Predestination VS Free Will

[rwb]

Who is originally "made in our Image" in Gen 1?

"Let us make Man".

= Adam.

So, humanity comes from Adam who was made in God's image.... (Likeness).

Jesus told sinners...... "know ye not that you are gods"?

So, He is not teaching that sinners are GOD.......He's teaching that in God's likeness, mankind was originally created.

I believe this is called deflection!

 

[Episkopos]

So in your opinion who reigns as kings and priests with Christ in His 1000 year kingdom? Which runners, vessels, servants with talents, tree?

The saints coming out of the tribulation. The righteous don't come back to life until the Millennial rule is over.

 

[WalterandDebbie]

In the parable of the talents, does everyone who is given a talent produce another? Who determines if we will be faithful or not with what we have been given? In this episode we will look at the biblical distinction between predestination and free will.

Hi, Brother, how are you all? We have not prayed about this, but we did discuss it. Partly:

For Whom He Did Foreknow​

Wednesday 2-26-20, Adar 1, 5780 4th. day of the weekly cycle, 68th. Winter day

For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Romans Eight:29

Romans Eight:18-30 KJV

The Spirit Assures Of Future Glory:

18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Romans 8 KJV

Love always, Walter and Debbie

 

[WalterandDebbie]

In the parable of the talents, does everyone who is given a talent produce another? Who determines if we will be faithful or not with what we have been given? In this episode we will look at the biblical distinction between predestination and free will.

Great message, My Brother, Thanks for sharing, we will be in prayer.

Love, Walter and Debbie

 

[Episkopos]

Great message, My Brother, Thanks for sharing, we will be in prayer.

Love, Walter and Debbie

Thank you for stopping in! :) <><

 

[ProDeo]

Originally man was created in the likeness and image of God, what happened when son, Seth was born? God had appointed another seed to replace Abel whom Cain killed. Why was Seth begotten in the likeness and image of Adam? What happened to the likeness and image of God that man had first been created in?

Genesis 5:3 (KJV) And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:

Genesis 4:25 (KJV) And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.
Genesis 4:26 (KJV) And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the LORD.

Gen 9:6 “Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed, for God made man in his own image.

Still in God's image.

 

[rwb]

Gen 9:6 “Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed, for God made man in his own image.

Still in God's image.

Just as Adam's son Seth was begotten after the likeness and image of Adam, so too all the sons/daughters of Adam are also begotten/not made in the same manner. The same fallen nature of Adam is passed down to the whole human race.

Begat - יָלַד yâlad, yaw-lad' - bear, beget, birth(-day), born, (make to) bring forth (children, young), bring up, calve, child, come, be delivered (of a child), time of delivery, gender, hatch, labour, (do the office of a) midwife, declare pedigrees, be the son of, (woman in, woman that) travail(-eth, -ing woman).

 

[Episkopos]

Just as Adam's son Seth was begotten after the likeness and image of Adam, so too all the sons/daughters of Adam are also begotten/not made in the same manner. The same fallen nature of Adam is passed down to the whole human race.

Begat - יָלַד yâlad, yaw-lad' - bear, beget, birth(-day), born, (make to) bring forth (children, young), bring up, calve, child, come, be delivered (of a child), time of delivery, gender, hatch, labour, (do the office of a) midwife, declare pedigrees, be the son of, (woman in, woman that) travail(-eth, -ing woman).

Paul clarifies the issue of the difference between the part of us that is made in God's image (inner man) and the part of us that is fallen in nature (outer man or "old man")

Now some people confuse the inner man with the "New Man" who is to be worn outwardly as clothing OVER the inner man as a replacement for no longer having a sinful covering in the outer man. The New Man is Christ..

 

[rwb]

Paul clarifies the issue of the difference between the part of us that is made in God's image (inner man) and the part of us that is fallen in nature (outer man or "old man")

Now some people confuse the inner man with the "New Man" who is to be worn outwardly as clothing OVER the inner man as a replacement for no longer having a sinful covering in the outer man. The New Man is Christ..

I agree! Before we are born again and become the new man (again) the likeness and image of Christ (second man), we remain in our fallen state as the old man born in the likeness and image of the first man, Adam.

1 Corinthians 15:47-49 (KJV) The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

 

[shepherdsword]

The saints coming out of the tribulation. The righteous don't come back to life until the Millennial rule is over.

