Can One Be Christian and Not Believe In The Trinity?

[Wrangler]

The only begotten God is the standard reading

Nope. Sorry. Can't feed your relying into bad translations. From Examining the Textual Variant in John 1:18 | Ezra Institute

The older English rendering, “only-begotten Son,” is common and appears elsewhere in John.​

 

[HealthyShape]

Nope. Sorry. Can't feed your relying into bad translations. From Examining the Textual Variant in John 1:18 | Ezra Institute

The older English rendering, “only-begotten Son,” is common and appears elsewhere in John.​

Look at the NA or UBS standard editions of the Greek text and see for yourself. Nothing easier than that, google is your friend. You are just a pseudonym on internet, while these editions are authoritative and used by scholars, universities and translators all over the world.

 

[Wrangler]

see for yourself.

I already provide source material showing you are factually wrong on the proper translation of John 1:18. You are the one who refuses to see for yourself.

 

[HealthyShape]

I already provide source material showing you are factually wrong on the proper translation of John 1:18. You are the one who refuses to see for yourself.

The standard source material is Nestlé Aland or UBS, not some website. Learn more about these things so that you do not spread misinformation.

 

[Wrangler]

The standard source material is Nestlé Aland or UBS, not some website. Learn more about these things so that you do not spread misinformation.

Constant projection, it is with you! You make a blatant Appeal to Authority.

Going to the source material, In no sense of the word “son” is “God” a valid sense of the word.

 

[HealthyShape]

Constant projection, it is with you! You make a blatant Appeal to Authority.

Going to the source material, In no sense of the word “son” is “God” a valid sense of the word.

You are talking nonsense. Of course that I will appeal to authority when you claim some verse or word does not belong into the Bible. You are not the one to decide what does or does not belong there, come to your senses.

Look into the Nestlé Aland or UBS. The word is "theos" (God), not "hyos" (Son), there.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

definition of Christianity?
I have liked this for years!:

religion is "mankind, in futality, trying to find God"; Christianity is An Invasion From Heaven Upon mankind!
---------------------
And, precious friend(s), Please Be Very Richly Encouraged and Edified
In The Lord Jesus Christ and In His Precious Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided:

The Bible: The BIG Picture

Amen.

 

[Lambano]

Oh my gosh.
The moderators BAN LAMBANO!

From your mouth to God's ear...

The prayer of a righteous man (or woman) availeth much. (James 5:16)

 

[Lambano]

It is NOT about a person's salvation which absolutely is not to be discussed and is between the person and God.

If one believes that only Christians are saved (wanna take a poll on THAT subject?), then the definition of Christian IS about salvation.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Foolish notions....First of all as a whole Catholics do not study the Bible....you are a good example....They are told what to believe.....

Do you realize how stupid and ignoran that sounds?
You sound like a typical racist who says that all black people are criiinals because he knows a few who are.

Most of the Catholics I know read the Bible - and I've been Catholic for over 50 years . . .

Because......Catholic doctrines are not biblical.

Firs of all - , if you knew your Bible, you would knpow that is a nonsensical claim.

Secondly, can you show me the verse that says ALL that is yo be taught is to come directly from the Bible (Sola Scriptura)?
Do you even know where the Bible came from?

 

[soberxp]

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory.
1 Timothy 3:16


Who was manifested in the flesh, the Father or the Son?

Jesus Christ said" the father is in me, and I am in the father."

When you see God, it is the son is in the father.
When you see Jesus Christ, it is father is in the son.

They are one, but never used the word "Trinity" in the Bible.
But the logos of Adam and Eve became one flesh as what was the beginning of all.
God made man in his own image.
1.They are one.
2.We are one.
3.Are we as one?

Go figure it out.
@GodsGrace

 

[Hiddenthings]

Jesus Christ is YHWH.

You know this is not true but you will persist until the end.

 

[Hiddenthings]

Hebrews 1 is almost entirely about the superiority of the Son to the angels.

I think this is the first truth you have stated.

