Many Say ‘Just Believe’… But What Did Jesus Actually Teach?

[mailmandan]

eph 2 refers to the general redemption when Christ quickend or brought us to life in grace, not our personal salvation!

To have eternal salvation we must abide in Christ and bear fruit (Lk 3:9 Jn 15:1-6) and endure to the end (mt 10:22 rev 2:10) and be judged faithful then we enter into eternal salvation!

thks

We have been saved (from the PENALTY of sin) through faith (justification) and believers await the day they will be saved from the PRESENCE of sin (glorification). Its not uncommon for works-salvationists to confuse these two tenses of salvation.

Abiding in Christ, bearing fruit and enduring to the end confirms we really have been born again and are justified. (Matthew 13:23; John 15:5; Romans 8:30; 1 John 4:13-15)

Now if Revelation 2:10 teaches that we must be "faithful enough" (in addition) to placing our faith in Jesus Christ for salvation then just "how faithful" would you have to be? Where do you draw the line in the sand and say that you were "faithful enough" so now the Lord will be able to save you? That is vague and could include any number of good works, which results in "works righteousness."

I see Revelation 2:10 as an encouraging statement from the Lord to Christians at the church of Smyrna who were being persecuted, even to the point of death. I don't see Jesus telling these Christians that if they are not "faithful enough" (in addition) to having faith in Him for salvation that they will not receive eternal life. That would be salvation by works! I do see Jesus telling them that they will receive the crown of life after death, be faithful, hang in there!

In the very next verse, Jesus said - "He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death." 1 John 5:4, we read - "For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world--our faith. ONLY (genuine) BELIEVERS are saved, overcome, and are faithful unto death (Ephesians 2:8; 1 Peter 1:9). Make believers/unbelievers are not saved, do not overcome and are unfaithful unto death.

 

[amigo de christo]

We have been saved (from the PENALTY of sin) through faith (justification) and believers await the day they will be saved from the PRESENCE of sin (glorification). Its not uncommon for works-salvationists to confuse these two tenses of salvation.

Abiding in Christ, bearing fruit and enduring to the end confirms we really have been born again and are justified. (Matthew 13:23; John 15:5; Romans 8:30; 1 John 4:13-15)

Now if Revelation 2:10 teaches that we must be "faithful enough" (in addition) to placing our faith in Jesus Christ for salvation then just "how faithful" would you have to be? Where do you draw the line in the sand and say that you were "faithful enough" so now the Lord will be able to save you? That is vague and could include any number of good works, which results in "works righteousness."

I see Revelation 2:10 as an encouraging statement from the Lord to Christians at the church of Smyrna who were being persecuted, even to the point of death. I don't see Jesus telling these Christians that if they are not "faithful enough" (in addition) to having faith in Him for salvation that they will not receive eternal life. That would be salvation by works! I do see Jesus telling them that they will receive the crown of life after death, be faithful, hang in there!

In the very next verse, Jesus said - "He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death." 1 John 5:4, we read - "For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world--our faith. ONLY (genuine) BELIEVERS are saved, overcome, and are faithful unto death (Ephesians 2:8; 1 Peter 1:9). Make believers/unbelievers are not saved, do not overcome and are unfaithful unto death.

wanna hear a reminder from JESUS in the gospel of john
and then a reminder from john in his first letter .
JESUS , HE who recieves His testimony sets to his seal that GOD IS TRUE .
John , He who recieves NOT the testimony that GOD gave of the SON calls GOD a LIAR .
PRETTY simple if ya ask me . That whore bait known as love and interfaith interreligous dialgoue
CALLS GOD A LIAR . trying to make believe like all religoins be serving the same GOD a true christan does .
OH NO THEY DONT . THEY CALL GOD A LIAR
the SHEEP CALL GOD TRUE cause they RECEIVE HIS TESTIMONY ABOUT CHRIST JESUS . so much for harlot love folks . she is a liar

 

[Davy]

Well instead of judging by you ropinion. Show me where I erred. in context of the passage. break it down like I did

John told you who these antichrists are. they DENY THE FATHER

22 Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. 23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

my friend. Just stick with what John said.. Your all over th eplace. and trying to insert your idea of who these people are in order to maintain your legalistic belief

Again, John told us who they are. I do not have to go to mathew. just read what John said.

