IF YOU THINK YOU HAVE TO KEEP THE SABBATH THEN CONSIDER THIS

[Button]

"Students of the Bible" - this is how specifically Jehovah Witnesses call themselves. They do not call themselves Christians, because they reject basic Christian doctrines.

Actually,the JW's were first known as Bible Students.


I'm not JW.

If you are a Jehovah Witness, you do not belong here, this is "Christians only" section of the board.

Bigots are open sinners.
And as I said, Seyo,was debating two people who are not students of the Bible. Or,those who study scripture so to know what there is to discuss.

 

[HealthyShape]

Actually,the JW's were first known as Bible Students.


I'm not JW.

Bigots are open sinners.
And as I said, Seyo,was debating two people who are not students of the Bible. Or,those who study scripture so to know what there is to discuss.

What church are you from, to call people bigots?

 

[Button]

Now you are talking about his body. Jesus spoke of his body as being a temple......................[John 2:19 KJV] "Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up."
[John 2:20 KJV] "Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?"
[John 2:21 KJV] "But he spake of the temple of his body."......................that is a far cry then saying in 70AD Jesus destroyed the physical temple. Jesus never said he would destroy the physical temple building (the temple made with hands) but false witnesses said he did...............[Mark 14:56 KJV] "For many bare false witness against him, but their witness agreed not together."
[Mark 14:57 KJV] "And there arose certain, and bare false witness against him, saying,"
[Mark 14:58 KJV] "We heard him say, I will destroy this temple that is made with hands, and within three days I will build another made without hands."

I see you don't understand what those verses are saying.

Jesus was not there in 70AD.Ergo,he was not talking about destroying the temple in his time there.
He was the temple.

While when he referred to the stone temple the Jews worshipped in,he was right there too.
If God protected it,the Romans would have failed to destroy it.

You still havent proved your claim Jesus destroyed the temple in 70AD, once again, can you show me this from scripture?

The Roman army ,under General Titus,destroyed the second temple .

You are deeply unaware of the New Testament. And the timeline of Jesus.
You also are trying to deny all that Jesus accomplished.

 

[Wrangler]

If you are a Jehovah Witness, you do not belong here, this is "Christians only" section of the board.

LOL. That's your refrain now when you lose an argument; "You're not a real Christian and shouldn't even be on these boards." I'm looking forward to Sabbath this weekend.

 

[HealthyShape]

LOL. That's your refrain now when you lose an argument; "You're not a real Christian and shouldn't even be on these boards." I'm looking forward to Sabbath this weekend.

Many people here, including you, reject basic Christian doctrines and common Christian teachings and still deceive others with the label "Christian" and are very active in the "Christian Only" section of this board. Plenty of Jehovah Witnesses and similar other sectarians. People without a church, teaching others what "real Christianity" is.

Moderators left this board to become a place in which categories lost their meaning. Do you have a church?

 

[Soyeong]

Jesus, the Holy Spirit and the Church teach us about who God is. Exodus is a book written specifically for Jews in Babylonia, to support their national identity. It is an interesting ancient reading and such, but it has no direct instructional meaning to modern days Christians.

Jesus, the Holy Spirit, and the Church teaching us about who God is doesn't mean that the OT doesn't also teach us about who God is. Everything that teaches us about who God is is relevant to followers of God.

Do you have the Holy Spirit? Do you have a church? These are simple yes/no questions.

Yes. Yes.

For the good of the Jews, not for "our" good. Do not include us into the Old Covenant of Israel.

Jews have the role of being a light and a blessing to the nations. The Torah is God's instructions for how to live blessed lives by walking in His way (Psalm 119:1-3), so the way that children of Abraham are multiplied and are a blessing to the nations in accordance with inheriting the promise through faith is by turning the nations from their wickedness and by teaching them how to walk in His way in accordance with spreading the Gospel.

You do not understand the context. At all.

Then by all means please explain it.

 

[Button]

LOL. That's your refrain now when you lose an argument; "You're not a real Christian and shouldn't even be on these boards." I'm looking forward to Sabbath this weekend.

Amen.

 

[HealthyShape]

Yes. Yes.

What church?

Jews have the role of being a light and a blessing to the nations.

No, the Church has this role.

Then by all means please explain it.

The point of the story is that Jesus is greater than Sabbath and so His disciples could break it. Sabbath does not rule over the Son of Man and over His disciples.

 

[Doug]

3. You have several mistaken assumptions, based on your incorrect previous a priori (bias), that you read into the text, when you ask your 'questions', which are more intended as 'gotchas' rather than sincere and earnest inquiry. Change this, and you will be able to better understand (Pro. 18:13,17 KJB) the answers.

you are justified to search out what I say according to proverbs but just do it by making sure what I say is from scripture and what I teach conforms to it and not by what you only believe a scripture is saying. Check and see if I provide supporting scriptures for what I say.

I dont set out to gotcha anybody. I am only showing them and you what I think of the verses cited or beliefs expounded. What I teach doesnt have to be accepted

 

[Doug]

The sabbath sacred work is not only for 'emergencies'

These posts are usually off the cuff and upon review lots could be improved or more inclusive. I was only trying to say that the sabbath was not just the individual resting from work, but others in his scope. What was meant was that there were exemptions in others laboring for you; Jesus made exceptions to reflect the true meaning of the sabbath by healing etc. For instance, we dont have to go to a restaurant on the sabbath and make others work for us; we dont have to keep the sabbath and deprive someone of their wages.

 

[Soyeong]

What church?

Beth Immanuel.

No, the Church has this role.

Then the Church should be teaching to follow God's instructions for how to be blessed rather than against doing that. The Greek word "ekklesia" is translated as "church" and is first used in the Septuagint to refer to Israel at Pentecost, so that is the Church.

The point of the story is that Jesus is greater than Sabbath and so His disciples could break it. Sabbath does not rule over the Son of Man and over His apostles.

There are a number of instances where some of God's laws appear to conflict with each other, such as when God commanded to rest on the Sabbath while also commanding priests to make offerings on the Sabbath (Numbers 28:9-10), however, it was not the case that priests were forced to sin by disobeying one of those commands no matter what they chose to do, but that the lesser command was never intended to be understood as preventing the greater command from being obeyed. This is why Jesus said in Matthew 12:5-7 that priests who did their duties on the Sabbath were held innocent, why David and his men were held innocent, and why he defended his disciples as being innocent. This is also why it is lawful to get an ox out of a ditch on the Sabbath, to circumcise a baby on the 8th day if it happens to fall on the Sabbath, and so forth.

Some Pharisees had reasoned that it is unlawful to do work on the Sabbath and that healing is work, therefore it is unlawful to heal on the Sabbath. However, we are also commanded to love our neighbor as ourselves, we would not be doing that if we refused to heal them, and no command was intended to be understood as preventing us from obeying the greatest two commandments, which is why it was lawful for Jesus to heal on the Sabbath. The Sabbath is a precious gift from God made for our good, so it was not intended to bring about situations that are to our detriment.

 

[lforrest]

Regarding SAVED Christians…
* every Day is a Day for they IN Christ to Rest IN Christ Jesus
and
*every Day is a Day for praise to the Lord God
and
* every Day (the Lord hath made) is a suitable Day to commune (Pray to the Lord God).

Yes, and I believe the day of rest foreshadows the millennial kingdom. As the feasts foreshadowed other events surrounding Jesus.

The Sabbath is also reminder to work while we still can, because time is short and once we die we can no longer work in this world.

Additionally the hardness of people's hearts would have us working 7 days a week if they could. God needed to make a law to prevent that exploitation.

 

[Wrangler]

For instance, we dont have to go to a restaurant on the sabbath and make others work for us

I’ve been thinking of that interpretation. Scripture say you shall not make your servant work on the Sabbath.

I’m not sure that extends to those who are not your servants, including in business for themselves plumbers, restaurant owners, carpenters, etc.

To a certain extent, this is a bit like direct and indirect taxes. The restaurant is not open specifically for us. And this is fundamentally different from a servant who we pay directly to do work specifically for us. Thoughts?

 

[HealthyShape]

Then the Church should be teaching to follow God's instructions for how to be blessed rather than against doing that.

God's instructions for the Church are different from the Old Covenant instructions for the ancient Israel. You just did not update your notes.

The Greek word "ekklesia" is translated as "church" and is first used in the Septuagint to refer to Israel at Pentecost, so that is the Church.

The same Greek term can have different meanings depending on the context. Not everyone who is called from the outside world is a part of the Christ's bride - the New Testament church.

The Sabbath is a precious gift from God made for our good, so it was not intended to bring about situations that are to our detriment.

Who worked on Sabbath was supposed to be killed, stoned to death. This seems quite detrimental, don't you think? Almost all Sabbath proponents try to make Sabbath something like a nice pleasant advice, even for our health or what. While the reality is that it was a religious sign between the nation of Israel and God, similar to circumcision. With harsh demands and harsh punishments.

These ceremonial shadows are put aside in the New Covenant.

 

[Doug]

The issue of whether followers of Christ should follow his example of keeping the Sabbath holy is different from the issue of whether someone is correctly doing that, but yes we should also follow God's instructions for how to keep it holy

Paul, our apostle, never says to follow Christ's example of keeping the sabbath.

So you are saying that we should keep the sabbath but it can be obeyed incorrectly. How is that keeping the sabbath

 

[Doug]

The destruction of Jerusalem and of the temple was not some kind of independent accident which God just witnessed.

Of course it was God's doing, it was the "coming wrath", the punishment of Israel Jesus and John the Baptist and the apostles were warning about through the gospels and throughout the New Testament.

I am sending you prophets and sages and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town.
And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. Truly I tell you, all this will come on this generation.
Mt 23:34-36

"John said to the crowds coming out to be baptized by him, “You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath?
...The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.”
Lk 3:7-9

Jesus replied. “But I say to all of you: From now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”
Mt 26:64 (coming on the clouds of heaven means judgement)

Or read The Parable of the Tenants in Mark 12.

Still no verse saying Jesus would destroy any temple at anytime, no scripture that says Jesus did destroy the temple in 70AD
You must have scripture to say what you say, where is the scripture?

 

[HealthyShape]

Still no verse saying Jesus would destroy any temple at anytime, no scripture that says Jesus did destroy the temple in 70AD
You must have scripture to say what you say, where is the scripture?

We already went through this. Prophecies do not state specific dates. When I say that God destroyed Jerusalem and the temple in 70 AD, it is a summary of what happened, not a quotation.

You simply need to put 1 and 1 together.

 

[Soyeong]

Paul, our apostle, never says to follow Christ's example of keeping the sabbath.

So you are saying that we should keep the sabbath but it can be obeyed incorrectly. How is that keeping the sabbath

Christ set a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to the Mosaic Law, which included keeping the Sabbath holy, and we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22), that those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way that he walked (1 John 2:6), and to be imitators of Paul as he is of Christ (1 Corinthians 11:1). Christ quoted three times from Deuteronomy in order to defeat the temptations of Satan, which included saying that man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that comes from the mouth of God, so he affirmed God as being an authoritative source, which included affirming what God spoke in Deuteronomy 5:12-15 in regard to keeping the Sabbath holy, and we have no need for Paul to have specifically repeated everything that God has spoken in order to know that we should still live by every word that comes from the mouth of God. Not keeping the Sabbath correctly is not keeping it.

 

[Button]

Still no verse saying Jesus would destroy any temple at anytime, no scripture that says Jesus did destroy the temple in 70AD
You must have scripture to say what you say, where is the scripture?

That's some fixation you have there.

Too bad you refuse to accept the temple Jesus actually did say would be destroyed and risen again in three days.

He was standing in front of the temple when he said this of course.
He was referring to his body first. And that man made structures fall,brick for brick,later. Which occurred in 70 AD.

 

[Adventageous]

What church are you from? Your refusal to answer says a lot.

And it seems you do not understand what you are reading. Or you do not care, as long as you see some words you like in it.

My fathers surely were not under the cloud and did not pass through the Red Sea. Cannot you understand that Paul is talking specifically to Jews, here?

You do not know your scripture, for it was not just "jews" that left Egypt and went through the Red Sea, but Israelites, Hebrews, and Gentiles amongst the "mixed multitude", "mixt multitude" (Exo. 12:38: Num. 11:4 KJB), and people like Moses' wife, Zipporah (Exo. 2:21, 4:25, 18:2), who was of Midian, and the "stranger" (Exo. 12:49) that sojurned among them the whole time, of the Gentiles, as some were Egyptian, etc.

Exo_12:38 And a mixed multitude went up also with them; and flocks, and herds, even very much cattle.​

Num_11:4 And the mixt multitude that was among them fell a lusting: and the children of Israel also wept again, and said, Who shall give us flesh to eat?​

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Exo_12:49 One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.​

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Exo_2:15 Now when Pharaoh heard this thing, he sought to slay Moses. But Moses fled from the face of Pharaoh, and dwelt in the land of Midian: and he sat down by a well.​

Exo_2:16 Now the priest of Midian had seven daughters: and they came and drew water, and filled the troughs to water their father's flock.​

Exo_18:2 Then Jethro, Moses' father in law, took Zipporah, Moses' wife, after he had sent her back,​

The commandment itself also speaks of the "stranger":

Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:​

We know that "mixed multitude" are not purely Israel, for later the same words are used in Nehemiah:

Neh_13:3 Now it came to pass, when they had heard the law, that they separated from Israel all the mixed multitude.​

So, "our fathers" in 1 Cor. 10 is not just to the "jews", as you have so very incorrectly stated. 1 Cor. 10 is for all Christians, all followers of Christ (that Rock that was with them all in the wilderness), even now, for history repeats (Ecc. 1:9, 3:15 KJB):

1Co 10:6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.​

1Co 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.​

They were all tested:

Exo 16:4 Then said the LORD unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a certain rate every day, that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or no.​

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Exo 16:23 And he said unto them, This is that which the LORD hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning.​

​

Exo 16:28 And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?​

We are all to be tested in the same:

Rev 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,​

Rev 14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.​

Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.​

Rev 14:8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.​

Rev 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,​

Rev 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:​

Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.​

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.​

Luk 4:16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.​

Luk 4:17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,​

Luk 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, ​

Luk 4:19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.​

Luk 4:20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.​

Luk 4:21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.​

You do not know scripture, and should not be teaching, sharing on it, as you are. You need to go and learn the basics again.