In making the case

that that is so, the writer of Hebrews has the Father strongly implying that the Son is also Yahweh, being the agent of creation, by saying that Ps. 102:25-27 is speaking of the Son.

"Therefore God, even thy God" (vs. 9)

Jesus was God, the Son, in human flesh; two natures, one person. That is the consistent witness of the NT.

Jesus has a God in the same way you do, that is the whole point of Hebrews.

It’s remarkable how two people can read the same epistle and yet one completely misses its central message.

If you cannot discern the distinction Scripture makes between Jesus and God, then it may be time to step back from everything you think you know and start again.

What is this even supposed to mean?

It means Jesus’ nature, like yours, was held under the condemnation of death as a result of being born of a woman in the fallen line of Adam. That is the whole purpose of God having a Son, and it is precisely why Paul calls Jesus the Second Adam.

If you do not understand the victory, how can you understand who God is and what He has accomplished?

 

[GodsGrace]

It isn't??!!
To those (I guess) "churches" where these practices are still held should be considered "Secular, or Apostate" churches?

Don't have time now.
But you're saying that CONSTANTINE invented the Easter bunny and Halloween candy?

And what's wrong with celebrating the birth of JESUS CHRIST our GOD AND SAVIOR?
Titus 2:13

You're upset because it might not be the correct date?

It's a whole lot better than having someone define themselves as Christian who does not believe Jesus is God.

And your church history is sorely lacking.

 

[GodsGrace]

It isn't??!!
To those (I guess) "churches" where these practices are still held should be considered "Secular, or Apostate" churches?

Apostate means to have left THE FAITH.

A church that teaches that Jesus is a god and not GOD...
is an apstate church because it is NOT teaching what the Apostles taught and what THE CHRUCH has believed and taught from the very beginning - after Jesus' resurrection.

 

[GodsGrace]

If one believes that only Christians are saved (wanna take a poll on THAT subject?), then the definition of Christian IS about salvation.

No sir.
Stating who is saved is a bit beyond my pay grade.

This is not difficult:

Christianity MUST have tenets that MUST be adhered to for Christianity to have any meaning.

If a person posts on here that Jesus is NOT God...how could he possibly be of the Christian religion,
how could he possibly be Christian if he does NOT believe in the core Christian tenet - being that Jesus is God.

He could be saved but belong to a different group that does not believe in the Trinity.
But he could not state that he is Christian.

Christianity was defined by the Apostles and not by anyone living today.
The tenets are set and MUST be believed.

You said no one can tell you what a Christian is in another post...
well, the APOSTLES told you what a Christian is.

Could you please repeat to me what I just said?
It would be really appreciated.

 

[Hiddenthings]

Oh my gosh.

As an aside, this is slang for God, a term I strongly dislike. Like many such expressions, it often reveals a lack of understanding of His sovereignty and Holiness. Learning starts with fear.

 

[Justified]

"Therefore God, even thy God" (vs. 9)

Two things. One, that has nothing to do with the point I was making about verses 10-12. Two, in typical fashion as an anti-Trinitarian, you're proof-texting, and in so doing, completely ignoring the verses that immediately follow. That means you're taking things out of context and using selective texts to try and prove your case.

Jesus has a God in the same way you do, that is the whole point of Hebrews.

No, it isn't. Not even close. It's about who the Son is, including his superiority to the angels and superiority to everyone else, including the priests. The whole point of which is to point out why he is the sufficient and perfect sacrifice, priest, and mediator of God's grace.

Heb 1:2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world.

Notice that God "created the world" through the Son. It necessarily follows that the Son was in existence prior to creation. Only God preexisted creation.

And here, in support of verse 2, the Father says of the Son:

Heb 1:10 And, “You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the work of your hands;
Heb 1:11 they will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment,
Heb 1:12 like a robe you will roll them up, like a garment they will be changed. But you are the same, and your years will have no end.”

The Father is saying that Ps. 102:25-27 is speaking about the Son, but it is a passage about Yahweh. There are not too many ways that can be understood.

It’s remarkable how two people can read the same epistle and yet one completely misses its central message.

Yes, it is.

If you cannot discern the distinction Scripture makes between Jesus and God, then it may be time to step back from everything you think you know and start again.

These sorts of prideful comments are not helpful and unnecessary.

 

[Aunty Jane]

"No one has ever yet seen God. The only begotten God, the One being in the bosom of the Father, He has made Him known."
J 1:18

“No one has ever yet seen God.”...seems a pretty clear statement. How many people saw Jesus?

Can you tell me how “God” can be “begotten”? “Monogenes” in Greek means an only child, and this “only begotten god” is “in the bosom of the Father”...which in Jewish culture meant a position of favour with God.
Can God be in a position of favor with himself?

No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven - Son of Man.
J 3:13

What is this saying?
If no one ever went to heaven before Jesus, where did all the prophets of old go when they died?

"For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form"
Col 2:9

What does it mean “fullness of deity”?
To me this says that Jesus reflected the entirety of all of his Father’s qualities, in every way. It doesn’t say “Jesus is God”.

"...awaiting the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ."
Titus 2:13

If you read that in Greek...it doesn’t say what is translated into English.
In Greek phrasing it actually says...
“awaiting τὴν the μακαρίαν happy ἐλπίδα hope καὶ and ἐπιφάνειαν manifestation τῆς of the δόξης glory τοῦ of the μεγάλου great θεοῦ God καὶ and σωτῆρος of Savior ἡμῶν of us Χριστοῦ of Christ Ἰησοῦ, Jesus”.

This is not identifying Jesus as God. Both God and his Son are glorious beings.....but Jesus‘ glory is from his Father. The Father is the one who gave glory to all his spirit sons....but his “firstborn” is unique as “the firstborn of ALL creation”. (Col 1:15)

make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.
Mt 28:19

All three have a role in the journey of all who become baptized and active disciples of Jesus Christ.
Nowhere does it say that these three are one God.

I overthrew you, as God overthrew Sodoma and Gomorrha, and ye became as a brand plucked out of the fire: yet not even thus did ye return to me, says Yahweh.
Am 4:11 (Yahweh is talking about God in the third person)

This is an interesting one....if you look this up in a Hebrew Interlinear, there is an interesting distinction between the word “God” (ĕlōhîm) and Yahweh (הֹוָה Yᵉhôvâh)

You said that Yahweh is talking about himself in the third person....is this seen elsewhere in the Hebrew Scriptures?
What about Gen 19:24...?
“Then the Lord (Yahweh) rained on Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the Lord (Yahweh) out of heaven”. (NASB)

And Zechariah 3:2 says....
“The Lord (Yahweh) said to Satan, “The Lord (Yahweh) rebuke you, Satan! Indeed, the Lord (Yahweh) who has chosen Jerusalem rebuke you! Is this not a brand plucked from the fire?”

In what manner was Yahweh speaking here? Was it directly, or was Yahweh speaking though a representative? Do we have any examples where Yahweh spoke through a representative and spoke as if it was Yahweh himself speaking?
One that comes to mind is the appearance of three angels who came to Abraham to inform him of the birth of his son Isaac. (Gen 18) One of those angels spoke as if he was Yahweh, but we know that this is an impossibility because “no man has ever seen God” (John 1:18) So a representative of the true God can speak on his behalf....and that is what God’s prophets were....they spoke Yahweh’s words to his human servants.
Jesus was also a representative of his Father.....his title “Logos” can mean “one who speaks God’s words”...which he did on every occasion.......
“So Jesus answered them and said, “My teaching is not Mine, but His who sent Me.”

So there is an explanation.....

 

[GodsGrace]

If one believes that only Christians are saved (wanna take a poll on THAT subject?), then the definition of Christian IS about salvation.

So spit it out Lambano....
Do YOU believe only Christians are saved?

Others besides Christians can be saved.
Paul said so. I have the verses, too late now.

Point is: A person that does not accept that Jesus is God CANNOT be called a Christian.
It's the very core of Christianity !