Isn’t it odd that the apostles never questioned Jesus about his forever torture chamber?

[NotTheRock]

It's my understanding that Judaism doesn't teach such a doctrine. So a forever torture chamber would certainly have been a radical new concept to the Apostles. And then consider that Jesus, who described himself as the "good shepherd", would never stop searching for the lost and who advocated strongly for mercy and forgiveness was suddenly threatening the unrepentant to a forever torture chamber. Yet, there is no mention in the scriptures of the Apostles questioning Jesus about it. Why is that?

 

[Chrysostomos]

In the Old Testament, the concept of the afterlife was barely developed—neither heaven nor hell as we think of them today. Everyone, righteous or not, went to Sheol, a shadowy place for all the dead (Ps 88:48, Eccl 9:10). The idea of a distinct heaven or hell wasn’t clear because Jesus hadn’t yet made the ultimate sacrifice for believers’ sins (Heb 10:12). After His death, Jesus descended to the dead to lead the Old Testament righteous out (1 Pet 3:19–20), and the repentant thief on the cross was the first to enter paradise with Him (Luke 23:43). This redefined the afterlife.

Jesus spoke clearly about Gehenna (Matt 5:22, Mark 9:43) and explained the divide between the saved and the lost in the parable of Lazarus and the rich man (Luke 16:19–31). That seems pretty straightforward—He laid it out plainly. As for why the Apostles didn’t ask more, not every conversation was recorded (John 21:25), so they might’ve discussed it off-script.

Also, Jesus’ character aligns perfectly with the God of the Old Testament. Both are one in essence, showing justice, wrath against sin, mercy, and love. The Old Testament calls God a jealous Judge (Nah 1:2, Lev 26:14–33) yet merciful (Ex 34:6). Jesus judges (Matt 13:40–42, John 5:29), warns of wrath (John 3:36), and offers salvation (John 3:16). Revelation ties it together, showing Jesus as King and Judge (Rev 19:11–21), fulfilling the Old and New Testament’s God. So, the Apostles likely saw Jesus’ teachings as a natural extension of what they already knew about God’s justice and mercy.

 

[Chrysostomos]

John 3:16: “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.” The key is “whoever believes in Him.” Salvation is only for those who believe in Christ, not for every unsaved person rejecting Him.

If you read the rest of John 3, it’s even plainer. John 3:18–20 and 3:36 (NIV) state: “Whoever does not believe stands condemned already” and “whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them.” God’s love in John 3:16 is an offer of salvation to a fallen world, but those who refuse Christ remain under His wrath.

The Apostles clearly and concisely conveyed Jesus’ teachings on salvation. John’s Gospel, chapter 3, lays it out plainly (John 3:16–18, 36). This clarity suggests Jesus and the Apostles thoroughly discussed His message, allowing John to summarize it so succinctly and unmistakably. No need for them to question further when the teaching was already so clear.

 

[HealthyShape]

Jesus did not teach about any forever torture chamber, so why should disciples ask about it?

 

[amigo de christo]

It's my understanding that Judaism doesn't teach such a doctrine. So a forever torture chamber would certainly have been a radical new concept to the Apostles. And then consider that Jesus, who described himself as the "good shepherd", would never stop searching for the lost and who advocated strongly for mercy and forgiveness was suddenly threatening the unrepentant to a forever torture chamber. Yet, there is no mention in the scriptures of the Apostles questioning Jesus about it. Why is that?

Because IF JESUS said it THEN there is no debate . IT IS TRUTH and it is and has come OF GOD HIMSELF .
IF JESUS says then i suggest we all simply BELEIVES that which HE says .
Now to the trenches one and to the trenches all . FOR EVERY WORD OF GOD IS TRUTH .
GOD cannot lie . Thus every WORD OF CHRIST IS TRUTH as HE cannot lie .

 

[amigo de christo]

John 3:16: “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.” The key is “whoever believes in Him.” Salvation is only for those who believe in Christ, not for every unsaved person rejecting Him.

