Both Pretribbers and Preterists are clearly wrong that great tribulation begins with the DOTL.

[Marilyn C]

Nonsense. Is there some reason why you didn't bother specifically addressing even one thing I said? I specifically address every point you make. You specifically address none of mine. Is that how you think discussions on this forum are supposed to be?


The Catholic Church is nothing, but the church/body of Christ, consisting of those who have been made a new creation in Christ, is referred to as the spiritual Israel of God in scripture. Which is a separate entity from the physical nation of Israel. It does not replace the physical nation.

Galatians 6:15 Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is the new creation. 16 Peace and mercy to all who follow this rule—to the Israel of God.


Nonsense. This is not how to discover the truth of scripture, Marilyn. What I believe has been believed by many Christians from the beginning of the New Testament church. Just read up on what the early church fathers wrote and you will see that for yourself.


You are sadly mistaken.

2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.


What is your point here?

I did address your questions. read again.

 

[David in NJ]

Yes, for Israel.

For your Maker is your HUSBAND, the Lord of hosts is His name; and your redeemer is the Holy One of Israel; He is called the God of the whole earth. For the Lord has called you like a woman forsaken and grieved in spirit, like a youthful wife when you were refused,` says your God.` (Isa. 54: 5 & 6)

`I will betroth you to me for ever; Yes, I will betroth you to me in righteousness and justice, in loving kindness and mercy; I will betroth you to me in faithfulness, and you shall know the Lord.` (Hos. 2: 19 & 20)

`I will betroth you to me for ever; Yes, I will betroth you to me in righteousness and justice, in loving kindness and mercy; I will betroth you to me in faithfulness, and you shall know the Lord.`

And the Same LORD came down from Above and performed this Very Act of Love and Betrothal upon us who say to Him = "I DO"

 

[amigo de christo]

Yes, for Israel.

For your Maker is your HUSBAND, the Lord of hosts is His name; and your redeemer is the Holy One of Israel; He is called the God of the whole earth. For the Lord has called you like a woman forsaken and grieved in spirit, like a youthful wife when you were refused,` says your God.` (Isa. 54: 5 & 6)

`I will betroth you to me for ever; Yes, I will betroth you to me in righteousness and justice, in loving kindness and mercy; I will betroth you to me in faithfulness, and you shall know the Lord.` (Hos. 2: 19 & 20)

verily verily your first line is TRUTH . though you cannot see the TRUTH in this .
FOR ye well wrote YES for ISRAEL
but cannot see JUST WHO IS ISRAEL . that which is b orn of the flesh is flesh
but that which is born of SPIRIT IS SPIRIT .
YE must be born again . And all who BELIEVE ON JESUS are BORN OF GOD .
Just as the natural which was patterend after the HEAVENLY
TILL the TIME HE would come who both torah , law , prophets , abraham and the pages of the scriptures
FORETOLD .
HE would replace earthen WITH HEAVENLY . NOT even all of israel BE OF THIS ISRAEL
this HEAVENLY JERUSALEM , THIS HEAVENLY ZION
wherein the temple be GOD AND THE LAMB and each believer be a stone within it planted
BY GOD with all faith IN HIS SON CHRIST JESUS .
YE must flee the earthen . And may all POINT to the KING of the TRUE . KING JESUS . seated at the RIGHT hand OF THE FATHER .

 

[David in NJ]

Yes, for Israel.

For your Maker is your HUSBAND, the Lord of hosts is His name; and your redeemer is the Holy One of Israel; He is called the God of the whole earth. For the Lord has called you like a woman forsaken and grieved in spirit, like a youthful wife when you were refused,` says your God.` (Isa. 54: 5 & 6)

`I will betroth you to me for ever; Yes, I will betroth you to me in righteousness and justice, in loving kindness and mercy; I will betroth you to me in faithfulness, and you shall know the Lord.` (Hos. 2: 19 & 20)

Post 462 UPdated

 

[amigo de christo]

`I will betroth you to me for ever; Yes, I will betroth you to me in righteousness and justice, in loving kindness and mercy; I will betroth you to me in faithfulness, and you shall know the Lord.`

And the Same LORD came down from Above and performed this Very Act of Love and Betrothal upon us who say to Him = "I DO"

the question that begs to be asked
IS
WHO IS THIS ISRAEL that even the prophets would point too , that even AMOS would speak
of when talking about The rebuilding of the temple . THAT JAMES quoated i might add .
MANY cannot see the HEAVENLY HAS INDEED REPLACED that which was but temporary TILL THE TIME
came OF THE VERY PROMISE OF GOD that HIS SON would come and fullfill all things written of HIM .

