Predestination VS Free Will

[soberxp]

No...it is sin dwelling ON them that makes them wicked. Sin dwelling IN them makes them weak. But a humble man can avoid presumptuous sins...and be justified by God even with sin still IN them.

Free will means we can say NO to a false covering that adds sin to sin.

So Who gives a man humility?

 

[Episkopos]

So Who gives a man humility?

You mean what gives men a proper sense of reality? Well, not religious systems or the dogmas that come out of those. They create ideological illusions.

Simplicity...a turning FROM pride. A brush with something much greater than oneself...whether human or divine.

 

[Behold]

The verse literally says "those he predestined... he also justified". You stated that justification is not a part of predestination.

Those God predestined., are "in Christ".. first, .....and then they are "conformed into the image"..

So, the pre-destining, happens after you are born again........as God has predestined all the born again (in Chrsit) to THEN be "conformed".

God does not pre-destined you to believe in Jesus........He pre-destines you, once you are born again... "to be conformed into the image of Christ".

See, the born again is JUSTIFIED..........by Faith........not predestined.

 

[Behold]

Predestination is about one's final destination.

Your Hyper Calvinism nonsense is up and running.


Listen....... FAITH in Christ, is what determines the eternal destination for a Believer. = Heaven


Whereas UNBELIEF.......is what determines the enternal destination for a Christ Rejector.. = HELL

What you mean is predetermination - every single action.

Hyper Calvinism is a doctrine of Devils. (Hebrews 13:9) (KJV) that falsely teaches that a person can't trust in Christ unless God forces them to have faith.

These people have a mental issue that is caused by Calvinism......and it causes them to SEE "predestined" and "elect" even if its not in the verse.

For example.......if you talk to one of Calvin's nuts.......and say........"John 3:16, says that Jesus was given to the WORLD".... (Everyone).
They will literally say........."oh that means only the elect".

 

[Episkopos]

Those God predestined., are "in Christ".. first, .....and then they are "conformed into the image"..

So, the pre-destining, happens after you are born again........as God has predestined all the born again (in Chrsit) to THEN be "conformed".

God does not pre-destined you to believe in Jesus........He pre-destines you, once you are born again... "to be conformed into the image of Christ".

See, the born again is JUSTIFIED..........by Faith........not predestined.

sort of...

But God predestines people to both be vessels of honour AND vessels of dishonour.....from the SAME LUMP. To be born again is just a start that qualifies a person for a higher race of faith. It does NOT necessarily lead to the likeness of Christ. Most won't run in the race of faith due to bad doctrines and bad examples, instead these bury their talent. They only produce a greater ego. What they received as a free gift goes unexploited and produces no lasting fruit. And these don't use their free will wisely. Instead of humbling themselves these double down on their perceived new status...as "born agains"...the same way that Jews looked down on Gentiles for not being God's people.

 

[soberxp]

So Who gives a man humility?

4:7
For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?

 

[Behold]

“For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son…”

Notice that the verse says.......that God "Foreknew"..........and that is not the same idea or definition, as "predestined".

"Foreknew".. means that God KNEW always......who is going to Trust in Christ or not.
And those He KNEW would........are predesteined to be "conformed into the image of Christ".

So, Here is the root theological rot of Calvinism - Hyper Calvinism.

Calvin didnt understand that "God's Foreknowlede"......is not the same as "Pre-destined".

See, the "foreknowledge" of God, means that God knows what is going to happen NEXT.. regarding everything..

Calvin, redefined God's Knowing all, .. .into his false doctrine of "causing it all"...= Predestining.

So, what Calvin did, was falsely redefine "FOREKNOWLEDGE" as "Predestined"....and that is the Satanic ROT in Calvin's theology that poisions it all.

Reader....God's foreknowning is not God predestining..

= God knowning everything that is going to happen next, is not the same as God causing everything to happen Next.

 

[Behold]

sort of...

But God predestines people to both be vessels of honour AND vessels of dishonour.....from the SAME LUMP. To be born again is just a start that qualifies a person for a higher race of faith.

Being "born again"... proves that the person is 'in Christ'....and "one with God"....having become a "new Creation in Christ"...... having received God's "Imputed righteousness"... that is "The Gift of Righteousness".
This happens the very second a SINNER is born again.
So, they START there as "made righteous'..........and then over time they grow in Grace, they learn how to walk by faith and not by sight.......and all of that is their Discipleship........its not their Salvation and its not their righteousness.
Their Salvation is the reason they have been "made righteous" and are restored into Spiritual Union with God and Christ.
Their Discipleship is what they do, day by day.......now that they have already received from God......"The Gift of Salvation"... and "The Gift of Righteousness".. and "The Gift of Eternal Life".

