Once Saved, Always Saved?

[Rich R]

Hebrews 10:26

All that says is that Jesus dies once. The people in Hebrews were on the verge of falling by the wayside. They were in danger of going back to the law. God was simply telling them that there was no other sacrifice that could save them again, so stick with what they already have, i.e. the salvation in Jesus Christ.

 

[Rich R]

Do you have your eyes closed?

No.

"Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days He has spoken to us by his Son..." (Hebrews 1:1-2)

All that is saying is that the author was speaking to Jewish Christians. Unlike Paul's letters, the OT is full of OT references to "the fathers." Clearly this opening verse informs us that the audience was Jews who were born again.

However, they were in danger of falling back into the law, so the author was telling them that salvation is in Jesus alone. They were already saved, so why go back? If read without preconceived ideas, with open eyes, that is the thrust of the whole book..

 

[Wrangler]

All that says is that Jesus dies once.

No, it doesn't just say anything like Jesus dies only once at all. It is the EXACT answer to your question; what sin will not be forgiven. Why do you disregard the explicit statement that there is NO sacrifice for this type of sin; which means Jesus' sacrifice does not cover it; meaning the wages of sin, death, STILL need to be paid?

 

[mailmandan]

All that says is that Jesus dies once. The people in Hebrews were on the verge of falling by the wayside. They were in danger of going back to the law. God was simply telling them that there was no other sacrifice that could save them again, so stick with what they already have, i.e. the salvation in Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 10:26 - For if we go on willfully and deliberately sinning after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice [to atone] for our sins [that is, no further offering to anticipate], (AMP)

 

[Rich R]

No, it doesn't just say anything like Jesus dies only once at all. It is the EXACT answer to your question; what sin will not be forgiven. Why do you disregard the explicit statement that there is NO sacrifice for this type of sin; which means Jesus' sacrifice does not cover it; meaning the wages of sin, death, STILL need to be paid?

It seems you might be going more by preconceived ideas instead of the context of Hebrews. It's never a good idea to build a doctrine on one or two verses.

Hebrews 10:26 - For if we go on willfully and deliberately sinning after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice [to atone] for our sins [that is, no further offering to anticipate], (AMP)

1 John 1:10,

If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.​

How do you see that fit in with Hebrews 10:26? Can you honestly say you have never sinned knowingly? Or are all of your sins accidental?

 

[Rich R]

No, it doesn't just say anything like Jesus dies only once at all. It is the EXACT answer to your question; what sin will not be forgiven. Why do you disregard the explicit statement that there is NO sacrifice for this type of sin;

I think you are saying there is some particular sin Hebrews is talking about. What would that be?

which means Jesus' sacrifice does not cover it;

So Jesus didn't really finish the job? He just said he did (John 19:30)?

meaning the wages of sin, death, STILL need to be paid?

Jesus isn't going to do any more. Hebrews is clear that he did what he did one time and one time only. So that begs the question, who will pay for the sins you say still need to be paid for?

 

[Wrangler]

It seems you might be going more by preconceived ideas instead of the context of Hebrews. It's never a good idea to build a doctrine on one or two verses.

Thats’s rich! Pun intended. I provided many verses in post 2598.

1 John 1:10,

If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.​

How do you see that fit in with Hebrews 10:26? Can you honestly say you have never sinned knowingly? Or are all of your sins accidental?

Two things can be true at the same time. I believe these 2 verses can be discerned by Hebrews emphasizing habitual.

Honestly, your question is a deflection from Hebrews 10:26 being the EXACT answer to your question. You just don’t want to except the collapse of OSAS.

Said differently, what set of words would need to be assembled for you to accept OSAS is a doctrine allowing sin with impunity, which is anti-Scriptural? What is your rejection criteria for OSAS?

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

If OSAS is true I'll be fine.

It's not so those believing this aren't fine. You gotta REPENT of your sins and stop sinning!

1 Corinthians 15:34
Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

It's always hilarious (not in a good way) to hear when people come on trying to defend sin claiming they cannot stop sinning

Then they proudly and very arrogantly proclaim for all to hear that they are still sinners!

Ephesians 2:10
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

It's not a matter of trying to earn salvation thru good works... It's a matter of being obedient verses being disobedient!

Those that accept the calling of the Lord and become new creatures in Christ Jesus abiding in Him doing good works by the power of the Holy Spirit within as the Lord leads... these are true children of God.

