Did the Apostle Paul believe in a forever burning hell?

[Jack]

For the letter kills but Holy spirit gives life.

Don't focus on the hell, focus on the life.

You'd better focus on Hell. It's the most important Bible doctrine! That's why Satan sends his messengers here to convince people there's no eternal fire! As we are witnessing right here and now.

 

[ScottA]

My understanding is that it CAN mean forever but that it can also mean for a period of time, such as an age. I know that Paul was describing an age because "forever" would contradict many of his own teachings as well as Biblical teachings.

The word of God comes in parable form (purposely hidden from evil). So to get technical with the wording is to go the way of evil, not unlike legalism and the Law.

Which basically (spiritually) is out of context with heavenly/Godly matters. For which it is written that the words are [only] spiritually discerned, likely even needing an interpreter.

Thus so many interpretations and disagreements regarding scripture. Because it is not people who interpret, but the Spirit--who does so even unequally, but rather by His own choosing and often only "here a little, there a little" according to God’s perfect timing.

 

[NotTheRock]

Humanity is a creation of Light vs. darkness, the "image" of things on high, including God. Which was His act of dividing the Light from the darkness--to, as it is written--"destroy" it. Without which there would be no creation--no humanity. He's cleaning House--and no, the dirt is not made clean--His own body is made clean.

So your theology is that God created humans with the full knowledge that many would not follow the Son while on Earth and so he tortures them forever?

 

[NotTheRock]

The word of God comes in parable form (purposely hidden from evil). So to get technical is to go the way of evil, not unlike legalism and the Law.

Which basically (spiritually) is out of context with heavenly/Godly matters. For which it is written that the words are [only] spiritually discerned, likely even needing an interpreter.

Thus so many interpretations and disagreements regarding scripture. Because it is not people who interpret, but the Spirit--who does so even unequally, but rather by His own choosing and often only "here a little, there a little" according to God’s perfect timing.

I'm no theologian nor do I understand ancient Greek but my English is just fine and so when I see numerous English translations contradicting THEMSELVES that's when I deduce that they contain mistranslations.

For instance:
Matthew 25:46
King James Version
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Luke 3:6
King James Version
6 And all flesh shall see the salvation of God.​

Same Bible. So which is it? Will all flesh see salvation or are some toasted forever?

 

[ScottA]

So your theology is that God created humans with the full knowledge that many would not follow the Son while on Earth and so he tortures them forever?

See, this is the problem! Many think God created the earth and this world, wound it up and let it go to run Devil may care.

Which is completely backwards.

On the contrary, this world is not unfolding by chance, but is unfolding as a revealing of all that "was" already finished "before the foundation of the world." We all are--that man of sin--now revealed as a witness before the Judgment...we are all doing what we're doing because of what and who we "were" before the world began. God has created an "image" of each of our time of decision--and yes, we are last to know, revealed first by His servants the prophets--now in living color. But with a caviat exception of repentance, which many will not receive for hatred of God. These will perish. It is written.

No wonder you are repulsed by what you can't imagine is true--because it's not--because you have not seen what is actually true.

 

[ScottA]

I'm no theologian nor do I understand ancient Greek but my English is just fine and so when I see numerous English translations contradicting THEMSELVES that's when I deduce that they contain mistranslations.

For instance:
Matthew 25:46
King James Version
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Luke 3:6​

King James Version​

6 And all flesh shall see the salvation of God.​

Same Bible. So which is it? Will all flesh see salvation or are some toasted forever?

Both are true (in spite of not perceiving by the key of knowledge).

But you misunderstand. "Salvation" is not our's, but His [first]...and only our's in Him.

 

[NotTheRock]

Okee dokie.

 

[3 Resurrections]

Everyone who died this very day... as a Christ rejector, never born again, went to HELL like a bullet.

You didn't read my statement carefully enough. When Christ rejecters die, they do go to Hell (the grave). What I wrote in my comments is that the wicked dead do not get an ETERNAL LIFE of torment in Hell (the grave). The souls of the wicked dead are reserved in Hell (the grave) to face God's judgment in the "resurrection to destruction" when they are fated to perish utterly, both body and soul. God "throws the bad away" in the judgment. He does not stage a perpetual hot-dog roast for them throughout eternity.

Should I believe you or Jesus?

Revelation 20:10
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

I am saying the same thing as Jesus. The verse says this torment was going to be experienced "unto the ages" by #1) the Beast and #2) the False Prophet, and #3) the devil and his angels. And these ages were coming to an end in Paul's days because he wrote that "the ends of the ages" had come upon them by that time (1 Cor. 10:11).