 

[Episkopos]

4:7
For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?

This is true of election...being either being born a Jew (natural level) or else being called of God to run the race of faith on a spiritual level.

Not all who are Jews are elected...not all who are called into the race of faith are elected to be saints. Many are called, few are chosen.

There is a GREAT error in the church nowadays that says that to be born again is a guarantee to be conformed to Christ. But Rev 12 shows us that the devil is ready to devour the newborn who comes from Mother Zion. And so it is...most people who are born again are deceived very quickly into a false gospel. The religious system (Babylon) reigns supreme and deceives the whole world.

Its ironic that the word BABYlon has the word BABY in it. The power of the religious delusion keeps converts as spiritual infants that are easily deceived by every wind of doctione. Abd these become so drunk and spoiled on milk...that they think meat is something that will choke out the life in them...rather than bringing it out.

 

[Episkopos]

Being "born again"... proves that the person is 'in Christ'....and "one with God"....having become a "new Creation in Christ"...... having received God's "Imputed righteousness"... that is "The Gift of Righteousness".

You are mixing things up. There is a gift of grace and there is also the FULNESS of grace. One is a surprise gift at regeneration. And the other is BOUGHT at a cost of EVERYTHING...the price is the cross...which you will deny...since you can only afford the free stuff.

Imputed righteousness is a HUMAN righteousness, that comes from being repentant and humble..qualities you have never known.

This happens the very second a SINNER is born again.
So, they START there as "made righteous'..........and then over time they grow in Grace, they learn how to walk by faith and not by sight.......and all of that is their Discipleship........its not their Salvation and its not their righteousness.

No...there is another spiritual barrier to cross...one of a full surrender and a translation to walk in the kingdom realm...to be actually IN heavenly places.

Their Salvation is the reason they have been "made righteous" and are restored into Spiritual Union with God and Christ.

There is an initial sample of grace that is free and costs us nothing. MADE righteous is ONLY in the full measure of grace whereby one IS CLOTHED with God's righteousness.

Their Discipleship is what they do, day by day.......now that they have already received from God......"The Gift of Salvation"... and "The Gift of Righteousness".. and "The Gift of Eternal Life".

Discipleship is for human righteousness...instruction in righteousness...for MOST believers....and with the RARE spiritual believer there is doctrine and practice to consider based on holiness

The problem with modern believers is that they are on the wrong side of the cross, being unbroken and uncrucified...but now newly spoiled by doctrines that lift them up with religious pride.

 

[soberxp]

This is true of election...being either being born a Jew (natural level) or else being called of God to run the race of faith on a spiritual level.

Not all who are Jews are elected...not all who are called into the race of faith are elected to be saints. Many are called, few are chosen.

There is a GREAT error in the church nowadays that says that to be born again is a guarantee to be conformed to Christ. But Rev 12 shows us that the devil is ready to devour the newborn who comes from Mother Zion. And so it is...most people who are born again are deceived very quickly into a false gospel. The religious system (Babylon) reigns supreme and deceives the whole world.

Its ironic that the word BABYlon has the word BABY in it. The power of the religious delusion keeps converts as spiritual infants that are easily deceived by every wind of doctione. Abd these become so drunk and spoiled on milk...that they think meat is something that will choke out the life in them...rather than bringing it out.

Revelation 12 No children of God are deceived.

There are two women in the Book of Revelation
One is free women，one is boundwomen.


Its ironic that the word BABYlon has the word BABY in it. It is baby of boundwomen.

It means that the prosperous trade of the world passes through Babylon, and these things create all Revelation 4:8
And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

 

[One 2 question]

sort of...

But God predestines people to both be vessels of honour AND vessels of dishonour.....from the SAME LUMP. To be born again is just a start that qualifies a person for a higher race of faith. It does NOT necessarily lead to the likeness of Christ. Most won't run in the race of faith due to bad doctrines and bad examples, instead these bury their talent. They only produce a greater ego. What they received as a free gift goes unexploited and produces no lasting fruit. And these don't use their free will wisely. Instead of humbling themselves these double down on their perceived new status...as "born agains"...the same way that Jews looked down on Gentiles for not being God's people.

So in your opinion who reigns as kings and priests with Christ in His 1000 year kingdom? Which runners, vessels, servants with talents, tree?

 

[rwb]

Free will is the power of choice.
This is GOD given to every person who is.... 'made in our image"........ Gen 1:26

Originally man was created in the likeness and image of God, what happened when son, Seth was born? God had appointed another seed to replace Abel whom Cain killed. Why was Seth begotten in the likeness and image of Adam? What happened to the likeness and image of God that man had first been created in?