Those claiming to be saved not walking in obedience have rejected the ordination and calling of the Lord and are the children of disobedience who refuse to put on the new man and walk in newness of life to stop being servants of sin...

Colossians 3:5-9
Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.
But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.
Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

Ephesians 4:24
And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Romans 13:14
But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

Hebrews 9:14
How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Romans 6:4-6
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

As these scripture references indicate, those not accepting the calling of the Lord to be led by the Holy Ghost into walking after the new man are in disobedience... which will NOT end well for them unless they repent of their sin and get with the Lord's game plan!

The OSAS tares will be along shortly claiming "No man, you don't have to put on the new man to be saved - that's trying to earn your salvation man" as they take another hit of high grade marijuana from the new bong their momma gave them for Christmas!

So, now you are referring to Christians in the OSAS camp as "satanists" even if they don't promote a license to sin/license for immorality?

OSAS doctrine is actually encouraging people to believe they can live in sin and still be saved.

You may not see it that way, but many continue living in their sin all because the OSAS people go around telling every one "it's not possible for you to lose your salvation"

And when you call out the OSAS heretics for causing many to stumble their typical response is "that's not my problem man"

You need to be more careful about being a false accuser of the brethren

You need to stop following doctrines of demons.

I never did understand the point of OSAS. It's like OSASers are trying to convince each other.

They are trying to convince each other and themselves.

They have to constantly keep themselves and their fellow tares convinced by talking up their false doctrine which is one of the ear marks of a cult.

This deserves its own thread.

There's been many threads about this but the OSAS tares will never change their tune.

They've been deceived in to following their false doctrine at all cost.

They'd throw their own momma under the bus if mamma ever decided to stop following OSAS

In regard to Hebrews 10:26, to "sin willfully" here carries the idea of deliberate intention that is habitual

There you go folks!

OSAS believes you can sin every now and again and it's all good. Just don't make a "habit" out of it.

This is exactly why the OSAS people love their false doctrine so much is that they think they can engage in sinful activity "occasionally" and still be saved. They ever go around telling others "I'm still a sinner!" with great pride and arrogance as though this is some sort of badge of honor or something.

Yeah the devil honors those that teach OSAS doctrine because the devil is the author of OSAS doctrine heresy that cause so many to stumble just like it cause Adam and Eve to stumble.

The 18 yo doesn't deserve death. Those who violate Hebrews 10:26 do - even if they claim to be saved and believe in Jesus. Their actions reveal the truth. The gates of heaven will not be breached by lip serve!

Funny too is that OSAS thinks 1 John 1:9 is only used once when a person first gets saved.

After one is born again they believe that all their future sins are already forgiven and God can only see them in Jesus believing if they continue living in sin God cannot see them living in sin and it's a moot point anyway as they falsely claim all sin is automatically washed way whether the person repents or not, so no need to confess one's sins to the Lord and repent of them according to the OSAS heresy

If all this were actually true - then we could all live in sin and still be saved.

This is why and how OSAS doctrine is causing so many to stumble teaching people they can live in sin and it's all good.

 

[Wrangler]

I think you are saying there is some particular sin Hebrews is talking about. What would that be?

Nope. It’s not the species of sin but it being habitual.

Since I came to Christ, I became more aware of my incidental sin, which caused me to ask more fervently for forgiveness than before I came to Christ. Your Mileage Cannot Vary.

So Jesus didn't really finish the job? He just said he did (John 19:30)?

While I admit my wife cleaned the kitchen, you seem to deny it can ever get dirty again.

So that begs the question, who will pay for the sins you say still need to be paid for?

As always by default, the sinner pays for his own sins.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

osas COLLAPSED?
Maybe, However God's Eternal Salvation Will Abide How Long? For Ever And EVER!:

God's OPERATION On All HIS New-born babes In CHRIST
+ Update
+
God's Eternal Assurance
+
God's Eternal Life Insurance

For Ever And EVER!!! Amen.

 

[Wrangler]

osas COLLAPSED?

You hyper-grace folks ignore justice. There is a difference between:

1. one who clings tightly and abides in Christ, doing the commands of God
2. from one who pays lip service to all these things but acts sinfully and habitually.

God is faithful to the first group. To the second group, Jesus said even though you called me Lord, Lord, I never knew you. Come on now!

