Can One Be Christian and Not Believe In The Trinity?

[Wrangler]

The title CHRSITIAN implies orthodox Christian.

Maybe no.

 

[Wrangler]

A mere man cannot save mankind .

Denial of agents and agency.

A mere man cannot free the Hebrews from Egypt. It was God working through a man.

 

[amigo de christo]

Denial of agents and agency.

A mere man cannot free the Hebrews from Egypt. It was God working through a man.

while GOD often used men to do such things . Like moses to lead the peoples out .
Like gideon , like david , like many others ,
That was from the bondage of man . NOT SIN .
ONLY GOD can do that . cause as we all know Even moses , even david
And all the good they did amen . I dont think they were totally without sin .
DO YOU .
ONLY GOD can set man free from THE DEATH , the DEATH OF SIN .
So lets sing a song of victory UNTO GOD shall we . And let us not
DENY THAT THE WORD is GOD as the scriptures make very clear .
AS far as totally understanding it , OF course i wont condemn folks .
BUT FOR TWISTING THE SCRIPS , OH they condemn themselves .
LETS NOT DENY that GOD IS HIS WORD . okay . And that HIS WORD did become flesh . OKAY .

 

[HealthyShape]

[2Ki 17:33-34 KJV] 33 They feared the LORD, and served their own gods, after the manner of the nations whom they carried away from thence. 34 Unto this day they do after the former manners: they fear not the LORD, neither do they after their statutes, or after their ordinances, or after the law and commandment which the LORD commanded the children of Jacob, whom he named Israel.

First, they fear God then they don't; but the NT contradicts this implying they always did. This proves they were idolaters, at least.

This is not any proof that the Samaritan from the Jesus' story was an idolater.

 

[Aunty Jane]

ONLY GOD can set man free from THE DEATH , the DEATH OF SIN .

Yes, and that is why God “sent” his son....because as an immortal, God cannot die.
If Jesus did not die the same death as Adam, then the redemption is not complete and we are still condemned in our sins.
Can mere humans kill God?

So lets sing a song of victory UNTO GOD shall we . And let us not
DENY THAT THE WORD is GOD as the scriptures make very clear .

I have to correct you Amigo....you want us to sing a song of victory to God, and yet you have adopted a god that Jesus never knew....one created by the RCC. I know you reject much of their teachings, so why accept this one?....or hellfire? Neither are Scriptural.

“The Word became flesh”, but the Word is not “ho theos” (Yahweh)...he is just “theos” meaning that he is God’s “divine” son...”the beginning of God’s creation”. (Rev 3:14) He is God’s spokesman, and our King and Redeemer....the one who is appointed to lead us back to God....the perfect mediator.

AS far as totally understanding it , OF course i wont condemn folks .
BUT FOR TWISTING THE SCRIPS , OH they condemn themselves .

You’re not wrong.....if “the church” (a counterfeit sown by the devil as Jesus said) gradually introduced a new god, one completely alien to the one Jesus came to represent, then all of Christendom has been persuaded to worship the wrong “theos”.... putting the son in his Father’s place.
If those who worship this god are breaking the first Commandment, then that makes them “lawless” in God’s eyes.....which is why Jesus will say.....”I never knew you...depart from me you who practice lawlessness”. (Matt 7:21-23)
When Jesus comes to pass judgment on those who claim him as their “Lord”, it’s the majority whom he rejects, so what belief do the majority hold in common? A primary doctrine that finds no place in Scripture.

LETS NOT DENY that GOD IS HIS WORD . okay . And that HIS WORD did become flesh . OKAY .

If you think the Word is God, then it is all who believe that, who deny that God is who he said he is....the only eternal Being in existence.....and that we can have “no other gods but Yahweh”, who showed himself to be to be THE God of Israel (Deut 6:4)....a singular entity who would send his Messiah to rescue his people first, from sin and death....and thereafter to resurrect all the dead so that under the rule of God’s Kingdom, God’s will can then “be done on earth as it is in heaven”. What have we been praying for all this time?

