Reason for The Crusades explained

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Matthias

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“Although some Christians served as Roman soldiers during the Church’s early history, a very significant shift in Christian thinking about war occurred in the fourth century when Emperor Constantine began to use the Roman state to support the Church. According to an influential bishop named Eusebius, Christian pacifism was from then on to be strictly for clergy, monks, and nuns; lay Christians would now be obligated to defend the empire with force. (Bainton; Swift) …

Beginning around the ninth century, though, another evolution of Christian thinking occurred. Killing unbelievers was actually declared by popes Leo IV and John VIII to be spiritually beneficial for Christian soldiers: Their sins could be erased if they killed in defense if the Church. In the year 1095, Pope Urban II launched the First Crusade, urging European leaders to rescue the Christian holy lands from their non-Christian occupiers. He referred to the Muslims who then controlled Palestine as an ‘unclean nation’ that had polluted Christian holy places. Killing Muslims became itself a form of penance for Christians for remission of their sins. Moral rules governing the conduct of war were abandoned, and unlimited tactics were permitted. No one was immune from attack by Christian crusaders; whole cities were slaughtered. (Halsall)”

(David L. Perry, “Killing in the Name of God: The Problem of Holy War”)


@Wrangler @Armour of God @NayborBear

That’s a long way from the teaching and practice of Jesus and the apostles.
 
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Matthias

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YOU?.....Are QUITE correct there

Organization of Islamic Cooperation (OIC) member states:

Middle East

• Afghanistan
• Bahrain
• Iran
• Iraq
• Jordan
• Kuwait
• Lebanon
• Oman
• Palestine
• Qatar
• Saudi Arabia
• Syria
• Turkey
• United Arab Emirates
• Yemen

Africa

• Algeria
• Benin
• Burkina Faso
•Cameroon
• Chad
• Comoros
• Ivory Coast
• Djibouti
• Egypt
•Gabon
• Gambia
• Guinea
• Guinea-Bissau
• Libya
• Mali
• Mauritania
• Morocco
• Mozambique
• Niger
• Nigeria
• Senegal
• Sierra Leone
• Somalia
• Sudan
• Togo
• Tunisia
• Uganda

Asia & Central Asia

• Albania
• Azerbaijan
• Bangladesh
• Brunei Darussalam
• Indonesia
• Kazakhstan
• Kyrgystan
• Malaysia
• Maldives
• Pakistan
• Tajikistan
• Turkmenistan
• Uzbekistan

Americas

• Guyana
• Suriname

“Therefore go and make disciples of all nations …” - Jesus

1779192028814.jpeg

That’s not how it’s done.

@Wrangler @Armour of God
 

Lambano

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And?.......I kinda wondering about our pacifistic members.....but EVERY church I've attended recently?
Have had "Security Teams" WITH GUNS!!!
GEE!!!
Since the neighborhood we're in has gotten kind of rough, the conference paid a church security expert to evaluate our security needs. The final report said that rather than training an armed security team, we'd get more bang for the buck by purchasing a couple of defibrillators and training a small team of laymen with some basic first-aid medical skills.

So far after 30+ years in this church, the scorecard reads, heart attacks 2, armed killers 0.
 

Wrangler

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Using Jesus as an example to support violence towards Muslims is an atrocious misuse of Scripture.
Nope. He will spite his enemies upon his return and ultimately kill more people than anyone on Judgement Day by throwing them in the Lake of Fire. Is this not true?
 

Lambano

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Nope. He will spite his enemies upon his return and ultimately kill more people than anyone on Judgement Day by throwing them in the Lake of Fire. Is this not true?
That's Jesus's business, not ours. Let Him handle it. We have our "marching orders".

maxresdefault.jpg
 

Wrangler

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That's Jesus's business, not ours. Let Him handle it. We have our "marching orders".
Not an answer to my question. And it’s not an answer to the thread topic.

The Crusades are our business and we conducted this business with the marching orders of following Jesus while will solve the problem of evil by killing more than anyone on Judgment Day.
 

Matthias

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@Wrangler you’ve joined with two others in accusing me of being a Muslim apologist / sympathizer. I’m your enemy.

1779197397866.jpeg

You’ve supported this. How badly do you want to kill me? What is keeping you from doing it?

@Armour of God @NayborBear
 

NayborBear

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Certainly I am.

Why aren’t you out there stopping the Muslims with your sword?

@Wrangler @Armour of God also aren’t out there stopping the Muslims with their swords.
Hebrews 6: 1
Therefore MOVING BEYOND the PRINCIPLES of the doctrine of Christ, LET US GO ON TO "SPIRITUAL MATURITY," not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, AND of faith TOWARD God,

I DO!
Tis SAD that you CAN'T HANDLE it though! :Ohz
 
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Matthias

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Hebrews 6: 1
Therefore MOVING BEYOND the PRINCIPLES of the doctrine of Christ, LET US GO ON TO "SPIRITUAL MATURITY," not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, AND of faith TOWARD God,

I DO!
Tis SAD that you CAN'T HANDLE it though! :Ohz

Have you killed even one Muslim with your sword?
 

NayborBear

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Organization of Islamic Cooperation (OIC) member states:

Middle East

• Afghanistan
• Bahrain
• Iran
• Iraq
• Jordan
• Kuwait
• Lebanon
• Oman
• Palestine
• Qatar
• Saudi Arabia
• Syria
• Turkey
• United Arab Emirates
• Yemen

Africa

• Algeria
• Benin
• Burkina Faso
•Cameroon
• Chad
• Comoros
• Ivory Coast
• Djibouti
• Egypt
•Gabon
• Gambia
• Guinea
• Guinea-Bissau
• Libya
• Mali
• Mauritania
• Morocco
• Mozambique
• Niger
• Nigeria
• Senegal
• Sierra Leone
• Somalia
• Sudan
• Togo
• Tunisia
• Uganda

Asia & Central Asia

• Albania
• Azerbaijan
• Bangladesh
• Brunei Darussalam
• Indonesia
• Kazakhstan
• Kyrgystan
• Malaysia
• Maldives
• Pakistan
• Tajikistan
• Turkmenistan
• Uzbekistan

Americas

• Guyana
• Suriname

“Therefore go and make disciples of all nations …” - Jesus

View attachment 84283

That’s not how it’s done.

@Wrangler @Armour of God
It CERTAINLY IS! While waiting for SHEEPLES to CATCH UP!
Hebrews 6: 1
Therefore moving beyond the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto Spiritual maturity; NOT LAYING AGAIN the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
 

Matthias

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It CERTAINLY IS! While waiting for SHEEPLES to CATCH UP!
Hebrews 6: 1
Therefore moving beyond the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto Spiritual maturity; NOT LAYING AGAIN the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

It isn’t the way the apostles and the followers of Jesus do it.

“We [followers of Jesus] do not use the weapons of the world.” - Paul

You aren’t making disciples. You’re encouraging followers of Jesus to kill potential disciples.
 
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NayborBear

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How many Muslims have you killed with your sword?

Since you’re convinced that Jesus wants you - commands you - to kill your enemies, why aren’t you doing it?
1 Peter 2:5
Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to OFFER UP "SPIRITUAL SACRIFICES ACCEPTABLE TO GOD "BY" Jesus Christ.
Luke 9:50

And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: FOR HE THAT IS NOT AGAINST US IS FOR US

And your VERSE for today?: (should you CHOOSE to accept it? And NOT to FEAR as HE will NEVER LEAVE YOU, NOR FORSAKE YOU!.....Is easy?....NO!.....But NOT "Mission Impossible" either!)

Hebrews 6:
Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection(COMPLETENESS); not LAYING AGAIN the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith TOWARD God,
 

NayborBear

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It isn’t the way the apostles and the followers of Jesus do it.