The gates of heaven will not be breached by lip service.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

God's Eternal Salvation Will Abide How Long? For Ever And EVER!:

Which is only applicable o those who abide in Christ.

If a person sins, they just ceased from abiding in Christ as they chose to stop being led by the Holy Spirit and decided instead to start being led by the flesh as they have sown to the flesh and have reaped corruption.

This is at the heart of satan's deception in that he teaches people thru OSAS and other demonic teachings that one can sow to the flesh and not reap corruption. This is what the devil taught Adam and Eve to get them to become corrupt in disobeying the Lord and it's what he continues teaching today thru the false teachers.

If one claims we DO reap corruption when we sin, then they are admitting they do not believe OSAS / Eternal security doctrine (and sadly many of their friends will forsake them!).... and if one claims we DO NOT reap what we sow, then according to Gal 6:7, that would be mocking God!

Adam and Eve were given eternal life by the Lord when He created them... but when they sinned against God they became corrupt and died spiritually and became separated from God. So Gal 6:7,8 is quite the quandary, quite the state of uncertainty, perplexity, and befuddlement for the adherents of OSAS doctrine.

This is a major biblical truth the OSAS crowd always explains away or denies is simply this... God is NOT mocked, what we sow is what we reap - if we sow to the flesh we shall of the flesh reap corruption. (Gal 6:7,8)

 

[JustMe]

Hebrews 10:26 - For if we go on willfully and deliberately sinning after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice [to atone] for our sins [that is, no further offering to anticipate], (AMP)

You and @Rich R are spot on. I really do not see the confusion in scripture here, only the confusion in the minds of the deliberately self-misguided who at least are not secure in their salvation, if truly saved.

According to Hebrews 10:26, willful sin does not pertain to those who are genuinely converted. The verse’s context indicates that these willful sinners are unsaved individuals who have recently heard the gospel and are cautioned not to return to the law or persist in it. If they reject Christ’s one-time sacrifice for sin, they are rightly labeled willful sinners—those who refuse the gospel and become even more brazen in sin after gaining this sacred knowledge.

This reflects the hardened condition typical of a worldly, carnal person who does not believe.

Such individuals are resolved to oppose God, refuse to repent or change their sinful ways, and never accept the Son as their salvation—this defines their spiritual state.

The mistaken belief that being saved grants permission to sin has nothing to do with Hebrews 10:26; rather, it stems from those promoting this idea, raising doubts about their genuine salvation. I wonder.

 

[Rich R]

Hebrews 10:26 - For if we go on willfully and deliberately sinning after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice [to atone] for our sins [that is, no further offering to anticipate], (AMP)

There is a lot there not in the original Greek. KJV is much closer to the Greek.

Heb 10:26,

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,​

​

So, do you ever sin knowingly, or are all your sins accidental? In any case, it just doesn't say anything about losing salvation.

1 Pet 1:23,

Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.​

​

No matter what you do, you can't stop being your earthly father's son. And that birth is by corruptible seed. How much more are you God's son or daughter given that seed is incorruptible. It's an insult to God to think you can undo his work, and what an insult to Jesus to think you have to finish the job he apparently didn't finish.

 

[Rich R]

Thats’s rich! Pun intended. I provided many verses in post 2598.


Two things can be true at the same time. I believe these 2 verses can be discerned by Hebrews emphasizing habitual.

You'd have a point if it actually said habitual. Of course, it doesn't.

Honestly, your question is a deflection from Hebrews 10:26 being the EXACT answer to your question. You just don’t want to except the collapse of OSAS.

Said differently, what set of words would need to be assembled for you to accept OSAS is a doctrine allowing sin with impunity, which is anti-Scriptural? What is your rejection criteria for OSAS?

I'd reject OSAS if 1 Peter 1:23 (just one example) wasn't in the scriptures.

1 Pet 1:23,

Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.​

​

I trust you don't think we were saved by God, not by works. Assuming that is true, Paul has a question for you:

Gal 3:2-3,

2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?​

​

3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?​

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

According to Hebrews 10:26, willful sin does not pertain to those who are genuinely converted

Hebrews 10:26
For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth

So your claim is they did not receive the Truth? You didn't know that Jesus said God's Word is Truth (John 17:17) so you claim Hebrews 10:26 is not talking to those that have been born again when it is clearly speaking to those that have "have received the knowledge of the truth"???

Hebrews 10:26 says "For if we sin" as it is written to believers and is a warning to believers telling us what NOT to do.

And you claim would also be that 2 Peter 2:20 is not speaking about Christians?

2 Peter 2:20
For if after they have escaped the pollution of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

The verse’s context indicates that these willful sinners are unsaved individuals

Scripture twisting at it's finest!

This reflects the hardened condition typical of a worldly, carnal person who does not believe.

the Book of Hebrews was written to Christians

God's Word contains warnings to Christians - deny and disregard God's warnings at your own peril

 

[mailmandan]

Folks who suffer from a severe case of anti-OSAS derangement syndrome remind me of folks on the left who suffer from Trump derangement syndrome. If you voted for Trump, you are automatically and unfairly labeled a racist, a fascist, and a nazi by these judgmental folks on the left and if you are a Christian in the OSAS camp, you are automatically and unfairly labeled a cultist, a heretic and a satanist by these judgmental folks who suffer from a severe case of anti-OSAS derangement syndrome. It's really sad.

Ephesians 4:31 - Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice.

 

[Rich R]

Nope. It’s not the species of sin but it being habitual.

As I mentioned in some other post, the word "habitual" is not there. But, ignoring that fact, how many sins before it is classified as habitual?

Do you ever worry you may have gone over the limit, or do you rest in your own righteousness? Or maybe just some nagging feeling that you are not sure?

Since I came to Christ, I became more aware of my incidental sin, which caused me to ask more fervently for forgiveness than before I came to Christ. Your Mileage Cannot Vary.



While I admit my wife cleaned the kitchen, you seem to deny it can ever get dirty again.

God is not talking about a clean or dirty kitchen. He is talking about the complete and perfect work He did through Jesus.

As always by default, the sinner pays for his own sins.

In this life, yes. But that doesn't say the incorruptible seed suddenly became corruptible, or that eternal life suddenly becomes not eternal.

There is a difference in blessings in this life and the promise of eternal life in the coming age. If we do depart from the faith, we lose the blessing in this life, but eternal life is eternal life. It can't suddenly become non-eternal.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Folks who suffer from a severe case of anti-OSAS derangement syndrome remind me of folks on the left who suffer from Trump derangement syndrome.

Folks that suffer from a severe case of Ignorance of God's Word syndrome remind me of, well the devil since all they have is deception just like the old devil. Their understanding has been corrupted just like the devil.

Ephesians 4:31 - Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice

Ephesians 5:11
And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather correct them.

You have been corrected. Continue rejecting the whole counsel of the Lord and remain sin friendly causing others to stumble at your own peril. It ends badly.

Do you ever worry you may have gone over the limit, or do you rest in your own righteousness? Or maybe just some nagging feeling that you are not sure?

No because he's not stupid - IF he sins he will forsake and confess his sin to the Lord and be cleansed of all unrighteousness (Proverbs 28:13 and 1 John 1:9)

The fearmongering of the heretics is quite the comedy show and demonstrates their rejection and ignorance of the whole counsel of God as they continue in their cherry pickin ways.

God is not talking about a clean or dirty kitchen. He is talking about the complete and perfect work He did through Jesus.

Is this the part where you're going to tell us all our future sins are already washed away where there's no need to forsake and confess our sins claiming God can be mocked we do not reap what we sow and if we sow to the flesh (sin) we do not reap corruption???

I hope not as that is mocking God according to Gal 6:7,8

Of course to the OSAS mind one can mock God all they want and still be in right standing with Him

But that doesn't say the incorruptible seed suddenly became corruptible, or that eternal life suddenly becomes not eternal.

It does however speak to the fact that salvation is only applicable to those that are IN Christ.

Your narrative is misleading and deceptive because it came from the devil.

God's Word can in fact be choked out of a person causing them to become unfruitful according to Jesus that you should get to know someday (see Mark 4:13-20), and Jesus said those that don't bare fruit, the Father cuts off as Jesus is the vine and the Father owns the vine and cuts off dead branches (see John 15)

2 Timothy 2:12
If we deny Him, He also will deny us

 

[Wrangler]

According to Hebrews 10:26, willful sin does not pertain to those who are genuinely converted.

This is Circular Reasoning.

P1. People who do X are not ’genuinely converted.’​

P2. Person A did X.​

C. Person A is not ’genuinely converted.’​