WARNING: Many Who Now Speak SPEAK AGAINST THE HOLY SPIRIT.

[MatthewG]

Human beings are fallible...

Ask God for wisdom. I believe the holy spirit of God will help you in producing the fruits of the Lord Jesus Christ, as well as lead you to truth as least as possibly close as you can get.

People can believe and have all sorts of ideas, however, the things of man do not pertain to the things of God....

So... one has to be discerning... Ill tell you this much.

You are not saved by believing what some preacher preaches at some church, or what ever else anyone else may say.

 

[Behold]

You are not saved by believing what some preacher preaches at some church, or what ever else anyone else may say.

Actually you are saved by hearing the preaching-teaching of the Gospel, if you believe it.
This may occur in a Local Church, or it can occur whereever you hear THe Gospel and believe it.

"Faith comes by HEARING". = The Gospel, so, this means it has to be delivered so that you can hear it and believe it.

A PREACHER is a good example of someone who shares or preaches or teaches The Gospel, for anyone who hears it to believe it.

 

[MatthewG]

Actually you are saved by hearing the preaching-teaching of the Gospel, if you believe it.
This may occur in a Local Church, or it can occur whereever you hear THe Gospel and believe it.

"Faith comes by HEARING". = The Gospel, so, this means it has to be delivered so that you can hear it and believe it.

A PREACHER is a good example of someone who shares or preaches or teaches The Gospel, for anyone who hears it to believe it.

Yep, but they are still fallible and should encourage the people that are listening to them, to check things out for themselves.

And you also have to consider the history and things... thats why...

Sure you can hear the Gospel but that doesn't mean everything coming from the pulpit is even true.

 

[MatthewG]

@Behold, there are people out there whom are held up like they were Jesus himself... but at the end of the day. People must think, choose, and actively have their relationship with God, despite religion or whatever else people teach or preach, if they are a seeker of truth, God will get them to the truth as closes as possible one can get it.


Thats why I dont care much for "early church fathers and stuff like that." Sure they lived in the early ads, or whatever."

However, the real Father is the Father in heaven whom adopts people to become his children.

 

[Behold]

Yep, but they are still fallible and should encourage the people that are listening to them, to check things out for themselves.

If someone is Teaching and noone is checking it out in a Bible, then that's a problem.

But there is another issue also.......
Which is....If a person does not understand some fundamentals of the Faith, such as.

"imputed righteousness"

"Gift of Salvation"..

Romans 3:21- 28"

"Grace through Faith"

What it actually means to be born again.........

So, if a person is really not SURE of any of that, or if they have already been mislead into false doctrines... then when someone is teaching them perfect NT Theology as Paul delivered it, then its going to sound FALSE to this person.

THis is why its so important to exablish your heart with God's Grace.. Heb 13:9 (KJV) early in your Christian walk.. ...so that you understand The Cross of CHrist as the "Gift of Salvation"..........before the person runs into so much false doctrine that is waiting to ruin them.
And you can't find more false doctrine then is up and running then you will find on Most Christian Forums.

 

[MatthewG]

I dont think they need to understand all those things to be born again....

All one has to do is believe on Jesus, and they are able to become adopted as Children of God.

Just knowing the death, burial, and resurrection and having faith in that, and having an active relationship with God is good enough to please God.

So... We might just differ there.

 

[Behold]

@Behold, there are people out there whom are held up like they were Jesus himself..

Many Christians are mislead by clever devils,.....thats true.

The best American Pastors, who were "on TV" are all dead.

THere is a pretty good one........for the most part............still breathing...........= David Jeremiah.

David has almost no "calvinism"....in his theology, so, He's a pretty safe bet.

Otherwise, i tell my students to find the Videos of these contemporary American preachers, simply because they are not Calvinists, and they have a deep understanding of God's Grace.

James Kennedy
Adrain Rogers.
Lloyd Olgivie

, if they are a seeker of truth, God will get them to the truth as closes as possible one can get it.

Well.. God calls Pastors< Prophets, Apostles, Evangelists, and Teachers........and gives them to the church for "the perfecting of their faith".

