Rapture Thoughts of Some Early Church Leaders

[Taken]

There is Satan's wrath and there is the wrath of the lamb........which is the wrath of God. The Lamb is God. Those are the facts.



The seven seals do not begin with wrath. This is a false conclusion you are making. The wrath of the Lamb/God does not begin until the 7th seal.

When the 1st seal is opened what happens? The beast of the earth, the rider on the white horse goes forth conquering and to conquer. Do you think this is the wrath of the Lamb? All this brings war, famine and pestilence. Gods wrath which is the wrath of the lamb is the 7th seal.
God removes the Church before the great tribulation and the 12 tribes across the earth before the wrath of God.

Only those of the nation of Israel that fled to a place of protection, the two witnesses and unbelievers will be on the earth when God pours out His wrath. We are not appointed to wrath.

Sorry. There are 7 seals. The 7 trumpets and 7 vials occur in the 7th seal. FACT.

Thanks for AGAIN, repeating “YOUR CARNAL MINDED Facts and Conclusions”

I have zero interest in continuing to repeatedly hearing again and again…
Your Carnal Minded, facts, conclusions or accusations.

Please refrain your temptation … toward me.
We highly disagree.
And we each seem quite content with our own chosen standing.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[The Light]

Thanks for AGAIN, repeating “YOUR CARNAL MINDED Facts and Conclusions”

I have zero interest in continuing to repeatedly hearing again and again…
Your Carnal Minded, facts, conclusions or accusations.

I see your point. Yes, I just believe what is written. I don't apply any spiritual hocus pocus discernment. What it says is what it says.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The unsaved are not judged at the second coming. That happens over a thousand years after.

Jesus clearly indicated otherwise in Matthew 25:31-46. He indicated there that both the saved and unsaved will be gathered at the same time when He comes with His angels and they will then be judged.

 

[rebuilder 454]

You are making that up. How are you unable to see that Jesus comes at the 6th seal for a harvest. ALL EYES SEE THE COMING OF THE LORD.

The great tribulation, when the beast is killing believers, mostly Jews, is OVER at the 6th seal. Jesus returns at the 6th seal. Jesus comes in power and glory at the 6th seal. What can't you see? This is simple.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

After Jesus comes at the 6th seal there is a great multitude in heaven. They are there for the marriage supper of the Lamb.

Question: If the 6th seal is looking forward to the second coming and is not the second coming, when does the great multitude get to heaven for the marriage supper? You never can answer any questions with scriptural proof, it's always just what you THINK.


I have a question a few questions. When is the rapture of the Jews? Before the wrath of God or after the wrath of God.
When does the great multitude get to heaven? Before the wrath of God or after the wrath of God.

Do you have any scriptural proof of what you believe or is it what you THINK.


Sorry, you are making things up.

The Word of God says that Jesus comes in power and glory at the 6th seal when the sun and moon are darkened and the stars fall from heaven. Wrath does not begin until the 7th seal is opened.

You still haven't figured out that when you are reading Revelation 13 and 14 you are back in the first six seals.

Yes, Jesus is sitting on a cloud in Rev 14 and all eyes see Him. And there is a harvest. He sends His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth. It is the JewS that are gathered from the earth BEFORE THE WRATH OF GOD. The Church is gathered from heaven. Unbelievers are cast into wrath as we see below.........the very same thing that happens when the 7th seal is opened. Wrath begins.

Revelation 14
19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

You really don't understand what you are reading. Your attempt to make the events of the sixth seal the same as the seventh seal is unbiblical.

When you are reading Matthew 24 do you see a harvest or do you see Jesus coming in vengeance? I see Jesus sending His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth. That's a harvest. That is not Armageddon. If you see Armageddon when Jesus is sending His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth, nothing I can do.