If you read the rest of John 3, it’s even plainer. John 3:18–20 and 3:36 (NIV) state: “Whoever does not believe stands condemned already” and “whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them.” God’s love in John 3:16 is an offer of salvation to a fallen world, but those who refuse Christ remain under His wrath.

The Apostles clearly and concisely conveyed Jesus’ teachings on salvation. John’s Gospel, chapter 3, lays it out plainly (John 3:16–18, 36). This clarity suggests Jesus and the Apostles thoroughly discussed His message, allowing John to summarize it so succinctly and unmistakably. No need for them to question further when the teaching was already so clear.

What you have wrote is the truth my friend .
SO now allow a word of reminder to us all .
YOU are correct SALVATION is only , and i do mean ONLY given unto those who do BELIEVE IN JESUS .
Only they are saved . As JESUS himself says what THE ONLY condemnation IS . that they BELEIVED NOT , DID NOT COME
to the LIGHT .
SO here is my reminder
WHY On earth are people sitting in these ecumincal interfaith churches . THEIR LEADERS arleady PREACHED an anti christ lie
On stage , more than once
Saying all religoins do KNOW GOD are just coming to him differently . TALK ABOUT ANTI CHRIST right there .
And sadly they sell this lie to christendom as love
And worse more and more of christendom now buy into this lie . THUS they have made VOID the dire NEED TO BELEIVE on JESUS
to be saved .

 

[Lambano]

It's my understanding that Judaism doesn't teach such a doctrine.

In Judaism, Gehinnom (transliterated to "Geena" in the Greek New Testament writings and usually translated "Hell" in English) is more like Catholic Purgatory.*

From "Intro to Judaism"

Definition​ Gehinnom, often referred to as Gehenna, is a concept in Jewish thought that represents a place of punishment or purification after death. It is commonly seen as a temporary state for the souls of the wicked, where they undergo suffering before being purified and allowed to ascend to Gan Eden, or the Garden of Eden. This idea connects closely with beliefs surrounding death, mourning practices, and the afterlife in Judaism. 5 Must Know Facts For Your Next Test​ Gehinnom is derived from the Hebrew word for the Valley of Hinnom, which was associated with idolatrous practices in ancient Jerusalem and later became symbolic of punishment. It is believed that souls can spend up to 12 months in Gehinnom undergoing purification before moving on to Gan Eden. The concept emphasizes God's mercy, as even the wicked have a chance for redemption through suffering in Gehinnom. While Gehinnom is often viewed negatively, it serves a purpose in the afterlife narrative by highlighting themes of justice and purification. In modern Jewish thought, Gehinnom is sometimes interpreted metaphorically rather than literally, representing spiritual struggles rather than a physical location.

See also Chabad on Gehinnom​

*It should also be noted that in Jewish thought, for some arch-sinners, when you burn away the dross, there's nothing left.

 

[amigo de christo]

John 3:16: “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.” The key is “whoever believes in Him.” Salvation is only for those who believe in Christ, not for every unsaved person rejecting Him.

If you read the rest of John 3, it’s even plainer. John 3:18–20 and 3:36 (NIV) state: “Whoever does not believe stands condemned already” and “whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them.” God’s love in John 3:16 is an offer of salvation to a fallen world, but those who refuse Christ remain under His wrath.

The Apostles clearly and concisely conveyed Jesus’ teachings on salvation. John’s Gospel, chapter 3, lays it out plainly (John 3:16–18, 36). This clarity suggests Jesus and the Apostles thoroughly discussed His message, allowing John to summarize it so succinctly and unmistakably. No need for them to question further when the teaching was already so clear.

After reading what i just left to you
Let me ask you another question .
WHO do you THINK is behind that lie . OH its okay if one beleives NOT ON JESUS CHRIST
they will surely not perish .
WHO ya think would sell such a thing unto this world and to christendom . a hint
we seen him in the garden .
DID GOD REALLY SAY
oh nay , nay surely ye shall not die . OH he is a liar all right and has always desired the death of man .
And now desires man to remain IN DEATH and be led ONLY to the second death .