In fact, none of these in this Rev. 20:10 verse have yet died who are suffering torment during this regular "day and night" environment. This "Lake of fire" isn't Hell (the grave), because "day and night" are still operating as usual. Rev. 19:20 says about the Beast and the False Prophet "...these both were cast ALIVE into a lake of fire burning with brimstone." Regardless of who you think they are, they have not yet died before they are cast into this "Lake of fire" environment.

Your concept of the "Lake of fire" needs some serious revision, since it was actually a first-century phenomenon taking place in the city of Jerusalem as it was being burned down for a second time.

 

[St. SteVen]

we are all doing what we're doing because of what and who we "were" before the world began.

So God predestined people to destruction? (eternal or otherwise) ???
You seem to want to blame it on the individuals, as if God was not sovereign, omniscient or omnibenevolent.
Monstrous accusations from my perspective. With malice and foresight... ???

 

[ScottA]

So God predestined people to destruction? (eternal or otherwise) ???
You seem to want to blame it on the individuals, as if God was not sovereign, omniscient or omnibenevolent.
Monstrous accusations from my perspective. With malice and foresight... ???

Read the post again, you're still looking at everything backwards. "Predestination" wrongly assumes a timeline with things not happening before, but after. Like I said, that's backwards. That would be like reading a book that isn't written until we read it. That's crazy. What did you think "It is written" meant? It is as I have been saying--written and finished "before"--and only now read/revealed.

And just think of all that should be redefined, knowing that all this time everything has been wrongly considered: considered backwards from God’s reality--as written first, as having been before the world began, then revealed afterwards.

 

[Jack]

You didn't read my statement carefully enough. When Christ rejecters die, they do go to Hell (the grave). What I wrote in my comments is that the wicked dead do not get an ETERNAL LIFE of torment in Hell (the grave). The souls of the wicked dead are reserved in Hell (the grave) to face God's judgment in the "resurrection to destruction" when they are fated to perish utterly, both body and soul. God "throws the bad away" in the judgment. He does not stage a perpetual hot-dog roast for them throughout eternity.

I'll believe Jesus!

Luke 16:22-26 The rich man died and was buried. 23 And being in torments in Hell, ... 24 Then he cried and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.' 25 But Abraham said, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented.

I am saying the same thing as Jesus.

Not even close!

The verse says this torment was going to be experienced "unto the ages" by #1) the Beast and #2) the False Prophet, and #3) the devil and his angels. And these ages were coming to an end in Paul's days because he wrote that "the ends of the ages" had come upon them by that time (1 Cor. 10:11).

It says "FOREVER and EVER"!

In fact, none of these in this Rev. 20:10 verse have yet died who are suffering torment during this regular "day and night" environment. This "Lake of fire" isn't Hell (the grave), because "day and night" are still operating as usual. Rev. 19:20 says about the Beast and the False Prophet "...these both were cast ALIVE into a lake of fire burning with brimstone." Regardless of who you think they are, they have not yet died before they are cast into this "Lake of fire" environment.

"They will be tormented day and night FOREVER ...

Your concept of the "Lake of fire" needs some serious revision, since it was actually a first-century phenomenon taking place in the city of Jerusalem as it was being burned down for a second time.

If you want to remove "the Lake of Fire" from your Bible, have at it. The penalty is SEVERE, to be kind.

Revelation 22:19
19 If anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

 

[3 Resurrections]

It says "FOREVER and EVER"!

The original Greek in this verse is "eis ton aionon", which means "unto the ages". Ages have ending points. Eternity doesn't. This torment of the devil and his angels and the living Scarlet Beast and False prophet lasted until the ends of the ages, which Paul wrote was finishing up in his own days in 1 Cor. 10:11. I'll stick with Paul and John rather than your own take on these things. And if you have to develop an after-life theory of what happens to the wicked dead by making everything in the Luke 16 parable literal, that's a bit of a stretch. That story was meant to be a condemnation of the corrupt high priesthood of Israel and the covetousness of the house of Annas and all its high priest members.

If you want to remove "the Lake of Fire" from your Bible, have at it. The penalty is SEVERE, to be kind.

I have NOT "removed the Lake of Fire" from my Bible. Contrary to your own personal twist on what you think the Lake of Fire is, I am interpreting what that Lake of Fire was according to John in Revelation 20:14.

The "Lake of Fire" was just another name for the "second death". This was NOT a second death of people, since Hebrews 9:27-28 tells us that "it is appointed unto man ONCE to die, and after this the judgment." The Lake of Fire was the second death of the city of Jerusalem, when Death and Hell (the grave) were thrown into the city to plague the besieged inhabitants for a second time before the city and the temple was burned (comparable to the first death of Jerusalem in 587 BC under the Babylonians).

With your personal interpretation of what the Lake of Fire actually was, you are adding to the words of the book of Revelation, which earns you the curse of Rev. 22:18 when God can add to you the plagues that are written in the book.

 

[Hiddenthings]

Which begs the question:
Did the Apostle Paul believe in a forever burning hell?

No.

 

[3 Resurrections]

You'd better focus on Hell. It's the most important Bible doctrine! That's why Satan sends his messengers here to convince people there's no eternal fire! As we are witnessing right here and now.

That "eternal fire" is in heaven, issuing forth from before the eternal God's throne (as in Daniel 7:10). If you are one of the righteous, you will be enabled to "dwell with the devouring fire" and "dwell with everlasting burnings", face to face with your King in the land that is "very far off", as Isaiah 33:14-17 describes.

 

[Hiddenthings]

That "eternal fire" is in heaven, issuing forth from before the eternal God's throne (as in Daniel 7:10). If you are one of the righteous, you will be enabled to "dwell with the devouring fire" and "dwell with everlasting burnings", face to face with your King in the land that is "very far off", as Isaiah 33:14-17 describes.

Fire is used metaphorically in so many different contexts throughout the Bible that someone as limited as Jack just can’t grasp the meaning. In one conversation, he even admitted to believing that the worms are literal and eternal in nature.

 

[3 Resurrections]

Fire is used metaphorically in so many different contexts throughout the Bible

It sure is. It can represent holiness, judgment, a refining process, the blessing of the Holy Spirit with "tongues of fire" on Pentecost, fiery words coming from a prophet's mouth, the vengeance of God, etc., etc.

 

[Hiddenthings]

You rarely encounter believers who not only read with hyper-literalism but also mix in mythology, it’s a potent combination!

 

[Jack]

The original Greek in this verse is "eis ton aionon", which means "unto the ages".

You want me to list most English translations that say you're WRONG?

Ages have ending points. Eternity doesn't. This torment of the devil and his angels and the living Scarlet Beast and False prophet lasted until the ends of the ages, which Paul wrote was finishing up in his own days in 1 Cor. 10:11. I'll stick with Paul and John rather than your own take on these things. And if you have to develop an after-life theory of what happens to the wicked dead by making everything in the Luke 16 parable literal,

Parables do not use literal Biblical people! Jesus didn't make up horror stories. Luke 16 is FACT.

that's a bit of a stretch. That story was meant to be a condemnation of the corrupt high priesthood of Israel and the covetousness of the house of Annas and all its high priest members.

That's JW argument! 'The Bible doesn't mean what it says'!

I have NOT "removed the Lake of Fire" from my Bible. Contrary to your own personal twist on what you think the Lake of Fire is, I am interpreting what that Lake of Fire was according to John in Revelation 20:14.

The Lake of Fire: self explanatory! Your opinions do not overrule our Bible.

The "Lake of Fire" was just another name for the "second death". This was NOT a second death of people, since Hebrews 9:27-28 tells us that "it is appointed unto man ONCE to die, and after this the judgment." The Lake of Fire was the second death of the city of Jerusalem, when Death and Hell (the grave) were thrown into the city to plague the besieged inhabitants for a second time before the city and the temple was burned (comparable to the first death of Jerusalem in 587 BC under the Babylonians).

'Death' NEVER means 'cease to exist' in the Bible!

With your personal interpretation of what the Lake of Fire actually was, you are adding to the words of the book of Revelation, which earns you the curse of Rev. 22:18 when God can add to you the plagues that are written in the book.

Quoting God is not adding to! You're simply trying to rewrite our Bible to fit YOUR beliefs.

 

[Jack]

That "eternal fire" is in heaven, issuing forth from before the eternal God's throne (as in Daniel 7:10). If you are one of the righteous, you will be enabled to "dwell with the devouring fire" and "dwell with everlasting burnings", face to face with your King in the land that is "very far off", as Isaiah 33:14-17 describes.

Evading the NT! Do you have a clue how many times Jesus warned us of THE FIRE? List them for us.

Satan LOVES it when his messengers convince people that there is no everlasting punishment in Hell!

 

[St. SteVen]

That "eternal fire" is in heaven, issuing forth from before the eternal God's throne (as in Daniel 7:10). If you are one of the righteous, you will be enabled to "dwell with the devouring fire" and "dwell with everlasting burnings", face to face with your King in the land that is "very far off", as Isaiah 33:14-17 describes.

Reminded me of this.

Isaiah 6:6-8 NIV
Then one of the seraphim flew to me
with a live coal in his hand,
which he had taken with tongs from the altar.
7 With it he touched my mouth and said,
“See, this has touched your lips;
your guilt is taken away and your sin atoned for.”
8 Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying,
“Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”