God never said he was coming in person, because that is something else God cannot do....to be in his presence would mean what God told Moses....”no man may see me and yet live”. When you understand what a powerful Being Yahweh is, we cannot even look at our sun, (which is just a small one compared to others in the universe)...without doing damage to our eyes. God’s glory would blind us and consume our lives....this is why those who are called to heaven must be given appropriate spirit bodies to dwell with Christ, in the presence of God.

John 1:18 says that “no man has ever seen God”, which contradicts John 1:1, so where is the mistake?
It’s not in the Scripture, but in how John 1:1 is interpreted.
Jesus is God-like...divine in his origins, “the image of the invisible God”. (Col 1:15)...which, if you think about it, who can be the image of someone who is invisible? An image is a reflection, not the real thing.

When you understand that only God is called “ho theos” in the Greek Scriptures, and that Jesus never is, it differentiates the divine son, who was “sent” by his Almighty Father....who is “the Most High over all the earth”. (Psalm 83:18 KJV) Only Yahweh is the Almighty.

The Bible speaks freely of “God the Father” but there is not a single mention of “God the Son” or ”God the Holy Spirit”.....the reason being that they did not exist then and do not exist now.

 

[HealthyShape]

Not once in Scripture is “God the Son.” Every epistle states “God the Father.” Every epistle. What does that tell you?

That if there is "God the Father", then there is also "God the Son". Can you guess who that is?

 

[TrevorHL]

Greetings HealthyShape,

That if there is "God the Father", then there is also "God the Son". Can you guess how that is?

Very poor logic. God the Father is called Father because he is the One God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, and he is also our father by means of our adoption through Christ, and we are invited to address him as "Our Father"

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[HealthyShape]

Greetings HealthyShape,

Very poor logic. God the Father is called Father because he is the One God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, and he is also our father by means of our adoption through Christ, and we are invited to address him as "Our Father"

Kind regards
Trevor

It is not a poor logic just because it does not fit your logic. God the Father has God the Son.

Jesus is the Son of God/Father and also God.

No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.
J 1:18

 

[TrevorHL]

Greetings again HealthyShape,

God the Father has God the Son.

When did God the Father have or has God the Son? When did God the Father beget God the Son? Scripture please. Did God the Father create another God?

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[HealthyShape]

Greetings again HealthyShape,

When did God the Father have or has God the Son? When did God the Father beget God the Son? Scripture please. Did God the Father create another God?

Kind regards
Trevor

I quoted it in my post! So, again:

No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.
J 1:18

If you are asking explicitly "when", then "in the beginning" - J 1:1.

 

[TrevorHL]

Greetings again HealthyShape,

I quoted it in my post! So, again:
No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.
J 1:18

What translation are you using? I prefer the KJV rendition as being correct.
John 1:18 (KJV): No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

If you are asking explicitly "when", then "in the beginning" - J 1:1.

Exactly what happened in the beginning? John 1:1 does not explain this.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[HealthyShape]

Greetings again HealthyShape,

What translation are you using? I prefer the KJV rendition as being correct.
John 1:18 (KJV): No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

NIV. You can use any other translation that is based upon older manuscripts than the KJV is. KJV got this text wrong.

No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father’s side, he has made him known.
ESV

No one has seen God at any time; God the only Son, who is in the arms of the Father, He has explained Him.
NASB

No one has ever seen God. The unique God, who is close to the Father's side, has revealed him.
ISV

etc.

Exactly what happened in the beginning? John 1:1 does not explain this.

You asked "when", not "what". It is a mystery how the Son proceeds exactly from the Father. It is not something a human can understand, obviously.

What was revealed to us: The Word/Logos was God and existed with God since the beginning. The Logos came/descended from heaven, from the Father's presence and dwell among people until ascension.

This is all Christianity 101.