QUOTE
"Question: If the 6th seal is looking forward to the second coming and is not the second coming, when does the great multitude get to heaven for the marriage supper? You never can answer any questions with scriptural proof, it's always just what you THINK."
SMH
I am making you go against the bible.
Get real.
Your deal is Conjecture.
Get a bible and let's go.
Stop lying and misrepresenting in your desperation

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

<eye roll> This is not quite as bad as calling me a liar like you did a couple of posts ago, but still... <eye roll> <chuckles>

<eye roll> <chuckles> <chuckles> <eye roll>

Oh, it's always... challenging... <chuckles> ...to converse with you, SI. <smile>

Yeah, tell me about it. <eye roll> <chuckles>

No, I'm not denying it at all, I'm saying ~ over and over again ~ that you are attributing something to his comments here than is just not the case, outside of the context in which he is saying what he's saying.

No, I'm not. And you're doing nothing to prove otherwise.

Yes, I can and do wholeheartedly agree that, just as you say here, not all Christians have all of the gifts of the Spirit

If you really believe that, then you should being willing to acknowledge that not all Christians have the spiritual gift of faith.

You disagree, I get that; fine. But again, in the context of what I'm saying (yet again), both are true. Your context is ~ and I'm just talking about you, here ~ the Paul is meaning that specific Christians can do maybe one or two of these things but cannot do the rest... have absolutely no ability to do the rest. There is quite a difference between merely talking about the ability to do things and being gifted at those things; that's irrefutable. And one has to acknowledge that, because to deny that is really... well, we'll just call it stubbornness. <smile> Again, we can be knowledgeable, have wisdom, be able to teach and/or preach, and ~ particularly germane to our... "conversation" here... <chuckles> ~ have faith ~ ...and you and I both have a measure of all these things... but not be particularly and specifically gifted by the Holy Spirit in these things ~ which is Paul's context both in 1 Corinthians 12 and Romans 12 ~ and it is the Holy Spirit Who, as Paul says in 1 Corinthians 12:11, "empowers them all and apportions to each one individually as He wills." I mean the language there is so simple and clear that it's really impossible to misconstrue. But yet... <chuckles>

LOL! You contradict yourself constantly. You previously said that "not all Christians have all of the gifts of the Spirit", but here you are contradicting yourself by saying everyone has a measure of all of the gifts of the Spirit. Make up your mind. Do all Chrisitians have all of the gifts of the Spirit to one measure or another or do not all Christians have all of the gifts of the Spirit to any measure? Paul clearly indicated that Christians do not have all of the gifts of the Holy Spirit to any measure. Tell me to what degree or measure you can speak in tongues? I'm guessing not at all. Yet, you can't even bring yourself to acknowledge this.

You clearly have no understanding of the following passage whatsoever.

1 Corinthians 12:27 Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it. 28 And God has placed in the church first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, of helping, of guidance, and of different kinds of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? 30 Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues[d]? Do all interpret? 31 Now eagerly desire the greater gifts.

The answer to all of Paul's questions here is "No, but your answer is "Yes, all all prophets, all are teachers, all work miracles, at least to some measure". Why would Paul say to "desire the greater gifts" if we already have them, at least to some measure, as you believe?

<HAHAHAHA!!!!> I've never even talked about that, SI! Never.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! Yes, you did. Hello? I'm going to do it again. You don't like when I do this, but you are a liar. I've caught you in lies several times. Here's another one. You did talk about particular gifts of the Holy Spirit. That's why I'm questioning where such a thing is ever taught.

Although he is talking about particular gifts of the Spirit,

What in the world is going on here? LOL!!!!! You can't possibly be for real. Here you are talking about particular gifts of the Spirit again after saying you never talked about that. Good grief, man. Is being honest just too difficult for you?

knowledge and wisdom and faith and teaching and the like. My goodness.

My goodness. I'm asking you where Paul ever mentions "particular gifts of the Spirit". Hello?

What I've talked about is individual Christians being particularly gifted by the Spirit to do... and in each individual case one or maybe two of the... particular <chuckles> ...spiritual gifts he mentions.

You can't understand basic English. What I'm asking you is where Paul indicates that individual Christians have particular gifts and also non-particular gifts. You are saying that we all have a measure of all of the spiritual gifts, but are just not particularly gifted in all of the spiritual gifts, right? I'm asking you to show where that is ever indicated in scripture.

