOTL or Wrath of God at the 1260), except there come a falling away(Departure of the Church UNTO Christ) first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

What if I could offer you a different meaning of this thing that Christians were warned against? What if they were not being warned about the Tribulation to come, the Reign of Anticrist, and God's Wrath against the Antichrist? What if Paul was warning the Christians about the deception that Antichristianity brings to Christians, making them follow some local cult pretending to be Messianic?

I do not see how anyone, even a babe in Christ could get this wrong, maybe that is why you gave the quick quip reply.

If I gave a "quip reply" it would likely only be out of despair that the person I speak to is not truly humble and open to correction. You see, I've been arguing this since the mid-70s. I actually love to talk about it, though with those who are actually open and who are able otherwise to "agree to disagree." That is the true Christian spirit, in my opinion. It is a sign of maturity or just plain honesty.

So way you go yourself all twisted up up brother, on this timing.

Oh yes, let me be "twisted up."

 

[TribulationSigns]

I'm not sure! I have never heard this view. Please clarify if SI is accurate? I am not sure why you would get so uncomfortable apart from knowing your view is unbiblical.

Do you believe that demons or demonic spirits are real?

No, I do not.

Do you believe they are fallen angels?

I do not believe in the existence of angels at all.

Do you believe that the angels who fell with Satan at the beginning are demons who possess certain wicked who leave themselves open to demonic control?

I do not believe in the existence of angels at all. The references to angels in Scripture are to human messengers.

Do you believe in the existence of an evil, supernatural spirit being named Satan?

No, I do not.

Do you accept that evil spirits/demons are evil angels that exist like Satan does?

No, I do not.

Or, is Satan abstract "conscience" or the innate "evil spirit" of unregenerate man?

The term Satan represents the spirit of man which is naturally evil.

Mine, where have I heard this before? Because it is biblically correct. :-)

 

[WPM]

The are the human messengers with spirit of Satan whom they serve. They serve to their own spirit of disobedience. Their spirits are their authority, power, and principalities (instead of Christ) where we all once were before we were born again. But some messengers who wore the armor of God before us, come to us and preached the Gospel, that helped us set free from the principalities and spiritual wickedness. This is the whole point why Paul wrote:

Colossians 2:14-15

• "Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
• And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it."

Ahhh.. What do you think? Have you already forgot what the number twelve spiritually signifies in Scripture? Let me give you a biblical lesson to understand what Christ is talking about in Matthew 26:52-53:

The number twelve is another prime example of spiritual significance. In other words, God uses this number to show us some spiritual truth in it's application. Would we be prudent Bible students in thinking that it has no meaning besides a count, and it's mere coincidence the places which it is found? No, we would be negligent to think so. In my studies I have found that the number twelve spiritually points to the Congregation of God.

A good example would be the twelve brothers, the twelve sons of Jacob who were the progenitors of the twelve tribes of Israel. This was the Old Testament congregation, or Children of God. The number twelve spiritually signified this! These twelve sons were not a coincidental number of births, they were God ordained! Likewise, the significance is passed on after the cross as the twelve apostles became the New Testament representative of the congregation or Children of God. The exact same spiritual number attached to God's congregation on both sides of the cross. We can see this brought forth Gloriously as in Revelation 21, the Bride of Christ, the New Jerusalem (Thee Church) comes down from Heaven.

Revelation 21:12

• "And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the Twelve Tribes of the Children of Israel:"

Revelation 21:14

• "And the wall of the City had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the Twelve Apostles of the lamb."

The twelve gates signify the entrance to the City. And note that the Old Testament congregation is represented as well as the New. The names of the twelve tribes of Israel at the gate, and the names of the twelve Apostles in the foundations. Why would anyone make the assumption that this number twelve is not spiritually significant, or that it's just some coincidence that there were twelve tribes, twelve Apostles, twelve gates, the City measuring twelve thousand furlongs, having twelve precious stones, etc. No, it is obviously not coincidence! And if it's not coincidence, then the number twelve has special meaning there. God "specifically" made sure there were twelve sons, and twelve Apostles, twelve gates, twelve fragments of food left over, etc. That means He did it for a reason. And the reason is to show us some spiritual consistency in where He is using it. To say that the number twelve has no special significance, is to not fully understand that God's inspired Word, is not just words, they're numbers also!

When we look at the miracle that Jesus did for the damsel who was twelve years old in raising her from the dead, we see it was a signification that the Church would be raised from the dead. This is why it is meticulously pointed out that the woman was twelve. There is no other reason for God pointing out her age except this spiritual signification.

Mark 5:42

• "And straightway the damsel arose and walked; for she was of the age of twelve years. and they were astonished with a great astonishment."

Likewise, the Church (The woman 12) would be raised from the dead by Christ. This miracle signified this arising from the dead, and the woman is 12 not by coincidence, but to indicate this. As the 12 stars of the woman in Revelation Chapter 12 are also pointing to the Congregation of the Lord.