22 Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. 23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

An Antichrist deny's jesus. He deny's the Father and the Son, hence he does not have the father or the son. its there in black and white. Inspired by God. read it. take it for what it says.

It is impossible to get through to you; those "five foolish virgins" are not antichrists. Nor are those of Matthew 7 that Jesus will turn away.

Man's FALSE HYPER-GRACE THEORIES is what has taught you that any believer that 'falls away' is an antichrist, which is NOT BIBLICAL.

 

[Davy]

You may deny the Gospels irrevocable covenant as you like. Say,no,as you did there.

The Gospel does not require mortal consent to affirm its eternal truth. God created it perfect and it shall remain so forever.

You folks on MAN'S FALSE HYPER-GRACE THEORIES, keep adding your names at the bottom of each other's posts so we know who you are. We got 3 followers of that theory from men's doctrines here on this thread already.

 

[Marvelloustime]

wanna hear a reminder from JESUS in the gospel of john
and then a reminder from john in his first letter .
JESUS , HE who recieves His testimony sets to his seal that GOD IS TRUE .
John , He who recieves NOT the testimony that GOD gave of the SON calls GOD a LIAR .
PRETTY simple if ya ask me . That whore bait known as love and interfaith interreligous dialgoue
CALLS GOD A LIAR . trying to make believe like all religoins be serving the same GOD a true christan does .
OH NO THEY DONT . THEY CALL GOD A LIAR
the SHEEP CALL GOD TRUE cause they RECEIVE HIS TESTIMONY ABOUT CHRIST JESUS . so much for harlot love folks . she is a liar

@amigo de christo

 

[Gray_Joy]

You folks on MAN'S FALSE HYPER-GRACE THEORIES, keep adding your names at the bottom of each other's posts so we know who you are. We got 3 followers of that theory from men's doctrines here on this thread already.

True. Men's theories that God lied and Jesus died for nothing,and we're not really saved at all because one little slip and we're back to square one as the damned,is committed to being heard.

It is a tragedy.

 

[amigo de christo]

It is impossible to get through to you; those "five foolish virgins" are not antichrists. Nor are those of Matthew 7 that Jesus will turn away.

Man's FALSE HYPER-GRACE THEORIES is what has taught you that any believer that 'falls away' is an antichrist, which is NOT BIBLICAL.

oh my friend on that you are dead wrong .
ALL who fall away , thus DO NOT RETURN and REPENT from their error , OH they be of anti christ all right .
And right now we have many who have falllen away , and many more falling away right into a dissumlation .
SO the TIME TO CORRECT is NOW . many will hate and reject but some will hear and repent .
By the way DAVY , if you know of any who is attached to any that is connected to this ecumeincal interfaith
WARN THEM . . and if you yourself are already heeding men behind this , GET OUT , FLEE THEM .
And the list of those who are connected to this ecuemincal interfaith move of satan and that which is of anti christ
ARE MANY . SO many in fact that me and a hundred man army could not count that number .
OH YES , its the nar realm , its the RCC , its the liberal left , the right and OH YEAH even trump n vance
do guide us into this lie . AND IT aint just america . ITS THE UK its canada and itevery nation under the sun .
WE had b etter all be on gaurd and alert . FOR the HARLOT of all harlots has infiltrated every realm known to man .
OH it is BIBLE TIME in the house .

 

[amigo de christo]

True. Men's theories that God lied and Jesus died for nothing,and we're not really saved at all because one little slip and we're back to square one as the damned,is committed to being heard.

It is a tragedy.

Its not one little slip , its those who continue IN the slip that are going down .
THE KEY is simple . IF ONE DO ERR its called confess and repent .
Cause sin is deadly and to love it is far deadlier indeed .
Hope that helps gray joy .
And yes , of course GOD does not just wait around hoping one slips and then READY to damn .
BUT NOR DOES HE excuse and ov er look sins and errors and rather pander to the flesh and holler judge not correct not .
THAT AINT GOD EITHER .
IF we want to see the REAL examples of TRUE MEN . OPEN BIBLE , YOU SEE HOW JESUS
and then later in acts , and then in the letters HOW the church dealt with sin and error , and who they preached .
A HINT they never went around trying to find common ground for any cause . NO SIR . THEY PREACHED JESUS .
AND when or if one rejected they got the dust of f eet shaken off against them .
OH YEAH . IT BE TIME , IT BE TIME for all TO RETURN to the bible . LETS see and examine
WHO and what WE REALLY been following all along .

