Reason for The Crusades explained

[Aunty Jane]

@Wrangler....the world will do what the world will do.....with God’s permission. Nothing takes place that he is unaware of, or that he cannot handle. He gives Christians no sanction for violence, but personal self defence is another matter. We do what we must under the circumstances.....

As we see in the case of Job, God has reasons for allowing bad things to happen to good people....in the big picture, nothing any human can do is impossible for God to undo. This is why he can allow humans to behave in an inhuman way to provocation. Self-control is a fruit of God’s spirit.
We are not permitted to take the law into our own hands. What the nations do politically is none of our business. The Crusades were religious as well as political. The fact that so called Christians participated in the slaughter negated the name they carried. You cannot serve the “Prince of Peace” with carnal weapons. We have more powerful ones.

It’s how we behave under provocation that determines whether we are obedient to God and his Christ...or obedient to the god of this world?
We can let the world do what it does without our support or action. As Christians we must be completely neutral. Our conscience must object to war and the atrocities that are always committed.

Only genuine Christians can put aside their feelings and act the way Christ commanded......he commanded no one to shed blood....love kills hate.....because those who disobey the Christ will not have God’s support or favour.....showing that they cannot do as they are told, if they think it’s a good idea to disobey the only authority that is supreme......isn’t that what happened in Eden?

The world and it’s governments are not our supreme authority....we have a higher authority to obey.

 

[Matthias]

I'm asking a question. Care to answer it? What is your principle objection to the Crusades? (A or B is preferred answer than over-spiritualized gobbledygook.)

A. The Crusaders took it too far in committing atrocities.​

B. The Christians initiated the Crusades.​

Neither A nor B.

 

[Matthias]

It's easy to deny an identification and speak in negation until it is held up to scrutiny. What is your acceptance criteria; what would someone who is over-spiritualized look like?

 

[Wrangler]

He gives Christians no sanction for violence

Wrong. Absolutely wrong. I provided numerous verses providing sanction on both an individual and corporate level. Your pacifist world view is just in denial of the sanction given. You and @Matthias are fanatically opposed to the soulful commands of Scripture.

Beyond Scripture, see generations of Christians somehow finding the sanction you deny at Battle or Tours 732, Malta 1283, Reconquista 1492, Great Siege of Malta 1565, WWI. Now in 21st century, over-spiritualized Christians make claims that have no basis in fact, Scripture or history.

 

[Triumph1300]

As Christians we must be completely neutral.

Should we not form an opinion and judge righteously?

 

[Triumph1300]

Scripture or history.

History is not always according to scripture.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Should we not form an opinion and judge righteously?

About politics...no! Because of who is ruling the politics. (1 John 5:19) There are no good guys in politics. Only evil people and deluded ones, who think that they can fix what is broken....they never have and never will. Only God can fix this world and we should let him.

History is not always according to scripture.

The Bible is history....prophesy is history written in advance....and what we need to know, God tells us.

Christ did not teach political involvement in a political environment that was oppressing his people and occupying their land. If he had reason to do so...there it was. He did not set foot in that camp. He avoided politics and concentrated on the government he would bring in at God’s due time....meanwhile, we wait.

 

[Triumph1300]

About politics...no! Because of who is ruling the politics. (1 John 5:19) There are no good guys in politics. Only evil people and deluded ones, who think that they can fix what is broken....they never have and never will. Only God can fix this world and we should let him.

I guess Jehovah Witnesses don't vote?

 

[Wrangler]

As Christians we must be completely neutral.

Wrong. As Christians, we should advocate for God, Jesus, truth, justice, love, beauty, light over darkness, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is good, whatever is virtuous and praiseworthy. See Phil 4:8

 

[Triumph1300]

Only genuine Christians can put aside their feelings and act the way Christ commanded

That includes turning over tables and and telling people they are hypocrites.

 

[Wrangler]

That includes turning over tables and and telling people they are hypocrites.

And whipping at people and buy swords with intent and be prepared to use it, I.e., kill bad guys.

 

[Prycejosh1987]

Crusades are awesome when they are focused on Christ.

 

[Wrangler]

Crusades are awesome when they are focused on Christ.

Did you see this vid?

Bill Warner, PhD: Jihad vs Crusades

Not wanting to lose this golden nugget of historical analysis deep in another thread, I wanted to create this thread to showcase the graphical representation of centuries of Islamic Jihad against Christian Europe compared to the Crusades. It's a brilliant work by Dr. Bill Warner that concisely...

www.christianityboard.com

 

[Chihuahua]

I believe the churches of Revelation are seven...

1. Ephesus - Messianic
2. Smyrna - Martyr - Foxes has the Roman persecutions as ten
3. Pergamos - Pergos is a tower.... Needed in the dark ages
4. Thyatira - Catholic
5. Sardis - Protestant
6. Philadelphia - A great awakening
7. Laodicea - Rich, increased with goods, and have need of nothing?

Oh you are one of those? The Churches addressed in Revelation are the Churches addressed in Revelation.
At least that is what the tea leaves at the bottom of the cup tell me. When it comes to scripture, I take a magic eight ball prayed over by 137 deacons, randomly open scripture, ask a question, and I divine if God wants me to eat at McDonalds or Wendy's. I do not always understand the answer.

