Jesus is the Son of his God

[Matthias]

How do you explain this to a Muslim or a Jew?

 

[Jay Ross]

How do you explain this to a Muslim or a Jew?

For the Jews, God said that he will plant them in His fertile field and will teach them on the mountain of God, the things that are important for them to know. The rock that comes down from heaven in our near future, is the foundation stone that God will teach the Jews about and why Jesus is the Son of God.

For Muslims, God is using visions and visitations are being used to being about an understanding that Jesus is the Son of God.

 

[Matthias]

For the Jews, God said that he will plant them in His fertile field and will teach them on the mountain of God, the things that are important for them to know. The rock that comes down from heaven in our near future, is the foundation stone that God will teach the Jews about and why Jesus is the Son of God.

For Muslims, God is using visions and visitations are being used to being about an understanding that Jesus is the Son of God.

What has the reaction from Muslims and Jews been when you explain it to them that way?

 

[Jay Ross]

What has the reaction from Muslims and Jews been when you explain it to them that way?

For Jews they are still fixated upon the lost promises of land that they believe were a forever promise from God. Presently they are still trying to connect with God in their own strength.

There is no need for me to talk to Muslims that have had visions and dreams and been challenged by them to turn back to God's pathways.

Those Muslims who have not had dreams and visions from God, it is very difficult to break through the clerics' words and advise that Jesus is not the son of God..

 

[Matthias]

For Jews they are still fixated upon the lost promises of land that they believe were a forever promise from God. Presently they are still trying to connect with God in their own strength.

There is no need for me to talk to Muslims that have had visions and dreams and been challenged by them to turn back to God's pathways.

Those Muslims who have not had dreams and visions from God, it is very difficult to break through the clerics' words and advise that Jesus is not the son of God..

Thanks.

I’m leery of the dreams claims. That’s not how disciples are made for Messiah in scripture.

 

[Jay Ross]

Thanks.

I’m leery of the dreams claims. That’s not how disciples are made for Messiah in scripture.

It is not always our place to judge God's ways of doing things. Just look at God's way in His Salvation Plan for mankind, would we have done it His way?

 

[Matthias]

It is not always our place to judge God's ways of doing things.

In the accounts of Muslim dreams I’ve read, the gospel Jesus preached isn’t there. If there are dreams where it is then I would be satisfied and comfortable with it. Content is what I’m looking at.

Just look at God's way in His Salvation Plan for mankind, would we have done it His way?

It’s the only way I know.

 

[Hillsage]

How do you explain this to a Muslim or a Jew?

How do you explain it? I've never done so with a Muslim.
And the only Jew I know, who gives me credit for her coming to the Lord, did so because of the questions I asked when I found out she was raised as a real Jew (her folks started Samsonite luggage). I never knew a born/raised Jew before, and had questions about 'her faith'. I frustrated her so much, because she didn't know the answers to most of my questions. And she asked me about my zealous excitement for my 'brand' of churchianity (sic). Though born and raised in Denver, she met a rich farmer where we live in western Kansas. He had been raised a Roman Catholic. She wouldn't go there, and he wouldn't go Jewish, so they ended up going to the local Methodist and languished spiritually.

 

[Matthias]

How do you explain it?

Thank you for asking. I explain it to Muslims and Jews by using the Jewish law of agency.

I've never done so with a Muslim.
And the only Jew I know, who gives me credit for her coming to the Lord, did so because of the questions I asked when I found out she was raised as a real Jew (her folks started Samsonite luggage). I never knew a born/raised Jew before, and had questions about 'her faith'. I frustrated her so much, because she didn't know the answers to most of my questions. And she asked me about my zealous excitement for my 'brand' of churchianity (sic). Though born and raised in Denver, she met a rich farmer where we live in western Kansas. He had been raised a Roman Catholic. She wouldn't go there, and he wouldn't go Jewish, so they ended up going to the local Methodist and languished spiritually.

 

[ProverbsInPink]

How do you explain this to a Muslim or a Jew?

I don't think I'd try to explain such a thing when it is wrong and unbiblical.

I wouldn't be leading the Jew or Muslim into understanding when I don't understand myself.

 

[Matthias]

I don't think I'd try to explain such a thing when it is wrong and unbiblical.

Blessed be the God and Father of our lord Jesus Messiah. No?

Jesus said not my will but your will be done. No?

I wouldn't be leading the Jew or Muslim into understanding when I don't understand myself.

 

[ProverbsInPink]

Blessed be the God and Father of our lord Jesus Messiah. No?

Jesus said not my will but your will be done. No?

In my view,no.

I think any doxology or debate regarding Jesus fail when implying Jesus is not God the word made flesh.

As far as Jesus referring to God,the Father, in third person I find it useful to recall to whom Jesus was speaking.

To those Jews who followed him and listened to his sermons he appeared as an itinerate rabbi.A mortal man.

In speaking in third person Jesus was leading listeners to understand a rabbi was teaching them God's commandments from a human interpersonal perspective.

Which is why Jesus asked John the Baptist to baptize him. Jesus didn't need to be purified of his sins because he was without sin.

Therein leading people to understand his message by example.

There are other verses where Jesus identified his Divine nature.

However, if he would have taught listeners by saying He is the God of their fathers, his message would be overshadowed by what the people would have seen as blasphemy first and foremost.
We have but to recall his trial before the Pharisees and that occuring due to his prior remarks that implied he was God serving in his healing miracles.