 

[Berean]

Who was the New Testament written by?

Men, Inspired by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Berean]

No.
Jesus being just a man is not a Christian idea and will NEVER be accepted by Christianity.
JESUS IS GOD.

I believe while on earth, Jesus was just a man, NOT a man-god.

If a person does not believe Jesus is God then he belongs to a religion,,,but not the Christian religion which has already been established as to what one MUST believe in order to be considered of that faith.

I don't belong to a religion, I belong to the Lord

 

[Berean]

You claimed Arianism is a Christian concept. However, in Christianity, Jesus is worshiped (even by angels) and only God can be worshiped.

Arianisms, last time I checked, says that Jesus is not God.

And that's exactly what the scriptures teach, Jesus is NOT God Almighty

 

[HealthyShape]

And that's exactly what the scriptures teach, Jesus is NOT God Almighty

It seems you did not read the Bible.

Jesus is God:
"No one has ever yet seen God. The only begotten God, the One being in the bosom of the Father, He has made Him known."
J 1:18

"Theirs [Jews] are the patriarchs, and from them proceeds the human descent of Christ, who is God over all, forever worthy of praise! Amen."
R 9:5

"...awaiting the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ."
Titus 2:13

Jesus is almighty:
“All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me”
Matthew 28:18

“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”
Revelation 1:8

----

FYI, per the updated forum rules, you are not allowed to use the "Christian" label and dispute Trinity, anymore.

 

[TrevorHL]

Greetings again HealthyShape,

NIV. You can use any other translation that is based upon older manuscripts than the KJV is. KJV got this text wrong.

One or the other is erroneous. I suggest the KJV is correct as it makes sense while the modern renditions are contradictory.

You asked "when", not "what". It is a mystery how the Son proceeds exactly from the Father. It is not something a human can understand, obviously.
.... This is all Christianity 101.

I prefer a God who has revealed himself and can be understood.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Aunty Jane]

It is not a poor logic just because it does not fit your logic. God the Father has God the Son.

No Scripture says in any verse...”God the Son” or “God the Holy Spirit”...but many times calls Yahweh “God the Father.”
Poor logic does not describe anything God says, or does, or is....
He is the one who calls Jesus his “only begotten son” and why Jesus calls the one who begat him, “Father”.
Can you tell me who begat God?

Col 1:15, calls the son “the firstborn of all creation”, which makes him part of that creation.
Rev 3:14 calls him “the beginning of God’s creation”....so there is your “beginning”.

Jesus is the Son of God/Father and also God.

So Jesus is his own Father? Who was Jesus praying to in the garden on the night of his arrest? Whose will was Jesus asking to be done? His own or his Father’s? Can one God have a will different to his other self?
Do we have any Scripture that has the Father praying to Jesus or the Holy Spirit as they are all supposed to be equally, one God?
Your statement above makes absolutely no sense. Nor does it have Scriptural backing.

No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.
J 1:18

Look at the first part of that verse.....if “no one has ever seen God”, then Jesus isn’t God. Thousands of people saw Jesus.
That is a very bad translation because the word “son” is not there in Greek.

The Mounce Interlinear show us exactly how the Scripture is manipulated by trinitarians to say what it never did....

John 1:18 “No one oudeis has horaō ever pōpote seen horaō God theos. The only monogenēs Son, himself God theos, the ho one who is eimi in eis the ho bosom kolpos of the ho Father patēr, he ekeinos has made him known ”
The red is the Greek...what is underlined in bold is what is not there in the Greek. There is no “son” (huios) in that verse. “Monogenes theos” means “only begotten god”.....which is why John 1:1 calls Jesus “theos”, but not “ho theos” which is Yahweh. Theos can be used in reference to any god or goddess or divinely authorised person. The judges in Israel were called “gods” by Yahweh himself as Jesus said and then he said who he was.....