The Devil also sends in His, to blind the minds of people to keep them from trusting in Christ or, to ruin their faith after they do.

 

[MatthewG]

Many Christians are mislead by clever devils,.....thats true.

The best American Pastors, who were "on TV" are all dead.

THere is a pretty good one........for the most part............still breathing...........= David Jeremiah.

David has almost no "calvinism"....in his theology, so, He's a pretty safe bet.

Otherwise, i tell my students to find the Videos of these preachers, simply because they are not Calvinists, and they have a deep understanding of God's Grace.

James Kennedy
Adrain Rogers.
Lloyd Olgivie





Well.. God calls Pastors< Prophets, Apostles, Evangelists, and Teachers........and gives them to the church for "the perfecting of their faith".

The Devil also sends in His, to blind the minds of people to keep them from trusting in Christ or, to ruin their faith after they do.

Yeah blame the devil. LOL. I don't believe the devil is around. Jesus put him to death.

Why can't you just point out that there are people who are preaching Christ that are sincere-hearted and also out of rivarly?

Philippians 1:15 states that some preach Christ out of envy and rivalry, while others do so with good will and good motives.

 

[Behold]

Yeah blame the devil. LOL. I don't believe the devil is around. Jesus put him to death.

The Devil is not dead

Paul faced Him....wrote about it.

We dont generally actaully meet the Devil, we meet his minions, the demonic spirits, or we meet his Ministers.

Why can't you just point out that there are people who are preaching Christ that are sincere-hearted and also out of rivarly?

If Christ is being "Preached".........the NT says that its a good thing, even if the messenger is way too flawed.

 

[MatthewG]

The Devil is not dead

Paul faced Him....wrote about it.

We dont generally actaully meet the Devil, we meet his minions, the demonic spirits, or we meet his Ministers.



If Christ is being "Preached".........the NT says that its a good thing, even if the messenger is way too flawed.

The rivarly would be towards those who were following the law?
those with good motives, would be to understanding of how Jesus fulfilled it?
Revelation states Devil is done for, so I digress, cause so many people love to keep the devil around, and alive.
So they always have someone to blame rather than themselves and their own choices and actions.

 

[ScottA]

@Behold
@MatthewG

I like a lot of what you both have just posted, both are good and important. I suppose this thread is to bring attention to both. Both indeed are useful and appreciated.

The greatest thing I see falling short is what also happened with Israel, killing the prophets and quenching the Spirit, and forgetting that God is working by both means and does not change. In fact the New Testament reminds us of these various means and gifts, and even offices. Yet among both church goers and non-church goers, there is an obvious deep set defense, if not jealousy or hatred, against specific parts like "some prophets" even being legitimate. Some even have made up their own doctrine against things outlined in scripture. Some rampant right here on the forum.

Thus the warning.

 

[amigo de christo]

Yep, but they are still fallible and should encourage the people that are listening to them, to check things out for themselves.

And you also have to consider the history and things... thats why...

Sure you can hear the Gospel but that doesn't mean everything coming from the pulpit is even true.

All things a man says must be examined . but not by feelings , not by emotions
but by the TRUTH recorded in scripture .
SO in case , LOL , i have not reminded us , OH TIS BIBLE TIME IN THE HOUSE for to learn and to grow .

 

[amigo de christo]

@Behold
@MatthewG

I like a lot of what you both have just posted, both are good and important. I suppose this thread is to bring attention to both. Both indeed are useful and appreciated.

The greatest thing I see falling short is what also happened with Israel, killing the prophets and quenching the Spirit, and forgetting that God is working by both means and does not change. In fact the New Testament reminds us of these various means and gifts, and even offices. Yet among both church goers and non-church goers, there is an obvious deep set defense, if not jealousy or hatred, against specific parts like "some prophets" even being legitimate. Some even have made up their own doctrine against things outlined in scripture. Some rampant right here on the forum.