 

[Matthias]

In my view,no.

Okay. Thanks.

I see both propositions presented in scripture (Ephesians 1:3 and 2 Corinthians 1:3; Matthew 26:39 and Mark 14:36 and Luke 22:42 and John 6:38).

I think any doxology or debate regarding Jesus fail when implying Jesus is not God the word made flesh.

As far as Jesus referring to God,the Father, in third person I find it useful to recall to whom Jesus was speaking.

To those Jews who followed him and listened to his sermons he appeared as an itinerate rabbi.A mortal man.

In speaking in third person Jesus was leading listeners to understand a rabbi was teaching them God's commandments from a human interpersonal perspective.

Which is why Jesus asked John the Baptist to baptize him. Jesus didn't need to be purified of his sons because he was without sin.

Therein leading people to understand his message by example.

There are other verses where Jesus identified his Divine nature.

However, if he would have taught listeners by saying He is the God of their fathers, his message would be overshadowed by what the people would have seen as blasphemy first and foremost.
We have but to recall his trial before the Pharisees and that occuring due to his prior remarks that implied he was God serving in his healing miracles.

 

[JustMe]

In my view,no.

I think any doxology or debate regarding Jesus fail when implying Jesus is not God the word made flesh.

As far as Jesus referring to God,the Father, in third person I find it useful to recall to whom Jesus was speaking.

To those Jews who followed him and listened to his sermons he appeared as an itinerate rabbi.A mortal man.

In speaking in third person Jesus was leading listeners to understand a rabbi was teaching them God's commandments from a human interpersonal perspective.

Which is why Jesus asked John the Baptist to baptize him. Jesus didn't need to be purified of his sons because he was without sin.

Therein leading people to understand his message by example.

There are other verses where Jesus identified his Divine nature.

However, if he would have taught listeners by saying He is the God of their fathers, his message would be overshadowed by what the people would have seen as blasphemy first and foremost.
We have but to recall his trial before the Pharisees and that occuring due to his prior remarks that implied he was God serving in his healing miracles.

Hello, could you explain why your discussion would 'fail' with a 'non-Christian' simply because you explicitly state that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God?

From my experience on this topic, you seem to be one of many who identify as genuine Christian believers but struggle to accept the scriptural truth that Jesus is the Son of God and not God the Son.

Attempting to argue and convert others to God by emphasizing the importance of His Son through proselytizing is often ineffective and likely to fail from the outset, especially if you try to confuse people such as knowledgeable Jews or Muslims with the outdated concept of the Trinity, which requires accepting the belief that Jesus is God the Son. How could anyone be convinced by this interpretation of who Christ is, which is not biblically supported?

I understand this might be difficult to hear, and I have been direct with you, but on this matter, there is no room for ambiguity. One either truly believes in the Son of God or does not. There is no middle ground or neutral position where human philosophy dominates.

 

[ProverbsInPink]

Hello, could you explain why your discussion would 'fail' with a 'non-Christian' simply because you explicitly state that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God?

From my experience on this topic, you seem to be one of many who identify as genuine Christian believers but struggle to accept the scriptural truth that Jesus is the Son of God and not God the Son.

Attempting to argue and convert others to God by emphasizing the importance of His Son through proselytizing is often ineffective and likely to fail from the outset, especially if you try to confuse people such as knowledgeable Jews or Muslims with the outdated concept of the Trinity, which requires accepting the belief that Jesus is God the Son. How could anyone be convinced by this interpretation of who Christ is, which is not biblically supported?

I understand this might be difficult to hear, and I have been direct with you, but on this matter, there is no room for ambiguity. One either truly believes in the Son of God or does not. There is no middle ground or neutral position where human philosophy dominates.

It's not difficult to hear at all.

God ordains understanding. You don't understand Jesus was God on Earth. It is true and in His word. No ambiguity at all.

 

[Matthias]

It's not difficult to hear at all.

God ordains understanding. You don't understand Jesus was God on Earth. It is true and in His word. No ambiguity at all.

I understand that Jesus was God on earth. I agree that it is true and that it is in scripture.

Do you self-identify as a trinitarian?

 

[ProverbsInPink]

I understand that Jesus was God on earth. I agree that it is true and that it is in scripture.

Do you self-identify as a trinitarian?

Self identity? I am as God made me. Called into his grace.
John 1

 

[Matthias]

Self identity? I am as God made me. Called into his grace.
John 1

The reason I asked is because I’ve never met a trinitarian who believes that “Jesus was God on earth” say that their view prohibits (or conflicts with) “Blessed be the God and Father of our lord Jesus Christ” and Jesus saying “not my will but your will be done”.

I doubt that I have now.

 

[ProverbsInPink]

The reason I asked is because I’ve never met a trinitarian who believes that “Jesus was God on earth” say that their view prohibits (or conflicts with) “Blessed be the God and Father of our lord Jesus Christ” and Jesus saying “not my will but your will be done”.

I doubt that I have now.

I made an earlier post where I gave my point if view as to why Jesus addressed God in third person.

 

[Matthias]

I made an earlier post where I gave my point if view as to why Jesus addressed God in third person.

It’s fine with me that you aren’t a trinitarian. It will be fine with some, not all, of the trinitarians.

Jewish monotheists and trinitarians can agree at some level on a particular point which you cannot. I respect that.