 

[David in NJ]

the question that begs to be asked
IS
WHO IS THIS ISRAEL that even the prophets would point too , that even AMOS would speak
of when talking about The rebuilding of the temple . THAT JAMES quoated i might add .
MANY cannot see the HEAVENLY HAS INDEED REPLACED that which was but temporary TILL THE TIME
came OF THE VERY PROMISE OF GOD that HIS SON would come and fullfill all things written of HIM .

Good Night Everyone

@amigo de christo @Spiritual Israelite @ewq1938 @Marilyn C

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

A bride is female.

A new man is male, but that doesn't keep you from understanding that the new man represents the church/body of Christ. This argument simply is completely invalid and you need to stop trying to use it.

We, the BODY, the New Man, are neither male nor female, but have both characteristics, but not the sexual parts which are only for earth.

You keep referring to an exhortation as the basis of your doctrine.

Did you not see what I showed you in my previous post? ALL scripture is the basis of my doctrine and should be yours, too!

2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for [a]instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

First mention - `Then I. ohn, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared AS a bride adorned for her husband.....having the glory of God. `(Rev. 21: 2 & 11)

So, you decide to just ignore Revelation 21:9-10 then? Revelation 21:2 says "as a bride" because it's not talking about a literal human female bride. The church is the figurative bride of Christ.

Only the Old Testament Saints were promised the city. (Heb. 11: 16 `But now they desire a better, that is, a heavenly country. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for THEM.`

Marilyn, you need to take ALL of scripture into account to form your doctrine. New Testament saints, including Gentile believers, are promised the city as well. Have you never read this...

Ephesians 3:1 For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for you Gentiles— 2 if indeed you have heard of the [a]dispensation of the grace of God which was given to me for you, 3 how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly written already, 4 by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ), 5 which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets: 6 that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel,

 

[amigo de christo]

`I will betroth you to me for ever; Yes, I will betroth you to me in righteousness and justice, in loving kindness and mercy; I will betroth you to me in faithfulness, and you shall know the Lord.`

And the Same LORD came down from Above and performed this Very Act of Love and Betrothal upon us who say to Him = "I DO"

pual even quoate hosea . AND WHEN HE DO look WHO HE POINTS too .
I WILL cALL them my people which were NOT my people .
Many cannot see that torah points TO CHRIST and that all this other was but a shadow buT THE BODY bE OF CHRIST .
even the very sabbath itself was but a shadow . As HE who Was before all things were created and by him were all
things created that were created , ONCE CRIED , COME YE UNTO ME
all who do labor and are weary and YE shall FIND REST FOR YOUR SOULS
as manna was given to the children and they all died in time
THIS SAME ONE would come to offer UP THE TRUE BREAD OF HEAVEN by which if a man does eat HE SHALL NEVER DIE .
THEY cannot see david . THEY do not realize . THIS IS ALL about THE CHRIST OF GOD .
and HE who honors HIM , HONORS GOD .

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I did address your questions. read again.

You absolutely did not. Not specifically at all. All you did was share some of your beliefs without specifically addressing anything that I said.

 

[PeterAndroz]

virgins and not defiled by women is SYMBOLIC

Your Mission, should you accept it, is to find out what the symbolism speaks of in actual Truth.

Symbolism is used by those who refuse to accept the literal readings of text

 

[Marilyn C]

A new man is male, but that doesn't keep you from understanding that the new man represents the church/body of Christ. This argument simply is completely invalid and you need to stop trying to use it.


Did you not see what I showed you in my previous post? ALL scripture is the basis of my doctrine and should be yours, too!

2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for [a]instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.


So, you decide to just ignore Revelation 21:9-10 then? Revelation 21:2 says "as a bride" because it's not talking about a literal human female bride. The church is the figurative bride of Christ.


Marilyn, you need to take ALL of scripture into account to form your doctrine. New Testament saints, including Gentile believers, are promised the city as well. Have you never read this...

Ephesians 3:1 For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for you Gentiles— 2 if indeed you have heard of the [a]dispensation of the grace of God which was given to me for you, 3 how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly written already, 4 by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ), 5 which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets: 6 that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel,

The New Man has both male and female characteristics as there is no male or female in the Body of Christ.

Yes, ALL scripture - what about these scriptures?