This one seem so from:

Rv 20:4-5 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

However, at the second coming we see all the dead resurrected:

1 Th 4:16-17
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

For purposes of scripture reconciliation it appears that any who did not take the mark are included in the first resurrection even though they died long before it was implemented. So technically, they didn't worship the beast either. This would limit the resurrection after the millennium to those not in Christ. How do you reconcile these verses?

 

[ProDeo]

Just as Adam's son Seth was begotten after the likeness and image of Adam, so too all the sons/daughters of Adam are also begotten/not made in the same manner. The same fallen nature of Adam is passed down to the whole human race.

Begat - יָלַד yâlad, yaw-lad' - bear, beget, birth(-day), born, (make to) bring forth (children, young), bring up, calve, child, come, be delivered (of a child), time of delivery, gender, hatch, labour, (do the office of a) midwife, declare pedigrees, be the son of, (woman in, woman that) travail(-eth, -ing woman).

I don't see a statement from God that humans no longer are created in His image, but maybe you know.

 

[Behold]

sort of...

But God predestines people to both be vessels of honour AND vessels of dishonour....

God does not predestine anyone to sin, or to commit evil.
God does not predestine anyone to believe in Christ.

So, when we read verses that talk about "pre-destined".....its always according to God's Foreknowledge, and never according to predestination.

 

[Behold]

. Most won't run in the race of faith due to bad doctrines and bad examples,

You just defined your ministry of "bad doctrines and bad examples).
You dont lead people to Christ or to correct NT Doctrine.
You only lead them to very bizarre self-created or (borrowed) religious concepts.

 

[Behold]

Paul clarifies the issue of the difference between the part of us that is made in God's image (inner man) and the part of us that is fallen in nature (outer man or "old man")

Now that i brought "Paul" to this forum, you've decided to besmurch Paul by trying to associate his NAME with your nonsense theology, and is both deceptive and pathetic.

You are an amazing religious pretender and spiritual fakir, according to your Videos, Threads, and posts.

 

[ProDeo]

The extremist reformist view championed by men such as Luther and Calvin is that man has no agency whatsoever in either salvation or justification. That's how people get predestination so wrong. Predestination is not about salvation or justification...it is ONLY about a certain number of people being conformed to the image of Christ.

Predestination IMO is much more, God created A&E knowing in advance they would fall, see :

Rev 13:8 - and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain.

1Petr 1:20 - He was foreknown before the foundation of the world but was made manifest in the last times for the sake of you.

The Lord knows the outcome from everyone born, or not born yet, in advance.

I am using my free will to comment on your post, God already knows what the end result will be while I am still typing.

The saints rule over the nations in the next age. There's a lot more people saved. In fact, the majority of people who are saved are not chosen. They're not elected and they're not even born again. Not you don't have to be born. It doesn't say unless you are born again, you cannot be saved. That's an invention of the evangelical mind or the Calvinistic mind. But it it's man-made.

This is what you said in the video around 26 minutes. Perhaps you can rephrase or elaborate because it reads as that people who just believe in Jesus (instead of into Jesus) and thus die in their sins can still be saved. One must be born of God, the new man and live by it.

 

[Behold]

Predestination IMO is much more, God created A&E knowing in advance they would fall,

God knows what each of us is going to do next.
He is not causing that, as what we do next is our choice.

God created Humans to be free will beings, capable of love and gave them the right to choose whatever they decide to do next.

 

[Episkopos]

This one seem so from:

Rv 20:4-5 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

However, at the second coming we see all the dead resurrected:

1 Th 4:16-17
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

For purposes of scripture reconciliation it appears that any who did not take the mark are included in the first resurrection even though they died long before it was implemented. So technically, they didn't worship the beast either. This would limit the resurrection after the millennium to those not in Christ. How do you reconcile these verses?

We can see the saints in 2 categories...before the tribulation and during the tribulation. Few are made before the tribulation (144,000) And many saints are made through the pressure of the tribulation knowing that the time is short. (Didn't the early believers think they were the last generation and lived accordingly?) In either case none receive the mark of the beast...whether the beast was present or absent. Only the tribulation saints have to deal DIRECTLY with the beast in an obvious way.

After the first resurrection there can be no more saints,....as Christ is revealed and the saints are ruling from the city Jerusalem...earthly. It would appear that there could be some righteous among the nations...if not, what would the purpose of ruling over them be?

A righteous person defers to those who are in authority over him. Many will not tolerate that...unless they are conditioned to do so from peer pressure. But what if the peer pressure goes the other way? Then it comes down to being loyal or not.