“We [followers of Jesus] do not use the weapons of the world.” - Paul

You aren’t making disciples. You’re encouraging followers of Jesus to kill potential disciples.
(SIGHS!!!)
Ezekiel 13:
6 They have seen vanity and lying divination, saying, The Lord saith: and the Lord hath not sent them: and they have made others to hope that they would confirm the word.
10 Because, even because they have seduced my people, saying, Peace; and there was no peace; AND ONE BUILT UP A WALL, and, lo, others daubed it with untempered morter:
 
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Justified

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Yes. Jesus is God and you are not and never will be. He was perfectly sinless and so is perfectly just when he judges; you are neither of those.

He will spite his enemies upon his return and ultimately kill more people than anyone on Judgement Day by throwing them in the Lake of Fire. Is this not true?
No, people likely won’t die in the lake of fire. Even if he did kill them all, Jesus alone, as his prerogative as God, is the judge who will judge the living and the dead, on Judgement Day.

Nowhere in Scripture, nowhere, are believers commanded to kill their enemies, for any reason, which is why we don’t have a single example of a believer in the NT doing so. More than that, as we have discussed in the past, there are many commands believers are given for how we are to treat others, such as loving one’s enemies and leaving vengeance to God, but you completely ignored all the passages then so I see no point in posting them now.

You are a false teacher who abuses Scripture to suit your false beliefs. And in this case, it is a gross, atrocious misuse of Scripture to use Jesus as an example to support killing Muslims. Absolutely wicked.
 
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Matthias

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1 Peter 2:5
Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to OFFER UP "SPIRITUAL SACRIFICES ACCEPTABLE TO GOD "BY" Jesus Christ.
Luke 9:50

And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: FOR HE THAT IS NOT AGAINST US IS FOR US

And your VERSE for today?: (should you CHOOSE to accept it? And NOT to FEAR as HE will NEVER LEAVE YOU, NOR FORSAKE YOU!.....Is easy?....NO!.....But NOT "Mission Impossible" either!)

Hebrews 6:
Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection(COMPLETENESS); not LAYING AGAIN the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith TOWARD God,

Zero. You don’t practice what you teach.
 
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Matthias

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(SIGHS!!!)
Ezekiel 13:
6 They have seen vanity and lying divination, saying, The Lord saith: and the Lord hath not sent them: and they have made others to hope that they would confirm the word.
10 Because, even because they have seduced my people, saying, Peace; and there was no peace; AND ONE BUILT UP A WALL, and, lo, others daubed it with untempered morter:

Jesus and the apostles didn’t use the weapons of the world.
 
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NayborBear

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Nowhere in Scripture, nowhere, are believers commanded to kill their enemies, for any reason
Exodus 3:
19 And I am sure that the king of Egypt will not let you go, no, not by a mighty hand.
20 And I will stretch out my hand, and smite Egypt with all my wonders which I will do in the midst thereof: and after that he will let you go.
1 Samuel 15:
2 Thus saith the Lord of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt.
3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.

SHHH!
Your Biblical ILLITERACY is showing! (as is also your temper!)

Were NOT the Tribes of Israel "believers" ALSO?
Well?.......Until the adversary caused them to UNDERMINE "Yah'-uh-"Vay's" SOVERIGNITY!
Hence the reason they were "Cut OFF!"
How sad a state it is when "High Minded" "Self Righteousness" UNDERMINES again The Father's SOVERIGNITY.....AND?????.......
WHEN "believers" FAIL to "learn" from HIStory?
HIStory REPEATS!
In the N.T. however it is rendered something like THIS!:

2 Thessalonians 2:10-13
And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. ...
 
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NayborBear

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Try reading Scripture. And I can all but guarantee that you’ve taken Sproul out of context.
If you're referring to my "signature line?"
I DID "add" to it, my "commentary, or assessment", I guess you could call it, to how "corrupted, oppressive, bullying, and MANIPULATIVE" WHAT AND HOW "TODAY'S CHRISTIANITY".........HAS BECOME!
But "out of context?"
I DON'T believe so!