For your Maker is your HUSBAND, the Lord of hosts is His name; and your redeemer is the Holy One of Israel; He is called the God of the whole earth. For the Lord has called you like a woman forsaken and grieved in spirit, like a youthful wife when you were refused,` says your God.` (Isa. 54: 5 & 6)

`I will betroth you to me for ever; Yes, I will betroth you to me in righteousness and justice, in loving kindness and mercy; I will betroth you to me in faithfulness, and you shall know the Lord.` (Hos. 2: 19 & 20)

Rev. 21 is about the city is as I showed the inheritance of the Old Testament Saints. Heb. 11: 16.

And the `promise?` `That we might receive the PROMISE of the Spirit through faith. ` (Gal. 3: 15)

The believers in the Body of Christ have the inheritance of ruling with the Lord on His own throne in the highest.

`To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with me on my throne...` (Rev. 3: 21)

 

[Marvelloustime]

pual even quoate hosea . AND WHEN HE DO look WHO HE POINTS too .
I WILL cALL them my people which were NOT my people .
Many cannot see that torah points TO CHRIST and that all this other was but a shadow buT THE BODY bE OF CHRIST .
even the very sabbath itself was but a shadow . As HE who Was before all things were created and by him were all
things created that were created , ONCE CRIED , COME YE UNTO ME
all who do labor and are weary and YE shall FIND REST FOR YOUR SOULS
as manna was given to the children and they all died in time
THIS SAME ONE would come to offer UP THE TRUE BREAD OF HEAVEN by which if a man does eat HE SHALL NEVER DIE .
THEY cannot see david . THEY do not realize . THIS IS ALL about THE CHRIST OF GOD .
and HE who honors HIM , HONORS GOD .

@amigo de christo

 

[Marvelloustime]

verily verily your first line is TRUTH . though you cannot see the TRUTH in this .
FOR ye well wrote YES for ISRAEL
but cannot see JUST WHO IS ISRAEL . that which is b orn of the flesh is flesh
but that which is born of SPIRIT IS SPIRIT .
YE must be born again . And all who BELIEVE ON JESUS are BORN OF GOD .
Just as the natural which was patterend after the HEAVENLY
TILL the TIME HE would come who both torah , law , prophets , abraham and the pages of the scriptures
FORETOLD .
HE would replace earthen WITH HEAVENLY . NOT even all of israel BE OF THIS ISRAEL
this HEAVENLY JERUSALEM , THIS HEAVENLY ZION
wherein the temple be GOD AND THE LAMB and each believer be a stone within it planted
BY GOD with all faith IN HIS SON CHRIST JESUS .
YE must flee the earthen . And may all POINT to the KING of the TRUE . KING JESUS . seated at the RIGHT hand OF THE FATHER .

@amigo de christo

 

[rebuilder 454]

JESUS Said "the Flood swept them away"

Audio Cross Study Comm Greek
Verse (Chapter ▾ Par ▾ Str ▾)
New International Version
and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.

New Living Translation
People didn’t realize what was going to happen until the flood came and swept them all away. That is the way it will be when the Son of Man comes.

English Standard Version
and they were unaware until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.

Berean Standard Bible
And they were oblivious until the flood came and swept them all away. So will it be at the coming of the Son of Man.

Berean Literal Bible
And they did not know until the flood came and took away all. So also will be the coming of the Son of Man.

King James Bible
And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

New King James Version
and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

New American Standard Bible
and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be.

Ok.
Who, in Jesus's "before the flood Noah analogy" is swept away before the trib?

Remember you have omitted the "before the flood" component, and the "half taken" components.
Instead, you are telling me that before the flood, ( pretrib), the entire world dies.

 

[Marvelloustime]

For there are THREE IN HEAVEN , THE FATHER , THE SPIRIT , THE WORD as these are ONE
and there are three that bear witness on earth , THE SPIRIT , WATER and the BLOOD and these three agree IN ONE .

@amigo de christo

 

[rebuilder 454]

@amigo de christo View attachment 85971

Since the ac kills all refusing the mark, yes, your verse points to a pretrib rapture with those ones left behind martyred.
They are martyred. They endured to the end of their lives.

 

[David in NJ]

Symbolism is used by those who refuse to accept the literal readings of text

Good Morning

Based on your statement, the LORD and the Holy Spirit of Truth used symbolism to deceive you???

When the LORD spoke a parable, HE often used symbolism to convey the LITERAL.

And when a great multitude had gathered, and they had come to Him from every city, He spoke by a parable: “A sower went out to sow his seed. And as he sowed, some fell by the wayside; and it was trampled down, and the birds of the air devoured it. Some fell on rock; and as soon as it sprang up, it withered away because it lacked moisture. And some fell among thorns, and the thorns sprang up with it and choked it. But others fell on good ground, sprang up, and yielded a crop a hundredfold.” When He had said these things He cried, “He who has ears to hear, let him hear!”

i FULLY recognize & understand the difference between LITERAL and Symbolic in the Holy Scriptures

Hear is another one from the OT


Daniel spoke, saying, “I saw in my vision by night, and behold, the four winds of heaven were stirring up the Great Sea. 3And four great beasts came up from the sea, each different from the other. 4The first was like a lion, and had eagle’s wings. I watched till its wings were plucked off; and it was lifted up from the earth and made to stand on two feet like a man, and a man’s heart was given to it.

5“And suddenly another beast, a second, like a bear. It was raised up on one side, and had three ribs in its mouth between its teeth. And they said thus to it: ‘Arise, devour much flesh!’

6“After this I looked, and there was another, like a leopard, which had on its back four wings of a bird. The beast also had four heads, and dominion was given to it.

7“After this I saw in the night visions, and behold, a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, exceedingly strong. It had huge iron teeth; it was devouring, breaking in pieces, and trampling the residue with its feet. It was different from all the beasts that were before it, and it had ten horns. 8I was considering the horns, and there was another horn, a little one, coming up among them, before whom three of the first horns were plucked out by the roots. And there, in this horn, were eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking pompous words.


SHALOM in the Symbolism of TRUTH that is only revealed by the SPIRIT of TRUTH

 

[Marvelloustime]

And that which is b orn of flesh is flesh
but that which is b orn of Spirit IS SPIRIT .
WHEN JESUS IS DENIED , GOD HAS BEEN DENIED .
there is nothing in or of the flesh that can save a man .
YE MUST be b orn again . You are correct my friend . And as adam lay upon his side
and from him was b rought forth woman
SO CHRIST TOO , and from him came forth CHURCH , the woman .
I DO see a connection in genesis . a pattern that later would be completed by THE SON .
MY FATHER WORKS and I WORK TOO , i have come to FINISH MY FATHERS WORKS .

@amigo de christo

 

[David in NJ]

Ok.
Who, in Jesus's "before the flood Noah analogy" is swept away before the trib?

Remember you have omitted the "before the flood" component, and the "half taken" components.
Instead, you are telling me that before the flood, ( pretrib), the entire world dies.

Good Morning

Fresh Organic Whole Bean Coffee now being served at 'King David's Ruddy Muddy Coffee Corner'

C U N A BIT

 

[rebuilder 454]

And who is a liar , b ut he who d enies that JESUS IS THE VERY CHRIST MESSIAH SON OF GOD .
HE is anti christ .
Again its not too hard to see who and what is behind this ecumeincal intefaith for world peace n safety .
THAT WHICH BE OF ANTI CHRIST of course , THE MYSTERY of INQUITY of course .
But many in the false religoins , and even worse many within even christendom now run
to this ONE LIE by which IT SHALL UNITE ALL THE FALSE RELIGOINS WHO ALREADY LOVED A LIE
and the decieved in chrsitendom that too love a lie and reject the TRUE JESUS and followed some other jesus created of men .
IT BE A TOTAL DELUSION david . A GREAT and MIGHTY HOUR of all out reprobation has been poured
upon a world , upon even much of christendom .
FOR when HE called they did not answer but remain in their lie and WHEN HE SENT
his own sheep TO EVEN WARN the churches , They cast them OUT along with HIS WORDS as hate speech .
The path this world is now on , IS THE FINAL JUDG MENT OF A GREAT DELUSION
sent unto all who rejected the love of the truth and rather had pleasure in unrighteious and held the TRUTH as a lie .
And its gonna take everyone not in the lambs b ook of life right to THAT ONE LIE THAT SHALL SURELY UNIFY .
But it will be unto their own destruction . SO the time is as it has always been
TIME TO POINT TO JESUS , TIME to count that cost , and time to be prepared to lose all FOR HIS NAME SAKE .
some will hear b ut most will reject and many will betray us unto authorites . ITS COMING david
THE GREATEST HOUR of GREAT TRIBULATION is coming and our betrayer and betrayal is at the door .
FEAR IT NOT . fear not he who does not even have power over his own life
FEAR RATHER HE WHO G IVETH LIFE to all and shall surely POUR out HIS WRATH upon ALL WHO DENIED HIS HOLY SON .

Yes.
By your own declaration of faith you will be left behind.

We watch and are ready.
You do not watch.... and you believe the false christ is coming... and no need to look for Jesus coming.
In fact you mock the wise virgins for going out to meet Him.