 

[HealthyShape]

In Judaism, Gehinnom (transliterated to "Geena" in the Greek New Testament writings and usually translated "Hell" in English) is more like Catholic Purgatory.*

From "Intro to Judaism"

Definition​ Gehinnom, often referred to as Gehenna, is a concept in Jewish thought that represents a place of punishment or purification after death. It is commonly seen as a temporary state for the souls of the wicked, where they undergo suffering before being purified and allowed to ascend to Gan Eden, or the Garden of Eden. This idea connects closely with beliefs surrounding death, mourning practices, and the afterlife in Judaism. 5 Must Know Facts For Your Next Test​ Gehinnom is derived from the Hebrew word for the Valley of Hinnom, which was associated with idolatrous practices in ancient Jerusalem and later became symbolic of punishment. It is believed that souls can spend up to 12 months in Gehinnom undergoing purification before moving on to Gan Eden. The concept emphasizes God's mercy, as even the wicked have a chance for redemption through suffering in Gehinnom. While Gehinnom is often viewed negatively, it serves a purpose in the afterlife narrative by highlighting themes of justice and purification. In modern Jewish thought, Gehinnom is sometimes interpreted metaphorically rather than literally, representing spiritual struggles rather than a physical location.

See also Chabad on Gehinnom​

*It should also be noted that in Jewish thought, for some arch-sinners, when you burn away the dross, there's nothing left.

Medieval Judaism or modern Jewish thought is not related to the culture of the New Testament time and place, though...

 

[NotTheRock]

So, the Apostles likely saw Jesus’ teachings as a natural extension of what they already knew about God’s justice and mercy.

So the Apostles likely agreed that Jesus's forever torture chamber was a natural extension of God's justice and mercy?

 

[NotTheRock]

Because IF JESUS said it THEN there is no debate . IT IS TRUTH and it is and has come OF GOD HIMSELF .

You don't think an Apostle might say "Wait...what? You mean that you're the good shepherd that never stops searching for the lost but eventually you DO give up on trying to bring them into the Father's Kingdom and end up torturing them day and night without respite FOREVER?!"

Don't you think there would be something in the Gospels wherein the Apostles questioned Jesus on his forever torture chamber? After all, they had been hearing Jesus instruct to pray for one's enemies, do unto others, forgive, show mercy, and asked our Father to "Forgive them for they know not what they do". After all of that the Apostles wrote nothing in the gospels regarding this monolithic contradiction, is that your belief?

 

[NotTheRock]

In Judaism, Gehinnom (transliterated to "Geena" in the Greek New Testament writings and usually translated "Hell" in English) is more like Catholic Purgatory.*

From "Intro to Judaism"

Definition​ Gehinnom, often referred to as Gehenna, is a concept in Jewish thought that represents a place of punishment or purification after death. It is commonly seen as a temporary state for the souls of the wicked, where they undergo suffering before being purified and allowed to ascend to Gan Eden, or the Garden of Eden. This idea connects closely with beliefs surrounding death, mourning practices, and the afterlife in Judaism. 5 Must Know Facts For Your Next Test​ Gehinnom is derived from the Hebrew word for the Valley of Hinnom, which was associated with idolatrous practices in ancient Jerusalem and later became symbolic of punishment. It is believed that souls can spend up to 12 months in Gehinnom undergoing purification before moving on to Gan Eden. The concept emphasizes God's mercy, as even the wicked have a chance for redemption through suffering in Gehinnom. While Gehinnom is often viewed negatively, it serves a purpose in the afterlife narrative by highlighting themes of justice and purification. In modern Jewish thought, Gehinnom is sometimes interpreted metaphorically rather than literally, representing spiritual struggles rather than a physical location.

See also Chabad on Gehinnom​

*It should also be noted that in Jewish thought, for some arch-sinners, when you burn away the dross, there's nothing left.

Thanks. We Christians of believe that all people were dead in the grave until they were spiritually resurrected upon Jesus's sacrifice. Right?