Genesis 5:3 (KJV) And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:

Genesis 4:25 (KJV) And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.
Genesis 4:26 (KJV) And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the LORD.

 

[Behold]

You are mixing things up. There is a gift of grace and there is also the FULNESS of grace.

There is the "Gift of Righteousness"....that is given to a Believer.

Imputed righteousness is a HUMAN righteousness,

Initially, "imputed righteousness" was given To Abraham.....so, the reason it was given to Him by God , is because He didnt have any of his own.

And its the same today with any unbeliever, sinner.
They dont have any Righteousness, which is why they are defined by the Law and Commandments as a : sinner., a transgressor, a worker of iniquity.
So, God has to give you "imputed righteousness"........so that you become "The Righteousness OF GOD... in Christ".

No...there is another spiritual barrier to cross...

The Barriers to the Cross would be the Devil..... False Gospels and people like you who try to put theology barriers between God's "Gift of Salvation" and a sinner
That's blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.
Dont do that @Episkopos .

There is an initial sample of grace that is free and costs us nothing. MADE righteous is ONLY in the full measure of grace

Every sinner who comes to God through Faith in Christ, is given "The Gift of Righteous", and "The Gift of Etermal Life" and these are "The Gift of Salvation......ONCE their Sin is initially Forgiven by the Blood of Jesus.

Discipleship is for human righteousness..

No human has righteousness of their own....= "ALL have sinned, there is NONE RIGHTEOUS....no not one"...
This is Why God has to give a BELIEVER, "imputed Righteousness"......= ""Abraham BELIEVED GOD, and it (His faith) was counted to Him as (Imputed) Righteousness".....and "it shall be imputed to US ALSO........if we BELIEVE"...... Paul teaches.

If we Believe, then God gives us "THe Gift of Righteousness", that is "imputed righteousess"... Paul teaches in Romans 3-5, and other places in the Scriptures.

The problem with modern believers is that they are on the wrong side of the cross, being unbroken and uncrucified..

The problem with Cross Rejectors, is that they have not received "imputed righteousness" and they keep proving it by denyng it.

 

[Behold]

Originally man was created in the likeness and image of God, what happened when son, Seth was born?

Seth was not created by God, as you find with Adam.

Seth was created by sexual intercourse between Eve and Adam... and that means that Seth was in Adam's linage, = "Adamic"... fallen.
Just like you.

 

[rwb]

No human has righteousness of their own....= "ALL have sinned, there is NONE RIGHTEOUS....no not one"...
This is Why God has to give a BELIEVER, "imputed Righteousness"......= ""Abraham BELIEVED GOD, and it (His faith) was counted to Him as (Imputed) Righteousness".....and "it shall be imputed to US ALSO........if we BELIEVE"...... Paul teaches.

Wasn't the imputed faith coming through the righteousness of God that Abraham displayed the result of hearing the word of God?

Romans 10:17 (KJV) So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Galatians 3:8 (KJV) And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

Genesis 22:15-18 (KJV) And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time, And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son: That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies; And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.

 

[rwb]

Seth was not created by God, as you find with Adam.

Seth was created by sexual intercourse between Eve and Adam... and that means that Seth was in Adam's linage, = "Adamic"... fallen.
Just like you.

That's why I asked why, what happened? Why didn't the likeness and image of God pass even to every person as you first said, "This is GOD given to every person who is.... 'made in our image"........ Gen 1:26

Isn't it because man through natural choice lost the likeness and image of God when they heeded the voice of the serpent and became natural human? This is the reason man must be born again/born from above that they might once again inherit the likeness and image of God through Christ in us. Just as man has no ability to choose to be born a human, neither does fallen mankind have the ability to choose to be born again.

 

[Behold]

Wasn't the imputed faith coming through the righteousness of God that Abraham displayed the result of hearing the word of God?

The only righteousness that God accepts is His OWN.

So, when a Chrisitan receives from God,= "The Gift of Righteousnes"....they have received God's (imputed) Righteousness.

A.) "THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD........in Christ"

 

[Behold]

That's why I asked why, what happened? Why didn't the likeness and image of God pass even to every person as you first said, "This is GOD given to every person who is.... 'made in our image"........ Gen 1:26

Who is originally "made in our Image" in Gen 1?

"Let us make Man".

= Adam.

So, humanity comes from Adam who was made in God's image.... (Likeness).

Jesus told sinners...... "know ye not that you are gods"?

So, He is not teaching that sinners are GOD.......He's teaching that in God's likeness, mankind was originally created.

 

[rwb]

The only righteousness that God accepts is His OWN.

So, when a Chrisitan receives from God,= "The Gift of Righteousnes"....they have received God's (imputed) Righteousness.

A.) "THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD........in Christ"

This does not answer my question!