Reason for The Crusades explained

[JustMe]

For some reason, you are determined to make this personal. The topic is the reasons FOR the Crusades.

What, personal, really! Obviously you are in a different frame of mind that I.

I could not care less about the Crusades or the open offensive Islamic wars of the sword. I do not take it personally. I was telling you not to trust this man you quoted, and maybe why.

If I triggered a person nerve then it was not intended.

 

[Wrangler]

I was telling you not to trust this man you quoted

Hence, the observation of personal attack. Where is your data of competing facts from what he presented?

 

[Wrangler]

Dr. Bill Warner, the well-known warmonger

That's quite the compliment in these parts. You've inspired me to learn more about him. Thanks!

 

[JustMe]

Hence, the observation of personal attack. Where is your data of competing facts from what he presented?

So I attacked you, when men were men indeed. Later due, when you get over your attack.

 

[Wrangler]

So I attacked you, when men were men indeed. Later due, when you get over your attack.

Hmmm. Just because one can handle being attacked does not mean they are not being attacked.

 

[Aunty Jane]

@Matthias, @Aunty Jane, your world view is nihilistic,

That is insulting Wrangler.....there is no way that obeying Christ is nihilistic. Life is sacred which is why we humans are told not to take it...even if the offender is nihilistic....we have no sanction from God to kill anyone....for any reason.

If however, we are “part of the world” then when the world wants to go to war, we can happily join them...but there is a catch.....it will win us no favour with God. God does not take sides when evil is fighting evil. How can you not see that? Where does this war mentality come from? What glory is there in giving your life for a government who couldn’t care less about its soldiers....every one of them is expendable and yet irreplaceable to a family. They died a hero? Visiting them in a cemetery doesn’t do anyone any good.

As Solomon said....”a live dog is better off than a dead lion”.

saying what the Crusaders did is NOT right.

How can it be right when it argues with everything Jesus taught? As I said if you are a war supporter, that makes you “part of the world”...is there any future in that? (James 4:4) Your excuses betray a complete lack of faith in God, who could snuff out the offenders in a heartbeat if he wanted to.....do you never ask why he didn’t?

How do you defend your INACTION as millions of Christians over the centuries were murdered, raped, enslaved and conquered by Islamic Jihad?

The same way that God does...with patient endurance, knowing that there is a purpose to all that God allows. He doesn’t need the vigilantes to step in for him. When the vigilantes commit the same heinous acts as the so called perpetrators, what does God see? Man “returning evil for evil”....something he told Christians NOT to do.

Don’t get carried away with what happened in ancient Israel, because those were different times and different circumstances. Israel’s army were commanded by God to act as his executional forces in an environment where the nations only understood that kind of retaliation...that kind of victory....they knew who Israel’s God was.....but Israel was only sanctioned for war when those nations threatened his people and wanted to take their God-given land. He authorized them to defend it....and he backed them up, even when they were outnumbered......what God-given land have the nations ever had that was not stolen from others with bloodshed? Including yours and mine? Our history is shameful.

What does justice look like in your world view?

The kind that God carries out....wholesale slaughter perpetrated by a so called “Christian” nation under the authority of a corrupted church is thinly disguised demonism. The only god fighting on both sides was the devil.

True justice is the kind that God will have done, when his Son returns with his angelic forces to pass judgment on all who claim him as their “Lord”...but who deny him by their disobedience.
No “Christian” will participate in that violence.

 

[Matthias]

“The Bible can be a dangerous book if misused and abused. In the history of the church, the misunderstanding of the Bible has led to many serious problems, ranging from false doctrine to legalistic customs and misdirected lives. One of the most blatant examples of this is the Crusades: a series of wars led by Europeans in the name of Christ against Islamic states in the Near East during the Middle Ages. … most importantly, the history of the Crusades must teach us as Christians to recognize the great damage done to Christ by these wars. … What a betrayal of the Christ, who poured out His life on the cross, enduring injustice and making peace, to identify Him with the slaughter of political enemies. As Christians, we must seek always to advance Christ’s cause through truth joined by love and selfsacrifice, not through violence.”