 

[amigo de christo]

We have been saved (from the PENALTY of sin) through faith (justification) and believers await the day they will be saved from the PRESENCE of sin (glorification). Its not uncommon for works-salvationists to confuse these two tenses of salvation.

Abiding in Christ, bearing fruit and enduring to the end confirms we really have been born again and are justified. (Matthew 13:23; John 15:5; Romans 8:30; 1 John 4:13-15)

Now if Revelation 2:10 teaches that we must be "faithful enough" (in addition) to placing our faith in Jesus Christ for salvation then just "how faithful" would you have to be? Where do you draw the line in the sand and say that you were "faithful enough" so now the Lord will be able to save you? That is vague and could include any number of good works, which results in "works righteousness."

I see Revelation 2:10 as an encouraging statement from the Lord to Christians at the church of Smyrna who were being persecuted, even to the point of death. I don't see Jesus telling these Christians that if they are not "faithful enough" (in addition) to having faith in Him for salvation that they will not receive eternal life. That would be salvation by works! I do see Jesus telling them that they will receive the crown of life after death, be faithful, hang in there!

In the very next verse, Jesus said - "He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death." 1 John 5:4, we read - "For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world--our faith. ONLY (genuine) BELIEVERS are saved, overcome, and are faithful unto death (Ephesians 2:8; 1 Peter 1:9). Make believers/unbelievers are not saved, do not overcome and are unfaithful unto death.

wanna know who CALLS GOD TRUE and who calls GOD A LIAR .
oh its real simple mail man dan .
JESUS , HE who recieves HIS TESETIMONY has set to his seal that GOD IS TRUE .
John , He who beleives not the testimony that GOD gave of HIS SON , CALLS GOD A LIAR .
And now ya know why i been warning against anti christ euc meincal interfaith . THEY CALL GOD A LIAR .
and THEY say and they cliam that ALL RELIGOINS do serve GOD in different ways .
THE LIE of an antichrist that one is . WHO is a liar , HE who denies JESUS IS THE CHIRST , SON OF GOD
HE is anti christ . SO looks like ecumeincal intefaith JUST CALLED GOD A LIAR and satan whom they serve as TRUE .

 

[Marvelloustime]

wanna know who CALLS GOD TRUE and who calls GOD A LIAR .
oh its real simple mail man dan .
JESUS , HE who recieves HIS TESETIMONY has set to his seal that GOD IS TRUE .
John , He who beleives not the testimony that GOD gave of HIS SON , CALLS GOD A LIAR .
And now ya know why i been warning against anti christ euc meincal interfaith . THEY CALL GOD A LIAR .
and THEY say and they cliam that ALL RELIGOINS do serve GOD in different ways .
THE LIE of an antichrist that one is . WHO is a liar , HE who denies JESUS IS THE CHIRST , SON OF GOD
HE is anti christ . SO looks like ecumeincal intefaith JUST CALLED GOD A LIAR and satan whom they serve as TRUE .

@amigo de christo

 

[Marvelloustime]

oh my friend on that you are dead wrong .
ALL who fall away , thus DO NOT RETURN and REPENT from their error , OH they be of anti christ all right .
And right now we have many who have falllen away , and many more falling away right into a dissumlation .
SO the TIME TO CORRECT is NOW . many will hate and reject but some will hear and repent .
By the way DAVY , if you know of any who is attached to any that is connected to this ecumeincal interfaith
WARN THEM . . and if you yourself are already heeding men behind this , GET OUT , FLEE THEM .
And the list of those who are connected to this ecuemincal interfaith move of satan and that which is of anti christ
ARE MANY . SO many in fact that me and a hundred man army could not count that number .
OH YES , its the nar realm , its the RCC , its the liberal left , the right and OH YEAH even trump n vance
do guide us into this lie . AND IT aint just america . ITS THE UK its canada and itevery nation under the sun .
WE had b etter all be on gaurd and alert . FOR the HARLOT of all harlots has infiltrated every realm known to man .
OH it is BIBLE TIME in the house .

