The sons of God

[amigo de christo]

To whom else (such man)it applies…

Job 38:
[4] Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.

[7] When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?


The morning stars…
Holy Lucifer…
The Holy Word of God (no name yet revealed)
Both called sons of God…

And the rest of the heavenly host (other Angels)… also watching Gods Creation and Making Earth and it’s Elements for its inhabitants….to bee revealed.

An exciting time… for Angels…
Pondering… “their Purpose”… being unfolding before their eyes…

Holy Ministering Spirits to Terrestrial humans.

Lucifer… missed the mark.
His “Making” has changed, according to his FREEWILL choices.

Glory to God,
Taken

Lucifer missed the mark and desires only the death of all .
And its why he gonna point all to this ecumenical interfaith interreligious dialgoue .
For to beleive a lie . Oh i seen what his co workers told the false religions and christendom
and beleive me , IT WAS A LIE . With a promise of this is how we can attain peace n safety of the world .
It wont be peace n safety unto all who bought it ON the DAY OF the LORD GOD ALL MIGHTY and OF HIS CHRIST .

 

[WPM]

No. Not at all! You lack understanding what Isaiah 14 talks about.

There was NEVER an angel named lucifer in heaven. You cannot find one single scripture that says Lucifer was what men call an angel, nor is he ever called an angel. Frankly, that is the eisegesis (not exegesis) of men who do not understand that the scriptures are Spiritual books full of imagery, typology, representations, symbolism, and metaphors. i.e., the bondwoman and the freewoman of history are used of God as a "representation" of congregations of works and grace--the true congregation and the false. Likewise, Isaiah's chapter 14 is a vivid historical representation or simile of a deeper spiritual truth illustrated in the king of Babylon. Lucifer loosely means morning star. Stars are representations of those of the congregation (see Revelation). In fact, he is literally called [ben shachar], or son of the morning illustrating light. This is NOT because he is an angel, but because he is God's messenger bringing judgment upon the unfaithful. Why do we suppose Revelation 18 illustrates so vividly the fall of the congregation and is so closely identified with Babylon, humm? Because of the sinful man rules there in place of God. He is also known as the man of sin or the man of lawlessness, which is man ruled over by Satan.

Moreover, Revelation chapter 12 illustrates what is meant by messengers being cast out of heaven when Christ was born, and it is NOT angels dropping out of the sky. It illustrated the defeat of Satan by Christ and those messengers he ruled over coming under judgment where they no longer are represented in the Kingdom of Heaven. The exact same illustration Christ put forth when He sent the 70 out with the gospel. What did the say when they came back?

Luke 10:16-18

• "He that heareth you heareth me; and he that despiseth you despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me.
• And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.
• And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven."

Christ beheld Satan fall from literal heaven? Did anyone there see the Devil or his angels falling out of the sky? Of course not! Because the language "represents" something deeper, spiritual, and symbolic. His defeat of Satan where his captives are freed, and his messengers judged. The same with Isaiah:

Isaiah 14:12

• "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!"

Almost the exact same language because it's talking about the same phenomenon of the completion of warfare and judgment of messengers. It "represented" the fall of those that did weaken the nations.

For informational purposes, the name Lucifer is actually mentioned only one time in the Bible, and that only in reference to the King of Babylon, who is used as a synonym for man ruling the people of God "as if" he were God, and how God ultimately brings judgment upon him for his rebellion in usurping the role of Jehovah. When Isaiah 14 says the king of Babylon (Lucifer) has fallen from heaven, it illustrates his abandonment of the laws of the kingdom of heaven. It doesn't mean that the King of Babylon, called Lucifer or Nimord, was actually in heaven, Selah! This is also reiterated by the very next verse which says that in this King's heart he wanted to exalt his throne above the stars. "Meaning" that he wanted to rule the congregation "as if" he were God. Get it? The same scenario as 2nd Thessalonians 2 where we read of the same sinful man who opposed God and exalted himself so that (effectively) he was sitting to rule in the temple of God as man (Revelation 2:4). This is the exact same scenario as is written in Isaiah 14:

Isaiah 14:13

• "For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:"

He was a man wanting to rule the kingdom of God's congregation, as if he were God.

As for the Ezekiel reference, again it is the very same portrait of God condemning man for exalting himself to sit and rule "as if" he were God:

Ezekiel 28:2

• "Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:"

As in Isaiah 14, this passage refers to a man, represented by the Prince of Tyrus, and it is also used as a Spiritual allegory or portrait of sinful man as he rules in the congregation of God, and how God ultimately brings judgment upon him for his rebellion in usurping the role of God.

Selah!