Again, we can have ~ in the case of faith, or wisdom, or knowledge ~ or merely have the ability to do ~ in the case of preaching, teaching, and healing, and even speaking in tongues ~ these things without being particularly gifted by the Spirit in or with them ~ in the case of faith, or wisdom, or knowledge ~ or merely have the ability to do them ~ in the case of preaching, teaching, and healing, and even speaking in tongues ~ and thus to help others in those areas by bearing their burdens with them and to help to build them up in the Lord, which is our duty and our joy to do (or at least should be), and why God has given us each other.

Where does scripture teach this? That's what I'm asking you. Show me the scripture which backs up what you're saying here. I'll assume that neither of us has the "particular" (LOL!) gift of speaking in tongues. Of course the Spirit could gives us the gift of speaking in tongues if He wanted to, but neither of us has it. Not to any measure currently. You trying to claim that we have it to some measure just because the Spirit could give it to us is ridiculous. We currently do not have that gift at all. Not all Christians have at least some measure of all of the spiritual gifts as you are trying to claim. Some have no gift for speaking in tongues or doing miracles or healing and so on. They could desire other gifts, as Paul indicated, but they currently do not possess them. The spiritual gift of faith is included among the gifts of the Holy Spirit and not every Christian has that spiritual gift. It's not saving faith, but is an extra measure of faith or something along those lines that may relate to the gifts listed right after it like healing and miracles and such. It's a kind of supernatural faith that one needs in order to do certain supernatural things.

As I've said, the funny thing is, even though I've said many times that I agree with you... we see eye to eye on this; we really do... you keep saying I say otherwise, or deny it. And on top of that, even though Paul does say "not of yourselves" here, and we agree on what that means, you keep saying ~ in the same breath, many times ~ that it is of ourselves in that we give ourselves faith, which is in that case to say, in effect, it is our works ~ our willing something is a work in and of itself ~ that save us.

You do not agree with me on what that means because I disagree with your contention that faith is a work. You think salvation being "not of yourselves" includes being not of faith because you think faith is a work. But, Paul contrasted faith with works. He only said that salvation is not by works. He didn't say it is not through our faith. He indicated that salvation IS through faith, but is NOT by works. And he indicated that good works FOLLOW salvation that comes by grace through faith.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I totally agree. Always have and always will. But... well, two things:

1. according to you, this salvific faith we manufacture for ourselves, give ourselves ~ which, again, turns the very definition of faith given to us in Hebrews 11:1 on its ear. More on that in a moment, but...
2. because we ~ again, according to you ~ give ourselves faith, that makes it into a work, something we do, which I know you don't mean to do, but you do in fact do that, again, even while saying "it's not of works," which is just astounding.

This means you do NOT agree. Why would you say you "totally agree" and then immediately proceed to show how we do not agree? I seriously don't know what in the world you are thinking when you're creating your posts. You constantly contradict yourself.

To the second point, something we do is a work of our own, pure and simple

Maybe in the sense that it's something that we do, but so what? Show me the scripture which says that salvation is not by faith. Good luck with that! But, there are plenty of scriptures, including Ephesians 2:8-9 which say that salvation is not by good works and not by works of the law. In Acts 16:30-31 the jailer asks Paul and Silas what he must do to be saved. Their answer is that he needed to "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ" in order to be saved. If someone asked you that, you would need to tell them that there is nothing they can do to be saved because salvation is not by works. Paul and Silas clearly did not have the same understanding of salvation that you do.

In John 6:27 Jesus says to labor for everlasting life. How do you reconcile that verse with your doctrine? After saying that He was then asked by the people He was talking what they had to do that God requires of them in order to obtain everlasting life. And Jesus told them what they had to do was to "believe in Him who He sent". So, yes, faith is somehting that we are required to do, but when scripture says that salvation is not by works, it's not saying there's nothing at all we need to do, but that there's no works that we need to do. Why can you not understand the difference between faith and works? Have you never read James 2 where James contrasts faith with works repeatedly? He indicated that his works reflected his faith, but he differentiated between faith and works. So, why don't you?