At the present time, the religious system has got a hold on most believers. The church of of "two or three" is avoided as if it was the cult...rather than the Babylonian system that teaches a shadow gospel. The righteous admire the saints of today, even if it is out of their reach. The filthy look down on any who don't believe as they do. I would say even the wicked see the saints with a form of grudging admiration. So the battle lines are clear when it comes to holiness and righteousness.

But the Millennium rule has very different parameters. Now, the saints are powerful...not weak and small in numbers. The bible says...they will rule with a rod of iron.... enforcing righteousness. The unrighteous are rebuked publicly...leading to a greater and greater resentment...since these will NOT forsake their own ways...until an open rebellion breaks out. But unlike this present age, the wicked are not allowed to triumph.

In either case....a denial of self is required to line up with God's will.

To understand the bible one has to leave the ego behind.

 

[Behold]

We can see the saints in 2 categories...before the tribulation and during the tribulation. Few are made before the tribulation (144,000)

Your heretical theology never agrees with the NT., and that is because you are a commentary "head", who obviously does not study a bible, even tho you probably own a few.

"behold, i actually have a NT tattooed inside my Mind and the name Paul is my NEW favorite"

Geez.....

Listen, Every born again Christian is a Saint, and the TRIB has not started yet. @Episkopos

-Romans 1:7 ESV / 397 helpful votes
To all those in Rome who are loved by God and called to be SAINTS: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Corinthians 1:2 ESV / 251 helpful votes​

To the church of God that is in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be SAINTS together with all those who in every place call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, both their Lord and ours:

Ephesians 1:1 ESV / 233 helpful votes​

Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, To the SAINTS who are in Ephesus, and are faithful in Christ Jesus:

Philippians 1:1 ESV / 180 helpful votes​

Paul and Timothy, servants of Christ Jesus, To all the SAINTS in Christ Jesus who are at Philippi, with the overseers and deacons:

Acts 9:13 ESV / 151 helpful votes​

But Ananias answered, “Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much evil he has done to your SAINTS at Jerusalem.

Colossians 1:2 ESV / 147 helpful votes​

To the SAINTS and faithful brothers in Christ at Colossae: Grace to you and peace from God our Father.

1 Corinthians 14:33 ESV / 110 helpful votes​

For God is not a God of confusion but of peace. As in all the churches of the SAINTS,

Acts 26:10 ESV / 98 helpful votes​

And I did so in Jerusalem. I not only locked up many of the SAINTS in prison after receiving authority from the chief priests, but when they were put to death I cast my vote against them.

Jude 1:3 ESV / 94 helpful votes​

Beloved, although I was very eager to write to you about our common salvation, I found it necessary to write appealing to you to contend for the faith that was once for all delivered to the SAINTS.

​

​

 

[ProDeo]

God knows what each of us is going to do next.
He is not causing that, as what we do next is our choice.

God created Humans to be free will beings, capable of love and gave them the right to choose whatever they decide to do next.

Exactly.

 

[Episkopos]

This is what you said in the video around 26 minutes. Perhaps you can rephrase or elaborate because it reads as that people who just believe in Jesus (instead of into Jesus) and thus die in their sins can still be saved. One must be born of God, the new man and live by it.

No one ever specifies WHY a person must be born again. It's the same problem we see with pre-destination. People go on flights of fancy and claim things that are NOT in the bible because they have been taught error based on human reasoning.

All who call on the Lord will indeed be saved. But saved to what?

There is only one eternal destiny that sees a person cast into the lake of fire to perish there. That leaves 3 other destinies among the saved.

So then, if a person is not wicked and destroyed....and not a saint..that leaves 2 other possibilities....to be among the righteous...based on humility. brokenness and faithfulness to God's will...as in the meek inherit the earth....or to be among the filthy dreamers that are cast into outer darkness to wander there forever. In that case a rude awakening overtakes those who have relied on a religious imagination that exalts itself above a real intimacy with God.

My mission and ministry is to MINIMIZE the damage because of a horrible twist in the history of the church. To save brethren who have turned aside to fables and gross error.

I see myself as a kind of army medic or corpsman who tries applying the necessary measures to keep those ho have been hurt or deceived by the spiritual warfare being waged all around us....at LEAST alive in the sense of having a good end. Some will shrug me off saying they are rich and in need of nothing even as they bleed out. Some will get some healing but then return to fight without realizing that their whole stance is already compromised.

In my experience most people by far look for an established group and even when they realize that I'm speaking the truth...all they do is change denominations. That's why I have a very specific view of the church...those who have fully surrendered to God and have NO more confidence in the flesh or what man declares as being the church.