• Was the king of Tyrus an "anointed cherub" (Ezekiel 28:14&16)?
• Was he at one time in the "Paradise of God" (Ezekiel 28:13)?
• Did he protect "the holy mountain of God" (Ezekiel 28:14)?
• Was he created "perfect" in his ways "from the day" he was "created" till "iniquity was found in" him (Ezekiel 28:15)?
• Do you not believe in the total depravity of man any more?

 

[Douggg]

Assumption, the mother of all false doctrine! Prove what you allege from the Word of God, rather than trying to force an assumption upon the Word of God that serves only to contradict and confuse.

12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.

13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In Revelation 12:7-9, Satan will be cast out of the second heaven, down to earth. Revelation 12:12, woe to the inhabiters of the earth.

 

[rwb]

12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.

13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.

How does posting these verses prove that king Tyrus is a code name for Satan as you allege?

 

[Taken]

You seem to sincerely desire to understand the Word of God, and that is a noble desire that I would encourage you to continue with. The reason I ask you specific questions is because you first made an assumption
that Lucifer is Satan,

No, don’t assume. Already knew, but if quoting Scriptures, look them up. I do not know all Verses, passage numbers by memory.

Lucifer… has many names, titles, descriptions… like also does God/ angels / men…
And In Scripture “particular”, Names, titles, descriptions are “Specific”… according to Context… same for angels and men….

Like for example… Donald Trump…
I would not call him Donald…but others can.
I would call him Mr. President…
And others can call him that, OR boss, OR dad, OR uncle, OR G-pa, OR neighbor, … but I wouldn’t.

and then you looked to the Bible to prove what you assume.

No. To verify for correctness, when sharing.
And sometimes for correct spelling, as I is not da goodest speler.

That's not how to learn FROM the Bible, it is reading into the Bible.

Fully aware.

In doing this one can make the Bible say almost anything they want it to say. With the questions, I hoped you would see how assuming Lucifer to be Satan causes contradiction, and confusion into the Word of God. I would hope that you understand that the Bible, God's Word to man cannot contradict itself.

I look for the proper name per context…Lucifer, Satan, Serpent, Devil, etc.

It is not possible for Lucifer to be Satan and when you can answer the questions I've asked, I hope you will know why.

That is akin to saying…
Sue Brown… married John Jones.
Sue Brown is no longer Sue Brown, she IS Sue Jones.

Sue Brown is still the same person… but her name and status from single to married has changed.

Lucifer was a holy Angel…His named changed to Satan, his status changed from holy to fallen.

Circumstances changed and his identifier changed…but Satan’s Origin WAS Lucifer a holy Angel.

Indeed, All Glory to God alone

Amen!

 

[Taken]

You're contradicting yourself. You just answered "absolutely not" to my question: "Can you biblically prove Satan called the morning star (Lucifer) is ever identified as being the root and offspring of David, and the bright and morning star?"

No.

Why would “I” try to prove to you…Lucifer is the Offspring of David?
I never claimed that, nor believe that…

The Off-Spring of David…
* IS: STOCK, ie. natural Blood-Line geanologicai Descendants…ie. Israelites / tribes.
^ Does not apply to me.

*IS: ALSO, saved souls, quickened spirits, OF “accounted / or Physically mortal bodily dead men”.
^ Does apply to me…
- “forgiven” for having HAD not believed, and then confessed true belief.
- body “crucified” with Jesus’ body… my body already paid its DEBT, dying “FOR” my true belief IN the Lord God…
- soul already “restored”, Back to “good” as it was when God blew it into my body.
- spirit already “quickened” (born again) of Gods SEED.
Called having taken on the Seed of Christ, same as Abraham received…
Thus we share “a relationship being of the same spiritual family”.
^ That does not apply to Satan.
Applicability to Jesus…
Heb 10: (Jesus)
[16] For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

And remembering…Abraham was blessed …?
And Jesus was there with Abraham… receiving his Seed of God.
And honor given Abraham to be “an Earthly father of many Nations / People…”

Then in the next sentence you say Lucifer and Jesus are morning stars and Lucifer went against God "fell away"! Are you saying Satan is Lucifer a morning star with Jesus before he became Satan?

Yes … only two are referenced … morning stars / son of the dawn/ morning…
Jesus and Lucifer.
When arriving to Revelations…
One star is no longer mentioned (fallen, Lucifer, now SATAN)…
And one is mentioned… the “Bright Morning Star”.. Jesus…. Aka…the Light of man.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

How does posting these verses prove that king Tyrus is a code name for Satan as you allege?

It is very difficult to have a spiritual discussion on such a forum.
So much to establish … for the individual and Every Scriptural character in context.

Not unusual for “us”… my family to have a 4-5 hour face to face on one itty bitty topic.
Becomes easier when all are on the same page… thoughts.

Throughout Scripture… keeping in mind…
God is invisible…and repeatedly He uses Real Time characters, alive during ancient days, as Examples., for what God approves / or Disapproves, to get a spiritual point across to men alive at that time that can relate to a particular favorable or bad behavior of a familiar well known example.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You still don't get it.

What I get is that you are completely clueless when it comes to this topic. I get that perfectly.

I never said that a spirit of fallen man came to meet with Jesus in the desert. Can't you think carefully that Satan is an adversary spirit who have tried Christ for our understanding.

Who tempted Jesus in the desert? Give a clear, succinct answer to this question if you want to be taken seriously.

Yes, we see army of professed Christians with spirit of antichrist going as roaring lion for they have spirit of Satan. Your point is?

LOL. That is not how it is presented at all. You repeatedly, blatantly twist scripture to fit your beliefs and have no shame about it. It's ridiculous.

Twice? No. That’s simply careless reading.


Revelation 20:10 and 20:15 are not describing two separate events. They are describing the same final judgment from two angles.

LOL! Unbelievable. You truly have no shame. No, Revelation 20:10 and Revelation 20:15 are not describing the same final judgment. One describes the final judgment of Satan and the other describes the final judgment of those whose names are not written in the book of life.

And it’s ironic to accuse others of nonsense while claiming Satan is thrown into the lake of fire twice.

LOL! I did not claim that. Your reading comprehension skills, like many on this forum, are terrible. I was saying that you have fallen mankind being cast into the lake of fire twice because that's your understanding of both Revelation 20:10 and Revelation 20:15. But, now you're saying that you see those verses as referring to the same thing. Which is just plain ludicrous.

That’s not amillennialism — that’s confusion.

You are quite possibly the most confused person on this entire forum. The only contenders you have for that crown are the pretribs.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Exactly! Very well put. Talk about promoting nonsense. Fallen man could just soar up into heaven when he wished and communicate with God and then come back down again when he wished. What folly.

Pretrib is a credible doctrine compared to the complete nonsense that he is trying to promote here. It's truly unbelievable. Just utter nonsense of epic proportions.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Again, is this really something you don't know?

He's trying to see if you know where evil came from. Can you just stop acting like a child and answer his simple question? Your evasiveness says a lot about your beliefs. You clearly are not confident about your beliefs or else you would just answer the simple questions that you are asked instead of asking a question in response rather than just answering the question.

 

[Douggg]

How does posting these verses prove that king Tyrus is a code name for Satan as you allege?

In Ezekiel 28:16-17, it describes the king of Tyrus as a cherub (an angel) that God is going to destroy, and also cast him to the ground (down to earth), and expose him before kings, that they will actually see him.

In Revelation 12:7-9, Satan will be cast down to earth.

So there is plenty of biblical evidence that the king of Tyrus is a code name for Satan.

 

[TribulationSigns]

In Ezekiel 28:16-17, it describes the king of Tyrus as a cherub (an angel) that God is going to destroy, and also cast him to the ground (down to earth), and expose him before kings, that they will actually see him.

In Revelation 12:7-9, Satan will be cast down to earth.

So there is plenty of biblical evidence that the king of Tyrus is a code name for Satan.

You assumed wrong. You have been indoctrinate to believe that cherub must be literally an angel and is Satan. You have no clues on what cherub refers to. Go read the Bible Study below:

What Are Cherubim

 

[rwb]

In Ezekiel 28:16-17, it describes the king of Tyrus as a cherub (an angel) that God is going to destroy, and also cast him to the ground (down to earth), and expose him before kings, that they will actually see him.

In Revelation 12:7-9, Satan will be cast down to earth.

So there is plenty of biblical evidence that the king of Tyrus is a code name for Satan.

What is king Tyrus? Is he a the man God told Ezekiel speak to, or is Tyrus a spirit, Satan, who was an angel of God before he fell?

Ezekiel 28:2 (KJV) Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:

Where does the Bible ever tell us a cherub is an angel?

Rev 12 shows Satan was cast down to the earth when Christ was born. Read the whole context, not only vss 7-9 thinking they prove what you assume.

Revelation 12:1-9 (KJV) And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

You approach Scripture assuming that Lucifer is a fallen angel of God called Satan after he fell. Then you continue to make assumptions to prove the assumption you began with.

 

[rwb]

He's trying to see if you know where evil came from. Can you just stop acting like a child and answer his simple question? Your evasiveness says a lot about your beliefs. You clearly are not confident about your beliefs or else you would just answer the simple questions that you are asked instead of asking a question in response rather than just answering the question.

Then he should read what I've already explained and stop asking the same questions ad nauseum.

 

[Taken]

Are you saying Satan is Lucifer a morning star with Jesus before he became Satan?

Yes..

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

What is king Tyrus? Is he a the man God told Ezekiel speak to, or is Tyrus a spirit, Satan, who was an angel of God before he fell?

Ezekiel 28:2 (KJV) Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:

Where does the Bible ever tell us a cherub is an angel?

You're not recognizing that Ezekiel 28:2-10 refers to "the prince of Tyrus" while Ezekiel 28:12-19 refers to "the king of Tyrus". Yes, the prince of Tyrus was a man, but the king of Tyrus was not. The human prince of Tyrus was influenced by the evil, angelic king of Tyrus. Explain how a man could possibly be called the anointed cherub who protected the holy mountain of God and was created perfect in all his ways while being full of wisdom with perfect beauty? Like all people who have been born since Adam and Eve were created, the human ruler of Tyre would have been created with a sinful nature, so how could he be described as being created full of wisdom and perfect in all his ways? And why would a human being be called the anointed cherub who protected the holy mountain of God? And how could the human ruler of Tyre ever have been in the garden of Eden? What evidence do you have to show that a cherub is a human being?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Then he should read what I've already explained and stop asking the same questions ad nauseum.

Did you ever clearly explain to him directly that you believe evil came from God since you believe that God created evil?

 

[Douggg]

What is king Tyrus?

It does not say king Tyrus, but king of Tyrus. The king of Tyrus is a code name (code title) for Satan. The prince of Tyrus is a code name (code title) for the revealed man of sin. The revealed man of sin is a human. Satan is a fallen angel.

What is king Tyrus? Is he a the man God told Ezekiel speak to, or is Tyrus a spirit, Satan, who was an angel of God before he fell?

Ezekiel 28:2 (KJV) Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:

The prince of Tyrus is a code name (code title) for the revealed man of sin, who God will have assassinated for claiming to be God, 2Thessalonians2:3-4.

Ezekiel 28:2 Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:

2Thessalonians2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.


In Ezekiel 28:7-9, God has him assassinated for his sitting in the temple and claiming to be God .

Ezekiel 28:7 Behold, therefore I will bring strangers upon thee, the terrible of the nations: and they shall draw their swords against the beauty of thy wisdom, and they shall defile thy brightness.
8 They shall bring thee down to the pit, and thou shalt die the deaths of them that are slain in the midst of the seas.
9 Wilt thou yet say before him that slayeth thee, I am God? but thou shalt be a man, and no God, in the hand of him that slayeth thee.

 

[Douggg]

You assumed wrong. You have been indoctrinate to believe that cherub must be literally an angel and is Satan. You have no clues on what cherub refers to. Go read the Bible Study below:

Cherubs are a type of angel.

In Exodus 37, the two cherub figures were made and placed on the lid of the ark of the covenant.


7 And he made two cherubims of gold, beaten out of one piece made he them, on the two ends of the mercy seat;

8 One cherub on the end on this side, and another cherub on the other end on that side: out of the mercy seat made he the cherubims on the two ends thereof.

9 And the cherubims spread out their wings on high, and covered with their wings over the mercy seat, with their faces one to another; even to the mercy seatward were the faces of the cherubims.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Cherubs are a type of angel.

That is the best you can say?

Let read the Scripture:

Exo 37:1-9
(1) And Bezaleel made the ark of shittim wood: two cubits and a half was the length of it, and a cubit and a half the breadth of it, and a cubit and a half the height of it:
(2) And he overlaid it with pure gold within and without, and made a crown of gold to it round about.
(3) And he cast for it four rings of gold, to be set by the four corners of it; even two rings upon the one side of it, and two rings upon the other side of it.
(4) And he made staves of shittim wood, and overlaid them with gold.
(5) And he put the staves into the rings by the sides of the ark, to bear the ark.
(6) And he made the mercy seat of pure gold: two cubits and a half was the length thereof, and one cubit and a half the breadth thereof.
(7) And he made two cherubims of gold, beaten out of one piece made he them, on the two ends of the mercy seat;
(8) One cherub on the end on this side, and another cherub on the other end on that side: out of the mercy seat made he the cherubims on the two ends thereof.
(9) And the cherubims spread out their wings on high, and covered with their wings over the mercy seat, with their faces one to another; even to the mercy seatward were the faces of the cherubims.

Do you even understand why gold was used? Why there are two cherubim—one at each end? Why the mercy seat was made of pure gold? Why the cherubim spread their wings upward and overshadow the mercy seat? Why their faces look down toward it?

Do you understand the meaning behind any of that?

And yet, after all of that depth and detail, all you can say is, “Cherubs are a type of angel.”

That answer barely scratches the surface. It overlooks the symbolism, the holiness, the theology woven into every instruction. It feels less like careful study and more like a quick, shallow summary.

Frankly, it’s disappointing. This subject deserves far more reverence and thoughtful examination than that.