ISLAM IS NOT THE REVELATION BEAST

[Davy]

Like a map, time line charts of events show the relationship of how events will take place.

Thing is, your maps do NOT show the proper Biblical timelines. Your map is only supposition, and does not stay with Bible Scripture. Furthermore, you are not trying to map timelines of people or places, but prophecies, so your map analogy does not actually work.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I told you in my post above which covenant was being referred to in Jer 31:31ff and in Hebrews 8:6-7. That Covenant was the renewal of the Exodus covenant of a Kingdom of Priests, a Holy Nation and God's possession among the nations Covenant.

The covenant that God intends to renew with the Nation of Israel, in about 20 years' time from now, has been refined on the margins but it is still basically the same covenant.

If you read Hebrews 8:8-12, where Jeremiah 31:31-34 is quoted, then you would know that those passages are referring to the new covenant. The new covenant was established by the blood of Christ long ago. If you can't understand something as simple as that, I'm not sure that you can understand anything from scripture.

 

[Jay Ross]

If you read Hebrews 8:8-12, where Jeremiah 31:31-34 is quoted, then you would know that those passages are referring to the new covenant. The new covenant was established by the blood of Christ long ago. If you can't understand something as simple as that, I'm not sure that you can understand anything from scripture.

Then read it again and consider which covenant is being renewed with Israel? Is it not the covenant that they rebelled against while Moses was up on the mountain for 40 days?



Then in Jeremaih 31:23-40 Jeremiah tells us this: -



Perhaps you need to go back and meditate a little longer on the above portion of scripture and check to see if what you want the passage to convery is actually what the passage states.

Shalom

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Then read it again and consider which covenant is being renewed with Israel? Is it not the covenant that they rebelled against while Moses was up on the mountain for 40 days?

View attachment 83335

Then in Jeremaih 31:23-40 Jeremiah tells us this: -

View attachment 83339

Perhaps you need to go back and meditate a little longer on the above portion of scripture and check to see if what you want the passage to convery is actually what the passage states.

Shalom

The new covenant is not a renewed covenant. How about you read Hebrews 8 to 10 and allow the New Testament to explain the Old Testament scriptures for you so that you properly understand what the new covenant is all about? Do you deny that the new covenant was established by the blood of Christ?

 

[Jay Ross]

The new covenant is not a renewed covenant. How about you read Hebrews 8 to 10 and allow the New Testament to explain the Old Testament scriptures for you so that you properly understand what the new covenant is all about? Do you deny that the new covenant was established by the blood of Christ?

Hebrews 8 to 10 actually references the Covenant in Exodus 18-34 from memory. Jesus deliberately spoke of a renewal of the Testaments and Covenants and not of a "brand new covenant" that you wish to be true.

If you have not seen or connected the links and connections that you are only reading into the scriptures what you want to see.

That is your issue to resolve and not mine.

Goodbye

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Hebrews 8 to 10 actually references the Covenant in Exodus 18-34 from memory.

Jay, you are not even trying here. Hebrews 8:8-12 quotes Jeremiah 31:31-34 in relation to the new covenant. You obviously are making no effort to understand the truth of this matter and are trying to rely on your faulty memory of reading the Bible many years ago.

Jesus deliberately spoke of a renewal of the Testaments and Covenants and not of a "brand new covenant" that you wish to be true.

Nonsense. The new covenant was not in effect until Jesus shed His blood. He did not renew any covenant, He established the new covenant which Hebrews 8:6-7 says is better than the first, old covenant. If you deny that Jesus established the new covenant with His blood then I consider that heresy. So, do you deny that?

If you have not seen or connected the links and connections that you are only reading into the scriptures what you want to see.

That is your issue to resolve and not mine.

Goodbye

You are completely lacking in spiritual discernment and have a dire need to ask God for wisdom (James 1:5-7). So, I suggest you do so.

 

[covenantee]

Jay, you are not even trying here. Hebrews 8:8-12 quotes Jeremiah 31:31-34 in relation to the new covenant. You obviously are making no effort to understand the truth of this matter and are trying to rely on your faulty memory of reading the Bible many years ago.


Nonsense. The new covenant was not in effect until Jesus shed His blood. He did not renew any covenant, He established the new covenant which Hebrews 8:6-7 says is better than the first, old covenant. If you deny that Jesus established the new covenant with His blood then I consider that heresy. So, do you deny that?


You are completely lacking in spiritual discernment and have a dire need to ask God for wisdom (James 1:5-7). So, I suggest you do so.

Apparently Jay believes that when Jesus said...:

Matthew 26:28...For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

...He was either mistaken or lying.

 

[Jay Ross]

Jay, you are not even trying here. Hebrews 8:8-12 quotes Jeremiah 31:31-34 in relation to the new covenant. You obviously are making no effort to understand the truth of this matter and are trying to rely on your faulty memory of reading the Bible many years ago.

And verse Jer 31:32 states this and Heb 8:13 that the initial covenant referenced was made at Mt Sinai, and that in our near future, God will renew this same covenant with the nation of Israel. Please consider carefully the below passages: -



The next question that needs to be made is when will God renew this covenant with the nation of Israel. I would suggest to you that that will happen in around 20 years' time.

If that is the case, you are hanging your hat upon a distant future event from when Hebrews was penned which has nothing to do with the salvation or redemption of mankind.

Please meditate a little longer than 20 or so minutes before you generate your next rebuttal against what I post.

Goodbye

 

[Jay Ross]

Apparently Jay believes that when Jesus said...:

Matthew 26:28...For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

...He was either mistaken or lying.

Perhaps you should dig a little deeper into the meaning of the Greek Root Word G:2537. Jesus was referencing the freshness of the covenant/testament of His blood and not its age. Christ's statement in Matt 26:28 is still fresh for us to receive today.

Goodbye

 

[covenantee]

Perhaps you should dig a little deeper into the meaning of the Greek Root Word G:2537. Jesus was referencing the freshness of the covenant/testament of His blood and not its age. Christ's statement in Matt 26:28 is still fresh for us to receive today.

Goodbye

Hebrews 8
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

How fresh is that?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

And verse Jer 31:32 states this and Heb 8:13 that the initial covenant referenced was made at Mt Sinai, and that in our near future, God will renew this same covenant with the nation of Israel.

Nonsense. The new covenant was established by the blood of Christ long ago. Period. There's nothing in scripture about it being renewed.

The next question that needs to be made is when will God renew this covenant with the nation of Israel. I would suggest to you that that will happen in around 20 years' time.

If that is the case, you are hanging your hat upon a distant future event from when Hebrews was penned which has nothing to do with the salvation or redemption of mankind.

Please meditate a little longer than 20 or so minutes before you generate your next rebuttal against what I post.

Goodbye

I don't need to spend more than 20 seconds thinking about how to rebut your nonsense. You obviously have no understanding of the new covenant and what is written in Hebrews 8 to 10 whatsoever.

 

[Jay Ross]

Hebrews 8
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

How fresh is that?

All that you have proved is that you have no understanding. Quoting flawed scripture does not prove your point. When I said to look deeper into the meaning of G:2537, I was not asking for you to quote scripture, I was asking you to look deeper into the actual meaning of Greek Root word "Kainos" which seems to be a task to hard for you to do.

Oh well so be it.

 

[Jay Ross]

Nonsense. The new covenant was established by the blood of Christ long ago. Period. There's nothing in scripture about it being renewed.


I don't need to spend more than 20 seconds thinking about how to rebut your nonsense. You obviously have no understanding of the new covenant and what is written in Hebrews 8 to 10 whatsoever.

Oh, Spiritual Israelite, you have no discernment that in Hebrews, when it speaks of a Covenant made like new again that the writer was speaking of the Kingdom of Priests, A holy Nation and God's Possession among the nations Covenant that was initially made with the nation of Israel at Mt Sinai. You are acting like the big bad wolf, huffing and puffing, to blow the little houses down to get to the cowering people inside, to come to your understanding so that you can feed upon their fears.

Your reading of Jeremiah 31 and the Letter to the Hebrews is to make it say what you want it to say, like so many before you.

Sorry, I will not roll over dead, and relinquish what the Scriptures actually state and teaches, to blindly accept what you believe.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Oh, Spiritual Israelite, you have no discernment that in Hebrews, when it speaks of a Covenant made like new again

Why are you being so dishonest with the text? Do you imagine I should take you seriously when that is the case? I can't take you seriously at all. Nowhere in Hebrews does it describe the new covenant as being "made like new again". You are just making that up. Why are you willing to twist scripture like this to make it say what you want it to say? Do you just have no respect for God's word?

that the writer was speaking of the Kingdom of Priests, A holy Nation and God's Possession among the nations Covenant that was initially made with the nation of Israel at Mt Sinai. You are acting like the big bad wolf, huffing and puffing, to blow the little houses down to get to the cowering people inside, to come to your understanding so that you can feed upon their fears.

Your reading of Jeremiah 31 and the Letter to the Hebrews is to make it say what you want it to say, like so many before you.

Sorry, I will not roll over dead, and relinquish what the Scriptures actually state and teaches, to blindly accept what you believe.

Your foolish stubbornness impresses no one. You need to stop treating scripture so dishonestly.

 

[covenantee]

All that you have proved is that you have no understanding. Quoting flawed scripture does not prove your point. When I said to look deeper into the meaning of G:2537, I was not asking for you to quote scripture, I was asking you to look deeper into the actual meaning of Greek Root word "Kainos" which seems to be a task to hard for you to do.

Oh well so be it.

Describe the flaw in inspired inerrant Hebrews 8:13.

Who other than you believes that Hebrews 8:13 is flawed?

 

[Pavel Mosko]

Firstly, I am a Protestant Christian. My ancestors came to the Americas in the 1600's from France, having been under the persecutions against French Huguenots in France by the Catholic Church. And as much as I disagree with Radical Islam, I still am not deceived into thinking Islam represents the Revelation beast for the end times.

Per the signs of the end that Lord Jesus gave His Church in His Olivet discourse, the Revelation beast will operate from Jerusalem, not Europe, and not Mecca.

Below Lord Jesus was speaking of signs that happen at the end of this world just prior to His return...

Matt 24:15-16
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
KJV

Matt 24:21
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
KJV

That sign of the "abomination of desolation" idol to be setup per the Book of Daniel is to happen in JUDEA. That means JERUSALEM. It is one of the signs Jesus gave about the future "great tribulation", so it has not yet happened today, as the "great tribulation" is still in our near future.

Lord Jesus then in that same Matthew 24 Chapter gave the following sign about the coming of a false-Christ to Jerusalem, which is who He was pointing to that will cause the "abomination of desolation" idol to stand in that "holy place", in Jerusalem, meaning a new stone temple.

Matt 24:23-26
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, "Lo, here is Christ, or there"; believe it not.

Lord Jesus gave us the warning that if someone comes up to you in that time and says something like, "Lo, here is Christ, or there", then do not believe it. Why? Because that will be a FALSE-CHRIST.

24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

The above "false Christs" phrase Dr. James Strong in his Strong's Exhaustive Concordance translated the Greek word pseudochristos as 'a spurious Messiah', meaning a singular false-Christ, or false-Messiah.

And there is your first MAJOR CLUE that the coming Antichrist/false-Messiah is NOT going to come from Islam, but instead from among the Jews.

And the reason is simple. It is because in order for that pseudo-Christ to mimic Lord Jesus Christ, and that is what his game will be about, he must simulate his origins being from the tribe of Judah, and of the house of David. No one born of Ishmael (Arabs) following Islam can mimic that.

25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, "Behold, He is in the desert"; go not forth: "behold, He is in the secret chambers"; believe it not.
KJV

And just in case the reader didn't quite get His meaning, Lord Jesus repeated His warning about that coming pseudo-Christ, for us to not believe that false one who comes first will be Jesus.

Apostle Paul gave this same warning in 2 Thessalonians 2...

2 Thess 2:3-4
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
KJV

That is the same subject Lord Jesus was warning about, a coming false-Messiah to Jerusalem that will sit in a new stone temple built there for the end, and proclaim himself as GOD. Paul in that same Chapter repeats the sign Jesus gave about that future false one in Jerusalem working the great signs, wonders, and miracles to deceive the world with.

Then Lord Jesus gave the Church even more information about that coming false-Christ, in His Book of Revelation He sent through His servant John...

Rev 13:11-15
11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
KJV

That is about the false-Christ Jesus warned us about for the end. He is that "another beast", a 2nd beast representing the idea of the 'beast king'. In Revelation 13:1, the first beast is about a kingdom beast that comes up out of the sea of peoples. In Revelation 17:15 Lord Jesus defined that sea of waters to mean peoples, multitudes, nations, and tongues. That 1st beast is to have ten horns (ten kings), seven heads (earthly power zones), and ten crowns.

And per Revelation 17, in the last verse, we are told the Babylon Harlot symbolic "woman" is a "great city". And per Revelation 11:8 we are shown that "great city" is about JERUSALEM for the end.

What this means for Islam is that it will be subject to the one-world beast religion just like deceived Christian brethren will be also, and all other religions too. Or didn't you notice Apostle Paul said in 2 Thessalonians 2:4 that the coming false-Christ will exalt himself over ALL THAT IS WORSHIPED, OR THAT IS CALLED GOD?

What is going on today between Iran, Israel, and the Christian West are simply moves towards the coming "one world government" in prep for the coming false-Christ to reign from Jerusalem.

I am on the side that believes that the Revelation material has some kind of Islamic component. It does not have to be the whole picture, probably it is not, but I think it is at least half of the picture. Joel Richardson in his book "Middle East Beast" I think makes the best case for that. This is especially born out by the historical context of the Bible that focuses on Israel and the Mediterranean region.

 

[Douggg]

I am on the side that believes that the Revelation material has some kind of Islamic component. It does not have to be the whole picture, probably it is not, but I think it is at least half of the picture. Joel Richardson in his book "Middle East Beast" I think makes the best case for that. This is especially born out by the historical context of the Bible that focuses on Israel and the Mediterranean region.

Joel Richardson is a Jew. He does not want to admit that the Antichrist person will be a Jew.

Most of Revelation deals with the 7 years leading up to and including Jesus's return at the end of the 7 years.

The Muslim factor will be ended by the Gog/Magog event. In Ezekiel 39:9 there are 7 years that follow the Gog/Magog event. That 7 years is the same 7 years of Daniel 9:27 and the 7 years in Revelation.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

Joel Richardson is a Jew. He does not want to admit that the Antichrist person will be a Jew.

Most of Revelation deals with the 7 years leading up to and including Jesus's return at the end of the 7 years.

The Muslim factor will be ended by the Gog/Magog event. In Ezekiel 39:9 there are 7 years that follow the Gog/Magog event. That 7 years is the same 7 years of Daniel 9:27 and the 7 years in Revelation.



View attachment 83369

Yes I do believe as far as Israel is concerned their is indeed a false rabbi, bar Kockba type person. They have had a few already in ancient and modern times, one modern rabbi has some alleged miracles but they seem a bit below average for a substantial would be antichrist.

 

[Douggg]

Yes I do believe as far as Israel is concerned their is indeed a false rabbi, bar Kockba type person. They have had a few already in ancient and modern times, one modern rabbi has some alleged miracles but they seem a bit below average for a substantial would be antichrist.

The Antichrist will be a political person with some military knowledge. He will be a Jew.

To become the Antichrist, he will be anointed the King of Israel, thought-to-be messiah by the false prophet.

The Jews (Judaism) are expecting their long awaited King of Israel messiah. The Antichrist person will appear to them to be that person.

The Jews (Judaism) believe that their messiah will be anointed the King of Israel by "a known prophet". They are also looking for Elijah the prophet to come and be a part of the start up of the messianic age. The false prophet of Revelation will initially appear to the Jews (Judaism) as the embodiment of Elijah.

I have been participating at the Jewish Virtual Yeshiva (counter Christian) site, asking questions of what they believe since 2004. Most Christians don't have a in-depth understanding about what the Jews (Judaism) believe. I try to pass along information about what they believe and how they are going to be fooled into thinking that the Antichrist person is their long awaited King of Israel messiah.

 

[Jay Ross]

Describe the flaw in inspired inerrant Hebrews 8:13.

Who other than you believes that Hebrews 8:13 is flawed?

I am not saying that Hebrews is flawed, only that the way it has been translated and applied is.