. Yet again, the faith that we have is a work of God... given to us by God, to the first point above "(His) assurance (given to us) of things hoped for, and (the Spirit's) conviction of our hearts of things unseen."

LOL! Look at you adding to scripture to make it say what you want it to say. Terrible. Have you no shame? Nowhere does scripture say that saving faith is given to us by God.

I will once again mention the faith of the centurion who trusted in Christ so much that he believed that Christ could heal his servant without even having to go to him in person. Jesus marveled at the amount of faith the centurion had. If faith is given to us by God, then why in the world would Jesus have marveled at the centurion's faith? Was He marveling at Himself for how much faith He gave him? Of course not. He marveled because He had not seen anyone before in Israel or anywhere else He had been with that much faith.

And yet again, this is not just me saying it, it's word for word what the Spirit says in Hebrews 11:1. And all this is in keeping with what John says in John 1:13, that we have been "born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God,"

You have no understanding of what that verse means. The previous verse talks about people receiving/accepting Jesus in order to become a children of God, so, clearly, we are required to willingly choose to accept Christ. But, when we're born again that is an act of the Holy Spirit, not of the flesh or the will of man. It's what the Holy Spirit does AFTER we have accepted Christ and put our faith in Him in order to make us into born again children of God.

and what Paul reiterates in Romans 9:14-18, that "(God) says to Moses, 'I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.' So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, 'For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show My power in you, and that My name might be proclaimed in all the earth.' So then He has mercy on whomever He wills, and He hardens whomever He wills." Here again, the language there is so simple and clear that it's really impossible to misconstrue. These things are absolutely clear and cannot be misconstrued, But yet... <chuckles> ...they can be, ah, "massaged" into something other than they are, and... unfortunately, many do just that...

LOL! You have proven that you can misconstrue any verse in scripture because you are blinded by Calvinist doctrine. You never look at the big picture. You cherry pick scriptures that you take out of context without realizing how you are contradicting other scriptures. Yes, God alone determines who to have mercy on or not. No kidding! Hello? But, does that mean He randomly has mercy on some and not on others for no discernible reason? No! He wants to have mercy on all people (Romans 11:30-32). That's what you fail to take into consideration. God wanted to have mercy on Pharaoh before Pharoah chose to be an evil person who severely mistreated the Israelites. As is the case for all people, Pharaoh knew God by what God had made because God makes Himself known to all people by what He has made (Romans 1:18-20). But, Pharaoh repeatedly suppressed the truth in unrighteousness and would not glorify God and was not thankful to Him. And he had no excuse for that (Romans 1:21)! Can you acknowledge that?

So, when someone refuses to submit themselves to God over and over again the way Pharaoah did, then, of course, God can choose to make an example out of that person for a purpose if He wants to. And that's what He did with Pharaoh "that I might show My power in you, and that My name might be proclaimed in all the earth.". It isn't as if God never wanted to have mercy on Pharaoh, but the time came when He had enough of Pharaoh's rebellion. As Paul describes in Romans 1:18-32, people can get to the point where they BECOME fools who have no excuse for becoming fools who God doesn't want to contend with any longer and He gives them over to their wickedness. It isn't that God didn't want to have mercy on these people. They have no excuse for what they've done. But, He only has mercy on people who do submit to Him when He calls them to repent and He hardens those who repeatedly refuse to do so, like Pharaoh.

Your doctrine gives people an excuse for suppressing the truth in unrighteousness and for not glorifying God and being thankful to Him even though scripture gives people no excuse for that (Romans 1:18-21). You say that people cannot manufacture faith in and of themselves and that God gives people faith. So, in your view, the reason that some don't have faith is because they are not able to produce faith in their own volition and God has not given them faith. So, tell me how exactly those who do not have faith in God and (supposedly) have no ability to have faith have no excuse for suppressing the truth in unrighteousness and for not glorifying God and being thankful to Him?

 

[Taken]

I see your point. Yes, I just believe what is written.

I don't apply any spiritual hocus pocus discernment.