The Crusades by W. Robert Godfrey

The Bible can be a dangerous book if misused and abused. In the history of the church, the misunderstanding of the Bible has led to many serious problems, rangi

learn.ligonier.org

Bold is mine.

 

[Matthias]

“There will no longer be any curse”

(Revelation 22:3)

”... herem is therefore used in Zech 14:11 as a metaphor for a genocidal form of war that intends nothing less than the complete slaughter and destruction of the enemy (see Isa 34:2; Jer 31:40), and the promise that it will never again occur is couched in the covenantal promise language of Gen 9:11. Therefore it appears that katathema is the author’s way of interpreting herem. Thus the word refers not generally to curses, accursed things, or persons, but specifically to the promise that ‘the curse of war’ will no longer exist.”

(David E. Aune, Word Biblical Commentary, Revelation 17-22, Vol. 52C, p. 1179)

 

[Matthias]

Flocknote

stclareofassisi12.flocknote.com

 

[Matthias]

 

[Matthias]

 

[Matthias]

 

[Matthias]

 

[Matthias]

Just war theory doesn’t come from Jesus.

Powerful. Arm yourself with knowledge.

 

[Matthias]

 

[Matthias]

“We have not been called to war making as the world makes war, with bombs, guns, slaps or even vicious words, but we are called to make peace, even if that peace is made by turning the other cheek.”

(Chuck Jones, Living Today The Kingdom Way, p. 58)

 

[Matthias]

“… the evidence of right living is extended peacefully by those who are peacemakers. We do not extend God’s kingdom with swords of steel, giving an ultimatum, ‘convert or die.’ God’s kingdom is advanced by peace makers.”

(Chuck Jones, Living Today The Kingdom Way, p. 60)

 

[Wrangler]

That is insulting Wrangler.....there is no way that obeying Christ is nihilistic.

See how you hide your pacifist ideology behind belief in Christ and obeying him? I never said believing in Christ is nihilistic. I said your pacifism is nihilistic.

 

[Wrangler]

What does justice look like in your world view?

The kind that God carries out

So, total abdication of responsibility of you or other human beings personally doing justice as Micah 6:8 commands.

 

[Aunty Jane]

See how you hide your pacifist ideology behind belief in Christ and obeying him? I never said believing in Christ is nihilistic. I said your pacifism is nihilistic.

It’s pointless trying to argue with your mindset Wrangler....you have convinced yourself that disobeying Christ is somehow your right when you want to take the law into your own hands.....your god is powerless so you have to act for him, and because you are with “the good guys” he will somehow reward you.....but if there are no good guys because they are all disobeying Christ, where does that leave you?....
What does Jesus tell us to do ?

We are no longer in the days of ancient Israel, where a God-given land is to be defended.....there is no such place on earth at this juncture...and “Israel” is now a spiritual nation, not a fleshly one.

2 Cor 10:3-5....
“For though we walk in the flesh, we do not wage warfare according to what we are in the flesh. 4  For the weapons of our warfare are not fleshly, but powerful by God for overturning strongly entrenched things. 5  For we are overturning reasonings and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God, and we are bringing every thought into captivity to make it obedient to the Christ”.

Do you fit that description or are you it’s polar opposite?

Jesus wasn’t a pacifist and neither are we.....we are just obedient disciples of Christ.....”peacemakers” don’t have to resort to carnal weapons because we have something more powerful.....the truth that can overturn “strongly entrenched” ideas and lead an individual to peace. Christianity isn’t what the majority claim it to be....it is obeying the Christ in all things, no matter how much injustice we see.....God is aware of all of it and as long as he permits it, we wait patiently until his final solution is implemented.

Not a single human vigilante will accompany Jesus in his last battle....we have to be what Jesus was...obedient as far as death...not the death of others at our hand, but our own death faced with the courage of our convictions.