Reason for The Crusades explained

[Matthias]

Since the Crusades were a Catholic affair, it makes sense that we should turn to Catholic sources to read about them. This Catholic source does a good job describing the atrocities committed by the Crusaders.

What really happened during the Crusades?

Most often we associate the term “Crusades” with an effort by the European Christians of the Middle Ages…

www.oursundayvisitor.com

P.S.

Had the non-trinitarian @Wrangler been there, and if he was fortunate, benevolent Crusaders might have offered him a choice between recanting and returning to Catholicism / trinitarianism or being put to death.

Assuming the best case scenario (i.e. the Crusaders offered him a choice), would he choose to recant or would he choose to be slain by the Crusaders? (And if he chose not to recant, would he go down killing and wounding as many Crusaders as he could or would he lay down his weapon and submit to being executed by them?)

I could be wrong but I think he would kill and wound as many of the Crusaders as he possibly could before they finished him off. I don’t see him returning to Catholicism or becoming a trinitarian.

 

[Matthias]

Why not ask AI for the atrocities the Crusaders were reacting to?

I just did. I won’t waste your time quoting everything AI said about their atrocities (since you already exhibit an awareness of them). I used the search terms “Were atrocities committed by Muslims at the time of the Crusades?” and here is what I received -

“Yes, atrocities were committed by Muslims during the Crusades, just as they were by Christians, as brutal warfare was common to all sides in the medieval era.

Examples of atrocities committed by Muslims include: …”

Again, while I don’t trust AI, I think it did a credible job documenting Muslim atrocities. I continue to encourage people to read the history for themselves, not to rely solely on AI.

 

[Aunty Jane]

It is very obvious that the mind set of those who claim to be “Christians” but who prove false to it in their attitudes and actions, will need more than the evidence provided in Scripture to dissuade them from the violence and retaliatory mindset and actions of the world.

What Jesus said of the Pharisees, we see being echoed here....

“And he called the people to him and said to them, “Hear and understand: it is not what goes into the mouth that defiles a person, but what comes out of the mouth; this defiles a person.” Then the disciples came and said to him, “Do you know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this saying?” He answered, “Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be rooted up. Let them alone; they are blind guides. And if the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a pit.”. . . .Do you not see that whatever goes into the mouth passes into the stomach and is expelled? But what comes out of the mouth proceeds from the heart, and this defiles a person. For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false witness, slander. These are what defile a person”. (Matt 15: 10-20 ESV)

Jesus will tell us all soon enough if we have passed the test of our “Christianity” and whether we have ‘entered the narrow gate and are travelling the difficult road to life’......if we have obeyed him in all things....or if we have treated his God as some impotent fool who need them to rescue humanity.....by becoming the same as their perceived enemies....”returning evil for evil”.

God’s permission of wicked men has a purpose that seems to elude the masses. He has said that vengeance belongs to Him, not us. (Rom 12:17-21) We are not to take up carnal weapons as we have something more powerful.....”the sword of the spirit” and the best armor in the world. Our actions are defensive not aggressive. We will take a bullet for someone...but we will never fire one.

Matt 16:25-27 ESV...Jesus said....
“For whoever would save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? Or what shall a man give in return for his soul? For the Son of Man is going to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay each person according to what he has done.”

They will not be left in any doubt about God’s power to intervene, when Christ arrives as judge.
Jesus never said that we have any part in the administration of his justice.....he has angelic forces for that.

 

[Matthias]

Don’t kill your enemies; witness to them.

Jesus, the apostles, and the early Christians didn’t kill their enemies; they witnessed to them. Who cares if those who would kill their enemies say you are “over-spiritualized”?

While they’re busy killing their enemies and teaching others to do the same, we’re to be busy witnessing to our enemies and teaching others to do the same.

We who “don’t use the weapons of the world” aren’t seeking the approval or praise of those who do.

 

[David in NJ]

I had always heard about The Crusades in a negative way. But in this video, Bob from Speaker's Corner in London, explains why The Crusades started. They were in response to centuries of Islamic invasion of many Christian countries.

WOW = AWESOME = TRUTH ALWAYS PREVAILS

Big Thank You Debp

 

[Matthias]

WOW = AWESOME = TRUTH ALWAYS PREVAILS

Big Thank You Debp

You’re a former Catholic. Would you do today what the Crusaders did in their day?

Would you return to the Catholic church if an old Crusader showed up (impossible, but let’s pretend that it is) and gave you a choice between returning to the Catholic church or being slain by the Crusader?

 

[David in NJ]

The Crusaders hated their enemies - Muslims and Jews. Had I lived in those times and come into contact with the Crusaders, they would have murdered me. The Crusaders committed atrocities, just as the Muslims did.

The Muslims didn’t leave vengeance to God. The Crusaders didn’t leave vengeance to God. Neither the Muslims nor the Crusaders acted like Jesus. Neither the Muslims nor the Crusaders obeyed the teaching of Jesus.

I’m not defending or condoning the acts of the Muslims, but neither am I defending or condoning the acts of the Crusaders.

Simple = God hates wickedness and will raise up armies to judge the armies of wickedness

God has done this throughout history for it is HIS DOMAIN and AUTHORITY to DO SO = the Jewish people know this well.

The one thing we here on earth DO NOT want is for GOD Himself to Descend for Judgment = Noah , Sodom and Gomorrah

 

[David in NJ]

You’re a former Catholic. Would you do today what the Crusaders did in their day?

Would you return to the Catholic church if an old Crusader showed up (impossible, but let’s pretend that it is) and gave you a choice between returning to the Catholic church or being slain by the Crusader?

Post 287

 

[Matthias]

Simple = God hates wickedness and will raise up armies to judge the armies of wickedness

I think we can make a good case for that.

God has done this throughout history for it is HIS DOMAIN and AUTHORITY to DO SO = the Jewish people know this well.

Yes. God sent the Babylonians, the Assyrians and other pagans against them.

The one thing we here on earth DO NOT want is for GOD Himself to Descend for Judgment = Noah , Sodom and Gomorrah

 

[Matthias]

Post 287

That post, as best I can tell, didn’t answer the questions I posed in post #286.

 

[David in NJ]

That post, as best I can tell, didn’t answer the questions I posed in post #286.

i wrote that post just before i read your question to me.

SHALOM in YAHshua HaMashiach

 

[Matthias]

i wrote that post just before i read your question to me.

SHALOM in YAHshua HaMashiach

Thanks. What is your response to the questions in post #286 now?

 

[David in NJ]

You’re a former Catholic. Would you do today what the Crusaders did in their day?

Would you return to the Catholic church if an old Crusader showed up (impossible, but let’s pretend that it is) and gave you a choice between returning to the Catholic church or being slain by the Crusader?

Today, if the muslims, or other, that are growing nearby were to rise up and come to attack my family, i would
absolutely invoke our US Constitutional governing authority to repell them with all means at my disposal.

 

[Matthias]

Today, if the muslims, or other, that are growing nearby were to rise up and come to attack my family, i would
absolutely invoke our US Constitutional governing authority to repell them with all means at my disposal.

So the US Constitutional authority (which would grant you an exemption if you were a CO) is greater than Paul’s authority when he said “We do not use the weapons of the world”?

And if the ghost of a Crusader showed up and gave you a choice between returning to the Catholic church or submit to him killing you, you would do what?

 

[Matthias]

… with all means at my disposal.

I’m going to lay a little Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego on us. They resisted evil (without taking all means at their disposal) and were thrown into a fiery furnace. Would you be able to do what they did?

Have you read Maccabees?

 

[Matthias]

Have you read Maccabees?

2 Maccabees, CHAPTER 7

Daily Bible Readings, Podcast Audio and Videos and Prayers brought to you by the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops.

bible.usccb.org

A Crusader wouldn’t have done / wouldn’t do what this Jewish mother and her seven sons did when confronting evil.

Nor would a Crusader have done / wouldn’t do what the Messiah, the apostles, and the early Christians did when confronting evil.

 

[David in NJ]

So the US Constitutional authority (which would grant you an exemption if you were a CO) is greater than Paul’s authority when he said “We do not use the weapons of the world”?

And if the ghost of a Crusader showed up and gave you a choice between returning to the Catholic church or submit to him killing you, you would do what?

Easy answers but i am busy at the moment = be back later

 

[David in NJ]

I’m going to lay a little Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego on us. They resisted evil (without taking all means at their disposal) and were thrown into a fiery furnace. Would you be able to do what they did?

Have you read Maccabees?

Easy verbal answers but i am busy at the moment = be back later

 

[Matthias]

Ignoring the constraint of history, that wouldn’t have happened to a Crusader. He would have gone down killing and maiming as many of his enemies as possible before being killed on the battlefield.

A Crusader wasn’t / isn’t interested in “We don’t use the weapons of the world”. He did (and modern day Crusaders would) use them. Those who listen to Jesus and Paul weren’t Crusaders; they were sheep for the slaughter.

 

[Matthias]

IF we could go back in time and give the Crusaders a modern day theme song, this would be most fitting. They would have loved it.

P.S.

This is also known as the Slit Throat.

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