Anyway, if what you shared is accurate, then it sounds like the Jews of Jesus's era, including the Apostles, believed that all Jews would eventually make it to God's Kingdom. It undoubtedly would have been a major shock to the Apostles that Jesus had a forever torture chamber waiting for some.

 

[NotTheRock]

It should also be noted that in Jewish thought, for some arch-sinners, when you burn away the dross, there's nothing left.

I doubt that doctrine is widely accepted in Judaism based on this verse:

Proverbs 25:4 esv
Take away the dross from the silver, and the smith has material for a vessel.

Of course, most of Christianity ignore mass swathes of scriptures in order to remain married to false theologies so I suppose it can also happen in Judaism.

 

[Behold]

It's my understanding that Judaism doesn't teach such a doctrine. So a forever torture chamber would certainly have been a radical new concept to the Apostles. And then consider that Jesus, who described himself as the "good shepherd", would never stop searching for the lost and who advocated strongly for mercy and forgiveness was suddenly threatening the unrepentant to a forever torture chamber. Yet, there is no mention in the scriptures of the Apostles questioning Jesus about it. Why is that?

Christianity does not threaten you with Hell.
Christianity understands that Heaven exists, and Hell exists, and each person born has the opiton of choosing one or the other as our eternal destination.

Christianity wants you to go to Heaven, and not to Hell.
God wants you to go to Heaven, and not to Hell, and He leaves this decision up to each person.

When we think of Heaven or Hell as eternal destinations, and each of us gets to choose one of them as our eternal destination, then we have understood the situation correctly.

 

[Chrysostomos]

So the Apostles likely agreed that Jesus's forever torture chamber was a natural extension of God's justice and mercy?

The Apostles trusted Jesus’ teaching that there’s an alternative to Sheol—eternal life with God in paradise. Before Jesus’ sacrificial death and resurrection, there was no other option; everyone went to Sheol.

Peter even preached that Jesus descended to the realm of the dead to proclaim victory and lead the faithful out (Acts 2:31, 1 Peter 3:18-20). Paul described being caught up to paradise himself (2 Corinthians 12:2-4), showing their deep conviction in this new reality.

 

[Lambano]

Medieval Judaism or modern Jewish thought is not related to the culture of the New Testament time and place, though...

Both modern Rabbinical Judaism and Christianity evolved from First Century Judaism. Obviously, they've diverged since then, but the question is: How would Jesus's references to "Gehinnom" have been understood by a first century Jewish audience?

Some secondary questions would be, why did the Jewish and Christian understandings of Gehinnom diverge? Did the Christian (Catholic) understanding of Purgatory develop organically, or was it derived from earlier first century traditions?

 

[Lambano]

I doubt that doctrine is widely accepted in Judaism based on this verse:

Judaism's understanding of the afterlife is somewhat diverse. One school of thought is that the really wicked are destroyed. And there is plenty of discussion about how wicked is unredeemable. They say if you get two rabbis together, you'll get three opinions on any subject.

I included some links to Jewish websites if you're interested in what they believe.

 

[Lambano]

Christianity does not threaten you with Hell.

I'm sure brother (?) Jack would disagree with you. Hell IS a threat, and an effective one.

Christianity understands that Heaven exists, and Hell exists, and each person born has the opiton of choosing one or the other as our eternal destination.

And I'm sure our brothers from the Reformed side of Protestantism would disagree with you there, too.

 

[Behold]

I'm sure brother (?) Jack would disagree with you. Hell IS a threat, and an effective one.

Christianity does not promote Hell as a Threat.

Jesus does.

Christianity offers the way out of Hell.

Now, will an Evangelist or a seasoned Pastor use the threat of Hell to try to scare a certain type of person out of Hell and into Heaven?
Jude did and wrote about it.
I'm sure Paul did also, when necessary.

 

[Lambano]

I'm sure Paul did also, when necessary.

I don't see it in any of Paul's speeches recorded in Acts, nor in any of his letters.