 

[Aunty Jane]

I guess Jehovah Witnesses don't vote?

No we don’t....because that would be us meddling in politics. We are happy to remain neutral....not a threat to anyone.

If we voted for someone, we’d have to accept responsibility for what they did in that position because we had a share in putting them there.
Community responsibility applies.....just as it did in Israel. When a good King reigned the people followed his lead, but when a bad king went off the rails, and led the people into false worship...the whole nation suffered....even those who remained faithful to God.

The difference in ancient Israel is that the King was ruling a religious nation....whose laws were provided by God, exclusively to them. No political nation today is ruled by God.

 

[Chihuahua]

No we don’t....because that would be us meddling in politics. We are happy to remain neutral....not a threat to anyone.

Do you issues with pRBCs, frozen plasma, platelets or cryo?

 

[Aunty Jane]

That includes turning over tables and and telling people they are hypocrites.

The merchants were turning his Father’s house into a den of thieves....and since God gave his Son authority to judge....he did...and he didn’t mince words.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Do you issues with pRBCs, frozen plasma, platelets or cryo?

Do we have issues with blood transfusions?.....yes we do, and thanks to doctors who saw that we were sincere in adhering to God’s Law on the consumption of blood, we have many ways now to avoid blood transfusions, with surprisingly successful outcomes. Surprising to the medical profession that is, but not to us. In fact there are whole hospitals now dedicated to non-blood treatment of their patients. Recovery time is faster and hospital stays reduced....it saves them a lot of money and with better outcomes......they found the measures so successful that they now use them routinely.

 

[Chihuahua]

Do we have issues with blood transfusions?.....yes we do, and thanks to doctors who saw that we were sincere in adhering to God’s Law on the consumption of blood, we have many ways now to avoid blood transfusions, with surprisingly successful outcomes.

Do tell me :)
Humans do not consume blood. RBCs generally die off before an antibody is developed. If said antigen pops up with another transfusion, the immune response is usually not an issue. Plasma just has antibodies as the concern. You can put those warm baggies of platelets into almost anyone.
But, I am super curious as to all that you know.

Surprising to the medical profession that is, but not to us. In fact there are whole hospitals now dedicated to non-blood treatment of their patients. Recovery time is faster and hospital stays reduced....it saves them a lot of money and with better outcomes......they found the measures so successful that they now use them routinely.

And those hospitals use what? Smoke from the mouth of a shaman or four-leafed clovers mixed into a paste?

 

[Aunty Jane]

Do tell me :)
Humans do not consume blood.

Taking anything into the body to sustain life and provide nourishment is consuming it.....it is against God’s law to consume blood...the method makes no difference.

In three different eras, God repeated his law on blood...first to Noah after the flood when permission was granted to eat the flesh of animals....(Gen 9:3-6) God told them which were clean and unclean for both sacrifice and consumption, and the animals for food had to be properly bled.....their throats were cut and they were hung to make sure the blood was poured out on the ground, symbolically returning the life of the animal to God in respect.

Animals were not to hunted for sport, only for food. Previously ALL creatures were vegetarians. (Gen 1:30) Some of the world’s largest and strongest animals are still vegetarians.

The second time blood was prohibited to man was in the Law given to Moses (Lev 17:10-12) and a third time in the Christian era. (Acts 15:28-29)

It’s on a par with sexual immorality and incurred the death penalty.....a serious matter.

RBCs generally die off before an antibody is developed. If said antigen pops up with another transfusion, the immune response is usually not an issue. Plasma just has antibodies as the concern. You can put those warm baggies of platelets into almost anyone.

All of that is irrelevant...we will not have blood......and the more we learn about it, the more we are convinced that it is good medicine to go without it. From personal experience, I have lost count of the brothers and sisters I have known throughout the years who were told point blank that they would die without blood....but none of them did, because they found doctors who respected our beliefs and adjusted their methods of treatment.

I will include a video here from the Australian Government’s Blood Authority who’s job it is to oversee all things related to the use of blood in medicine....it’s not long but contains some very important facts and they have known this for decades.

Blood as Medicine There are risks

I hope it’s still available.....it’s not from JW’s.

But, I am super curious as to all that you know.

We make it our business to know because we also know that some physicians are old school and stuck in their old practices. Modern techniques have eliminated the need for blood transfusions.
Our brothers are experts on bloodless medicine and are there for consultation by doctors treating Witness patients. Doctors are impressed with their knowledge.

And those hospitals use what? Smoke from the mouth of a shaman or four-leafed clovers mixed into a paste?

Don’t give me attitude.....because you don’t know what you’re talking about....we are not in the dark ages...it’s modern medicine that has lifted the lid on this draconian practice.....the truth about how effective blood transfusions really are will shock people. More people actually die after accepting them than ever die without them......we are living proof. And the techniques they have were developed because of us and others who have adverse reactions to foreign blood. What do you know about the lifestyle of the donor?
In the USA many down and out people sell their blood...would you want it if there was a safer option?