And what you call that “Spiritual hocus Pocus”… you reject…
IS:
“Spiritual Understanding”
IS:
What the Apostles prayed men would seek and obtain…
IS:
Only obtained by a man, From the Lord God Himself.

Agree, that is Not your Interest.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Not so.

Noah, his family and all the animals entered on the 1st Day of the 7.

For you to be correct Noah would have to enter the ark before the 7 days begin which did not happen.

The belief by many is that the Church will be in heaven before the final 7 years begins. This is not true.

Ok
Now is see your struggle.
You erroneously have the church raptured "mid 7 yr trib" Daniel spoke of.
Therefore you resist ANYTHING WITH A "7" IN IT.
It all "lines up" in your mind

 

[rebuilder 454]

It could be.
In fact you are most likely correct.
I just do not need that dynamic to defend my position.

Also ....some are trying to make a point that all were loaded the same day.
Virtually impossible.
The 7 day thingy fits

From Google
"Total Numbers: While 1,398–1,400 kinds are often cited, including seven pairs of some "clean" animals, the total number of individuals is estimated to be under 7,000."
Probably took 7 days.

 

[Taken]

Where does scripture teach this?

@PinSeeker

Man HAS a spirit.
God IS a Spirit.
God HAS 7 Spirits.

God Blesses, particular men with “His” particular Spirits.

Never Does God give to ONE human created man… All of Gods Spirits….( which would then MAKE that man …Equal with God )

Each Spirit God, blesses a man with, is a preparation, for that man to accomplish Gods WILL.

Rev 3:
[1] And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.

Rev.4
[5] And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.

Rev.5
[6] And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

Seven Spirits of God:

Isa 11:
[2]
1)And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him,
2)the spirit of wisdom
3)and understanding,
4)the spirit of counsel
5)and might,
6) the spirit of knowledge
7) and of the fear of the LORD;

Seven Spirits of God: Effect / Advance;
For men: who receive one or more..(never ALL)
Judgement
Grace
Supplications
Discipline
Truth
Holiness
Life
Adoption
Slumber
Meekness
Faith
Promise
Revelation
Glory
Prophecy

1 Cor 12:
[4] Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
[5] And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
[6] And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
[7] But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

Glory to God
Taken

 

[PinSeeker]

you should being willing to acknowledge that not all Christians have the spiritual gift of faith.

And I am, and I do. But even in your statement here, which is true, nothing is being said here about whether Christians have faith or not; they do. I'm not sure why you insist, even generally speaking, not being particularly gifted in something necessarily means then that you can't do or don't have that thing. Just to give you a very simple analogy (again), I'm not a gifted enough golfer to play on the PGA Tour, but I can play golf. Likewise, I may not be particularly gifted a particular spiritual gift, but that does not mean that I can't do it or don't have it at least to some small degree.

I'm asking you where Paul ever mentions "particular gifts of the Spirit". Hello?

And I am saying (yet again) again that I never did. What is in view in 1 Corinthians 12 regarding any one of the spiritual gifts is that individual Christians being particularly gifted ~ meaning gifted far beyond other Christians regarding any one of them. Yet again, Paul is talking about individual Christians being particularly gifted in any one (or more, possibly) of the spiritual gifts, and this is by the design, the will, of God.

You are saying that we all have a measure of all of the spiritual gifts, but are just not particularly gifted in all of the spiritual gifts, right? I'm asking you to show where that is ever indicated in scripture.

There is no Scripture that indicates otherwise. And the silence is deafening.

You do not agree with me on what that means because I disagree with your contention that faith is a work.

That's... absolutely not my contention, and never has been. My contention, Spiritual Israelite ~ and I've said this many times ~ is that you at least inadvertently make our faith out to be a work, and you do so by saying things like, "It's what the Holy Spirit does AFTER we have accepted Christ and put our faith in Him in order to make us into born again..." By saying this, again, you may not mean to, but you make it out to be something we do... a work... that somehow merits salvation. And we know that salvation is by grace, so it cannot be because of works of any kind.

You think salvation being "not of yourselves" includes being not of faith because you think faith is a work.