Things that might appear coincidental to the average or carnal reader are brought out spiritually by God to His people. They are not understood by natural man, they are spiritually discerned.

Now, to you question above, here is another example is when the wicked men came to take Jesus away, and His Apostles were going to fight for Him, and Jesus told them to put away their swords, read carefully:

Matthew 26:53-54

• "Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to My father, and He shall presently give Me more than twelve Legions of Angels?
• But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be?"

You see, He equates His army who would do battle with Him as twelve legions. Coincidence? Not when you understand that the Church "IS" the Army of the Lord, which have on the whole armour of God and the Breastplate of righteousness, and carry the Sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God. For example, His father has presently given him twelve legions of Messengers, and WE, as his messengers (angels) do fight with Him. Not in a literal war with literal swords, but in a spiritual warfare with the Word of God as our sword!! And this is how it must be as it's all a matter of discerning the things which God has placed in His Holy Word!

And here is the extra, if you want to know more... how about the woman who had suffered many things of Physicians, and none could heal her. God meticulously points out that it was for twelve years..

Mark 5:25

• "And a certain Woman which had an issue of blood twelve years.."

This woman touched but the hem of Jesus garment, and was made whole. For example, what was unclean for 12 years was now clean. The garment of Christ is signifying the Righteousness of Christ. Just as scripture says we are clothed in the Righteousness of Christ! This Woman had been made righteous, by the virtue of Christ!

Mark 5:30

• "And Jesus, immediately knowing in Himself that virtue had gone out of Him, turned Him about in the press and said, who touched My Clothes."

You see, this is signifying that we are made whole by Christ's virtue, by Christ's righteousness, and by Christ's garment. And the fact that this woman had this plague twelve years and "none" could heal her, signifies our predicament before we receive the virtue or the righteousness of Christ. But when we receive the virtue of Christ, we are made whole by his garment. For example, we are Clothed in the righteousness of Christ! So we understand the number twelve is used all throughout scripture in many different ways to signify the Church! So Christ was talking about His church of "many" (legions) messengers that God gave to him to do His will.

Selah!

So, these are external demonic entities that enter all the wicked to deceive them. Every unsaved person is demon possessed then?

 

[TribulationSigns]

Jude 6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

2 Peter 2:4 For if God didn’t spare the angels who sinned but threw them down into Tartarus and delivered them to be kept in chains of darkness until judgment;

Who do you think are the angels (Greek: angelos) that these verses are referring to? What was "the first estate" that they didn't keep and what was "their own habitation" that they left?

You do not know what is the first estate? What were their habitation? Do you believe that they are literally the angels and their first estate was heaven where God is? You are mistaken! :-)

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I have no disagreement with this.

Which means you disagree with TribulationSigns on this, yet you seemingly keep agreeing with everything he says about this topic. That's baffling to me. I'm wondering if you are actually understanding what he says. You know he does not believe in such thing as an evil spirit being called the devil or Satan, right? And that he denies the existence of supernatural spirit beings called angels and demons? But, it seems you disagree with him about that? If so, why are you constantly liking his posts where he expresses those beliefs?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You do not know what is the first estate? What were their habitation? Do you believe that they are literally the angels and their first estate was heaven where God is? You are mistaken! :-)

This is an extremely lame response. I asked you two questions and you are asking me questions in response instead of answering them? Does this mean you have no answers to my questions? Are you just playing games here, hoping you can avoid having to answer those questions?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I'm not sure! I have never heard this view. Please clarify if SI is accurate? I am not sure why you would get so uncomfortable apart from knowing your view is unbiblical.

Do you believe that demons or demonic spirits are real?

No, I do not.

Do you believe they are fallen angels?

I do not believe in the existence of angels at all.

Do you believe that the angels who fell with Satan at the beginning are demons who possess certain wicked who leave themselves open to demonic control?

I do not believe in the existence of angels at all. The references to angels in Scripture are to human messengers.

Do you believe in the existence of an evil, supernatural spirit being named Satan?

No, I do not.

Do you accept that evil spirits/demons are evil angels that exist like Satan does?

No, I do not.

Or, is Satan abstract "conscience" or the innate "evil spirit" of unregenerate man?

The term Satan represents the spirit of man which is naturally evil.

Look how he is not even willing to take a few seconds to confirm that the answers I gave accurately reflect what he believes. What is he afraid of here?

 

[TribulationSigns]

Jude 6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

2 Peter 2:4 For if God didn’t spare the angels who sinned but threw them down into Tartarus and delivered them to be kept in chains of darkness until judgment;

Who do you think are the angels (Greek: angelos) that these verses are referring to? What was "the first estate" that they didn't keep and what was "their own habitation" that they left?

Glad to explain it later tonight. I am going to prepare myself a dinner. :-)

 

[TribulationSigns]

This is an extremely lame response. I asked you two questions and you are asking me questions in response instead of answering them? Does this mean you have no answers to my questions? Are you just playing games here, hoping you can avoid having to answer those questions?

Hold your horses, dude. Per previous post I have dinner to prepare and will response promptly. Chill.