John 10:31-36...
“The Jews picked up stones again to stone Him. Jesus answered them, “I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?” The Jews answered Him, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God.” Jesus answered them, “Has it not been written in your Law, ‘I said you are gods ’? If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken), do you say of Him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’? (NASB)
There was a perfect opportunity for Jesus to ‘fess up’ and say “yes I am God”...but he didn’t. He is what he called himself....”I am the son of God”.

In Greek this shows where “theos” and “ho theos” indicate where Yahweh’s name should be used.

Jesus’ works were from the Father....why? If he was God in the flesh, why weren’t his works his own?
And if the three parts of God can be in three different places at the same time, and can speak to each other, that does not indicate one being, but three separate gods. Disguised polytheism.

Interlinear translations reveal a lot about the beliefs of the translator....bias is evident there, and tampering with God’s word is treading on dangerous ground.

 

[HealthyShape]

Greetings again HealthyShape,

One or the other is erroneous. I suggest the KJV is correct as it makes sense while the modern renditions are contradictory.

You are wrong.

I prefer a God who has revealed himself and can be understood.

That's a pity, because the true God cannot be fully understood by humans. It is a completely different level of existence/being.

 

[HealthyShape]

No Scripture says in any verse...”God the Son” or “God the Holy Spirit”...but many times calls Yahweh “God the Father.”
Poor logic does not describe anything God says, or does, or is....
He is the one who calls Jesus his “only begotten son” and why Jesus calls the one who begat him, “Father”.
Can you tell me who begat God?

Col 1:15, calls the son “the firstborn of all creation”, which makes him part of that creation.
Rev 3:14 calls him “the beginning of God’s creation”....so there is your “beginning”.

So Jesus is his own Father? Who was Jesus praying to in the garden on the night of his arrest? Whose will was Jesus asking to be done? His own or his Father’s? Can one God have a will different to his other self?
Do we have any Scripture that has the Father praying to Jesus or the Holy Spirit as they are all supposed to be equally, one God?
Your statement above makes absolutely no sense. Nor does it have Scriptural backing.

Look at the first part of that verse.....if “no one has ever seen God”, then Jesus isn’t God. Thousands of people saw Jesus.
That is a very bad translation because the word “son” is not there in Greek.

The Mounce Interlinear show us exactly how the Scripture is manipulated by trinitarians to say what it never did....

John 1:18 “No one oudeis has horaō ever pōpote seen horaō God theos. The only monogenēs Son, himself God theos, the ho one who is eimi in eis the ho bosom kolpos of the ho Father patēr, he ekeinos has made him known ”
The red is the Greek...what is underlined in bold is what is not there in the Greek. There is no “son” (huios) in that verse. “Monogenes theos” means “only begotten god”.....which is why John 1:1 calls Jesus “theos”, but not “ho theos” which is Yahweh. Theos can be used in reference to any god or goddess or divinely authorised person. The judges in Israel were called “gods” by Yahweh himself as Jesus said and then he said who he was.....

John 10:31-36...
“The Jews picked up stones again to stone Him. Jesus answered them, “I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?” The Jews answered Him, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God.” Jesus answered them, “Has it not been written in your Law, ‘I said you are gods ’? If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken), do you say of Him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’? (NASB)
There was a perfect opportunity for Jesus to ‘fess up’ and say “yes I am God”...but he didn’t. He is what he called himself....”I am the son of God”.

In Greek this shows where “theos” and “ho theos” indicate where Yahweh’s name should be used.

Jesus’ works were from the Father....why? If he was God in the flesh, why weren’t his works his own?
And if the three parts of God can be in three different places at the same time, and can speak to each other, that does not indicate one being, but three separate gods. Disguised polytheism.

Interlinear translations reveal a lot about the beliefs of the translator....bias is evident there, and tampering with God’s word is treading on dangerous ground.

I am not interested in a bulk of a Jehovah Witness nonsense. One claim/sentence, maybe, but not these bulks of Jehovah Witness claims and errors.