No, that's not what I think, which I've said over and over again (see above), which causes me to think you're purposely making things I've said into the opposite of what I actually did say. See directly above.

But, Paul contrasted faith with works. He only said that salvation is not by works. He didn't say it is not through our faith. He indicated that salvation IS through faith, but is NOT by works. And he indicated that good works FOLLOW salvation that comes by grace through faith.

Absolutely. Which I've said to you and others many, many times. Absolutely. But yet you still say, "It's what the Holy Spirit does AFTER we have accepted Christ and put our faith in Him in order to make us into born again," which is a contradiction of what you say here, which is just astounding.

But, when we're born again that is an act of the Holy Spirit, not of the flesh or the will of man. It's what the Holy Spirit does AFTER we have accepted Christ and put our faith in Him in order to make us into born again children of God.

So... here it is: our being born again of the Spirit "is an act of the Holy Spirit"... previous to which we were dead in our sin,... That's good so far... <smile> Yeah, in which case we would never put our faith in Him. But continuing on you say, "He makes us born again after we have accepted Christ and put our faith in Him in order to make us into born again... children... of God..." I, uh, you know, I'm sorry, I truly am, but I can't help but laugh... I mean, that's like saying in baseball that a batter can't hit a home run until the pitcher actually pitches the ball (which is correct, of course), but the batter hits the homer and then the pitcher actually pitches the ball after the batter has already hit it (which is impossible)... Yes, I know how ludicrous that sounds, but that's what you're doing. Oh... he "free-willed" it out of the park, and then the pitcher actually pitched the ball...

No, Jesus is the Author and Finisher... Founder and Perfector... of our faith (Hebrews 12:2). He is responsible for it beginning and coming to full fruition. You know, to understand how faith works in us, and God's working faith in us, Romans 4 is fantastic. You should clearly see there that faith is not the prerequisite of our salvation (it cannot be, because we don't have it unless God gives it to us ~ again, His assurance and conviction by the Spirit, the very definition of faith; we cannot have it before He gives it (see my baseball analogy again <smile>) but rather the vehicle through which we are saved. I mean, read what God says about Abraham in Romans 4, particularly that Abraham's faith did not make him righteous, but that through faith ~ God's assurance ~ God credited him with righteousness. It was an action of God, His work. And not only that, but also that Abraham "grew strong in his faith as he gave glory to God, fully convinced that God was able to do what he had promised." He did not give himself faith, nor did he make it stronger. We are all like Abraham. Only God brings things into existence from nothingness. This is how God works in us.

So, tell me how exactly those who do not have faith in God and (supposedly) have no ability to have faith have no excuse for suppressing the truth in unrighteousness and for not glorifying God and being thankful to Him?

Well, first, you really answered your own question by saying they suppressed the truth (as Paul did in Romans 1), which is an act of the (very free) will... <smile> And second, Paul says that "what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them... His invisible attributes, namely, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made." And yet they still suppress the truth... exchange the truth for a lie and worship creation rather than the Creator," just as Paul says. And this is why... thus Paul's "so" or "therefore" ... they have no excuse.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[The Light]

From Google
"Total Numbers: While 1,398–1,400 kinds are often cited, including seven pairs of some "clean" animals, the total number of individuals is estimated to be under 7,000."
Probably took 7 days.

That's strange.

The Word of God says Noah, his family and ALL of the animals loaded onto the ark in the SELFSAME day.

On this one, as usual, I'm going to go with the Word of God. You can go with what you THINK is possible.

Genesis 7
13 In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark;

14 They, and every beast after his kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind, and every fowl after his kind, every bird of every sort.

I'm glad you were not marching around the walls of Jericho. You would not see the possibility of the wall falling down.

 

[PinSeeker]

@PinSeeker

Man HAS a spirit.
God IS a Spirit.
God HAS 7 Spirits.

God Blesses, particular men with “His” particular Spirits.

Never Does God give to ONE human created man… All of Gods Spirits….( which would then MAKE that man …Equal with God )

Each Spirit God, blesses a man with, is a preparation, for that man to accomplish Gods WILL.

Rev 3:
[1] And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.

Rev.4
[5] And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.

Rev.5
[6] And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

Seven Spirits of God:

Isa 11:
[2]
1)And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him,
2)the spirit of wisdom
3)and understanding,
4)the spirit of counsel
5)and might,
6) the spirit of knowledge
7) and of the fear of the LORD;

Seven Spirits of God: Effect / Advance;
For men: who receive one or more..(never ALL)
Judgement
Grace
Supplications
Discipline
Truth
Holiness
Life
Adoption
Slumber
Meekness
Faith
Promise
Revelation
Glory
Prophecy

1 Cor 12:
[4] Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
[5] And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
[6] And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
[7] But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

Glory to God
Taken

There is only one Holy Spirit. Just as there is one Father and one Son. <smile> And they are all one in each other. And none of us Christians have literally seven spirits. You would do well, Taken, to think of the number seven throughout the Bible, and especially in Revelation, in terms of completeness. One day, Taken, we will all be complete in Christ.

I'm not really sure what you're saying with regard to 1 Corinthians 12... <smile>

Grace and peace to you.

 

[ewq1938]

Sorry. There are 7 seals. The 7 trumpets and 7 vials occur in the 7th seal. FACT.

No, they are not part of the 7th seal. They come after the seals were presented. The trumpets are separate from the 7th seal.

 

[The Light]

And what you call that “Spiritual hocus Pocus”… you reject…
IS:
“Spiritual Understanding”
IS:
What the Apostles prayed men would seek and obtain…
IS:
Only obtained by a man, From the Lord God Himself.

Agree, that is Not your Interest.

I believe what is written. How can I go wrong. So many of you believe what you THINK instead of what is written.. Some call this spiritual discernment. Most have never even seen one miracle. I'll go with what is written every time. You can go with what your THINK and call spiritual discernment.

 

[The Light]

No, they are not part of the 7th seal. They come after the seals were presented. The trumpets are separate from the 7th seal.

Well, that's not what the Word of God says. You can go with what you THINK.

 

[ewq1938]

Well, that's not what the Word of God says. You can go with what you THINK.

It certainly does not place the trumps and vials inside the last seal.

 

[Taken]

I believe what is written. How can I go wrong. So many of you believe what you THINK instead of what is written.. Some call this spiritual discernment. Most have never even seen one miracle. I'll go with what is written every time. You can go with what your THINK and call spiritual discernment.

What is written is Knowledge…
Not understanding.

You are not unique to “go by” / Trust the knowledge that is “written”…. So also do they with Spiritual Understanding / Discernment.

Spiritual Understanding… IS a Gift from God, regarding WHAT HIS words of Knowledge MEANS according TO God.

Spiritual Discernment…IS a Gift from God, regarding …
WHAT / WHICH “works of God”, APPLY to “THAT individual man”… AND “WHY”.

The “cherry-picking”…The “Specifics”…
Some men think is a clever weapon to attempt to use as a negative implication Against those converted IN Christ.

YOU…negatively attack “the IDEA of Spiritual Understanding and Spiritual Discernment”… as what you called “hocus pocus”.
YOUR…FREEWILL to do so…

My FREEWILL… to disagree with You, as I do disagree with you.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

There is only one Holy Spirit. Just as there is one Father and one Son. <smile> And they are all one in each other.

Yes. Never said otherwise.

And none of us Christians have literally seven spirits.

Yes, Already addressed that…men are gifted particular, not All.

You would do well, Taken, to think of the number seven throughout the Bible, and especially in Revelation, in terms of completeness.

And WHAT specifically indicated to you, that I never considered or thought of the Number Seven having a spiritual Significance?

One day, Taken, we will all be complete in Christ.

Some (including myself) have Already become Complete “IN” Christ.
My “one day of completion will be accomplished, when my own Body is Risen Glorified”.

I'm not really sure what you're saying with regard to 1 Corinthians 12... <smile>

Verification …
God IS One Spirit.
God HAS Seven Spirits.
God Gives to Men, Certain, (not all) of His Seven Spirits…

Grace and peace to you.