Thus the warning.

because many learned the doctrines of men .
Used under the guise it was of scipture , yet it was TWISTED unto them .
Many go all out to defend the truth of their denomination , pastor , greek , hermes , exegigs
But have no idea they defending TWISTED D OCTRINES of men gone wrong and boy do i mean gone wrong .
THEN you got the others
who always cliam to be spirtual and though they might warn against some of these ,
THEY lead this people into only greater darkness .
DID i fail to mention , ITS BIBLE TIME . IF SO , ALLOW ME TO SAY IT , OH YEAH ITS BIBLE TIME .
time to learn for ourselves .

 

[Behold]

. Some even have made up their own doctrine against things outlined in scripture.

Yes, lets look at the "some who have made their own doctrine, against things outlined in Scripture".


1.) MaryCult

2.) Mormons

3.) JWs

4.) Calvinists

5.) Preterism

6.) Christian Science

7.) 45,000 world wide denominations, prove that there is a lot of "man made up"... doctrines, pretending to be Christianity.

You can find a lot of those here on this forum.

 

[MatthewG]

@Behold
@MatthewG

I like a lot of what you both have just posted, both are good and important. I suppose this thread is to bring attention to both. Both indeed are useful and appreciated.

The greatest thing I see falling short is what also happened with Israel, killing the prophets and quenching the Spirit, and forgetting that God is working by both means and does not change. In fact the New Testament reminds us of these various means and gifts, and even offices. Yet among both church goers and non-church goers, there is an obvious deep set defense, if not jealousy or hatred, against specific parts like "some prophets" even being legitimate. Some even have made up their own doctrine against things outlined in scripture. Some rampant right here on the forum.

Thus the warning.

Oh well. It's God that is mad, or just people mad at other people cause they might believe a certain way.

Cause some people say God is still angry today, while I do not believe that is true.

After all God sees the heart of people...

 

[ScottA]

Yes, lets look at the "some who have made their own doctrine, against things outlined in Scripture".


1.) MaryCult

2.) Mormons

3.) JWs

4.) Calvinists

5.) Preterism

6.) Christian Science

7.) 45,000 world wide denominations, prove that there is a lot of "man made up"... doctrines, pretending to be Christianity.

You can find a lot of those here on this forum.

True...but I would say that God has as much as allowed those infractions for a purpose ("for good"). That having revealed almost everything at the time of Christ, that we should all be held off the knowledge of "all truth" "until the times of the gentiles are fulfilled. "

What I have been getting at here, although it occurs by the same errors in doctrine, is that the finish of revelations should not be stopped by the same errors, but should, by God, make it through the mess of previous errors.

 

[ShineTheLight]

The rivarly would be towards those who were following the law?
those with good motives, would be to understanding of how Jesus fulfilled it?
Revelation states Devil is done for, so I digress, cause so many people love to keep the devil around, and alive.
So they always have someone to blame rather than themselves and their own choices and actions.

You're wrong.

I don't agree with a lot of things that Behold says. But on this matter, I will agree with him.

 

[MatthewG]

You're wrong.

I don't agree with a lot of things that Behold says. But on this matter, I will agree with him.

Good, I'm wrong all the time according to people. Who cares? Lol... Just glad you decided to voice your opinion out there lady.

 

[Behold]

True...but I would say that God has as much as allowed those infractions for a purpose ("for good").

The Devil creates false doctrine that creates, sustains, and spreads cults.
So, there would be no need for God to allow it, unless God wants people to be deceived by what the Devil Creates.
God is not in the deceiving business.

God does not allow the MaryCult or the JW cult to exist so that the people in it can be deceived until they die.
THat's the devil's work and God is not in that work.

And yes....In a Chritians life, God works it all out for good, eventually.....but in the case of a choice to do something wrong........while its true that God will work it out for good given time, that does not meand that the choice didn't destroy your life, or your family on the way there.

"God working all things out for good".....only means..as much as possible, if you've done something that has burned your life to the ground.
So, in this case, God can repaire and heal, but the restoration is going to be related to the consequence.

 

[ScottA]

The Devil creates false doctrine that creates, sustains, and spreads cults.
So, there would be no need for God to allow it, unless God wants people to be deceived by what the Devil Creates.
God is not in the deceiving business.

True enough, but that is what is written:
"And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness."