The "watch rapture view"

[ewq1938]

It is the day of wrath which is one year long. That is why the day of the Lord's vengeance is the YEAR of recompenses.

There is not a single verse in the bible that says the wrath of God is one year long. The verses posted do not say that, nor are they even related to each other.

 

[The Light]

There is not a single verse in the bible that says the wrath of God is one year long. The verses posted do not say that, nor are they even related to each other.

I just posted one. Isaiah 34:8 and it ties directly to the 6th seal. Period.

Isaiah 61
2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;

Isaiah 63
4 For the day of vengeance is in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is come.

All I can do is post the scriptures that show that the day of vengeance is one year.

The reason you can't see the obvious is that it does not fit your timeline. You pick and choose the things that you want to believe and then skip the scriptural facts.

You don't accept that Jesus tells us what will happen in the first six seals in Matthew 24 and John confirms this exactly. When those seals are actually opened the events will happen.......in order. You can't accept this because you claim that the seals are already opened. If that were the case, we would know who the 7th king and 1st Antichrist is, but we don't know that.

Then you pretend that the 7 trumpets and 7 vials are not the 7th seal wrath of God. You think that the kings of the earth and rich men are hiding in caves and the clefts of the rocks because they fear 30 minutes of silence in heaven. Does that make any sense?

Everything fits perfectly together and yet you find it necessary to skip half of the it and pick and choose what you want to believe.

This makes no sense.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Nothing flawed about that. The trumpets are the wrath of God.

The vials are the wrath of God. Both take place in the 7th seal.

That is what the Word of God says. Do you claim the wrath of God is NOT one year?

Isaiah 34
8 For it is the day of the Lord's vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.

Isaiah 61
2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;

I think, as usual, I will go with the Word of God on this one.

You are trying to section my point.
During the "one year wrath " the flying locusts are released.

So, during the one year wrath, you have placed the 144,000 walking around and the flying scorpions unable to sting them.

Problem is, the 144,000 are in Heaven mid trib ( mid 7 year trib) ..... At Rev 14;1

BEFORE THE WRATH BEGINS.

That is what it says.

 

[rebuilder 454]

There is an order to Revelation. To understand it, you must understand what you are reading.

Again. Revelation 6-11 is read in order. Exception is the first part of Revelation 7 which is the sealing of the 144,000.

At the end of Revelation 11, the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord. Armageddon is over and it is a time of judgement.

When you are reading Revelation 13 and 14 you are in the 1st six seals.

When you are reading Revelation 15 you are in the time period of Revelation 7 and the 1st part of Revelation 5.

When you are reading Revelation 16 you are in the time period of Revelation 8-11.

So yes, there is an order to Revelation. To see it you must understand what you are reading.

I never said there was no order.
I said parts are not in CHROLOLOGICAL ORDER.
Conversely....SOME PARTS ARE.

IT IS A NO BRAINER.

 

[rebuilder 454]

That's because the two witnesses are witnessing during the wrath of God, the Great tribulation and before the great tribulation. That will not make sense to you........however.


The 144,000 are gathered pre wrath which is also post trib as the tribulation of those days is over at the 6th seal.

The 144,000 are not on the earth during the wrath of God. It looks like they are sealed to go through the wrath of God, but they are not. I'll attempt to explain below.


Yes. The seventh seal is the trumpets and vials of wrath.

Nope. The 6th seal is the coming of Jesus for the second harvest before the wrath of God.

Those 144,000 are sealed somewhere in the 1st four seals and likely just before or just after the 1st seal is opened.

How do we know that the 144,000 are sealed before the 5th seal? Because the 5th seal is the great tribulation and we can see the great tribulation in Revelation 14.

Revelation 14
13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

Here is the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal in Revelation 14
Revelation 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

So the 144,000 DO NOT go through the wrath of God and we can see in Revelation 14 that wrath has not begun yet.

Revelation 14
19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

Additionally, we know that there is a harvest at the 6th seal. The 144,000 are first fruits of this harvest and will not be on the earth when the harvest at the 6th seal occurs.



As shown above the 144,000 are already in heaven before the 6th seal is opened as they are the first fruits of the harvest that occurs at the 6th seal.



I know as shown earlier.


To understand Revelation, you need to understand what you are reading as Revelation gives two views of the 1st 6 seals and two views of the 7th seal wrath of God (trumpets and vials)

The 144,000 and the locusts prove my timeline as the locusts are in the wrath of God and the 144,000 are in heaven before the 5th seal as shown above. Additionally, the 144,000 are first fruits of the harvest that occurs at the 6th seal and therefore cannot be on the earth when the 7th seal is opened.



No reframing.

The coming of Jesus at the 6th seal immediately after the tribulation of those days just after the sun and moon are darkened and stars fall from heaven is the second coming.

Jesus remains in the clouds. He sends His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth. The Church is gathered from heaven and mostly Jews are gathered from the earth. All return to heaven as the great multitude seen in Rev 7 for the marriage supper and remain in heaven during the one year wrath of God. After the year, the armies of heaven return at the end of the 7th seal which is the 7th trumpet and 7th vial.


FACT. Jesus returns in power and great glory immediately after the tribulation of those days. The sun and moon are darkened and stars fall from heaven.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

FACT. When the 6th seal is opened the sun and moon are darkened and the stars fall from heaven.

Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

FACT. The seventh seal is the wrath of God. At end of the 7th seal, Jesus returns with the armies of heaven for Armageddon.

FACT. The coming of Jesus at the 6th seal in power and great glory for a harvest is not the coming of Jesus on white horses at the end of the 7th seal.

Huh?
Do you check things out before posting ?

Rev 6:12 is THE SIXTH SEAL.
We have Jesus SITTING ON THE THRONE IN HEAVEN WITH WRATH ON THE EARTH.
Rev 6
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
....while Jesus is sitting on the throne in heaven.
Then in Rev 7 the 144,000 are sealed against the flying scorpions.
Again while Jesus is in heaven.
Then in REV 19, Further INTO YOUR 1 YR WRATH, we see the scorpions commanded not to sting the 144,000.

So, again, you have the already gathered 144,000, ( from rev14) , back on earth during what you call the 1 year wrath.

Again your timeline is way way off.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Revelation 14:14-20 is not the same a Revelation 19:11-21.

Yes, it is. Jesus will not be treading His enemies in the winepress of the wrath of God more than once.

Honestly, it's just ridiculous for you to deny that these verses are talking about the same event...

Revelation 14:19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. 20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.

Revelation 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Revelation 14:14-20 occurs at the 6th seal immediately after the tribulation and BEFORE the wrath of God.

LOL. Do you not think that Revlation 14:18-20 describes the wrath of God? Look at verse 19 that I quoted above. It even explicitly refers to the wrath of God occurring when Revelation 14:14-20 is fulfilled. What do you mean that is talking about something occurring BEFORE the wrath of God? LOL!

 

[ewq1938]

I just posted one. Isaiah 34:8 and it ties directly to the 6th seal. Period.

Isaiah 61
2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;

That speaks of a certain day in a year, not a year long wrath.

Isaiah 63
4 For the day of vengeance is in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is come.

Same concept

All I can do is post the scriptures that show that the day of vengeance is one year.

No verse says that.

Then you pretend that the 7 trumpets and 7 vials are not the 7th seal wrath of God.

No one agrees with that.

You think that the kings of the earth and rich men are hiding in caves and the clefts of the rocks because they fear 30 minutes of silence in heaven. Does that make any sense?

You are conflating two dif seals. The wrath of God is described in the 6th seal but not in the 7th.

Everything fits perfectly together and yet you find it necessary to skip half of the it and pick and choose what you want to believe.

This makes no sense.

You think your interp fits perfectly. So does everyone who's interp is completely wrong.

 

[Douggg]

Is everyone here watching for the rapture ?

 

[Davy]

Is everyone here watching for the rapture ?

Those who are WATCHING the SIGNS of the END Lord Jesus gave His Church in His Olivet discourse are watching for the "caught up" event that Apostle Paul taught about those of us still alive on earth when Jesus comes AFTER... the tribulation.

But I don't know what... in the world YOU are watching, since you appear to reject the SIGNS which Jesus gave His Church to WATCH for the END.

 

[ewq1938]

Is everyone here watching for the rapture ?

Watching for major events that happen before the rapture that Paul wrote about such as the falling away/Apostasy and the revealing of the man of sin.

 

[The Light]

You are trying to section my point.
During the "one year wrath " the flying locusts are released.

So, during the one year wrath, you have placed the 144,000 walking around and the flying scorpions unable to sting them.

Problem is, the 144,000 are in Heaven mid trib ( mid 7 year trib) ..... At Rev 14;1

BEFORE THE WRATH BEGINS.

That is what it says.

I do not have the 144,000 on the earth during the wrath of God. They are first fruits of the second harvest.

I also do not have those of the second harvest which occurs at the 6th seal on earth during the wrath of God.

Believers are not appointed to wrath.

At the end of the age, which is the sixth seal, the second coming occurs. Then the 7th seal is opened and the wrath of God begins.

Only the two witnesses, the woman Israel (those that fled to a place of protection) and unbelievers are on the earth during Gods wrath.

 

[The Light]

Huh?
Do you check things out before posting ?

Rev 6:12 is THE SIXTH SEAL.
We have Jesus SITTING ON THE THRONE IN HEAVEN WITH WRATH ON THE EARTH.
Rev 6
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
....while Jesus is sitting on the throne in heaven.

The Word does not say that Jesus is sitting on the throne. The Word say that they want to hide from Him that sitteth on the throne.

This is what is happening at the 6th seal.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

At the 6th seal, Jesus has shown up with power and great glory. The kings and rich men etc. want to hide in caves. They know wrath is coming.

Then in Rev 7 the 144,000 are sealed against the flying scorpions.
Again while Jesus is in heaven.
Then in REV 19, Further INTO YOUR 1 YR WRATH, we see the scorpions commanded not to sting the 144,000.

You are misunderstanding what I am saying.

When those 144,000 are sealed, they are sealed earlier is the first 5 seals and likely just before or just after the first seal is opened.

The 5th seal is the great tribulation which is seen here in Revelation 14.

Revelation 14
13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

So we can conclude that the 144,000 have to be sealed before the fifth seal, as we can see them in heaven in the first part of Revelation 14.
This is proof that the 144,000 are sealed before the 5th seal and as I said, they are likely sealed right before or right after the 1st seal is opened.

The 144,000 are not sealed to go through the wrath of God they are sealed as believers and become first fruits of the harvest that occurs at the sixth seal which is seen here.

Revelation 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

So, again, you have the already gathered 144,000, ( from rev14) , back on earth during what you call the 1 year wrath.

Again your timeline is way way off.

Timeline is not off.

The 144,000 do not go through the wrath of God and are not on the earth when the locusts are stinging. They are NOT sealed to go through the wrath of God, they are sealed as believers and become first fruits sometime before the 5th seal as they are seen in heaven as first fruits in Rev 14.

 

[The Light]

Yes, it is. Jesus will not be treading His enemies in the winepress of the wrath of God more than once.

Honestly, it's just ridiculous for you to deny that these verses are talking about the same event...

Revelation 14:19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. 20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.

Revelation 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

I agree that Rev 14:19 is talking about the same event as Rev 19:15. So in that regard I was incorrect. But the point is, that the coming of Jesus in Revelation 14 is not the coming of Jesus when He returns on white horses in Revelation 19.

The righteous are gathered from the earth at the 6th seal, and the unrighteous are cast into the wrath of God which will begin when the 7th seal is opened. When the unrighteous are cast into the wrath of God, they are not cast straight into Armageddon. They are cast into the first trumpet/vial, followed by trumpets/vials two thru 6, before the great winepress occurs at Armageddon.

And we get another view of this when the unrighteous realize it is the time of wrath at the end of the events of the 6th seal.

Revelation 6
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

LOL. Do you not think that Revlation 14:18-20 describes the wrath of God? Look at verse 19 that I quoted above. It even explicitly refers to the wrath of God occurring when Revelation 14:14-20 is fulfilled. What do you mean that is talking about something occurring BEFORE the wrath of God? LOL!

The point is the coming of Jesus in Revelation 14 is the coming of Jesus that occurs at the 6th seal which is this coming.........

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

This is not the coming of Jesus on white horses for Armageddon. It is the coming of Jesus BEFORE the wrath of God. The righteous are gathered and taken to heaven and the unrighteous are cast into the wrath of God. So Jesus comes before wrath. The great tribulation is over, which is when the dragon is killing believers and God casts unbelievers into the wrath of God. Tribulation is not wrath.

The unbelievers do not go straight to Armageddon when they are cast into wrath, they go through the first 6 trumpets/vials before Jesus returns on white horses at Armageddon.

So the coming of Jesus in Revelation 14 is not the coming of Jesus in Revelation 19.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Those who are WATCHING the SIGNS of the END Lord Jesus gave His Church in His Olivet discourse are watching for the "caught up" event that Apostle Paul taught about those of us still alive on earth when Jesus comes AFTER... the tribulation.

But I don't know what... in the world YOU are watching, since you appear to reject the SIGNS which Jesus gave His Church to WATCH for the END.

Keep an eye out for the false christ...the ANTICHRIST.

I will harmonize with heaven, waiting for Jesus.

 

[Douggg]

So the coming of Jesus in Revelation 14 is not the coming of Jesus in Revelation 19.

Jesus, sickle in hand, will be the sign of the Son of man appearing in heaven, the sixth event of Revelation 6:12-17. The reaction will be that the kings of the earth for 45 days will gather their armies at Armageddon to prepare to make war on Jesus and His armies of heaven.



There is another factor that needs to be taken into consideration. Right before the sixth seal event takes place, in Daniel 11:40-44, the beast king and his armies occupying Israel will be attacked from the south, then north, then east. Why, we are not told, but I think it will be because the beast king will be directing all the middle east oil to His kingdom (the EU) and western allies of the U.S. and Canada.

So as those battles are going on, as all the armies of the world will have been drawn into the middle east, suddenly the sixth seal event takes place.... causing the fight to stop. And the kings of the earth ban together against the bigger threat of Jesus appearing in heaven, sickle in hand.

In Daniel 11:45, it says the beast king (implied) will make his final stand on the holy mount, between the seas - i.e. on the temple mount.

So at the end of the 45 days, descends descends to earth in Revelation 19, and carries out judgment on the kings of the earth and their armies. And casts the beast king and false prophet into the lake of fire.

 

[The Light]

Jesus, sickle in hand, will be the sign of the Son of man appearing in heaven, the sixth event of Revelation 6:12-17.

Then Jesus comes and sends His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth.......at the 6th seal. This is why there is a great multitude in heaven in Revelation 7. There is a harvest at the 6th seal as marked by the signs of the sun, moon and stars.

The reaction will be that the kings of the earth for 45 days will gather their armies at Armageddon to prepare to make war on Jesus and His armies of heaven.

I have explained many times how this is impossible. The locusts sting men for 5 months which is 150 days so your 45 theory does not work. If you are going to make a chart why make one that disagrees with scripture. And there is more time than just the 5 months. Scripture says there is a year between the 6th seal and the end of the 7th seal, last trumpet.

Revelation 9
5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.

View attachment 80265

There is another factor that needs to be taken into consideration. Right before the sixth seal event takes place, in Daniel 11:40-44, the beast king and his armies occupying Israel will be attacked from the south, then north, then east. Why, we are not told, but I think it will be because the beast king will be directing all the middle east oil to His kingdom (the EU) and western allies of the U.S. and Canada.

The EU is not the beast kingdom. The beast kingdom is a world wide one world government where no man can buy or sell. This kingdom will be under the United Nations as the rider on the white horse is given the Stephanos crown which is the symbol of the UN.

So as those battles are going on, as all the armies of the world will have been drawn into the middle east, suddenly the sixth seal event takes place.... causing the fight to stop. And the kings of the earth ban together against the bigger threat of Jesus appearing in heaven, sickle in hand.

Armageddon takes place at the end of the 7th seal which is one year after the 6th seal.

 

[Douggg]

Then Jesus comes and sends His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth.......at the 6th seal. This is why there is a great multitude in heaven in Revelation 7. There is a harvest at the 6th seal as marked by the signs of the sun, moon and stars.

No, the great multitude in heaven are the martyred great tribulation saints in the fifth seal that request Jesus to avenge their deaths in Revelation 6:10. See my chart below for the fifth seal.

In the sixth seal is Jesus, sickle in hand, to carry out their request.

I have explained many times how this is impossible. The locusts sting men for 5 months which is 150 days so your 45 theory does not work. If you are going to make a chart why make one that disagrees with scripture. And there is more time than just the 5 months. Scripture says there is a year between the 6th seal and the end of the 7th seal, last trumpet.

The flesh tormenting locust creatures, tormenting men for five months, is before the 45 days takes place. Where the 45 days comes from is the difference in the 1290 days and 1335 days of Daniel 12:11.

The EU is not the beast kingdom. The beast kingdom is a world wide one world government where no man can buy or sell. This kingdom will be under the United Nations as the rider on the white horse is given the Stephanos crown which is the symbol of the UN.

The little horn person and the ten kings of Daniel 7 are of the fourth kingdom in Daniel 7. The fourth kingdom in Daniel 7 is the Roman Empire. The EU is the Roman Empire manifested the end times.

Armageddon takes place at the end of the 7th seal which is one year after the 6th seal.

Armageddon is in Revelation 16:16. when the sixth vial of God's wrath is poured out in Revelation 16:12-16... shown in the lower right hand corner of the chart below.

 

[ewq1938]

Then Jesus comes and sends His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth.......at the 6th seal.

No, the gathering by angels (the rapture) happens at the 7th/last trump.

 

[Davy]

Why, we are not told, but I think it will be because the beast king will be directing all the middle east oil to His kingdom (the EU) and western allies of the U.S. and Canada.

By that statement above, you just revealed your alignment with Communist-Leftist policy against the Christian West.

God's Word reveals the Revelation 'beast' will rule from JERUSALEM, not the E.U., nor by any western Christian nation.

 

[Douggg]

By that statement above, you just revealed your alignment with Communist-Leftist policy against the Christian West.

God's Word reveals the Revelation 'beast' will rule from JERUSALEM, not the E.U., nor by any western Christian nation.

The resurrection/rapture event will evacuate Christians from the earth before the person becomes the beast in Revelation.

The beast will rule from Jerusalem, but his army will be from the EU.

Revelation 11;2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.