Thank you.
You as well.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[rebuilder 454]

You are making that up. How are you unable to see that Jesus comes at the 6th seal for a harvest. ALL EYES SEE THE COMING OF THE LORD.

The great tribulation, when the beast is killing believers, mostly Jews, is OVER at the 6th seal. Jesus returns at the 6th seal. Jesus comes in power and glory at the 6th seal. What can't you see? This is simple.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

After Jesus comes at the 6th seal there is a great multitude in heaven. They are there for the marriage supper of the Lamb.

Question: If the 6th seal is looking forward to the second coming and is not the second coming, when does the great multitude get to heaven for the marriage supper? You never can answer any questions with scriptural proof, it's always just what you THINK.


I have a question a few questions. When is the rapture of the Jews? Before the wrath of God or after the wrath of God.
When does the great multitude get to heaven? Before the wrath of God or after the wrath of God.

Do you have any scriptural proof of what you believe or is it what you THINK.


Sorry, you are making things up.

The Word of God says that Jesus comes in power and glory at the 6th seal when the sun and moon are darkened and the stars fall from heaven. Wrath does not begin until the 7th seal is opened.

You still haven't figured out that when you are reading Revelation 13 and 14 you are back in the first six seals.

Yes, Jesus is sitting on a cloud in Rev 14 and all eyes see Him. And there is a harvest. He sends His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth. It is the JewS that are gathered from the earth BEFORE THE WRATH OF GOD. The Church is gathered from heaven. Unbelievers are cast into wrath as we see below.........the very same thing that happens when the 7th seal is opened. Wrath begins.

Revelation 14
19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

You really don't understand what you are reading. Your attempt to make the events of the sixth seal the same as the seventh seal is unbiblical.

When you are reading Matthew 24 do you see a harvest or do you see Jesus coming in vengeance? I see Jesus sending His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth. That's a harvest. That is not Armageddon. If you see Armageddon when Jesus is sending His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth, nothing I can do.

QUOTE
"I have a question a few questions. When is the rapture of the Jews? Before the wrath of God or after the wrath of God.
When does the great multitude get to heaven? Before the wrath of God or after the wrath of God.
Do you have any scriptural proof of what you believe or is it what you THINK."


It doesn't matter what i think, even though you think your misrepresentations are valid.

I have pressed you over and over about your supposed 3 comings in power and great glory that you are most likely embarrassed about, and I am sure it is that embarrassment that has you accusing me of a lack of knowledge.
I am not the one with the misfit claims about the AC is just one of the AC's that you named "horus" out of thin air

You also try to make some case about the AC wearing a Stephanos crown.
( thinking you diminished successfully who he is.)
Then claim the bow in his hand is not a covenant.
It is akinn to " don't look behind tge curtain, watch my clever labeling"

That's strange.

The Word of God says Noah, his family and ALL of the animals loaded onto the ark in the SELFSAME day.

On this one, as usual, I'm going to go with the Word of God. You can go with what you THINK is possible.

Genesis 7
13 In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark;

14 They, and every beast after his kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind, and every fowl after his kind, every bird of every sort.

I'm glad you were not marching around the walls of Jericho. You would not see the possibility of the wall falling down.

I am glad I am not in your misrepresentation.
I DONT CARE about your "Noah knowledge".. rolleyes..
It is a nothing burger.
You are so busy looking for any flyspeck of trivia, you are blinded to the panoramic picture.
If it took a week, 2 days, or one day, it is nothing to debate.
BTW, IT WAS YOU that was making the "7 day Noah in the ark, preflood, nothingburger trivia stand", in the past, here on the forum, and someone challenged you so you changed it.
So your "Jerico" petty baloney is you looking in the mirror.

You should be a postribber, since you got the going personal juvenile mess down to a tee.
You also have the doctrine built off of one word thingy down pat also.
Then you top it off, with a method of, "context only matters when you say so".

QUOTE
"On this one, as usual, I'm going to go with the Word of God. You can go with what you THINK is possible."

What a joke.
You can not honestly debate me.
You really ought to join the postribber society.
Your methods fit so perfectly.