@amigo de christo

 

[Gray_Joy]

Its not one little slip , its those who continue IN the slip that are going down .
THE KEY is simple . IF ONE DO ERR its called confess and repent .
Cause sin is deadly and to love it is far deadlier indeed .
Hope that helps gray joy .
And yes , of course GOD does not just wait around hoping one slips and then READY to damn .
BUT NOR DOES HE excuse and ov er look sins and errors and rather pander to the flesh and holler judge not correct not .
THAT AINT GOD EITHER .
IF we want to see the REAL examples of TRUE MEN . OPEN BIBLE , YOU SEE HOW JESUS
and then later in acts , and then in the letters HOW the church dealt with sin and error , and who they preached .
A HINT they never went around trying to find common ground for any cause . NO SIR . THEY PREACHED JESUS .
AND when or if one rejected they got the dust of f eet shaken off against them .
OH YEAH . IT BE TIME , IT BE TIME for all TO RETURN to the bible . LETS see and examine
WHO and what WE REALLY been following all along .

Thank you. I'm aware of the teaching that pertains to confessing our sin.

The doctrine I'm referring to insist "the idea" of eternal salvation, being eternally irrevocably sealed by holy spirit, is a license to sin with impunity. And still remain saved.

It is a not so subtle effort to deny the Gospel by perverting its tenets so it is not to be believed.

 

[Davy]

True. Men's theories that God lied and Jesus died for nothing,and we're not really saved at all because one little slip and we're back to square one as the damned,is committed to being heard.

It is a tragedy.

Nah, that's extremism. Haven't you Hyper-Grace folks had parents that raised you?

When you messed up, what did your parents do to correct you? Throw you out in the street and disown you? That's how silly your comparison is, and is childishness.

 

[Gray_Joy]

faith working thru Love is not faith alone!

faith producing good works is not faith alone!

thks

I like your name. You might consider that faith is the vessel in which is contained hope,charity,and love.

Therefore,faith is not actually alone but rather is al-one through Christ.

 

[Gray_Joy]

Nah, that's extremism. Haven't you Hyper-Grace folks had parents that raised you?

When you messed up, what did your parents do to correct you? Throw you out in the street and disown you? That's how silly your comparison is, and is childishness.

Now you're getting it
But you just don't see it. That narrative you just posited describes your ideology entirely.

Beautifully done Lord,beautifully done.

 

[Davy]

oh my friend on that you are dead wrong .
ALL who fall away , thus DO NOT RETURN and REPENT from their error , OH they be of anti christ all right .

No, you have been taught to wrongly interpret Apostle Paul's idea of 'falling away' in 2 Thess.2.

Paul associated the falling away of 2 Thess.2:3 with the event of 2 Thess.2:4, so what is that 4th verse about? It's about the DECEPTION of the coming false-Messiah playing God in a stone temple in Jerusalem. That... is what Paul's falling away is about. And Paul even calls it the "strong delusion" later in that 2 Thessalonians 2 Chapter.

But MEN'S FALSE DOCTRINE instead treats Paul's falling away idea like a believer who no longer attends Church, not associating with those in Christ, no longer seeking to follow Lord Jesus, and thus the default is to go to the devil. That is not... Apostle Paul's meaning in 2 Thess.2. Paul's meaning there is about FALLING AWAY INTO DECEPTION BY BEING FOOLED INTO WORSHIPING ANOTHER IN PLACE OF JESUS CHRIST.

Those involved in Paul's falling away idea of 2 Thess.2 FULLY INTEND TO WORSHIP CHRIST JESUS AND FOLLOW HIM. But they instead heed MEN'S DOCTRINES and thus are unaware that a false-Messiah is coming first to play Lord Jesus, and that is the "strong delusion" God is sending upon those who fall away into that deception.

 

[Davy]

Now you're getting it
But you just don't see it. That narrative you just posited describes your ideology entirely.

Beautifully done Lord,beautifully done.

And yet another... childish answer by you. You are already in Satan's hand having been deceived by the doctrines of men you listen to, and you don't even know it. Repent, and study your Bible and not what men say.

 

[Gray_Joy]

And yet another... childish answer by you. You are already in Satan's hand having been deceived by the doctrines of men you listen to, and you don't even know it. Repent, and study your Bible and not what men say.

I'm pretty sure what you just said about me is a violation of the rules here.

You are a warning from God.
Thank you Jesus.

 

[Davy]

Here is what Apostle Paul actually taught as written in that 2 Thessalonians 2 Chapter, and it ain't about Church attendance or going back to a life of sin...

2 Thess 2:1-12
2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto Him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Men's doctrines today separate the above two verses when they actually are meant to go together. Even in verse 3 above Paul associates that "falling away" with that "man of sin" being revealed. Then in the 4th verse Paul explains exactly what that "man of sin" is going to do in a traditional stone temple in Jerusalem at the end of this world, playing God, which means playing Jesus Christ.

Lord Jesus Himself warned the Church about this in His Olivet discourse of Matthew 24 and Mark 13. So what's going on in those deceived Churches; they got short memories or something to so soon forget Christ's Own warning about this coming pseudo-Christ? (See Matthew 24:23-26)

5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

Paul is not... speaking of The Holy Spirit in the above verses either. That's a false doctrine of men that the Pre-trib Rapture school started. Paul is pointing to Archangel Michael who will boot Satan and his angels down to earth at the end of this world after the Revelation 12:7 war in Heaven happens.

8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of His mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of His coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

When Satan is booted down to this earth by Archangel Michael, that is when this "man of sin" will be "revealed', showing up in Jerusalem playing Christ. And that is when that false one will work that "... all power and signs and lying wonders" to deceive the whole world, except Christ's elect. Those are the same great signs and wonders that Lord Jesus warned us about involving that coming false-Christ per His Olivet discourse.

Falling away from going to Church?@!$%^??? No way, it is about falling away from Jesus by being DECEIVED to worship the "another Jesus" in Christ's place! Oh, maybe you folks never read Paul's warning of 2 Corinthians 11 where he speaks of the "another Jesus" (KJV)?

10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
KJV

See that 11th verse above? Paul's falling away in that 2 Thess.2 Chapter isn't about falling away from going to Church and back to a life of sin. It is about falling away into DECEPTION TO THE ANOTHER JESUS, THE COMING FALSE-MESSIAH THAT COMES FIRST.

2 Cor 11:1-4
11 Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me.
2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one Husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
KJV

If you guys cannot grasp what Apostle Paul is warning us about in the above, then maybe I don't belong here, for only those who remain in Jesus Christ will heed the above warnings by Apostle Paul about falling away to the coming false-Messiah.

 

[amigo de christo]

No, you have been taught to wrongly interpret Apostle Paul's idea of 'falling away' in 2 Thess.2.

Paul associated the falling away of 2 Thess.2:3 with the event of 2 Thess.2:4, so what is that 4th verse about? It's about the DECEPTION of the coming false-Messiah playing God in a stone temple in Jerusalem. That... is what Paul's falling away is about. And Paul even calls it the "strong delusion" later in that 2 Thessalonians 2 Chapter.

But MEN'S FALSE DOCTRINE instead treats Paul's falling away idea like a believer who no longer attends Church, not associating with those in Christ, no longer seeking to follow Lord Jesus, and thus the default is to go to the devil. That is not... Apostle Paul's meaning in 2 Thess.2. Paul's meaning there is about FALLING AWAY INTO DECEPTION BY BEING FOOLED INTO WORSHIPING ANOTHER IN PLACE OF JESUS CHRIST.

Those involved in Paul's falling away idea of 2 Thess.2 FULLY INTEND TO WORSHIP CHRIST JESUS AND FOLLOW HIM. But they instead heed MEN'S DOCTRINES and thus are unaware that a false-Messiah is coming first to play Lord Jesus, and that is the "strong delusion" God is sending upon those who fall away into that deception.

you do realize the universal lie to merge all religoins , OH ITS BEGAN . and they believe
its the way to PEACE of this world .
So lets steer far and wide from that all inclusive ecumeinal lie of interfaith . The lie
by which to merge all religoins and christendome has come . And more and more even in wool are now
buying into it . So what you gotta say about that .