Reason for The Crusades explained

[Triumph1300]

WITH the "Spiritual Maturity" of the "INVESTIGATIVE NATURE"

Interesting words by a war mongering member on this forum.
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Sometimes I wonder how much time you folks spend in the New Testament.
Maybe time for you war mongering crowd to stay away from the large group of false TV and Podcast teachers.
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Time for you to attend a church where they teach the truth about Christ.

 

[Wrangler]

You’re taking Scripture out of context by failing to understand what applies to believers and what doesn’t, what was meant for a specific time and place and what isn’t. There is not a single command in Scripture for followers of Christ to kill a single enemy.

Appeal to Strawman. 1st, you deny Scripture, then you over qualify it shown by adding ‘on a Tuesday’. There is not a single command in Scripture for followers of Christ to kill a single enemy on a Tuesday.

Getting back to your original claim, there are in fact Scripture verses where God commands us to kill. Start by acknowledging that.

Then you can invoke your other Strawman of ‘context’ and my many personal failings (to understand what applies and doesn’t apply).

 

[NayborBear]

Interesting words by a war mongering member on this forum.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Sometimes I wonder how much time you folks spend in the New Testament.
Maybe time for you war mongering crowd to stay away from the large group of false TV and Podcast teachers.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Time for you to attend a church where they teach the truth about Christ.

Well?........Kinda goes like this!:
Hebrews 6:1
Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ*, let us go on unto perfection(completeness)**; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

* 1 Peter 2:5
Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

**I have....They either "Haven't, Can't, or Won't!

And? It's NOT that we ain't in the SAME book? Cuz we ARE! It's that I'm more than several chapters ahead!
Mark 13:20

And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.

So? I can't complain about your "station" too much? Because you're going along right according to prophecy!
My line of "evangelizing" is more along the lines of "this":
Ezekiel 13:
10 Because, even because they have seduced my people, saying, Peace; and there was no peace; and one built up a wall, and, lo, others daubed it with untempered morter:
22 Because with lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life:

 

[Matthias]

The wise know that there is a time to speak and a time to remain silent.

I’ve answered those questions many times already. I call on @Wrangler to be my witness to the fact.

@Wrangler knows the truth of the matter but couldn’t bring himself to witness in my defense @NayborBear. I hope you’ll remember that going forward.

You asked (in post #2235), “So, would you consider yourself as a ‘Pacifist?’ Or, ‘Conscientious Objector?’”

I’ve commented many times, in multiple threads, in various forums, that I’m a pacifist and a conscientious objector.

You can take my word for it, or take the time to search my posts, or ask another member who knows the truth of the matter for confirmation.

If you’re satisfied, proceed with whatever it is that you had in mind to do.

 

[Matthias]

There in denial. Scripture says God loves justice. Among humans, common criminals are brought to justice.

This is in contrast to uncommon criminals, aka Enemies of the State. A righteous people bring justice to their enemies. And there are many stories in Scripture of God doing this through us humans.

Another thing they are in denial of is bringing justice to enemies is aka a just war. They call it all evil, what the good guys and what the bad guys to; a 3rd denial being all that is necessary for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.

@Armour of God @NayborBear

If you’re going to support ”Just War” - it has already been pointed out that the Crusades didn’t meet the criteria - then you need to know its origin. Watch the video. See for yourselves that what the Caner brothers wrote about it in Christian Jihad is true.

 

[Triumph1300]

I noticed over 600 visitors (none members) this morning looking at the Forum.
Just think about what all the war and destruction support on this forum will tell them about Christianity.

 

[Justified]

What are the reasons FOR the Crusades?

Initially it was to take back the “Holy Land,” but then they quickly and increasingly became about gathering wealth for those funding them, which is why Christians and Jews ended up being killed as well.

Appeal to Strawman. 1st, you deny Scripture, then you over qualify it shown by adding ‘on a Tuesday’. There is not a single command in Scripture for followers of Christ to kill a single enemy on a Tuesday.

No, there is no straw man. Please learn what fallacies are before trying to use them. And I have never used the word “Tuesday” on this site, so I have no idea what you’re talking about. Lol

Getting back to your original claim, there are in fact Scripture verses where God commands us to kill. Start by acknowledging that.

No, there is not a single verse, including by eay of example, that supports believers using violence or killing in the name of Christ. Is there a reason why you have continually ignored all the passges which prove the opposite?

Then you can invoke your other Strawman of ‘context’ and my many personal failings (to understand what applies and doesn’t apply).

The “Straw man of ‘context’”? Lol! Again, first go and learn what a straw man is before using it. And then please, in all seriousness, do yourself a huge favour and read some books on hermeneutics and proper biblical interpretation. As Greg Koukl is fond of saying, “context is king.”

OT passages about God commanding the Israelites to kill their enemies is for them only in those specific places, at those specific times, and for those specific purposes. To apply them to followers of Christ is gross misinterpretation and misuse of Scripture. That it what happens when you fail to understand or ignore context.

This is all the more important when you have continuously ignored clear commands to believers and the example of Christ and the apostles in the NT.

 

[Wrangler]

Initially it was to take back the “Holy Land,”

Oh come on buddy! You can do better than that. You're theory is that for no reason they just decided to do this.

And that you continue with being a but monkey, turning your attention to castigating your fellow brother's in Christ.

 

[Matthias]

… there are in fact Scripture verses where God commands us to kill. Start by acknowledging that.

You haven’t obeyed those alleged commands. The vast majority of Christians haven’t obeyed those alleged commands and never will. Can you acknowledge that?

@Armour of God @NayborBear

 

[Matthias]

“God commands Christians to kill their enemies.” -> the teaching of @Wrangler and his concealed identity church.

”We do not use the weapons of the world.” -> the teaching of Paul and the church of God.

@Armour of God @NayborBear

 

[Matthias]

An experiment.

Close your eyes and have someone read this to you: “God commands us to kill unbelievers.”

Is that coming from a Christian or from a Muslim?

Close your eyes and have someone read this to you: “God commands us to kill Jews?”

Is that coming from a Christian or a Muslim?

Close your eyes and have someone read this to you: “God commands us to kill Christians.”

Is that coming from a Christian or a Muslim?

Close your eyes and have someone read this to you: “God commands us to kill Muslims.”

Is that coming from a Christian or a Muslim?

Close your eyes and have someone to read this to you: “God commands us to kill our enemies.”

Is that coming from a Christian or a Muslim?

@Wrangler @Armour of God @NayborBear

 

[NayborBear]

I’ve commented many times, in multiple threads, in various forums, that I’m a pacifist and a conscientious objector.

You can take my word for it, or take the time to search my posts, or ask another member who knows the truth of the matter for confirmation.

As I "generally" only "read the mail?" Meaning reading the "latest headlines (posts, or responses to)" on the right side of the page (least that's how it displays on this computer), and "usually" don't remain "signed into" this forum for very long, as I find, and/or have discovered that there are many (how can I say) "dangerous habit forming activities" that, if not "CAREFULLY monitored and regulated by each user?" CAN, and so oft times DOES place one on that "downhill slippery slope" towards "addiction" and in oh so many cases these days? "IDOLATRY!"

This can also be said about those "Professing Inerrancy!" And I have heard this from more than one "source" in "forums such as this, as well as from "churchianitists!"
I guess I should explain what I have "gathered" what Inerrancy means to me!
Inerrancy is!, IMHO, the "hardened core (stiffneckedness)" BELIEF, that Jesus Christ of Nazareth, as well as God the Father, YEA!, even ANY/ALL of the Kingdom of GOD, or Kingdom of Light? DOESN'T "SPEAK ANYWHERE" to ANYONE, EXCEPT, in the pages of their "canonized" Bibles'! Which?..........Gives MUCH credibility to THIS!"
"A god WHO is ALL love, ALL grace, ALL mercy, NO sovereignty, NO JUSTICE, NO holiness, and NO WRATH?"....... "IS an IDOL!"

And, as happens to be the case from time to time? This "APPLICATION of Justice and Wrath?"
BECOMES PHYSICAL!
Hebrews 13:2

Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.

And? There are SOME of us that have "learned?" and SOME are "BEING LEARNED and well as Being LEARNT!"
That? In the case where Elijah showed Elisha "a/the" (some) of the "Heavenly Host?"
The (how can I say) "cognizance" as well as an "inhabitation" of, which is more like a/the coming and going "betweenst one's ears "
Which comes with MUCH "TRUSTING YET?" "VERIFYING!" (sounds easy...don't it?)
1 John 4

Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. ...

A "further clarification" of "spirits" I think is in order here! You may WELL think of it, like "THOUGHTS, IDEAS, INSIGHTS" that cause one to say. or do stuffs!

