Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
You keep referring back to Israelite times as though what they practiced are somehow incumbent upon Christ’s disciples......the Christian Era operates under a new covenant...not the old one. The majority of Christians are Gentiles who never had the law in the first place. They did not need to convert to Judaism in order to become Christ’s disciples. What is a disciple Wrangler?
You should be Jewish if that is what you want to hold up as an excuse to do what Jesus never did, or ever commanded of his disciples. If you “return evil for evil” you are no better than they are.....all murderers because God has not sanctioned a war since the days of ancient Israel, when they defended their God-given homeland.....whose homeland today is “God-given”....and not stolen at the point of a sword from someone else, with much bloodshed?
And you keep harping back to the “swords” that Jesus told his apostles to buy, but ignore the reason, which is plainly stated in that passage of Scripture.
Luke 22:35-38 NET...
Then Jesus said to them, “When I sent you out with no money bag, or traveler’s bag, or sandals, you didn’t lack anything, did you?” They replied, “Nothing.” He said to them, “But now, the one who has a money bag must take it, and likewise a traveler’s bag too. And the one who has no sword must sell his cloak and buy one. For I tell you that this scripture must be fulfilled in me, ‘.’ For what is written about me is being fulfilled.” So they said, “Look, Lord, here are two swords.” Then he told them, “It is enough.”
Why were they told to buy swords, and why was two “enough” against an armed mob?
Use your logic and see why....it was that they were armed, but would not resort to violence....Peter nearly blew it with his impulsive action......they were not to be used! Peter was reprimanded even though his motives were noble. It was to fulfill prophesy only.
Stop with the justification already!
Indeed...”Christianity” (or what it became) went off the rails very early in its history, just as Jesus said it would. What they have been “doing for centuries” is exactly what you are doing....finding excuses to engage in slaughter, even of the innocent.....you seem to love the violence and the desensitisation that is taking place today with violent video games and movies is taking its toll....would Jesus be sitting beside us approving of it?
in case you don’t know, God is opposed to those who are in a hurry to do violence...
As David wrote in the 11th Psalm....
“Certainly the Lord is just; he rewards godly deeds. The upright will experience his favor. For look, the wicked prepare their bows, they put their arrows on the strings, to shoot in the darkness at the morally upright. . . . .The Lord is in his holy temple; the Lord’s throne is in heaven. His eyes watch; his eyes examine all people. The Lord approves of the godly, but he hates the wicked and those who love to do violence. May he rain down burning coals and brimstone on the wicked! A whirlwind is what they deserve.” (NET)
All will reap what they have sown....
If you go back to the very early Christians, history tells a different story...
The early Christians refused to serve in the Roman army, both in the legions and auxilia, considering such service as wholly incompatible with the teachings of Christianity.
Justin Martyr (110-l65 C.E.) in his “Dialogue with Trypho” wrote.... “We who were filled with war, and mutual slaughter, and every wickedness, have each through the whole earth changed our warlike weapons,—our swords into ploughshares, and our spears into implements of tillage.”
There is no doubt where Tertullian stood in 204 C.E. on the question of military service for Christians. In his treatise De Corona, chapter XI, discussing “whether warfare is proper at all for Christians,” he argued from Scripture “the unlawfulness even of a military life itself,” concluding, “I banish from us the military life.” “
Later apostate Christianity was not reflective of original Christianity at all. That explains the “practice over the centuries”
Oh please.....this is another chestnut you keep rolling out....who was Jesus talking to, and what did he mean when he said those words? He was actually referring to taxes....but what are the wider implications?
In his book The Early Church and the World, Professor C. J. Cadoux writes: “Up to the reign of Marcus Aurelius at least [161-180 C.E.], no Christian would become a soldier after his baptism.”
Why do members of the churches of Christendom not view things this way today? Because of a radical change that took place in the fourth century.
The Catholic work “A History of the Christian Councils” stated... “Many Christians, . . . under the pagan emperors, had religious scruples with regard to military service, and positively refused to take arms, or else deserted. The Synod [of Arles, held in 314 C.E.], in considering the changes introduced by Constantine, set forth the obligation that Christians have to serve in war, . . . because the Church is at peace (in pace) under a prince friendly to Christians.”
As a result of this abandonment of Jesus’ teachings, from that time until now, the clergy of Christendom have encouraged their flocks to serve in the armies of the nations, although some individuals have taken a stand as conscientious objectors......will the real Christians please stand up.
Doesn’t that explain why your claims are invalid......they show no understanding at all of Christian principles outlined in Scripture. We can pay to Caesar what is his...but God’s things must be given first place...not second, or down the list, because of patriotic programming....pledges of allegiance to man’s kingdoms not God’s.