Causes SOME, already, and in days TO come? Being "NOT SO UNAWARES" any longer! (wakes up the "sleepers" in one's heart, mind spirit, soul) (Remembering that Jesus Christ of Nazareth, as WELL as HE who SENT Him, will NEVER LEAVE.....NOR forsake thee!.......But? (how can I say) DO "sleep" in one awaiting for one to do THIS!
"Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.")

And?
I thank you for clarification of your position concerning "Fisti-Cuffs!"

Now? Back to your regularly scheduled programming!

 

[Matthias]

I thank you for clarification of your position …

You’re welcome.

***

 

[Matthias]

“In everything do to others as you would have them do to you.” - Jesus. (Matthew 7:12)

What do you want to do to your enemies @Wrangler? You want to kill them.

Why do you want to kill them? Because they want to kill you? No. (Some of them want to kill you and some of them don’t.) Because you want them to kill you? I don’t think so. (But maybe you do.) Why then? Because you are under the mistaken impression that God has commanded you to kill them.

The situation: You want to kill your enemies - men, women, children - even their pets and livestock. You truly believe that God has commanded you to do it - you need to kill your enemies. But you haven’t killed your enemies, and you can’t kill your enemies.

You’re “armed, ready to kill.” All dressed up and nowhere to go.

There’s no peace in your situation.

@Armour of God @NayborBear

 

[Matthias]

From my X / Twitter “For you” feed -

“Dr. Ben Carson warns Christians, ‘The Bible says you ARE going to be persecuted.’ …”

https://x.com/reallindelltv/status/2057140775390240792?s=61

The Bible also says and provides examples of what Christians should do when we are persecuted. The church prior to Constantine understood the instruction (“We do not use the weapons of the world”) and followed the example.

That changed when Constantine favored Christianity.

@Wrangler @Armour of God @NayborBear

 

[Matthias]

“… we consider it unfortunate that the crusaders never understood two basic truths: Christianity‘s highest satisfactions are not guaranteed by possession of special places, and the sword is never God’s way to extend Christ’s kingdom.”

(Bruce L. Shelley, “How Could Christians Do This?”)

How Could Christians Do This? | Christian History Magazine

Christian History Institute (CHI) provides church history resources and self-study material and publishes the quarterly Christian History Magazine. Our aim is to make Christian history enjoyable and applicable to the widest possible audience.

christianhistoryinstitute.org

@Wrangler @Armour of God @NayborBear

What‘s done is done; there’s no changing that. But what the crusaders never understood, we can and should understand. To call for a renewal of the Crusades in the modern era of Christian history would be to ignore the lessons learned from the catastrophic failure of the Crusades.

 

[Matthias]

Defenders of the Crusades / crusaders are sending the wrong message to the world with this meme.

The invitation to send unbelievers is this: Become a Christian because you love the Christ, not because you fear Christianity.

@Wrangler @Armour of God @NayborBear

 

[Matthias]

Again, the defenders of the Crusades / crusaders are sending the wrong message to the unsaved with this meme. That is not what the Christ commissioned his followers to do.



This sends the right message to the unsaved. This is what the Christ commissioned his followers to do.

@Wrangler @Armour of God @NayborBear

 

[Matthias]

Who is drawing the sword? Who is about to be killed?*

The apostles didn’t kill for the faith; nor did they kill for Caesar. The apostles died for the faith; they were killed by Caesar. The church for three hundred years followed their example.

* The one drawing the sword is a non-Christian. The one about to be killed is a Christian; the Christian who wrote, “We do not use the weapons of the world.”

They Died for This: The Shocking Deaths of the Apostles and Why It Matters Today - Sound Of Heaven

When people search “how did the apostles die,” they’re usually looking for a quick list—a few bullet points and a cause of death. But this story is so much

soh.church

As followers of Jesus our duty is to follow the example set by the apostles, not the example set by the crusaders.

Following the example set by the apostles may or may not result in our being slain with the sword of the unbeliever. Following the example set by the apostles will, however, result in some unbelievers coming to Jesus.

Dead unbelievers aren’t made disciples of Jesus. Dead unbelievers are dead enemies of Jesus.

@Wrangler @Armour of God @NayborBear

 

[NayborBear]

There’s no peace in your situation.

Ezekiel 13:
10 Because, even because they have seduced my people, saying, Peace; and there was no peace; and one built up a wall, and, lo, others daubed it with untempered morter: